Martial Artists vs. Street Levelers

@serrure: we don't know if black panther was wearing the vibranium suit against namor yet.

@serrure: I just misunderstood what you were saying. My bad. I thought that you were saying that Iron Fist was more powerful than Spider-man, period.

But I still can't agree with you on the more useful. Iron fist, as powerful as he is, still could be taken down, if out numbered. Spider-man, on the other hand, is MUCH faster than anybody on the other team. Iron Fist may be able to 1-shot almost the whole other team, but he doesn't have the senses, or speed, of spider-man.

It is ignorance to say that Iron fist is anywhere on the same level as spider-man on combat speed. And, yes, it is due to spider-sense. Because of spider-sense, spider-man is much superior to Iron Fist. If he senses things before they happen, he has extra time to react, and move. Thus, making him faster.

Take away his spider-sense, the gap of speed is not as great, but i think, due to spider-man being stronger, spider-man would still be a little faster.

Probably team two, Spider-Man, luke cage, BlackPanther are greater than a hf less wolverine, Slade and the others who have no way to damage BP and cage.

The Street Levelers, in a very good fight.

@serrure said:

@bat_girl_cc: Phoenix Namor

Phoenix Namor (btw this guy was able to beat up Gladiator, Rulk, and Thing)

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hes also taken hits from Blood Lusted Iron Fist (Tchalla was holding back here also)

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he tanked Stardusts blast.

i think we're done here.

Lets move onto skill

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see how he positions himself to take Spider Man out

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see him beat Kraven the Hunter

Deathstrokes Armor will be destroyed

destroys all metal

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here Hank Pym uses it to destroy Adamantium

1) Being very powerful is pointless, if Namor wasn't really trying...Superman could destroy the moon with one punch, but he's always holding back...and Namor's attack didn't even damaged B.P's regular suit, even his mask was just a bit damaged...how is that suppose to be impressive?

2) Haven't you said that B.P's vibranium suit has never been broken?...because in the last scans of his fight against Iron Fist, it seems pretty much broken, specially on his chest.

3) I don't see how a little blast trumps the feats that i posted, i think you should take a better look at them.

4) Yeah, Vibranium anti-metal destroys all metals...in the Marvel Universe!...but the thing is, Vibranium doens't even exist in the DC Universe...also, Nth metal is not from the earth...its origin is from Thanagar...and Thanagar doesn't even exist in the Marvel Universe...so, there's no reason, to assume that i would work on Slade.

5) Adamantium also doesn't exist in the DC Universe...and if you said that, to try say that B.P's suit, is more durable than Adamantium, then, try again...Adamantium's durabillity > Vibranium's durabillity.

Taken from Marvel's own database:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Vibranium

" Vibranium is not as hard or dense as Adamantium, but it is still very durable. "

Ok, but even so, i still don't think that B.P's armor is that much more durable than Slade's.

SL

Here are the scans:

half of the street levelers ar emartial artist si think im confused with the term street leveler can someone help me out (im kinda new kinda)

street levelers win

@jashro44 said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@jashro44 said:

@bat_girl_cc: I can't upload scans now but the lobo slade fought was said to have inconsistent power levels in storm watch.

Ok, but even so, i still don't think that B.P's armor is that much more durable than Slade's.

Here are the scans:

Ok, Thanks :)

But now, i'm confused...they said: "remember, there are others." ??...like, in, more than 2, just in the New 52 Universe?...WOW!

Anyway, he isn't a clone, but rather other version...and it's interesting, since he looks alot like Pre 52 Lobo.

Well, that's debatable, so giving you my opnion alone, would only mean that you would think the same way as me, so the best i can do for you, is this:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/define-street-level-628585/

Click on the link above, and choose the "definition" that you like more.

This. Black Panther recently gave Namor a run for his money and he just had standard equipment. I don't see anyone on The martial artist team doing much.

@serrure: Thanks for that because @bat_girl_cc doesn't know what kind of world of Pain He has to deal with on the street level team.

Spidey and Cage alone will be hard to deal with. Logan and Slade are the toughest on their team.

Oh Yeah!...he took a blast sooo powerful, that didn't even damaged his standard equipment...even his mask was just a bit damaged...now, just imagine how powerfull that blast was!

Just in case you missed it (you probably did)...i already said that the street-levelers should win (mainly due to Spidy)...i was only arguing that B.P doens't stomp Slade, even tho he could beat him.

No, it is truth to say they are close in speed, as anyone who has read IF in modern times could attest. It shows a lack of knowledge on both characters to try and refute such (as IF has proven to be able to match Spidey in hand to hand a few times and has even tagged Spidey with the Iron Fist, not to mention once teaching someone how to successfully trick his spider-sense). He dodges bullets last second, fights on the sides of buildings on the outside of the building while dodging multidirectional gunfire, and has proven to tag Spidey multiple times in hand to hand. They are pretty damn close in combat speed, and aren't that far off at all. If Spidey pulls ahead, it isn't by much, and doesn't give him all that much advantage over Iron Fist, and anyone that knows me on this site, knows I don't proclaim any sort of loss or deficit on Spidey's part lightly. Hell, Spidey has even had issues with Steel Serpent who boasts comparable speeds to Iron Fist (this is one of IF's foes), and has been tagged and caught by him...

As someone who actually knows both characters very, exceedingly well, I can speak with some confidence. Now please, if you have a disagreement, stop coming in and being rude, and stop proclaiming the ignorance of others. It is completely uncalled for.

I don't see where I was being rude, at all. I said it is ignorance to say that a much lower level character is faster than the arguably, most powerful street level character. Spider-man has dodged point blank range bullets, from 5 ft away, after the bullet was released. Again, this is due to spider-sense. Because of spider-sense, spider-man takes a large leap in speed.

Street Levelers

You were being rude by stating I was speaking in ignorance.

If you think Iron Fist is a low level character, then you basically have not read much of Iron Fist as of late, and are ill informed. He is not level, and really stopped being low level just prior to the Immortal Iron Fist series, but it was during that series that he really received an upgrade. Iron Fist has dodged automatic gunfire from point blank ranges (even dodging them within a fraction of an inch), same as Spidey. He has caught sniper bullets fired from behind him while he was distracted at the last second, so forth and so on. He does it all without the benefit of spider-sense, just his speed, experience, heightened senses (he can hear people sweat) and training. Iron Fist stopped being low level many years ago, and much like Spidey, is in the upper tiers of street level to the point they barely qualify for street level anymore. Low levels don't lay out the likes of Hercules, or one shot Ragnarok. Besides...once again, he has already faced Spidey in hand to hand, and proved to be able to match Spidey in the speed department, and tag him. I mean heck, they both even have feats of tagging speedsters...

Spidey is fast, and you don't need to inform me about his spider-sense and what it does for him. I know, and understand all of that. Hell, Spidey can even predict a foes movements with his spider-sense, and with Way of the Spider training, his use of it was enhanced even further. It still doesn't put his combat speed that far beyond Danny, who has already proven to be able to damn near match Spidey in that department. Spidey is fast, but any avid reader of Iron Fist knows that Danny is still in the same ballpark combat speed wise.

@wyldsong:

Saying someone is ignorant, is not being rude. Ignorance, is nothing but lack of realization, or understanding.

Also, I never said Iron Fist was a low level character, I just said he was a LOWER level character. As in, lower than Spider-man.

Martial Artists take the win IMO, its a nasty fight but the Arts of Martial win with PRIDE ON this one...i see Wolverine, Deathstroke, Deadpool , & Batman making clutch moves to secure the Martial Artists squad with the victory

And you would be wrong to say so,as I have already pointed out. Iron Fist can lay out characters Spidey cannot really hope to harm, and plays in the same ballpark speed wise.

@wyldsong: Hold your horses there mister. Am i hearing a comic book reader, saying that Iron Fist is more powerful than Spider-man? LOL. That has to be one of the funniest things I've heard all DAY! *Insert crying laugh emoji here*

I'm sorry to break it to you mister, Spider-man has villains that are more powerful than Iron Fist. (Electro, Rhino, Carnage)

@nick31898: Iron Fist can hit a helluva lot harder than Peter can

@stormdriven:

Hitting power Pete<Iron Fist

Speed:Pete>Iron Fist

Strength:Pete>Iron FIst

Intelligence:Pete>Iron Fist

Equipment:Pete>Iron Fist

Spider-sense>>>Iron Fist's chi.

One feat. doesn't make a character more powerful overall.

Batman is better at h2h than superman, but who's more powerful? Superman.

Sorry to break it to you, but current Iron Fist could one shot the majority of Spidey's rogues list. Spidey cannot lay out Hercules (the same one that goes toe to toe with Thor). Spidey cannot one shot Ragnarok (another one that has gone toe to toe with Thor). Spidey cannot one shot a helicarrier nor helicopter. Spidey cannot punch through the chest of Nul. Spidey cannot send Skaar flying with a punch (who has gone toe to toe with Hulk). Each person I just listed is above Spidey's rogues levels, and Iron Fist has affected or one shot them all.

Yes, Iron Fist can hit far, far harder, with class 100 style hits, and boasts speed in the same ballpark as Spidey. Sorry to break it to you kid, but you obviously don't know much about Iron Fist.

If Iron Fist, and Spidey fought, it would be an awesome display of speed and agility. Spidey has the ability to take IF out, and IF damn sure has the speed, ability, and power to lay out Spidey. Again...Danny has already proven to have the speed and ability to tag Spidey regardless of Pete's speed and spider-sense, just like Pete has proven to have the speed and experience to tag Danny. It is an even back and forth considering skill, speed, experience, and general physical stats. Overall striking power and ability to hurt someone? Danny's chi takes the cake there:

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Spidey is not taking down a helicarrier with a punch...

I am not sure why you think Danny is so low on the totem pole, and why Spidey is so high...but he is not out of Danny's league. Danny is not some peak human with glowing hands. Danny is superhuman in stats thanks to chi amping, and hits like a class 100 thanks to the Iron Fist technique.

Doesn't Kraven have a high level healing factor now? He might be able to tank an Iron Fist punch as well.

@wyldsong: AS I already stated, Hitting power doesn't make Iron Fist as powerful as Spider-man.

Spider-man dodges things faster than IF fists(Bullets, electric blasts) Maybe not as Strong as them, but faster.

So, yes, it may be a good fight, but Spider-man would take it ultimately. I like Iron Fist, don't get me wrong, but it is just a False statement to say that He is as powerful as Spider-man.

And Iron Fist has hit Spider-Man with an Iron Fist/nerve strike/so on...as well he has dodged bullets, electric blasts and so on himself...Spidey is not out of his league, and being an avid reader of both, I don't get this insistence of yours that Spidey is on another level than Danny. He really isn't...look, Spidey is fast, and that spider-sense affords him a lot of options in combat, but in of itself, it is very limited as compared to what Danny can do with chi. Danny has far more training with a multitude of combat styles and heightened senses. His chi allows him to heal himself, heal others, blind foes, mind meld with them, absorb energy (up to the force of a nuke), free himself from mind control, knock aside magic, punch through disintegration fields, knock around class 100s, one shot helicarriers/apache copters/etc, chi amp objects, turn a punch into a bomb blast, amp his stats to superhuman levels, so forth and so on. Danny has tagged speedsters, kept up with Spidey level speeds, dodged multidirectional gunfire, dodged close range gunfire last second, etc, etc, etc. I can take a multitude of some of Spidey's best dodging feats, and find something comparable performed by Danny.

Danny's attacks are far more powerful than Spidey's, and his combat speed is damn near comparable. Danny has already proven to be fast enough to tag Spidey, proven durable enough to tank his attacks and roll with the punches, which should be an open and shut case right there. If you completely ignore Danny's showings, powerset, skills, and abilities in modern times, then maybe you would have a point. As is, Spidey is not out of Danny's league.

@wyldsong: I never said Iron Fist wasn't in the same league, I said he wasn't AS powerful. And there is no denying, that even if the gap is small, Spider-man is more powerful.

He's faster, stronger, smarter, has better equipment, and his spider-sense>Chi.

Look I love IF, and 'm not taking anything away from him, he just isn't as powerful as Spider-man. There is nothing you can say to change that.

No, technically, he is more powerful than Spidey (Spidey's physicals and spider-sense make a good fight between the two, but overall horsepower goes to Danny), as Spidey couldn't lay out the foes Danny can, can't heal himself from mortal wounds like Danny has, and Danny has the speed/skill/experience to match him. Danny is more powerful than Spidey, unless you can show me Spidey one shotting a train or helicarrier...Danny more than has the speed to match Spidey, that can't be argued. I love Spidey. He is one of my all time favorites, and is probably more of a favorite of mine than Danny, but his spider-sense hasn't saved him from getting tagged by Danny, and Danny's chi has far more applications than spider-sense. That chi is far more powerful and has far more uses than spider-sense.

Hell, in the New Avengers fight against Ragnarok...who did Spidey himself turn to when Ragnarok was heading his way? Iron Fist. Spider-sense didn't take Ragnarok down...chi did.

Disagree all you want, but facts are facts, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. Danny has the proven speed and skill to match and tag Spidey, regardless of spider-sense, Danny's chi is far more versatile than spider-sense with a wider variety of applications, and Iron Fist can take down foes Spidey really can't affect, all thanks to chi.

I agree with most of what you said except this. Danny did admit in amazing spider-man 652 that Spider-sense does allow Peter to keep ahead of him. That and I feel its been reflected in their past fights. I'm not saying that Danny can't tag Peter but I think spider-sense is what really gives Peter an edge on Danny.

Team 2

Thing is, Danny has been proven to tag Pete multiple times regardless of it. And had he not held back on an IF attack, he could have treated Pete to the one shot. Spider-sense does afford Pete a lot, but the main point I am trying to get through the other users head, is that it does not put him on a completely different level of power than IF. It does allow him to keep ahead of many foes, and puts him several steps ahead of the game in regards to most hand to hand encounters, but it doesn't make him Superman in comparison as someone on this thread believes.

Overall raw power, Danny does pull slightly ahead, and spider-sense is an awesome advantage for Pete, but it doesn't make him untouchable. I think a full out fight between the two would be awesome to see. I would be hesitant to call a winner=)

The biggest point is not Danny beating Pete, but killing this notion that Pete is beyond Danny to the point of being on another plane of existence. Chi is more powerful than spider-sense overall, but spider-sense is damn useful against chi users.

@wyldsong: IIRC Danny and Peter have had 2 fights. The first one was pretty old and I feel it was kind of PISy (Didn't Danny break Peters webs by flexing?), their second fight Danny needed to exploit Peters friendship and use traps to tag him, and despite that and having knowledge of the location Peter didn't have Peter still had the upper hand IMO.

I agree Danny can keep up and that spider-sense doesn't put him on a separate tier altogether from Rand but I am mostly just saying I think it helps Peter a lot in his fights against Danny.

The old one...no need to comment on. Danny was nowhere near current levels, had not absorbed Orson's chi, nor studied the book of the Iron Fist...and a lot of silly things happened in those old showings. Unless he were to unleash a chi blast, he has no business breaking those webs.

In the second one, Danny was able to get close to Spidey for the nerve strike while talking to him (getting it off before Spidey could react with warning from spider-sense, though to be fair, Pete recovered a bit faster than normal due to his reactions but was still affected by it), but the rest of the fight, Iron Fist used his wiles and environment a bit better (the location was a rooftop so there was not much to exploit in knowing the environment), and Danny was still able to tag Spidey regardless of his speed and spider-sense, and this was before Danny's upgrades from the Immortal Iron Fist. No one really had the upper hand and the fight stopped because Spidey messed up by almost knocking over a huge sign onto the street and innocents below. There wasn't a clear advantage in that fight. They were pretty even, though had Danny unleashed with a bomb blast in close quarters or gone all out with the Iron Fist punch, or had Pete just wailed into him when he had the chance, either could have ended the fight. They were pretty even all things considered.

I think you and I at least agree, that both are pretty much the upper echelon of street level, and each has the means to beat the other. Danny has the overall edge in raw power, speed is comparable (slight edge to Pete though Danny is in the ballpark), with spider-sense giving Pete the ability to keep up with Danny's enhanced senses and skill. This isn't like a comparison of the power levels of Batman versus Superman here, which I think you and I can more than agree.

Spider-sense is an awesome and great edge, but overall, the Shou-Lao chi is more versatile and powerful. Spidey and Danny each have distinct advantages and abilities to bring to any fight, there is no arguing nor denying that. My big beef here is one particular viner claiming that Spidey is on a completely different level than Iron Fist, which you and I know is not true. A fight between them would be a tossup, and would be close irregardless of which side of the fence you fall on.

@jashro44: In the end bro, I am not trying to prove Danny's overall superiority to Pete...I have spent far more time defending Pete on these forums, as I think you know, as we have been in the trenches together in many a debate with Pete. I just got confronted over my ideas that Danny plays in the same ballpark as Pete and has the ability to lay out foes Pete can't. We have someone here who believes Pete is all but untouchable, and that Danny plays Batman to Spider-Man's Superman power level wise, which is not true. Back in the day, much like a certain viner I have been discussing with (nick), I used to proclaim Pete over Danny, but after detailed review, research, and so on, I know it to be pretty damn close. It would definitely be a close fight.

By the way, for our CaV...a heads up...I am just editing some game play vids, and then I will post my opener. That is the problematic thing with using a character whose main showings are from video games...

@wyldsong: @nick31898: Danny is more powerful than Spidey, this shouldn't even be a debate. He has more damage output. Overall though Spidey is still better. Just as Cyclops has ridiculously high damage output for a street lever, but could be defeated by someone like DS.

@lukehero: I agree for the most part, though physically thanks to chi and skills, Danny can give Pete a run for his money. In the end, it depends on who lands the first and hardest hit. Each really has the means and ability to do so. All things considered, the two are fairly comparably matched.

Concerning the first fight I think we agree. That and both characters have changed a lot since then so I don't think its something to really think about IMO. Back than Peter was having problems with people he would curbstomp now and the same can be said for iron fist I believe.

Well Danny got close to do a nerve strike because he used his friendship and tried tricking Peter. We've seen spider-sense get tricked before. Even Otto remarked that his body overridden his powers when he first started out.

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He already had his hand on Peters shoulder because Peter let his guard down.

but the rest of the fight, Iron Fist used his wiles and environment a bit better (the location was a rooftop so there was not much to exploit in knowing the environment),

I agree but thats because he knew everything about the location. Like when he rolled onto the couch to cushion his fall, turning off the lights in an attempt to use stealth (which didn't work due to spider-sense). And also when they were on the roof tops Danny activated a trap which forced Peter to jump and allowed Peter to tag him.

And to be fair Peter did use the environment. Like after Danny punched him Peter punched from beneath the roof to surprise iron fist and swung a sign into Danny as well. He also used iron fists own toss against him, so Peter did show off his own use of tactics.

and Danny was still able to tag Spidey regardless of his speed and spider-sense, and this was before Danny's upgrades from the Immortal Iron Fist.

The only hits Danny got was the pressure point above which involved exploiting him and Peters friendship to get Peter to lower his guard, when he used the trap to get iron fist to jump, and I guess when Peter leapt at him and Danny caught and tossed him (all though that last one didn't amount to much, Peter was also expecting Danny to do that and he took full advantage).

And all though Danny has been upgraded peter has his way of the spider now. So they both have improved.

No one really had the upper hand and the fight stopped because Spidey messed up by almost knocking over a huge sign onto the street and innocents below. There wasn't a clear advantage in that fight.

I disagree.

They were pretty even, though had Danny unleashed with a bomb blast in close quarters or gone all out with the Iron Fist punch, or had Pete just wailed into him when he had the chance, either could have ended the fight. They were pretty even all things considered.

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The only reason Danny connected with an iron fist was because he used traps. As for a bomb last maybe, but Dannys range attacks don't seem to be as powerful as his melee from what I have seen. Peter could possibly block it with webbing. There is also the fact that Peter could have just web spammed as well. Danny would be hard pressed to counter that IMO.

The reason I think Peter had the upper hand was because all of Danny's connects were circumstancel. They involved exploiting Peters friendship, using traps, and also tossing Peter who probably let Danny do that in order to use his own momentum. Danny did move with Peters punches which is pretty impressive but Peter avoided more hits and still landed more. And up until the part with the sign Peter was beating on Danny and didn't seem like Danny could really do anything back IMO.

I think you and I at least agree, that both are pretty much the upper echelon of street level, and each has the means to beat the other. Danny has the overall edge in raw power, speed is comparable (slight edge to Pete though Danny is in the ballpark), with spider-sense giving Pete the ability to keep up with Danny's enhanced senses and skill. This isn't like a comparison of the power levels of Batman versus Superman here, which I think you and I can more than agree.

I can agree with this.

Spider-sense is an awesome and great edge, but overall, the Shou-Lao chi is more versatile and powerful. Spidey and Danny each have distinct advantages and abilities to bring to any fight, there is no arguing nor denying that. My big beef here is one particular viner claiming that Spidey is on a completely different level than Iron Fist, which you and I know is not true. A fight between them would be a tossup, and would be close irregardless of which side of the fence you fall on.

I agree that Peter and Danny are on the same level (all though I've always favored Peter for a slight majority). I just disagree with the part about spider-sense not helping against Danny. It helped Peter counter Danny's stealth in the dark, and also as I said Danny has admitted spider-sense is the hardest thing to counter for him. I personally feel spider-sense is what gives Peter a majority over Danny all things considering. I agree it wouldn't be a stomp but I am mostly just saying that it has made it very difficult for Danny to tag Peter in the past.

That and I disagree with a few things concerning Danny and Peters fight.

I agree with this (all though as I said I think Peter can take Danny for a slight majority due to spider-sense). Peter is definitely not untouchable especially to someone with the speed,skill, and versatility Danny has. With that said I personally don't think Danny tagging Peter will be easy due to spider-sense.

Kaine and venom not having spider-sense are why I think Danny can take them for a majority. But I think spider-sense will allow Peter to take Danny. A slight majority but still a majority.

@jashro44:

I just disagree with the part about spider-sense not helping against Danny. It helped Peter counter Danny's stealth in the dark, and also as I said Danny has admitted spider-sense is the hardest thing to counter for him. I personally feel spider-sense is what gives Peter a majority over Danny all things considering. I agree it wouldn't be a stomp but I am mostly just saying that it has made it very difficult for Danny to tag Peter in the past.

Let me clear this up, as I think there is a misunderstanding here. Spider-sense will most definitely help against Danny. I don't think I said it wouldn't help, and if I intoned that, then I apologize, and hopefully this helps clear that up. My point is, spider-sense isn't more powerful than the Shou-Lao chi overall, but it is damn awesome to have, and a bad arse power. According to nick, it makes Spidey the most powerful hero in this thread to the point that Iron Fist just has no chance there, which isn't true, but you and I have agreed where they sit at least.

As for Danny versus Pete..it depends. I see it as closer to 50/50, because if Pete gets in close, Danny can widen the area on his Iron Fist. Conversely, Spidey can avoid a lot of strikes, and has the potential to lay Danny out. They each have the tools and ability to take wins.

That and I disagree with a few things concerning Danny and Peters fight.

It's still a rooftop though, so I just don't see it as there being all that much to really know and all that advantageous, and really, I still don't see where Pete had the upper hand overall. It was a pretty close fight all around, but I guess we aren't always going to agree my friend. Oye, I'd go for further breakdown, but I really need to work on those vids and get that CaV up and running. I'll leave it at agree to disagree=)

I agree with this (all though as I said I think Peter can take Danny for a slight majority due to spider-sense). Peter is definitely not untouchable especially to someone with the speed,skill, and versatility Danny has. With that said I personally don't think Danny tagging Peter will be easy due to spider-sense. Kaine and venom not having spider-sense are why I think Danny can take them for a majority. But I think spider-sense will allow Peter to take Danny. A slight majority but still a majority.

We do and don't agree here, mainly on the majority or being closer to 50/50. Danny tagging Peter won't be easy, but then again, it just depends on the kinds of attacks Danny employs.

@wyldsong: Fair enough.

@jashro44: Reading that top quoted on my response to you though, I can see and understand where you had concerns. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough brother man=)

@wyldsong: No problem.