@slimj87d said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@SlimJ87D: The Byakygan does provide a strong resistance to Genjutsu. It says so here http://www.leafninja.com/hyuuga.php
I went on that page, and searched the term Genjutsu and I can't find exactly where it says it at all. So far, I don't think there is any evidence that says it blocks genjutsu completely. So far we haven't seen it completely block genjutsu.
Leafninja is as useful as a wikia (which are quite useful). But here on the wikia http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Byakugan this is what it says about Genjutsu exactly.
" Like the Sharingan and Rinnegan, the Byakugan's ability to see chakra and its flow allows the user to detect chakra sealed barriers as well as determine when genjutsu is being used.
Those two sources only show that like the wikia says, it can tell if a Genjutsu is in use. It does not say it negates, blocks or stops a genjutsu from affecting the Byakugan owner. It does not say it grants the user immunity. I'm a little skeptical of the evidence so far. Does anyone else have any solid information, maybe from a handbook, from kishi or on panel where it claims the Byakugan counters all genjutsu [period] because as of right now I see no solid evidence.
that last paragraph... the sharingan doesn't get immunity either.
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@SlimJ87D said:
@redbird3rdboywonder: Nowhere does it say, but a lot of people in this debate claimed so. A lot of people claimed that Genjutsu won't work on a person with Byakuygan, at all. I was curious and asked for evidence from them. Not receiving any, I researched it myself and that's where I left off before I got a response from you. Hope that clears things up.
Nope the Byakugan in fact has never been tested against Genjutsu well not on panel at least but I, however will say that since the Byakugan allows the Hyuga's to see through genjutsu, it would give them a very high resistance to it but since it's never been tested on panel though and yeah it does
No doujutsu is immune to genjutsu. sharingan and byakugan BOTH "see through" genjutsu via being able to easily detect that they are in one and subsequently the victim can then break out of it. since this is an insight granted ability/buff the byakugan is likely superior in this function because the byakugan's insight is greater than the sharingan's.
in terms of genjutsu, the sharingan is better because it can CAST it and REVERSE it if the user has the skills to do so.... but it is NOT immune. if it was, sasuke and itach couldn't have tried to use genjutsu on each other.
@ramius said:
Sasuke can make Kirin and finish Neji..Sasuke wins
no he can't. setting up kirin requires elaborate things AND safe distance to not hit himself... sasuke would never be afforded these things in this battle.
saying things like this inspires people to say "nope... neji wins in a OHKO because juuken attacks internally" -_-
@slimj87d said:
@redbird3rdboywonder: I don't know if that gives you resistance because again on the panels it just states that the user knows when a genjutsu is in use or the other user is using one. But sharingan genjutsu happens almost instantly. Same with Toad Song Genjutsu, it happens almost immediately if heard. You could say that the user might have a advantage to think up a strategy to counter it if there is a time period to cast the Genjutsu. Like the one Itachi used on Kabuto or the Toad Song Genjutsu a Byakugan user can probably see that one is being prepared and prepare for it. But against ones that happen upon eye contact and happen quickly, there is no confirmed data or factual proof we have that a Byakugan user has any form of resistance or that it is harder to cast a Genjutsu on them unless someone has a databook entry that says so. Or it says so on panel. Because of this, Sasuke's genjutsu rating at a 4 triumphs any genjutsu Neji can use against Sasuke which is rated at a 2 and therefore conclusively Sasuke has an advantage there stat wise and on panel feat wise.
To everyone else, I still haven't seen a strong argument for Neji here.
I've provided the argument for neji in the previous post.
Toad Song doesn't take effect as quickly as you say... if you remember, pain heard the song and got hit with it a couple of times before it eventually trapped him. not only that but every time he's caught by it, we see things going into his ears.... if this is chakra entering his ears - as it likely is considering genjutsus attakc through the senses, this too can be avoided.
you're mistaken on some things... sharingan genjutsu doesn't happen nearly so quick if you examine when the user starts trying to use it. it LOOKS instant because they usually only show it's launch, however the user must flow their chakra there first and this has been heavily hinted at, and then was eventually straight up revealed. i forget exactly when it happened, but they had a sharingan user read someone's chakra being flowed to their eyes for a move and thereby was able to anticipate the move -- the byakugan reads these kinds of things much better than the sharingan does. so no, sharingan genjutsu isn't truly instant upon eye contact, and on top of that considering neji's chakra control breaking free with be very quick and very easy.
sasuke has an advantage panel/feat wise (because he simply gets more panel time), but NOT stat wise. and panel time ends up betraying sasuke in some instances since we're able to learn so much more about him and what he can and can't do/handle.
I believe Sasuke has some good use of summons, Snakes, Hawks, etc. His chidori are also much more versatile than they were before even chirodi through his sword along with all the skill sets he absorbed from Orochimaru or learned from Orochimaru will give him an advantage.
Comparing their handbook entries:
Neiji
Sasuke
The third handbook already lists that Sasuke has better Ninjutsu skills, Genjutsu (even with the use of his sharingan only, he has superior Genjutsu than Neiji. It can be argued Neiji's Byakugan can counter Sasuke's Genjutsu, but then again Sasuke's Genjutsu is on a whole other level than it was before, Neiji has not encountered the more powerful Genjutsu of current Sasuke from my memory.), Intelligence, strength and hand seals.
Neiji only has the advantage in Taijutsu, but again Sasuke has his sharingan which you can argue counters a lot of Neiji's H2H abilities but probably not the gentle fist style. So Neiji seems to only have the real advantage here.
Without EMS or MS, Sasuke still have tons of skills with his various Chidori techniques, summoning abilities (various kinds), snake techniques and other things he learned from Orochimaru, the sharingan and the advantage in multiple stats as listed above even if you want to argue Genjutsu no working. One can argue that he does not have the snake techniques since he lost the absorption of Oro, but taking that away and stacking everything else together still says Sasuke takes it.
the stats that matter look to favor him until we actually examine abilities.
Strength favors sasuke... but it DOES NOT MATTER... neji uses juuken and that's part of of the reason his strength rating isn't that developed. despite that tenkestu juuken strikes (which are obviously less impactful than standard juuken strikes) are shown to be strong enough to knock an opponent through the trunk of a thick tree.
genjutsu favors sasuke... but doesn't really matter either. neji can defend himself against genjutsu just fine thanks to the byakugan chakra reading, byakugan detection of genjutsu (this is "seeing through" genjutsu btw), and his chakra control
speed is "even"... but byakugan handles speed better than the sharingan does. evidenced by the FACT that lee was more skilled in taijutsu than neji AND FASTER, but still couldn't contend with him and needed the help multiple gates to stand a chance. so this ends up favoring neji
ninjutsu favors sasuke, but neji's no slouch here. but what's most important is that kaiten trumps pretty much all of sasuke ninjutsu. so ninjutsu does not REALLY favor sasuke since it won't actually be able to serve him in battle. it's unfortunate that they don't actually let us see neji's Ninjutsu prowess, but still this is basically even.
Taijutsu neji dominates this from a skill standpoint AND style standpoint. pretty much all his known attacks are considered taijutsu (including kaiten and kuushou). sasuke doesn't have any hope here. his sharingan ability to read movement is useless here too. first - to be clear, he DOES NOT PREDICT neji's movements (the prediction stuff is very conditional to the opponent, and neji doesn't meet those conditions). second the byakugan reads movements better than the sharingan does. third the byakugan *senses* any movements within a certain range... which make it clearer that sasuke has NO HOPE here. this drastically favors neji.
Stamina LOOKS even with the even rating, but it isn't.... sasuke usage of chakra is not nearly as efficient as neji's. almost none of neji's moves are known to consume a ton of chakra. this favors neji
intelligence(slightly) favors sasuke in the ratings but is another useless thing here because the byakugan tells neji pretty much everything he needs to know. aside from that, Neji's been shown to be very smart and even intuitively understood shikamaru's thinking. i'd say he's shown to be smarter than sasuke given how prone sasuke is to doing dumb things... but whatever Sasuke can keep this small advantage.
Hand Seals... another pretty much pointless "advantage" here that makes sasuke rating point total look like it means something when it doesn't. it favors sasuke.
in the end, the ratings that really matter favor Neji over Sasuke due to their abilities/styles/etc.
Neji is the one truly holding the advantage in this battle.
just wondering... shouldn't we recognize what the authors did here?
they HALTED the progress of a dude who was way ahead of one of the main characters, while giving MASSIVE point increases to the main team (Naruto sasuke and sakura). a person who was much more talented than ANY of them to begin with and who gained all that strength on his own and who does actually train hard, suddenly stops progressing rating wise... even though he advances 2 ranks to become a jounin and started getting actual training.... this makes NO SENSE AT ALL.
people are missing the obvious fact that the author tried to make characters like Naruto and Sasuke stronger than Neji because he realized that they weren't and that their abilities paled in comparison to the ones he gave Neji...
Log in to comment