Luther has a superior body control and a superhuman resilience that allows him to block attacks with his mucles.
He can just protect the zone he don't want to be hit so she will see the opening in his defense and hit where he wants she to hit.
Then, she is not aware of Luthers abilities she will be blocked this way and stomped. :O
there are 2 major problems with that theory:
1) Luther Strode does not have his healling-factor here, read the OP.
2) Cassandra's Body-Reading, tells Cass everything that she needs to know about her opponents, including whatever they will do before they actually do it...she can even tell what Luther would be thinking/feeling just by looking at him:
luther strode stomps and it's not even a fight...... i would say that he has quicksilver level speed, at least short speed bursts like that and his fight against cass would look like quicksilvers fight against mister x
What? so you're comparing Luther Strode's speed to the one of a speedster?...that's a huge assumption! don't you think?...also, Taskmaster can doubled his speed, can't he? and yet he gets beaten often, that doesn't make you a speedster.
Also, Mister-X is mister-X, and Cassandra Cain is Cassandra Cain...one reads bodies, the other reads minds...which pre-cog is more useful in combat, is debatable, but the point is, they are very different, so they work differently...also, that fight, proves that you can overcome ones pre-cog, by being faster...which is pretty much what i'm saying here, so thanks for helping my argument.
Luther has a superior body control and a superhuman resilience that allows him to block attacks with his mucles.
He can just protect the zone he don't want to be hit so she will see the opening in his defense and hit where he wants she to hit.
Then, she is not aware of Luthers abilities she will be blocked this way and stomped. :O
there are 2 major problems with that theory:
1) Luther Strode does not have his healling-factor here, read the OP.
No problem : That's body-control, not his healing factor.
2) Cassandra's Body-Reading, tells Cass everything that she needs to know about her opponents, including whatever they will do before they actually do it...she can even tell what Luther would be thinking/feeling just by looking at him:
2) He has a superior body control and she don't know about it, that means that he can fool her if he understand about her body-reading ability. He has some precog too who looks like more a "midnighter's battle computer" even that's "just" the 1000 possible next move, Cassandra can anticipate your next move, not 1000. Luthor has an impressive marksmanship making him a "Bullseye" and he can potentially turn every item in his surroundings into a lethal weapon. He has HUGES advantages over Cass'.
you're just saying that Luther Strode is faster, just because...at first, i thought that you had evidence, and that you were just waiting for me to push you, to post it, but afteral...you are on the argument: "Luther is meta-human"...seriously?...that's it?...so Harley Quin is faster than Batman, Cass, Daredevil, Nightwing, etc...because Harley is meta-human...
Well. Given what you shared about Batgirl being metahuman with peak human statistic further concludes anything representing shes faster than Luther; because she's not. Justin Jordan himself tweeted DIRECTLY AT ME stating that Luther is twice peak human in every aspect. (except for a few minor instances, but twitter and the writer doesn't do much against on panel feats representing a complete and different meaning and visual) but nonetheless, I keep his word. Cass can run a 4.2/40, throw a baseball at 100mph and break concrete of which is considered aggregated speed, which is why they thought she was metahuman, but she has metahuman resemblance with her peak human statistics.
I wasnt pushing you, i wasnt doing anything but keeping my side of the argument while you were trying to tell me that just because theres the blur effect from the art, it completely means otherwise. Ill post accordingly.
As you can see, when the Librarian stated the "hyperbole", as much most love to call it, Luther wasn't able to see it because he wasn't experienced enough to take in those Strange talents of his. It took the fate of his dear mother for him to start seeing the thousand moves constantly happening at once to see where his target is going to be. Each and every single one of those holograms are particular movements that could possibly be made with a certain outcome to be determined while seeing the moves in the process. Its precog, body reading and accelerated probability all bunched into one lovely moveset.
Gallery
As for the "blur" well, he dodges a ridiculous amount of gunfire and then blitzes the man firing and even surprises him with his speed.
Probably not fast enough.
He travels across the city to save his mother from a ploy that the Librarian had when in fact he knew Luther would go straight to her, though his bad men went to Petra.. the Librarian knew that Luther would then go straight to Petra leaving his mother open for grabs. Though there isnt a clear distance, he still travels fast enough to take into consideration that his mother was okay (for the time being) and would then haul to save Petra. AS for the Librarian,
He then makes his way into the house of Strodes and says hello to his mother and slaps Luthers' buddy, Pete, like a rag doll and standing less than 10 feet away, dodges a bullet inches close to his face.
As for his speed, hes fast enough to appear in one direction and pop up in another.
As for Jack the Ripper, Jack displays extensive speed feats that look like hes flowing in the wind and undetectable by the likes of Petra. Though shes only human.
Here he shows to run laps around Luther while Luther tries to tag him, but uses his speed and strength to get the upper hand on Jack, surprise him, and send him into the ground creating a crater. Something he would have no problem doing if "Cass was faster than him".. which shes not..
Luther has no problem in dealing with speed, especially when it excels the likes of his, but Cassandra has nothing to suggest shes as evasive and fast as Jack the Ripper, nor Luther.
Here Luther leaps across a mall opening and begins to fight against Jack and flies all round the mall in the process, beating the hell out of eachother. Cassandra is tough but she doesnt have the necessary needs to be able to tank his damage output
...yeah, and i bet those guys didn't needed 999 atempts to tagg Luther, did they?...the ones who need, are cannon-fodder, so down goes the 1000 moves ahead.
Ive already went over this. Did you just ignore it or?
he's fought people with the same exact attributes as he does, the moves ahead really dwindles down to who was better at the skill itself and becomes nullified; they see each others moves so it's like they're fighting normal. You didn't see Luther get hit by any humans so that comment wasn't necessary.
They see the same as he does, the react the same way as he does, some are faster, some are more skilled and some are stronger. Down goes the 1000 moves ahead? lmao. 1000 moves ahead vs 1000 moves ahead = 0, which is why they were fighting like two normal people; trading blows back and forth and being able to dodge duck dip dive and dodge their opponents. I dont understand why you dont get this, ive explained it easily enough that they see the damn same. They all have trained with the Hercules Method and all have the same abilities. Do you understand? Did you read the material? If you did, then you'd pretty much have a cookie handed right to you and save me the stress of pounding the keys on the keyboard for you to get that.
Can Cassandra body read? Yeah, very well. She can even tell when people make facial expressions about her hot bod.
Cassandra's Body-Reading, tells Cass everything that she needs to know about her opponents, including whatever they will do before they actually do it...she can even tell what Luther would be thinking/feeling just by looking at him:
Yeah. That would be telepathy if she could tell everything about her opponent, especially when she stated it was Superboy & the fact the he's not some Random dude who wears a mask with a deep grin and blood all over it. Luther isn't familiar and Luther anticipates her next 1000 moves, if shed be able to move of course. She wont be able to do anything to nullify his body reading or his precog.
More Pre Cog
More Reaction
Thats Binder trying to tranquilize him and he reacts to it, then throws the merc at him.
@bat_girl_cc: because anyone with an unbiased brain who has READ Luther Strode knows that some sometiming meta human like Cass is not even in the same ballpark as him. You are outgunned and clearly do not know Luther Strode. I thought you were trolling because after several people stated why she loses you kept going in utter disbelief that a bat character loses reminiscient of Batman fanboys. I Already debated in a similar Strode vs Cass thread and shut it down so I'm not biased. If Cass had a chance of winning I'd say so.
" Well. Given what you shared about Batgirl being metahuman with peak human statistic further concludes anything representing shes faster than Luther; because she's not. "
Her "raw-speed" is peak-human, but her agreggate-speed is meta-human...and she's faster than Luther by feats.
" Justin Jordan himself tweeted DIRECTLY AT ME stating that Luther is twice peak human in every aspect. (except for a few minor instances, but twitter and the writer doesn't do much against on panel feats representing a complete and different meaning and visual) but nonetheless, I keep his word. "
Agreed, feats > statements...Cass has better feats, and that's why she wins.
Cass can run a 4.2/40, throw a baseball at 100mph and break concrete of which is considered aggregated speed, which is why they thought she was metahuman, but she has metahuman resemblance with her peak human statistics. "
I've said it before, and i'm going to say it again...that scan, wasn't meant to be taken as a feat-evidence...but as a statement-evidence...that is obviously not her limit speed, because she has done much better than that.
" I wasnt pushing you, i wasnt doing anything but keeping my side of the argument while you were trying to tell me that just because theres the blur effect from the art, it completely means otherwise. Ill post accordingly. "
Nope, in the scan that i posted, Cass is clearly moving as a blur...there's nothing there that could suggest otherwise.
" As you can see, when the Librarian stated the "hyperbole", as much most love to call it, Luther wasn't able to see it because he wasn't experienced enough to take in those Strange talents of his. It took the fate of his dear mother for him to start seeing the thousand moves constantly happening at once to see where his target is going to be. Each and every single one of those holograms are particular movements that could possibly be made with a certain outcome to be determined while seeing the moves in the process. Its precog, body reading and accelerated probability all bunched into one lovely moveset. "
I don't know what you want me to tell you...you are telling me Luther Strode's abillities in detail, but what i want, is evidence/proof, that he can take on Cass, and the text above is not.
" As for the "blur" well, he dodges a ridiculous amount of gunfire and then blitzes the man firing and even surprises him with his speed. "
Cass has done stuff like that so many times...here's just some exemples:
I could go on...and on...and on...
" He travels across the city to save his mother from a ploy that the Librarian had when in fact he knew Luther would go straight to her, though his bad men went to Petra.. the Librarian knew that Luther would then go straight to Petra leaving his mother open for grabs. Though there isnt a clear distance, he still travels fast enough to take into consideration that his mother was okay (for the time being) and would then haul to save Petra. "
Very impressive, but unquantifiable.
" AS for the Librarian, He then makes his way into the house of Strodes and says hello to his mother and slaps Luthers' buddy, Pete, like a rag doll and standing less than 10 feet away, dodges a bullet inches close to his face. "
Very impressive, but Cass has done better than that:
In the scan above, you can see Cass dodging a sniper-bullet (they travel way faster, than bullets fired from regular hand-guns) she dodged it, while having her back turned to the shooter, and she only started moving out of the sniper-bullets way, when the projectil was just a few inches from her face! also, you can also see her doing the same thing as part of her training under David Cain's guidance, back when she was still a little child.
" As for his speed, hes fast enough to appear in one direction and pop up in another. "
Cass has done that, so many times...also, she has done better than that.
Here's one exemple, notice what she can do before the guy in the left side of the scan is able to react:
Also, here's one exemple, of Cass appearing in one direction, and poping up on another:
" As for Jack the Ripper, Jack displays extensive speed feats that look like hes flowing in the wind and undetectable by the likes of Petra. Though shes only human. "
Here's Cass, "flowing in the wind":
And here's Cass, taking out 50 people, who were beating up Robin (Tim Drake), and she toke them all out so fast, that Robin, didn't even noticed it:
" Here he shows to run laps around Luther while Luther tries to tag him, but uses his speed and strength to get the upper hand on Jack, surprise him, and send him into the ground creating a crater. Something he would have no problem doing if "Cass was faster than him".. which shes not... "
I'm yet to see anything, to put either Luther Strode or Jack, on pair with Cass in terms of speed.
" Luther has no problem in dealing with speed, especially when it excels the likes of his, but Cassandra has nothing to suggest shes as evasive and fast as Jack the Ripper, nor Luther. "
Actually, it's more like, the other way around...you see, speed-blitzing street-mooks, and performing aim-dodging, is impressive, but Cass has danced circles around people with that speed.
" Here Luther leaps across a mall opening and begins to fight against Jack and flies all round the mall in the process, beating the hell out of eachother. Cassandra is tough but she doesnt have the necessary needs to be able to tank his damage output. "
Wrong, again...
Cass has tanked explosions, at very close range.
Here's an exemple:
From right, to left:
Gallery
" Ive already went over this. Did you just ignore it or?. "
Nope, i've adressed this before.
" They see the same as he does, the react the same way as he does, some are faster, some are more skilled and some are stronger. Down goes the 1000 moves ahead? lmao. 1000 moves ahead vs 1000 moves ahead = 0, which is why they were fighting like two normal people; trading blows back and forth and being able to dodge duck dip dive and dodge their opponents. I dont understand why you dont get this, ive explained it easily enough that they see the damn same. They all have trained with the Hercules Method and all have the same abilities. Do you understand? Did you read the material? If you did, then you'd pretty much have a cookie handed right to you and save me the stress of pounding the keys on the keyboard for you to get that. "
I understand what you are saying, but you don't seem to understand what i'm saying...Luther Strode can see 1000 moves ahead, against normal people...Cass is not "normal people"...Jack, didn't needed 999 attempts to tagg him, did he?...that's because, Luther can be tagged by very fast and very skilled people, like Cass.
" Yeah. That would be telepathy if she could tell everything about her opponent, especially when she stated it was Superboy & the fact the he's not some Random dude who wears a mask with a deep grin and blood all over it. Luther isn't familiar and Luther anticipates her next 1000 moves, if shed be able to move of course. She wont be able to do anything to nullify his body reading or his precog. "
The fact that her abillity was created to work on humans, and she was still able to recognise a kryptonian, just by the way he moves, says alot...also, i've posted more than enough evidence on this thread, regarding her Body-Reading, just read what's stated on the scans.
@bat_girl_cc: you're reading scans out of context dude. Cassandra is peak human with meta human efficiency, I don't understand how you don't get or understand the differences I've stated.
@bat_girl_cc: because anyone with an unbiased brain who has READ Luther Strode knows that some sometiming meta human like Cass is not even in the same ballpark as him. You are outgunned and clearly do not know Luther Strode. I thought you were trolling because after several people stated why she loses you kept going in utter disbelief that a bat character loses reminiscient of Batman fanboys. I Already debated in a similar Strode vs Cass thread and shut it down so I'm not biased. If Cass had a chance of winning I'd say so.
Big lol, at all of this...
1) You clearly have no idea of who Cassandra Cain is, otherwise you wouldn't had said the non-sense, that you've said above.
2) You are clearly biased against the Bat-family, so your opinion should be questioned.
3) How did you shot it down?...by saying that Luther Strode wins, just because?...lol, because that's what you're doing here.
4) How would you know if Cass has a chance here, or not?...when you clearly have never read a comic-book with Cass in it?
@bat_girl_cc: you're reading scans out of context dude. Cassandra is peak human with meta human efficiency, I don't understand how you don't get or understand the differences I've stated.
No, i'm not, i've read all of her books, i'm just posting scans to help explain what i'm saying.
Cass is peak-human, by mere assumption, that's it...most of her feats, are flat-out meta-human.
The scan that i posted on which the scientist's stated that she doesn't hav ethe meta-gene, was for you to see 2 things:
1 - Cass has been rated as being meta on panel.
2- Cass is meta-human in speed.
You just toke that scan the wrong away, it wasn't meant to be used as a feat, but as a statement.
@bat_girl_cc: yknow if I went off feats of Luther Strode without Justin Jordan's tweets blocking my statements id be telling you (from Tradd Moores art) that Luther is near supersonic based off how he draws his characters and battles in between, but I'm not about that life. I know you've read her books, I've read almost close to every single one, I just need to get my next paycheck and those puppies will be in my library
I understand that. They were surprised she didn't have the gene, but given the only evidence stated on panel that she can infect do all those speed feats at once kinda means she's that fast. We're gonna keep going in circles about this lol might as well call them even because there was no clear statement of speed given in either comic, but by feats id still say they're equal (and Im done here cuz I foresee ugliness in the future in this thread)
@bat_girl_cc: yknow if I went off feats of Luther Strode without Justin Jordan's tweets blocking my statements id be telling you (from Tradd Moores art) that Luther is near supersonic based off how he draws his characters and battles in between, but I'm not about that life. I know you've read her books, I've read almost close to every single one, I just need to get my next paycheck and those puppies will be in my library
I understand that. They were surprised she didn't have the gene, but given the only evidence stated on panel that she can infect do all those speed feats at once kinda means she's that fast. We're gonna keep going in circles about this lol might as well call them even because there was no clear statement of speed given in either comic, but by feats id still say they're equal (and Im done here cuz I foresee ugliness in the future in this thread)
Agreed for the most part :) i would only like to point out, that being "super-sonic" is highly overrated in comics, because, if you're a bullet-timer, then, you are super-sonic, because bullets travel faster than the speed of sound.
" They see the same as he does, the react the same way as he does, some are faster, some are more skilled and some are stronger. Down goes the 1000 moves ahead? lmao. 1000 moves ahead vs 1000 moves ahead = 0, which is why they were fighting like two normal people; trading blows back and forth and being able to dodge duck dip dive and dodge their opponents. I dont understand why you dont get this, ive explained it easily enough that they see the damn same. They all have trained with the Hercules Method and all have the same abilities. Do you understand? Did you read the material? If you did, then you'd pretty much have a cookie handed right to you and save me the stress of pounding the keys on the keyboard for you to get that. "
I understand what you are saying, but you don't seem to understand what i'm saying...Luther Strode can see 1000 moves ahead, against normal people...Cass is not "normal people"...Jack, didn't needed 999 attempts to tagg him, did he?...that's because, Luther can be tagged by very fast and very skilled people, like Cass.
<<<<<<<<<< Wrong. Actually this "precog" and the body-reading ability of Cass will negate each other : "I can see you. You are just a man like me."
As you can see they hit each others and that's will happen in that fight.
@bat_girl_cc: agreed big time. Pretty much every comic character that has dodged bullets+ are supersonic reactors.. Which wouldn't make sense how they get hit but fists. But it's for the story and not the battles (for me at least)
@bat_girl_cc: agreed big time. Pretty much every comic character that has dodged bullets+ are supersonic reactors.. Which wouldn't make sense how they get hit but fists. But it's for the story and not the battles (for me at least)
" They see the same as he does, the react the same way as he does, some are faster, some are more skilled and some are stronger. Down goes the 1000 moves ahead? lmao. 1000 moves ahead vs 1000 moves ahead = 0, which is why they were fighting like two normal people; trading blows back and forth and being able to dodge duck dip dive and dodge their opponents. I dont understand why you dont get this, ive explained it easily enough that they see the damn same. They all have trained with the Hercules Method and all have the same abilities. Do you understand? Did you read the material? If you did, then you'd pretty much have a cookie handed right to you and save me the stress of pounding the keys on the keyboard for you to get that. "
I understand what you are saying, but you don't seem to understand what i'm saying...Luther Strode can see 1000 moves ahead, against normal people...Cass is not "normal people"...Jack, didn't needed 999 attempts to tagg him, did he?...that's because, Luther can be tagged by very fast and very skilled people, like Cass.
<<<<<<<<<< Wrong. Actually this "precog" and the body-reading ability of Cass will negate each other : "I can see you. You are just a man like me."
As you can see they hit each others and that's will happen in that fight.
1) Your scan, proves what i was saying early...Luther Strode can be tagged by very fast and very skilled people, just like Cass...Cass speed-blitzs common people all the time, and she also dances circles around people who are fast and skilled to a degree, and even low-level meta-humans...but when she fought Lady Shiva, she got tagged many times...the same goes for Luther Strode, the 1000 moves ahead, is for street-mooks, but when he's up against "someone of his league", its not so easy, though he still has a advantage over them, and the same goes for Cass...the scan that you posted, shows this very well...in your scan Luther got stomped, even though he landed some hits.
2) I never said that Cass would not be touched...nor did i said that Luther can't win...but it's fact, that feat-wise, Cass is faster...also, she could tank at least a few of his hits, "morals are on" in this thread, so neither would be going all out...i'd say, Cass takes it 6/10.
Actually he was beginning to understand his powers in that scan.
You conclude a bit early IMO.
- Fair Enough, but this thread is about a random encounter, so Luther would also be trying to figure Cass out, for the first time, so i'd say, that exemple still apply's.
- Not really, both have pre-cog, both are crazy fast, both can hit very hard, and both can take huge amonts of punishment...Luther Strode has a huge advantage, that doesn't apply here, (Healling-Factor), though, even with it, he could still be K.O'ed...also, Cass can also win, via nerve-strikes/pressure-points.
- In conclusion: they are fairly even, but Cass is a bit faster (feat-wise) imo, which would give her the majority here, in my opinion.
Luther takes a decent majority thanks largely to a similar precog and much better physical stats all around. Cass wins some off of superior skill and application of said skills.
1. I do have an idea of who she is but nothing I read convinced me should beat Strode without plot specific parameters.
2. I shut down the thread because another bat family fan boy couldn't believe their bat god lost and I posted sevreal scans...seriously look it up in the archives.
3. I'm not biased at all...I'll admit when Cass/Batman wins a fight but Strode is on a higher level Tham they are and Bat characters often lose in battles where they don't have plot protection working in their favor.
1. I do have an idea of who she is but nothing I read convinced me should beat Strode without plot specific parameters.
2. I shut down the thread because another bat family fan boy couldn't believe their bat god lost and I posted sevreal scans...seriously look it up in the archives.
3. I'm not biased at all...I'll admit when Cass/Batman wins a fight but Strode is on a higher level Tham they are and Bat characters often lose in battles where they don't have plot protection working in their favor.
" 1. I do have an idea of who she is but nothing I read convinced me should beat Strode without plot specific parameters. "
Hardly...based on what you said early...at best you've read the Batgirl Redemption mini-series, which is basically the only thing that you should ignore...i could explain you why she should win here in detail, but i can tell by your post's that you don't belive that she should be this good, so going further with this, is only going to result on you saying that her character does not make sense, and blah blah, stuff that i've heard on other threads, from people who doesn't like her, or Batman, or any other crazy good peak-humans...anyway, if you're willing to actually present an argument for Luther Strode on this thread, i will adress it.
" 2. I shut down the thread because another bat family fan boy couldn't believe their bat god lost and I posted sevreal scans...seriously look it up in the archives. "
Honestly, i have no idea, of what scans you could possibly post, to make this match look like a mismatch...Cass has the feats to, at the very least, keep up with Luther Strode on every category, and she's even faster than him, by feats.
" 3. I'm not biased at all...I'll admit when Cass/Batman wins a fight but Strode is on a higher level Tham they are and Bat characters often lose in battles where they don't have plot protection working in their favor. "
By statements, maybe...but feats > statements...and by feats:
Cass is faster...her pre-cog is equally usefull in combat, if not more usefull...she has a scary stricking-power...she can tank ridiculous amounts of punishment...and she is far more skilled than he is...so no, Luther is not "on a higher level" at least not in comparisson to Cass.
@iragexcudder won the thread for me with that long post, so I'm siding Luther
But i replyed to him, adressing everthing that he pointed out...Luther has literally nothing to put him above Cass in a fight, except his healling-factor, which he doesn't have here.
Cassandra is NOT faster than Luther Strode. She's human, peak human in speed if that but Luther has been nearly invisible to the human eye. He still has accelerated probability and moves much faster than Cassandra does, he wouldn't get hit once.
She can try to read his body all she wants but she'll never be able to react to him, especially when he's steps ahead of her steps
@jonez120: Just because Cass is "peak human" doesn't mean Luther is faster. Feat wise, she has a small speed advantage, having outpaced a bullet on panel and dodged sniper bullets after they are fired.
Cassandra is NOT faster than Luther Strode. She's human, peak human in speed if that but Luther has been nearly invisible to the human eye. He still has accelerated probability and moves much faster than Cassandra does, he wouldn't get hit once.
She can try to read his body all she wants but she'll never be able to react to him, especially when he's steps ahead of her steps
Definitely this. Cass isn't faster than Strode.
That is all wrong, and i already adressed it...i've posted scans from Cass performing speed-feats as impressive, if not more impressive than Strode's...just read through the thread...peak-human is just a label...by feats, she's faster than Strode, when Strode does stuff like, out-racing a bullet on panel, let me know:
@jonez120: Just because Cass is "peak human" doesn't mean Luther is faster. Feat wise, she has a small speed advantage, having outpaced a bullet on panel and dodged sniper bullets after they are fired.
@jonez120: Just because Cass is "peak human" doesn't mean Luther is faster. Feat wise, she has a small speed advantage, having outpaced a bullet on panel and dodged sniper bullets after they are fired.
This.
Luther can block bullets with his muscles, you can be sure that will prevent Cass to use her pressure points techniques.
@jonez120: Just because Cass is "peak human" doesn't mean Luther is faster. Feat wise, she has a small speed advantage, having outpaced a bullet on panel and dodged sniper bullets after they are fired.
This.
Luther can block bullets with his muscles, you can be sure that will prevent Cass to use her pressure points techniques.
Has she a durability on Luther's level ?
" Luther can block bullets with his muscles, you can be sure that will prevent Cass to use her pressure points techniques. "
Cass has punched through bullet-proof glass, so...
(In the same issue, David Cain stated that the prison-glass which Cass punched through, was bullet-proof)
" Has she a durability on Luther's level ? "
I think Luther's durabillity is higher than Cassandra's...but Cass can take at least a few of his hits, imo, specially here, where his morals are "on"
Cass has tanked explosions at very close range:
From right to left:
Gallery
On top of that, she is faster than him, and has a pre-cog, which is equally useful in combat as Luther's.
@bat_girl_cc: The thing that I want to point is that when you have a huge muscle mass : reaching the vital points is harder (or impossible) in most cases (that's zone where you can pinch nerves etc...). She can hit him at the obvious zones : eyes, groin, etc... but the other will not work imo, his body control and durability are too high for her (she is not Iron Fist nor Kenshiro Kasumi).
The punches and kicks of Luther instantly makes heads explodes and sever limbs : she has no superhuman durability so she will have the same destiny.
About the explosions : she is not at point blank on the pics, we don't know the power of the explosions. We don't know the exact power of the explosions. The damage caused is totally different of a superhuman punch which concentrate the power in a single point.
I'm pretty sure that the precog of Luther is superior : He can see a lot of moves, Batgirl can see the next move only.
Luther has body-control and a higher pain tolerance. He can continue to fight even evicerated.
He can turn every object in the surroundings into a fatal weapon (ranged or at close).
@bat_girl_cc: The thing that I want to point is that when you have a huge muscle mass : reaching the vital points is harder (or impossible) in most cases (that's zone where you can pinch nerves etc...). She can hit him at the obvious zones : eyes, groin, etc... but the other will not work imo, his body control and durability are too high for her (she is not Iron Fist nor Kenshiro Kasumi).
The punches and kicks of Luther instantly makes heads explodes and sever limbs : she has no superhuman durability so she will have the same destiny.
About the explosions : she is not at point blank on the pics, we don't know the power of the explosions. We don't know the exact power of the explosions. The damage caused is totally different of a superhuman punch which concentrate the power in a single point.
I'm pretty sure that the precog of Luther is superior : He can see a lot of moves, Batgirl can see the next move only.
Luther has body-control and a higher pain tolerance. He can continue to fight even evicerated.
He can turn every object in the surroundings into a fatal weapon (ranged or at close).
" The thing that I want to point is that when you have a huge muscle mass : reaching the vital points is harder (or impossible) in most cases (that's zone where you can pinch nerves etc...). She can hit him at the obvious zones : eyes, groin, etc... but the other will not work imo, his body control and durability are too high for her (she is not Iron Fist nor Kenshiro Kasumi). "
In comics, Nerve-Strikes/Pressure-Points are often used for 2 reasons...
1) You're fighting a friend, or someone really close from you that you don't want to seriously hurt...then you can use a nerve-strike, which will do the trick, and it only hurts your opponent as much as you want it to.
Here's an exemple:
Cass didn't wantted to seriously hurt Steph, only K.O her, so instead of punching her really hard, she used a special nerve-strike to K.O her, which didn't seriously damaged her.
2) (this case) sometimes your opponent is way too durable for you to put down, so you have to do something else, than just randomly punching him, or kicking him...you can also do it, in a way that doesn't include killing him.
Here's an exemple of Cass doing it to a meta-human:
She put that meta, down by using a pressure-point, which didn't seriously damaged him, but it did the trick.
Also, Cass has the stricking-power enough, to crush human skulls, and to K.O meta-humans:
" The punches and kicks of Luther instantly makes heads explodes and sever limbs : she has no superhuman durability so she will have the same destiny. "
I've posted scans of Cass tanking a explosion, so...plus, i don't think that Luther Strode would hit her that hard, with morals "on".
" About the explosions : she is not at point blank on the pics, we don't know the power of the explosions. We don't know the exact power of the explosions. The damage caused is totally different of a superhuman punch which concentrate the power in a single point. "
She's laid down on the floor...and the whole place exploded, throwing her nearly-uncounscious body into the water...it doesn't get much more "point-blank" than that...plus, i don't think that Luther Strode would just destroy her with his blows, did you missed the fact that he's "in character" here?
" I'm pretty sure that the precog of Luther is superior : He can see a lot of moves, Batgirl can see the next move only. "
She can see the next move, WAY before it actually happens:
So yeah...it's pretty mucg the same thing...also, as i've pointed out before, this kind of thing, is true, be we all know, that when Cass or Luther face a top dog, they won't be able to take a nap during the fight...Luther has been tagged several times, you even posted a scan on which he's being beaten up, and he was seeing his opponent's next moves on panel...the same goes for Cass, she has dodged the attacks of Red Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Deathstroke, etc, but she's not untouchable...Lady Shiva landed a ton of hits on her, during their fights...the thing is, their pre-cog's give them an advantage over their opponents, but they don't make them untouchable, just very very hard to hit...for exemple, if Luther Strode could see 1000 moves ahead against every opponent, then way everytime the Librarian wantted to tagg him, he did tagg him?
" Luther has body-control and a higher pain tolerance. He can continue to fight even evicerated. "
He's not the only one that can take alot of punishment...just take a look at the scans below.
From right, to left: (Cass get's shot multiple times, ignores the pain, and continues to run into the shooter's direction...the other scans, are about her fight against Mad-Dog, on which she keeps on fighting, even after being stabbed on her chest).
Gallery
"He can turn every object in the surroundings into a fatal weapon (ranged or at close)."
Cass is a master on the use of every known weapon, common or exotic:
So, Luther can try whatever he wants...he won't be able to surprise Cass...she has seen and faced worst than him, and won.
Luther doesn't have his healing factor, but the rest of his powers are intact.
1) I guess that her batsuit offer her some protection but that would be ineffective against Luther.
2) Contrary to what you said she never fought against a guy as dangerous as Luther.
3) The Librarian tagged Luther because he has the same powers and had years of training with it but Luther overpowered him. That shows that he learned in a very short time how to use his advantages.
4) The power of Luther is far above Cassadra. If both touch each other at the same time : Luther will be damaged, Cass' will die.
Luther doesn't have his healing factor, but the rest of his powers are intact.
1) I guess that her batsuit offer her some protection but that would be ineffective against Luther.
2) Contrary to what you said she never fought against a guy as dangerous as Luther.
3) The Librarian tagged Luther because he has the same powers and had years of training with it but Luther overpowered him. That shows that he learned in a very short time how to use his advantages.
4) The power of Luther is far above Cassadra. If both touch each other at the same time : Luther will be damaged, Cass' will die.
" Luther doesn't have his healing factor, but the rest of his powers are intact. "
They are not enough to beat Cass, maybe they are on paper, but feat-wise thei're not.
" I guess that her batsuit offer her some protection but that would be ineffective against Luther. "
The kevlar, gives her some protection, but she's tough enough to tank a few of his hits, even without it IMO.
Also, you're forgetting 2 very important things that i've pointed out:
1) Luther Strode is "in character" here, so likely, he won't hit Cass has hard as he can, and the same goes for Cass.
2) Did you missed my scans, of when Cass tanked a explosion at very close range?..or of when she tanked multiple sniper-shots, and kept running into the shooter's way?...or of when she kept fighting even after being stabbed on her chest?
"2) Contrary to what you said she never fought against a guy as dangerous as Luther."
Of course she has, she has fought Black-Wind, Deathstroke, Ravager, Supergirl, Bizarro-Supergirl, etc (the Bizarro-Supergirl fight, on which Cass straight up out-maneuvered her, is a little WIS, but still...)
" 3) The Librarian tagged Luther because he has the same powers and had years of training with it but Luther overpowered him. That shows that he learned in a very short time how to use his advantages. "
I'm not trying to downball Luther here, but the point is, his 1000 moves ahead thing, only works against people that are not on his level...the same goes for Cass, when hey face opponents with similar skills and abillities, those advantages don't come into play as much as they do most of the times...and this is valid for every single comic-book character...unless we're talking about the Presence who has no equal.
" 4) The power of Luther is far above Cassadra. If both touch each other at the same time : Luther will be damaged, Cass' will die. "
I'm not sure of that...
Take a look at the scans below, from right to left:
" Luther doesn't have his healing factor, but the rest of his powers are intact. "
They are not enough to beat Cass, maybe they are on paper, but feat-wise thei're not.
<<<< Ok so Cass have Superman's stats. First news.
" I guess that her batsuit offer her some protection but that would be ineffective against Luther. "
The kevlar, gives her some protection, but she's tough enough to tank a few of his hits, even without it IMO.
Also, you're forgetting 2 very important things that i've pointed out:
1) Luther Strode is "in character" here, so likely, he won't hit Cass has hard as he can, and the same goes for Cass.
<<<<<<<<< Luther Strode kills his ennemies in-character.
2) Did you missed my scans, of when Cass tanked a explosion at very close range?..or of when she tanked multiple sniper-shots, and kept running into the shooter's way?...or of when she kept fighting even after being stabbed on her chest?
<<<<<<<< I saw every scans. That wasn't sniper shots, the bullets are less powerful. With a regular snipe she had his legs crippled. Luther explode heads on contact and sever limbs : if I have the choice between being stabbed and hit but Luther I choose the knife, just my opinion.
"2) Contrary to what you said she never fought against a guy as dangerous as Luther."
Of course she has, she has fought Black-Wind, Deathstroke, Ravager, Supergirl, Bizarro-Supergirl, etc (the Bizarro-Supergirl fight, on which Cass straight up out-maneuvered her, is a little WIS, but still...)
<<<<<<<< Let's forget the plot device with Superman-level characters : idk about Black-wind but nor Deathstroke, nor Ravager displayed such a slaugtherfest in fights...
" 3) The Librarian tagged Luther because he has the same powers and had years of training with it but Luther overpowered him. That shows that he learned in a very short time how to use his advantages. "
I'm not trying to downball Luther here, but the point is, his 1000 moves ahead thing, only works against people that are not on his level...the same goes for Cass, when hey face opponents with similar skills and abillities, those advantages don't come into play as much as they do most of the times...and this is valid for every single comic-book character...unless we're talking about the Presence who has no equal.
<<<<<< As I said they will hit each other : fact is that Luther has more striking power and is more durable by a fair margin, and is pratically immune being hit to the vitals.
" 4) The power of Luther is far above Cassadra. If both touch each other at the same time : Luther will be damaged, Cass' will die. "
I'm not sure of that...
Take a look at the scans below, from right to left:
<<< I did :p Your turn :
Immune to the hits on the vitals even with a toxin
" Luther doesn't have his healing factor, but the rest of his powers are intact. "
They are not enough to beat Cass, maybe they are on paper, but feat-wise thei're not.
<<<< Ok so Cass have Superman's stats. First news.
" I guess that her batsuit offer her some protection but that would be ineffective against Luther. "
The kevlar, gives her some protection, but she's tough enough to tank a few of his hits, even without it IMO.
Also, you're forgetting 2 very important things that i've pointed out:
1) Luther Strode is "in character" here, so likely, he won't hit Cass has hard as he can, and the same goes for Cass.
<<<<<<<<< Luther Strode kills his ennemies in-character.
2) Did you missed my scans, of when Cass tanked a explosion at very close range?..or of when she tanked multiple sniper-shots, and kept running into the shooter's way?...or of when she kept fighting even after being stabbed on her chest?
<<<<<<<< I saw every scans. That wasn't sniper shots, the bullets are less powerful. With a regular snipe she had his legs crippled. Luther explode heads on contact and sever limbs : if I have the choice between being stabbed and hit but Luther I choose the knife, just my opinion.
"2) Contrary to what you said she never fought against a guy as dangerous as Luther."
Of course she has, she has fought Black-Wind, Deathstroke, Ravager, Supergirl, Bizarro-Supergirl, etc (the Bizarro-Supergirl fight, on which Cass straight up out-maneuvered her, is a little WIS, but still...)
<<<<<<<< Let's forget the plot device with Superman-level characters : idk about Black-wind but nor Deathstroke, nor Ravager displayed such a slaugtherfest in fights...
" 3) The Librarian tagged Luther because he has the same powers and had years of training with it but Luther overpowered him. That shows that he learned in a very short time how to use his advantages. "
I'm not trying to downball Luther here, but the point is, his 1000 moves ahead thing, only works against people that are not on his level...the same goes for Cass, when hey face opponents with similar skills and abillities, those advantages don't come into play as much as they do most of the times...and this is valid for every single comic-book character...unless we're talking about the Presence who has no equal.
<<<<<< As I said they will hit each other : fact is that Luther has more striking power and is more durable by a fair margin, and is pratically immune being hit to the vitals.
" 4) The power of Luther is far above Cassadra. If both touch each other at the same time : Luther will be damaged, Cass' will die. "
I'm not sure of that...
Take a look at the scans below, from right to left:
<<< I did :p Your turn :
Immune to the hits on the vitals even with a toxin
" <<<< Ok so Cass have Superman's stats. First news. "
What? who said that?...do you think that it takes Superman to beat Luther Strode? lol, you can't be serious...Luther is street-level, Superman is high-tier.
" <<<<<<<<< Luther Strode kills his ennemies in-character. "
Really? is that consistent though? he seems to have morals IMO, he tries to save people, etc.
" <<<<<<<< I saw every scans. That wasn't sniper shots, the bullets are less powerful. With a regular snipe she had his legs crippled. Luther explode heads on contact and sever limbs : if I have the choice between being stabbed and hit but Luther I choose the knife, just my opinion. "
Yeah, it was a sniper, and no, she shouldn't be crippled by bullets, she can tank them, no problem and it's consistent for her to do so:
First scan, Tim Drake is amazed a her durabillity and pain-tollerance...second scan, Cass tanking muliple gun-shots, without even flinching, and then proceeding to dodged all of them effortlessy, as part of her training with David Cain, back when she was still a little child.
" <<<<<<<< Let's forget the plot device with Superman-level characters : idk about Black-wind but nor Deathstroke, nor Ravager displayed such a slaugtherfest in fights... "
Deathstroke has done stuff like this to people:
Another exemple:
" <<<<<< As I said they will hit each other : fact is that Luther has more striking power and is more durable by a fair margin, and is pratically immune being hit to the vitals. "
Which one has more stricking power isn't really relevant, since both can kill the other with one hit, but they won't since they are in character here.
Luther Strode has no healling-factor here...plus Cass has used nerve-strikes/pressure-points on meta-human durable opponents...there's no reason to not work on Luther.
" <<< I did :p Your turn : "
Those scans are mostly about durabillity, and i already showed you a exemple, of Cass tanking a huge explosion at very close range...i already showed you Cass tanking bullets without even flinching...i already showed you Cass keeping up fighting, even after getting stabbed on her chest...i don't know what more evidence do you need.
" Immune to the hits on the vitals even with a toxin. "
Luther Strode has no healling-factor here, try again.
" <<<< Ok so Cass have Superman's stats. First news. "
What? who said that?...do you think that it takes Superman to beat Luther Strode? lol, you can't be serious...Luther is street-level, Superman is high-tier.
<<<<<<<<<<<< You didn't get the sarcasm. Np. ^^
" <<<<<<<<< Luther Strode kills his ennemies in-character. "
Really? is that consistent though? he seems to have morals IMO, he tries to save people, etc.
<<<<<<<<<< If Cass is an ennemy there is no reason for him to hold back.
" <<<<<<<< I saw every scans. That wasn't sniper shots, the bullets are less powerful. With a regular snipe she had his legs crippled. Luther explode heads on contact and sever limbs : if I have the choice between being stabbed and hit but Luther I choose the knife, just my opinion. "
Yeah, it was a sniper, and no, she shouldn't be crippled by bullets, she can tank them, no problem and it's consistent for her to do so:
First scan, Tim Drake is amazed a her durabillity and pain-tollerance...second scan, Cass tanking muliple gun-shots, without even flinching, and then proceeding to dodged all of them effortlessy, as part of her training with David Cain, back when she was still a little child.
<<<<<<<< I agree with the pain tolerance. I disagree with the durability the bullets goes through Cass and makes damages. The muscles of Luther stops the bullets. Anyway her pain tolerance his below Luther's. According to the size of the bullets that Robin takes out it's 9mm round : that don't comes from a Sniiper rifle.
" <<<<<<<< Let's forget the plot device with Superman-level characters : idk about Black-wind but nor Deathstroke, nor Ravager displayed such a slaugtherfest in fights... "
Deathstroke has done stuff like this to people:
Another exemple:
<<<<<<<<< Yes that's clean hits with a sword. Luther makes a total butchery of his opponents. And Kocheï is immortal, he only dies at the end because he wants it.
" <<<<<< As I said they will hit each other : fact is that Luther has more striking power and is more durable by a fair margin, and is pratically immune being hit to the vitals. "
Which one has more stricking power isn't really relevant, since both can kill the other with one hit, but they won't since they are in character here.
Luther Strode has no healling-factor here...plus Cass has used nerve-strikes/pressure-points on meta-human durable opponents...there's no reason to not work on Luther.
<<<<<<<<<<<<< Luther keeps his durability, striking power, enchanced senses, meat vision, precog and body control... And is superior in every area to cass. Even his ruthless fighting style is effective. His resistance is due to his body control and durability, not "healing factor".
" <<< I did :p Your turn : "
Those scans are mostly about durabillity, and i already showed you a exemple, of Cass tanking a huge explosion at very close range...i already showed you Cass tanking bullets without even flinching...i already showed you Cass keeping up fighting, even after getting stabbed on her chest...i don't know what more evidence do you need.
<<<<< Cass wasn't at point blank, have kevlar and we don't know the power of the explosion : in all picture I showed Luther is half-naked. He continues to fight after being striked to the vitals, shot at point blank range in the torso and with his guts out : nothing comparable with Cass, obviously.
" Immune to the hits on the vitals even with a toxin. "
Luther Strode has no healling-factor here, try again.
<<<<<<<<<< Again that's not an healing factor : Luther is not born with powers but has a perfect control of his body. Your argument is invalid.
" <<<<<<<<<<<< You didn't get the sarcasm. Np. ^^ "
Cassandra's feats are crazy-good, and that bothers alot of people, i know...
" <<<<<<<<<< If Cass is an ennemy there is no reason for him to hold back. "
What?...are you serious?...heros hold back all of the time! that's part of being a hero!...why do you think The Joker is still alive?...or Lex Luthor? or any of the others?..
The OP states "morals on" so yeah, if Luthor has morals, he will hold back...the same with Cass.
" <<<<<<<< I agree with the pain tolerance. I disagree with the durability the bullets goes through Cass and makes damages. The muscles of Luther stops the bullets. Anyway her pain tolerance his below Luther's. According to the size of the bullets that Robin takes out it's 9mm round : that don't comes from a Sniiper rifle. "
Your point is?...Cass can take hits from Luther and keep fighting, specially if he's not going all out, period!...and, if morals "were off" then Cass would most likely oneshot Luther, since Luthor has no healling-factor here, and she's faster than him, and her hits can K.O meta-humans, break through 3-inc-quartz, etc.
" <<<<<<<<< Yes that's clean hits with a sword. Luther makes a total butchery of his opponents. And Kocheï is immortal, he only dies at the end because he wants it. "
I just posted those scans to show you that Cass has fought opponents that are equally impressive, and they don't don't hold back!...anyway, that's completely irrelevant to this thread.
" <<<<<<<<<<<<< Luther keeps his durability, striking power, enchanced senses, meat vision, precog and body control... And is superior in every area to cass. Even his ruthless fighting style is effective. His resistance is due to his body control and durability, not "healing factor". "
I've already been through all of that with 2 other users on this thread...i'm not going to debate the exact same aspects all over again...just read through the thread...all of my arguments are there for everyone to see...
Cass is faster than Luther + her pre-cog > or = Luther's pre-cog + her stricking-power may not be greater than his, but it's more than enough to K.O him, IMO, specially here, where he has no healling-factor...and how is body-control going to help him here?...unless he's Slade's level of body-control, his body-control is not doing anything for him, here.
" <<<<< Cass wasn't at point blank, have kevlar and we don't know the power of the explosion : in all picture I showed Luther is half-naked. He continues to fight after being striked to the vitals, shot at point blank range in the torso and with his guts out : nothing comparable with Cass, obviously. "
Exactly, in most of the scans that you showed, Luther had been busted open...he's bleeding, and he looks like he's dying...have you ever seen Cass in that state? even after the explosion, her body was fine...the only time she was like that, was when she was stabbed on her chest, and even then, she kept fighting until she won the fight...so i see no advantage for Luther there.
" <<<<<<<<<< Again that's not an healing factor : Luther is not born with powers but has a perfect control of his body. Your argument is invalid. "
What has his body control to do, with him being meta-human durable?...also regenerating = healling-factor.
Also, i didn't understand what happened in those scans that you posted, what i'm i supposed to get from there?
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