@progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh
" I would agree if DBZ were consistent at all. But as it stands, it's worse than DC. "
Roshi destroyed a moon, PL 139+
King Piccolo stated he can easily destroyed whole region ( 1/43 of earths surface), PL under 500
Piccolo destroyed the moon without powering up, PL under 1000
Nappa effortlessly destroyed whole region just with a small gesture of his fingers, PL around 4000
Vegeta (saiyan saga) stated he can destroyed the Earth and he fired that attack, PL 18 000+
Frieza (base form) easily destroyed Planet Vegeta, which is a planet with gravity 10x bigger then earth, which most likely means it is much bigger then the earth, PL 530 000
Goku SSJ (frieza saga) had PL 150 000 000
SP Cell was incomparably more powerful then Goku SSJ (frieza saga) and he stated he can destroy whole solar system.
So, if you want to see consistency you can, but if you want to be hater you can do that to.
Driving episode, you mean when Goku tried to learn how to drive a car? Wasn't that a filler? "
Wasn't it all? Anyway, he and Picklebones had trouble with a bus.
Dude...
I'm not that impressed by the Z-Fighters, at least compared to cosmic superheroes. They're just too arbitrary; they can't even keep their s*** straight for an episode.
DD (Doomday) beating supes in a fight is PIS?!?!?!?!?!
No speed, no flight, no rapid ranged attacks, no technical skills at all, no amazo-senses. Powerset mismatch, even if he is as strong and tough as Clark. I feel the same way about Hulk or Juggernaut vs. Superman. I don't care how strong or tough you think they are, they can't touch him.
No speed ? DD is faster then FLASH (DOS DD). Flight ? who the hell neded that, Sups had to go to him. DD was destryoing the city. Also DD can get around that like in HP DD. Same thing applies for ranged attacks. He was able to hit MM even when he was intangible. They had to trow DD at the end of time to stop him the second time. DD also has NO INTERNAL ORGANS and he does not have pain or fear. You realy don't know much about DD.
@Xan: Sure I do, I just think most of it is post-facto rationalizations to explain why Hulk with bone claws could beat Superman. I don't think most of what you described were consistent with his original showings. Nonetheless I'm not saying Doomsday is a powderpuff, but he's basically Hulk on steroids.
Also you keep saying DD beats Sups. That never happend. Sups killed DD and saved the city = Sups wins. Of course Sups "died" to but still he won the fight. Also keep in mind that Sups never whent all out from the start. Superman was also not as powerfull back then as he is now.
Also you keep saying DD beats Sups. That never happend. Sups killed DD and saved the city = Sups wins.
Well, he got physically pounded into an energy coma because he chose to fight Doomsday up close, which I don't consider plausible but that just reinforces my point of Doomsday's limitations. If Superman didn't give a damn about Metropolis or Earth, he could have fought much more effectively.
Also keep in mind that Sups never whent all out from the start. Superman was also not as powerfull back then as he is now.
Right, I agree with both but I still think it was a powerset mismatch. Adaptivity aside, Doomsday is really limited compared to Superman. Doomsday is basically a tank, a cosmic tank maybe, but still just a tank.
Well, he got physically pounded into an energy coma because he chose to fight Doomsday up close, which I don't consider plausible but that just reinforces my point of Doomsday's limitations. If Superman didn't give a damn about Metropolis or Earth, he could have fought much more effectively.
That is true but that is not bad writhing or PIS. Superman would never let those in the city get killed. You point was that there fight was PIS and it was not. The only thing i can think off is a BFR. Now i remember the movie Superman Doomsday where Superman flyies up with DD and instead of trowing DD in orbit he smaked down in the middle of the city killing lots of people and destroying building all around ... Now this is bad writing and PIS (not saying the movie is cannon).
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k
1. Doomsday is not faster than lash, that's just XD I mean honestly if we're using hyperbole from booster gold now, nice. 2. Superman is in fact weaker than when he fought doomsday before. Plus he was being amped in hunter prey. Back then he could at least move a moon by himself, now he needs a sundip to move a pluto sized planet (smaller than our moon), help from wonder woman and GL to move the moon, blah blah blah. Plus he was being amped in hunter prey. And doomsday is even weaker. 3. Who the hell needs flight? XD i'm sorry but there is no PIS to make gohan go anywhere near doomsday, and even if there was he's still be too slow to do anything to him. And there is no PIS where gohan i going to be hit by a giant protruding bone 4. Did Kal el and Kal L have to throw him to the end of time to stop him? no they beat him to death in like 2 pages. Did superman and the 5 or so other kryptonians have to fly him to the end of time? no they beat him to death on the moon, by crushing his skull. He doesn't need internal organs to bee beaten to death apparently. And it sure as hell doesn't take entropy. 5. If you end up beaten to death (later retconned to put into a coma) hardly see how you "won" the fight especially if doomsday just came back to life.
I think it funny how easily facts and common sense so easily get cased aside in favor of bias. Doomsday can't touch gohan, and it took much less than a planet busting energy attack to kill doomsday. And when he does die he doesn't come back in seconds or minutes it takes months.
Well, he got physically pounded into an energy coma because he chose to fight Doomsday up close, which I don't consider plausible but that just reinforces my point of Doomsday's limitations. If Superman didn't give a damn about Metropolis or Earth, he could have fought much more effectively.
That is true but that is not bad writhing or PIS. Superman would never let those in the city get killed. You point was that there fight was PIS and it was not. The only thing i can think off is a BFR. Now i remember the movie Superman Doomsday where Superman flyies up with DD and instead of trowing DD in orbit he smaked down in the middle of the city killing lots of people and destroying building all around ... Now this is bad writing and PIS (not saying the movie is cannon).
"
I have that movie.... that was horrible, he should have just pushed him out of orbit and be like " good riddance" and then flew back down like nothing happend. Instead of pile driving him into the city. That and the fact it didn't have any of the other heroes helping him like in comics.
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k "
Doomsday went toe-to-toe with Superman and you're clinging to the false hope that SSJ Gohan has the slightest chance. Even Mystic Gohan hasn't a chance. Give it up.
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh "
Goku never showed anywhere near a planet busting attack in his fight with Cell, nor any other fight with that matter. The only attack he has in his arsenal that can destroy a planet is the Genki Dama and that isn't even energy coming from his own body.
Superman has feats far superior to any of the DBZ crew.
Do you honestly believe any of the crap you're spewing?
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k "
Doomsday went toe-to-toe with Superman and you're clinging to the false hope that SSJ Gohan has the slightest chance. Even Mystic Gohan hasn't a chance. Give it up.
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh "
Goku never showed anywhere near a planet busting attack in his fight with Cell, nor any other fight with that matter. The only attack he has in his arsenal that can destroy a planet is the Genki Dama and that isn't even energy coming from his own body. Superman has feats far superior to any of the DBZ crew. Do you honestly believe any of the crap you're spewing? "
The only thing stated that could destroy the earth was the Kamemeha wave, although that was clearly hyperbole on Cell's part. One would think that since enemies from Saiyan Saga on up were planet busters Gohan would be too. Although ABC logic doesn't really work.
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k "
Doomsday went toe-to-toe with Superman and you're clinging to the false hope that SSJ Gohan has the slightest chance. Even Mystic Gohan hasn't a chance. Give it up.
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh "
Goku never showed anywhere near a planet busting attack in his fight with Cell, nor any other fight with that matter. The only attack he has in his arsenal that can destroy a planet is the Genki Dama and that isn't even energy coming from his own body. Superman has feats far superior to any of the DBZ crew. Do you honestly believe any of the crap you're spewing? "
And? Am i suppose to care that he beat superman, because i dont. When superman was actually written to not be a retard he embarrassed doomsday. Doomsday couldn't lay a single hit on him. Superman made him his bitch just by using speed. XD you're nothing mroe than another in a long line of ignorant bias, that i really could care less about.
Right that time when goku used the warp kamehamaha on cell and cell, krillin, vegeta and trunks all stated that it would destroy the planet, that doesn't exist. Not that it matters because ot took less energy than a planet buster to kill doomsday. I'm really not going to waste my time replying to you anymore. I have learned not to get into it with you types. Not energy coming from his own body..lol is i'm sorry is that suppose to be a negative? Oh goku steals energy from people, that makes him what...lame? lol okay Superman can have as many superior idiotic feats as he wants, such as flying into black holes and then getting beaten to near death by punches. Oh trust me i believe every word of what i'm saying. Too bad you're to bias to stop spewing non sense. I find it hilarious that here is always someone like you who tries and compares superman to a dbz character in a thread that has nothing to do with superman. Thats how i know who i should and should not debate with. Don't forget to stroke your superman comics before you go to sleep tonight okay pal?
Where as i, oh yes...doomsday can't touch gohan, true story
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k "
Doomsday went toe-to-toe with Superman and you're clinging to the false hope that SSJ Gohan has the slightest chance. Even Mystic Gohan hasn't a chance. Give it up.
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh "
Goku never showed anywhere near a planet busting attack in his fight with Cell, nor any other fight with that matter. The only attack he has in his arsenal that can destroy a planet is the Genki Dama and that isn't even energy coming from his own body. Superman has feats far superior to any of the DBZ crew. Do you honestly believe any of the crap you're spewing? "
The only thing stated that could destroy the earth was the Kamemeha wave, although that was clearly hyperbole on Cell's part. One would think that since enemies from Saiyan Saga on up were planet busters Gohan would be too. Although ABC logic doesn't really work. "
Right hyperbole. That's right, vegeta, trunks, krillin, cell all stated hyperbole, and then goku teleported instead of firing at the planet because he what exactly? believed hyperbole? Thats why when cell was goig to fire, and all the z fighters, stated he was going to blow up earth with his BIG K, and then Goku flew into the sky risking his own life to draw the blast away from the planet was what? Oh ok. When everyone in dbz uses the same power, KI then how exactly is it abc logic. uh huh.
@Prince CortSether said:
" @Louisiana Bob said:
" Doomsday can't touch gohan, true story "
DBZ must be your crack. Quit whacking off Akira Toriyama. "
" @Louisiana Bob: Take your DBZ bias elsewhere. Gohan hasn't a chance in hell. "
when someone posts a scan of doomsday being killed by energy blast, mention the fact that doomsday is too slow to even touch gohan and you say something like that it makes me laugh at you. It makes me laugh at you, it seems that you're the only bias one here, k "
Doomsday went toe-to-toe with Superman and you're clinging to the false hope that SSJ Gohan has the slightest chance. Even Mystic Gohan hasn't a chance. Give it up.
@Louisiana Bob said:
" @progenitor: Take a note that frieza with a power level of 500,000 one shotted an entire planet with his finger. take note that super saiyan power levels at their weakest, ie, before android saga, before cell, saga, and before buu saga when they're much more powerful are at 150,000,000. a fifth of a planet<whole planet, true story. In fact gohan at super saiyan 1 was more powerful than goku when goku was shoving planet busting level attacks in cells face. Kal L and Kal -el have made short work of doomsday in a single page. And superman who in the same saga is so weak he cant even move a moon with the aid an army of other kryptonians beat doomsday to death. So you doubts...meh "
Goku never showed anywhere near a planet busting attack in his fight with Cell, nor any other fight with that matter. The only attack he has in his arsenal that can destroy a planet is the Genki Dama and that isn't even energy coming from his own body. Superman has feats far superior to any of the DBZ crew. Do you honestly believe any of the crap you're spewing? "
And? Am i suppose to care that he beat superman, because i dont. When superman was actually written to not be a retard he embarrassed doomsday. Doomsday couldn't lay a single hit on him. Superman made him his bitch just by using speed. XD
Moot point since Superman is far superior in speed to Gohan.
you're nothing mroe than another in a long line of ignorant bias, that i really could care less about. Right that time when goku used the warp kamehamaha on cell and cell, krillin, vegeta and trunks all stated that it would destroy the planet, that doesn't exist.
Hyperbole. When any of Goku or any other DBZ fighter destroys the planet with their attacks, you let me know. And I mean destroying a planet with their own power, not setting off a reaction in its core that then destroys the planet.
Not that it matters because ot took less energy than a planet buster to kill doomsday. I'm really not going to waste my time replying to you anymore. I have learned not to get into it with you types. Not energy coming from his own body..lol is i'm sorry is that suppose to be a negative?Oh goku steals energy from people, that makes him what...lame?
Considering it isn't his own power, yes I don't consider that a high end ability, especially since in order to use it the enemy has to be completely stupid and sit there or has to be distracted by someone else in order for him to use it. lol okay Superman can have as many superior idiotic feats as he wants, such as flying into black holes and then getting beaten to near death by punches.
lol okay Goku can have as many idiotic feats as he wants, such as being stronger than DBZ Gods and then getting killed by a lame ass virus
Oh trust me i believe every word of what i'm saying. Too bad you're to bias to stop spewing non sense. I find it hilarious that here is always someone like you who tries and compares superman to a dbz character in a thread that has nothing to do with superman. Thats how i know who i should and should not debate with. Don't forget to stroke your superman comics before you go to sleep tonight okay pal? Where as i, oh yes...doomsday can't touch gohan, true story "
Otaku Convention is that way ------------------------->
@Prince CortSether: Superman was fighting in washinton dc, meaning he was using speeeds mach 10 and under
when goku and his friends suddenly become evil and have a need to destroy planet let me know. Your argument is nothingless than half assed. It's like me saying show me a scan of superman destroying a city full of people with his heat vision. Freiza one shotted planet vegeta, and he set of the core on namek because he was afraid of dying in the blast. As stated by himself and goku. funny how people leave that part out when it's stated 2 seconds after.
Right absorbing energy from people, planets and stars throughout the solar system like he did against frieza = not a high end ability. I could care less what you consider, to be 100% honest.
Superman was almost killed by a virus 3 times, but ok. not to mention a certain green rock. I never will understand the people who try and use that in a debate.
And flag button is right there =) You should stop the pity insults before you get banned. I don't want that, i enjoy shooting down your lame attempt at arguments.
The most power Superman has shown is moving a planet (with GL's help) or moving a 3rd of the planet (with WW, and MM's help). Doomsday and Supes killed each other, putting their power relatively equal after that long battle.
Gohan had enough power to destroy the planet before he even turned 7. His power is amply multiplied when he's 11, and he's exponentially more powerful as a super saiyan......
One Kamehameha should kill DD......
Dragonball Z and DC aren't a good match up.
The DBZ characters have so much power at their disposal because of their chi.
There is no point in arguing with DBZ fans. As far as they are concerned SS1 Gohan is more powerful than Galactus. They have completely internalized that Universes' arbitrary and inconsistent claims, not to mention the largely made up (and also super-inconsistent) power levels in the TV series.
" There is no point in arguing with DBZ fans. As far as they are concerned SS1 Gohan is more powerful than Galactus. They have completely internalized that Universes' arbitrary and inconsistent claims, not to mention the largely made up (and also super-inconsistent) power levels in the TV series. "
I love how you do nothing but go into dbz threads and talk sh!t. It seems to me that you're just a raging dbz hater. Yes because Gohan is too fast to be beaten by doomday and doomsday was in fact killed by much less than gohan is capable of = We think gohan can beat galactus. got to love that logic of yours. And for once instead of going into a dbz thread saying how inconsistent it is in power levels how about you explain how, i'd be happy to shoot down your little arguments. I love making people like you get all upset and mad inside.
I love how you do nothing but go into dbz threads and talk sh!t. It seems to me that you're just a raging dbz hater.
I don't hate DBZ, I hate DBZ fans (actually, anime fans in general). DBZ is a decent Superman-Monkey King pastiche. And the problem with your 'capabilities' is that they're about as reliable as Apocalypse's capabilities.
I love how you do nothing but go into dbz threads and talk sh!t. It seems to me that you're just a raging dbz hater.
I don't hate DBZ, I hate DBZ fans (actually, anime fans in general). DBZ is a decent Superman-Monkey King pastiche. And the problem with your 'capabilities' is that they're about as reliable as Apocalypse's capabilities. "
so what you're saying is you're going to troll, and not explain how dbz is this big inconsistent blah blah blah..like seriously get a life. Hate dbz fans all you like, im sure most of them like myself couldn't care less about people like you. But hey have fun wasting your life trolling and hating fans of anime, because thats a perfect way to not waste your time
Gohan kills him with a super kamehameha the doomdday comes back and can't be hurt by gohan at all. but doomsday without PIS also doesn't hit Gohan but he could theoretically evolve a way to hit him
I agree if we're talking original Doomsday, but supposedly Doomsday is up to Flash-level speeds now. I also don't think Gohan's energy attacks have the power to down Doomsday.
I agree if we're talking original Doomsday, but supposedly Doomsday is up to Flash-level speeds now. I also don't think Gohan's energy attacks have the power to down Doomsday. "
well doomsday doesn't acctually have any feats that prove he's even 1/1,000,00th as fast as flash he tagged booster gold and booster said he was faster.
well friza when not in his final form busted worlds with a single blast and ss1Gohan>>>>>>>>>ss1Goku>>>>>>>>final form freza>>>>>>>>>>regular freiza and cell was once stated to be a solar system buster
and I have never seen anything that proves doomsday can take blasts like that
Doomsday isn't up to flash level speeds. i find it hilarious that someone who keeps talking about hyperbole and inconsistencies keeps bringing up an obvious hyperbole statement from booster gold of all people. Right he moves faster than the flash which is why booster could see doomsday destroy his teammates, brilliant.
Also doomsday still hasn't evolved to fly, and not be beaten to death. And he has been killed more than once by energy blast showing he may nit be able to come back if gohan kills him. not hat it matter because if gohan kills him the first time tat way he wont come back to months later.
well doomsday doesn't acctually have any feats that prove he's even 1/1,000,00th as fast as flash
I agree, I think it's all just hype to cover up the fact that spikey hulk beat Superman
well friza when not in his final form busted worlds with a single blast
The trouble is that the demonstrated feats and math in the TV power levels never makes any sense with what they're supposed to be able to do. This is a problem in comics, too, but it's worse in DB/DBZ.
@Louisiana Bob:
Doomsday isn't up to flash level speeds.
Like I've said in other threads, I think that's a bogus claim, too. But it nonetheless is what HP Doomsday is supposed to be. At best he's Superman level strength and durability, his other powers are more or less explanations for the fact that a Kryptonian should be untouchable by Grey Hulk.
Demonstrated feats Doomsday gets BFR'd by Gohan, but I don't think Gohan could put him down.
@RJMooreII: no it's not what he's supposed to be up to..if he was he would have shown this so called superior flash speed which he never..ever has. So again just stop. Doomsday has been put down by non planet busting energy blast. Which i less than what gohan is capable of..so
Is this current doomsday???If so its a stomp if its original (AKA no super crazy $hit that he picked up from every death) Then Either Gohan Wins or its a draw
" There is no point in arguing with DBZ fans. As far as they are concerned SS1 Gohan is more powerful than Galactus. They have completely internalized that Universes' arbitrary and inconsistent claims, not to mention the largely made up (and also super-inconsistent) power levels in the TV series. "
You are right. There is no point in arguing this based on power levels. You are correct in pointing out the power levels in the DBZ universe do not correspond to DC Universe. The two don't really match. The universes don't treat power the same way. You are correct that the display of powers is super-inconsistent in DBZ. They are also inconsistent in DC, but it is much worse in DB Universe.
What that means is that there isn't really a good way to compare their power levels/strength levels/speed levels/durability levels. Whatever you base your opinion or comparison on it will to a great extent be arbitrary. People can reasonably believe Goku's maximum strength is 10,000 tons or so and estimate Superman's strength in the millions of tons. Other people can reasonably believe Goku's maximum power is incalcuably high and conclude that Superman's real strength levels are not in the millions.
It comes down to opinion. The DC people want the DBZ people to prove that the DBZ opinion has to be right. The DBZ people won't even listen to the DC people. So, this is never going to be resolved.
Now, that doesn't mean DBZ vs. DC can't be interesting-- especially when you have characters with unique qualities. Doomsday is one of them. Gohan's power increase difference is another. If we focus on these unique characteristics the debate can still be interesting.
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