1.I really can't believe that,Hawkeye and him are at least on the same level. 2.True. 3.How so?He dosen't have Serum..all he has is an arm...an arm. 4.Clint can one shot him with a weapon..
"1.I really can't believe that,Hawkeye and him are at least on the same level.2.True.3.How so?He dosen't have Serum..all he has is an arm...an arm.4.Clint can one shot him with a weapon.."
1.No they aren't.Bucky has a better track record.Alot better fighting skill feats than Hawkeye.
2.Bucky is an expert marksman and he's really good with the sheild.People with superhuman speed haven't been able to dodge the shield and I rarely see him miss..in fact I don't believe I ever saw him miss.(I could be mistaken).
3.He doesn't need the serum he's still stronger,faster,more agile,and more durable than Clint and he's wearing armor.
4.Clint has nothing he can one-shot Bucky with and the odds of him actually getting a fatal attack off are extremely slim.
I can't say I've been particularly impressed by Clint's accomplishments as Ronin. His best feat was against the Dark Avengers, but he did have luck by his side on that occasion.
On the other hand, Bucky has taken down Crossbones (on arguably two occasions - and in one of them he was fighting the entire Serpent squad, as well), the Black Widow, the Grand Director, and would have won against Batroc (the second time they fought), had it not been for the Man with no Face.
Interestingly enough, the two of them fought very briefly, in a training session of shorts, after Buck first became Captain America.
" I can't say I've been particularly impressed by Clint's accomplishments as Ronin. His best feat was against the Dark Avengers, but he did have luck by his side on that occasion.
On the other hand, Bucky has taken down Crossbones (on arguably two occasions - and in one of them he was fighting the entire Serpent squad, as well), the Black Widow, the Grand Director, and would have won against Batroc (the second time they fought), had it not been for the Man with no Face.
Interestingly enough, the two of them fought very briefly, in a training session of shorts, after Buck first became Captain America. "
" I can't say I've been particularly impressed by Clint's accomplishments as Ronin. His best feat was against the Dark Avengers, but he did have luck by his side on that occasion.
On the other hand, Bucky has taken down Crossbones (on arguably two occasions - and in one of them he was fighting the entire Serpent squad, as well), the Black Widow, the Grand Director, and would have won against Batroc (the second time they fought), had it not been for the Man with no Face.
Interestingly enough, the two of them fought very briefly, in a training session of shorts, after Buck first became Captain America. "
I wouldn't call it a slaughterhouse, but Bucky would definitely win. "
Clint and Bucky aren't in the same league. "
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shield He has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher
I wouldn't call it a slaughterhouse, but Bucky would definitely win. "
Clint and Bucky aren't in the same league. "
Don't get me wrong, I know Bucky would beat Clint. I just never saw their skill levels as being SO far apart that their fight would be a 'slaughterhouse' (a term that's usually only broken out in threads that have street levelers facing gods, ect).
I wouldn't call it a slaughterhouse, but Bucky would definitely win. "
Clint and Bucky aren't in the same league. "
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shieldHe has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher "
Clint was never really Cap. Merely wearing the uniform does not mean someone is Captain America. He just tested the shield for one issue.
Clint doesn't even have any feats as Ronin.Or really as Hawkeye as far as actual fighting skill.Most of his feats are attributed to aim and trick arrows.His best feats as Ronin is Bucky's light work.It's stuff Bucky does in one panel taking it easy.
" Clint doesn't even have any feats as Ronin.Or really as Hawkeye as far as actual fighting skill.Most of his feats are attributed to aim and trick arrows.His best feats as Ronin is Bucky's light work.It's stuff Bucky does in one panel taking it easy. "
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shieldHe has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher "
You're just saying stuff.He's done nothing as Ronin.He has maybe 3 fighting skill feats the entire time he's been Ronin..and they are all mediocre.He has better fighting skill feats as Hawkeye.
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shieldHe has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher "
You're just saying stuff.He's done nothing as Ronin.He has maybe 3 fighting skill feats the entire time he's been Ronin..and they are all mediocre.He has better fighting skill feats as Hawkeye. "
Shouldn't his fight skill feats as Hawkeye still count for him here? He's still the same guy. Just a different costume and weapons.
He was Ronin for 3 straight events.How long does it take to get 1 credible fighting skill feat.If we only based his fighting skill on what he did as Ronin...than even Sharon Carter is better than Clint.
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shieldHe has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher "
You're just saying stuff.He's done nothing as Ronin.He has maybe 3 fighting skill feats the entire time he's been Ronin..and they are all mediocre.He has better fighting skill feats as Hawkeye. "
I'm saying what I think Clint has gone against so tough "powered" opponents And just because he is Ronin now Doesn't mean you count out his Hawkeye experience I could be wrong, but one thing I know It would not be a "slaughter" as you think
@Morpheus_: Actually, he was Cap and I said briefly. He was offered the post and accepted He just changed his mind later But my point was to say that he showed that he could handle the shield And so far that list is only Steve, Bucky, Agent and himself
" @Morpheus_: Actually, he was Cap and I said briefly. He was offered the post and accepted He just changed his mind later But my point was to say that he showed that he could handle the shield And so far that list is only Steve, Bucky, Agent and himself "
He wore the suit for about five minutes. If that counts as him being Captain America to you, then OK. He was offered the post, but never officially accepted. He tried out the shield, and tested the costume, before refusing, after conversing with Patriot and Kate Bishop.
We already knew he can control the shield, but here he is facing someone who is more adept to its use than he is, and being able to control something you do not possess means very little.
" @Morpheus_: Actually, he was Cap and I said briefly. He was offered the post and accepted He just changed his mind later But my point was to say that he showed that he could handle the shield And so far that list is only Steve, Bucky, Agent and himself "
He wore the suit for about five minutes. If that counts as him being Captain America to you, then OK. He was offered the post, but never officially accepted. He tried out the shield, and tested the costume, before refusing, after conversing with Patriot and Kate Bishop.
We already knew he can control the shield, but here he is facing someone who is more adept to its use than he is, and being able to control something you do not possess means very little. "
It means alot Check out TaskMaster He learned from Cap And was able to take the knowledge and shield wielding ability To go toe to toe with Cap
The fact that Clint is proficient with the shield as well Would make it hard for Bucky to use it affectively against him
And yes, him choosing to wear the custom for 5 min count Though his length of time had nothing to do with my main point
" It means alot Check out TaskMaster He learned from Cap And was able to take the knowledge and shield wielding ability To go toe to toe with Cap
"
Ronin is nothing like Taskmaster. It's not strictly his knowledge of the shield's use that enables him to go against Steve, so your analogy is flawed. Ronin may be able to predict where the shield is going to strike, but Bucky isn't playing fair every single time. He is like a chess player, looking several moves forward. Just because Clint has basic control of the shield that does not mean he is a master in it, nor does it guarantee that Bucky won't be able to effectively trick, and/or hit Clint with it.
The fact that Clint is proficient with the shield as well Would make it hard for Bucky to use it affectively against him
Being able to use it adequately does not make him proficient.
And yes, him choosing to wear the custom for 5 min count
No, it does not, but whatever makes you feel better.
LOL! Clint was a pretty good Cap (though briefly) He did show he can handle the shieldHe has major H2H skills As Ronin he shows it And he learned form Cap as well Though Bucky is smarter, I think Clint is tougher "
You're just saying stuff.He's done nothing as Ronin.He has maybe 3 fighting skill feats the entire time he's been Ronin..and they are all mediocre.He has better fighting skill feats as Hawkeye. "
I'm saying what I think Clint has gone against so tough "powered" opponents And just because he is Ronin now Doesn't mean you count out his Hawkeye experience I could be wrong, but one thing I know It would not be a "slaughter" as you think
You said "He has major H2H skills as Ronin".I'm not excluding what he did as Hawkeye.Your post suggests that he's gotten better since being Ronin but he hasn't really done anything to make him at all comparable to Bucky in his entire career.Bucky could potentially one shot him or beat him in a few punches like he's done better fighters.So it is in fact a slaughter.
" @Morpheus_: Actually, he was Cap and I said briefly. He was offered the post and accepted He just changed his mind later But my point was to say that he showed that he could handle the shield And so far that list is only Steve, Bucky, Agent and himself "
He wore the suit for about five minutes. If that counts as him being Captain America to you, then OK. He was offered the post, but never officially accepted. He tried out the shield, and tested the costume, before refusing, after conversing with Patriot and Kate Bishop.
We already knew he can control the shield, but here he is facing someone who is more adept to its use than he is, and being able to control something you do not possess means very little. "
It means alot Check out TaskMaster He learned from Cap And was able to take the knowledge and shield wielding ability To go toe to toe with Cap
The fact that Clint is proficient with the shield as well Would make it hard for Bucky to use it affectively against him
And yes, him choosing to wear the custom for 5 min count Though his length of time had nothing to do with my main point "
I see your point. Though a side with Bucky, I argument could be made for Clint. Being trained by Cap ghimself and being skilled with the shield (as shown) and with projectiles all together (as Hawkeye) would make it difficult for Bucky to use the shield against him. Clint may be able to avoid or even catch it because Bucky may not be able to execute a move that he hasn't seen or can't expect because of his training with Cap. He has proven his skills and abilities as trainer of the Thunderbolts (as admired by Cap himself) and I remember some of his training sessions as Hawkeye with the West Coast Avengers. As Ronin he shows a new level of skill in acrobatics, H2h and weapon mastery. Some here are just looking at Ronin and forgetting that it is a seasoned Hawkeye in that uniform. My reason for siding with Bucky is because of his training as the Winter Soldier. This would give him that edge over Clint in H2H that would give him the win. But if Ronin was equiped as Hawkeye, the fight would be his.
I see your point. Though a side with Bucky, I argument could be made for Clint. Being trained by Cap ghimself and being skilled with the shield (as shown) and with projectiles all together (as Hawkeye) would make it difficult for Bucky to use the shield against him. Clint may be able to avoid or even catch it because Bucky may not be able to execute a move that he hasn't seen or can't expect because of his training with Cap. He has proven his skills and abilities as trainer of the Thunderbolts (as admired by Cap himself) and I remember some of his training sessions as Hawkeye with the West Coast Avengers. As Ronin he shows a new level of skill in acrobatics, H2h and weapon mastery. Some here are just looking at Ronin and forgetting that it is a seasoned Hawkeye in that uniform. My reason for siding with Bucky is because of his training as the Winter Soldier. This would give him that edge over Clint in H2H that would give him the win. But if Ronin was equiped as Hawkeye, the fight would be his. "
There really can't be an argument made for Clint.There is no proof in comics to match him up to Barnes.You know how many people who were trained by Cap that aren't as good as Clint? Cap took personal interest in him and he's still not very good.Bucky has fought credible h2h fighters and owned them...what has Clint done? Even if Hawkeye has trick arrows he's still going to lose.He couldn't even beat Daredevil with Sonic Arrows...
And let's not forget the skill he showed tied and bound to a chair and surrounded by the Dark Avengers. He nearly killed Iron Patriot with out a weapons and put in that position.
I see your point. Though a side with Bucky, I argument could be made for Clint. Being trained by Cap ghimself and being skilled with the shield (as shown) and with projectiles all together (as Hawkeye) would make it difficult for Bucky to use the shield against him. Clint may be able to avoid or even catch it because Bucky may not be able to execute a move that he hasn't seen or can't expect because of his training with Cap. He has proven his skills and abilities as trainer of the Thunderbolts (as admired by Cap himself) and I remember some of his training sessions as Hawkeye with the West Coast Avengers. As Ronin he shows a new level of skill in acrobatics, H2h and weapon mastery. Some here are just looking at Ronin and forgetting that it is a seasoned Hawkeye in that uniform. My reason for siding with Bucky is because of his training as the Winter Soldier. This would give him that edge over Clint in H2H that would give him the win. But if Ronin was equiped as Hawkeye, the fight would be his. "
There really can't be an argument made for Clint.There is no proof in comics to match him up to Barnes.You know how many people who were trained by Cap that aren't as good as Clint? Cap took personal interest in him and he's still not very good.Bucky has fought credible h2h fighters and owned them...what has Clint done? Even if Hawkeye has trick arrows he's still going to lose.He couldn't even beat Daredevil with Sonic Arrows... "
I disagree. A argument can be made. It would come down to how someone would view the feats shown by Clint. I take the one above to be a big component for Clint's side, though I still feel Bucky would win.
" @King Hercules: All I see is him getting KTFO by Sentry "
Then your ignoring everything else. Bucky would be beaten by Sentry as well and definitely in that position. Did you not read the comic? I don't have the full scan of the action.
" @King Hercules: All I see is him getting KTFO by Sentry "
Then your ignoring everything else. Bucky would be beaten by Sentry as well and definitely in that position. Did you not read the comic? I don't have the full scan of the action. "
You are posting that as a showing I am stating what I see
" @King Hercules: All I see is him getting KTFO by Sentry "
Then your ignoring everything else. Bucky would be beaten by Sentry as well and definitely in that position. Did you not read the comic? I don't have the full scan of the action. "
You are posting that as a showing I am stating what I see "
You are right. I shouldn't assume that everyone has read the comic. I will post the entire scene. But suffice it to say, from a tied position, he was able to get free of Venom and strike Bullseye with such accuracy to send the arrow meant for him at Norman. Agan, all done form a sitting tied position.
"
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