Orion & Beta Ray Bill vs Superman & Thor

Orion(Pre 52)

Beta Ray Bill(standard 616)

Vs

Superman

Thor(Standard 616)

5 Rounds:

1.Morals On.Superman is New 52

2.Morals Off.Superman is New 52

3.Morals On.Superman is Pre 52

4.Morals Off.Superman is Pre 52

5.Morals Off.Superman has Pre and Post 52 feats

Setting:On an Earth the size of Jupiter.Start 100 yards apart

Rules:

Versions are as stated above

Morals are as stated above

K.O. or Death ftw

For Rounds 1-4,Orion only has the Astro Harness.On Round 5,He has standard equipment

No BFR

Questions please ask

Team 1. Equalize speed so that thor can do better.

@dondave @jayc1324 @lvenger @frozen @killemall @beaconofstrength @experio @New_World_Order @ancient_0f_days

Just for starters

I want to say team 1 takes this every round.

Could go either way

ima go with team 2 they are both super powerful and they are both awesome characters #sentrysucks

Round 1: Team 1 wins with Orion as an MVP given he beats either of them alone. Assuming he goes for Superman, who he'll beat soundly, while Bill goes for Thor they should be able to double team Thor and win.

Round 2: Same as above. Morals don't change a lot here considering Orions are pretty loose.

Round 3: Orion has feats to justify being Superior to even Pre-new 52 Superman so same as above.

Round 4: Again, I don't think Morals are a big deal here.

Round 5: Still team 1. Orion having the mother box is a way better and more relevant advantage than Superman gaining composite feats.

Out of curiosity, based on what?

Hopefully this isnt entirely based on 1 single showing from Superman confidential where Orion is able to take down Superman with a single blast of Astro Force.

I don't Get why people put Orion above Superman or Thor.

Toss up

Me to.

I dont get how its a toss up.

Theyre all strong.

Theyre all durable.

3 of them have faster than street level combat speed.

I say team 1

No, it's based on that time he literally slapped a mind controlled Superman into submission and that time he knocked a sundipped Superman across the globe. Go to the blue marvel vs Orion thread, a pretty good case was made which is why many put him above Superman(Lvenger included).

He has better feats.

Thor doesn't need equalized speed. By that standard, so does Bill.......

And yet Darkseid still stomps Orion...

He'd also stomp Superman.

@highaccuser: Cool sounds pretty awesome. Did not know that.

Team 1 wins every round, but in a very hard fight.

Team 1.

@highaccuser

he literally slapped a mind controlled Superman into submission and that time he knocked a sundipped Superman across the globe.

Scans?

Team 1 or stalemate because Orion either beats or stalemates Supes and Beta and Thor could go either way

Orion wasn't slapping Superman around the globe like it was one sided....Superman was doing most of the slapping

Superman landed more hits... but it was a stalemate overall.

@frozen: yes, he does. He consistently has trouble hitting street level opponents.

He has also consistently tagged powerhouses in prolonged battles.

@frozen: cool. Irrelevant, but cool.

It's not really irrelevant. Especially considering this matchup will most likely become Orion vs Superman and Beta Ray Bill vs Thor; the latter being important because Thor and Bill have had several notable fights against each other.

@frozen: brb has won more times than not, no

Not due to speed, though.

@frozen: of course not. Lol. Thor has trouble hitting street level guys but its totally not gonna matter when he faces guys that have superspeed.

Yes, but it depends on the speed feats which the powerhouses have. For example, Superman has the speed feats which indicate he can blitz Thor, however other powerhouses with super-speed may not. Besides, there needn't speed-equalizing because the Thor side has essentially become Thor vs Bill, Bill would win IMO but speed is incosequential between the two.

@karazor-el said:

He has? Can I have issue references please?

Beta Ray Bill has only beat Thor once, and arguably twice. When they first met, Bill was able to disarm Thor, and fought him until he turned back into Donald Blake. Later, Beta Ray Bill bested Thor in a hand to hand battle, due to the heat, when they were fighting for Mjolnir. During the Blood & Thunder Arc, Thor beat up Bill once; he later fought and beat Silver Surfer & Beta Ray Bill, while in warriors madness. Although, I wouldn't call Blood & Thunder the most reliable comic.

I'm pretty sure the first two fights took place in issue(s) 337-338. I'm not too sure what issues the last two fights were in. All I know is that they both took place during the Blood & Thunder arc.

@beaconofstrength: Bill got trashed in Blood and Thunder - though I do recall there being mention that Thor wasn't ''truly'' in Warrior Madness at all.

@beaconofstrength Beta Ray Bill didn't beat up Thor because of the heat. He just woke up first because he was too hot. Heat from Lava wouldn't have roused Thor considering he's endured much worse.

@dondave: I know, I just worded it strangely. I meant he "won" due to the terrain. My mistake. Although, I do think it counts as a win for Bill.

@frozen: I know that Bill got thrashed during Blood and Thunder. That's why I said Thor beat him twice during it. I didn't know it wasn't true Warriors Madness, though.

@beaconofstrength:

I didn't know it wasn't true Warriors Madness, though.

IIRC it wasn't.

@frozen: I still don't think Blood & Thunder is the most reliable comic for feats, though. It leaves a strange taste in my mouth.

A H2H fight between Thor and Bill isn't really relevant to Thor with Mjolnir. If what's said is true, it's Thor with 2 wins and Bill with 1.

I can understand that, Thor did seem rather overpowered in some regards.

@frozen

though I do recall there being mention that Thor wasn't ''truly'' in Warrior Madness at all.

Honestly, Odin's explanation didn't make any sense. I can recall two other instances when Thor has gone into the Warrior Madness. Odin saying that's it's not the real Warrior's Madness because it's incurable doesn't make much sense when Thor has shown a propensity of entering the Warrior's Madness and being able to return to sanity.

@frozen: I know, I just wanted to point out to KalZor that Thor has more wins.

Also, my upload speed is very slow, sorry if this comment looks out of place.

@beaconofstrength said:

Right. So their first encounter where Thor reverted to Donald Blake, and then the time that Odin wanted Bill to win so selected an environment to give him favor? There aren't any magical issues out there that I have somehow managed to miss out on, where Beta Ray Bill actually defeats Thot? Its odd, a lot of people often mention such occasions on message boards, they never cite what issues, they just randomly assert such things. Its very perplexing.

Thor also didn't have warriors madness in Blood and Thunder mind you but he was mentally unhinged and so especially volatile. Thanks for your assistance beaconofstrength.

@frozen: agreed.

@sc: i said brb has won more times than not, no

Its a question. So i woukdnt be abke to tell ya

:)

Team 2

@frozen said:

This is because contrary to many CV users ideas, Starlin was a pretty big, and huge proponent of Thor. He viewed Thor as the Marvel measuring stick and so creating a character like Thanos was huge deal that even Thor would struggle with him. A lot old school writers had that sort of appreciation for older characters because they know the history of characters better than most, especially the characters Kirby worked on.

Oh my bad then man, the lack of question mark made me think it was a statement rather than question. To your question though then no, Thor has beaten Beta Ray Bill more if you define "beat" as relatively fair physical encounter were one of the individuals opposed is knocked unconscious or left immobile by the force of the other, so the acts of one fictional character demonstrating to have "beat" another.