Jack Reacher vs Black Widow

Whoever you vote for, please say the reason for your opinion.

Maybe Jack. Would need to look at the fight scenes again.

Widow...

@i_like_swords: Reasons?

I'll take Widow because of film versions and she's younger, quicker, and more skilled. In the books, I would say Jack since he is a damn man monster whom Lee Child's admitted to making the ultimate alpha male.

Yes, even in the comics Widow is a badass but I see a fight in the books like the short one she had with Punisher in Warzone. He would take her hits andand she would just dance around him until he eventually got in a lucky, solid punch.

But, going films, gotta take Widow. She has her enhancments from the Red Room, is strong enough to knock full grown men out cold with a few punches, and could always crawl and choke which is her go to move.

Jack is still stronger, but still I see Widow pulling a win. Even if she suffers a few broken ribs.

Widow IMO

Film to film she's faced threats (chitauri, groups of armed soldiers/mercenaries, the Ultron bots, Winter Soldier) that would pretty much oneshot Jack, whose premier feats are beating up thugs and the special forces guy. There's no room for comparison whatsoever.

Haven't read enough of book Reacher to comment on that but he didn't seem particularly out there as far as fictional characters go. He likely loses there too, even against film Widow.

@guardiandevil83: Jack Reacher is also strong enough to knock out fully grown men with a few cold punches, and with his bear hands he was able to beat multiple attackers I think you're kinda underestimating jack reacher big time, so here's a video of him taking on a couple of guys.

SKIP TO 2:27, THAT'S WHEN THE FIGHT STARTS.

@i_like_swords: You are referencing to fights in which she used weapons. Did you not read the rules? No referencing to fights in which weapons are used. Do you really think Black Widow would stand a chance against Ultron Bots if she had no weapons, or the winter soldier if she had no weapons? Pure H2H, no weapons what-so-ever. Widow vs Jack Reacher. State your opinion, and give your reason.

@hulk99: I know he's stronger. But those dudes were idiots and untrained. Natasha has been training since about nine, and he's still over forty. MCU Natasha is about 27 to 29, just as trained as he is if not more, and is far stronger than the average woman.

Not saying Jack couldn't beat her, I just think its a bit improbable.

@guardiandevil83: This is just my personal opinion, I don't think age plays a very big role in how good a fighter is. I personally believe that even if you're 60 years old, as long as you can stand on two feet and use both your hands without much effort, then you have the potential to be as good a fighter as anyone else. However, the only difference between a 60 year old and a 20 year old is that since 60 year olds are likely to have much less stamina, they can't do too much acrobats (in order to conserve their energy), and I don't think acrobats are necessary to be a good fighter. But as we both know, jack reacher isn't 60, he's around 40 years old.

If it were up to me, I'd give it a stalemate.

@hulk99: Yeah I was mostly getting at the fact he might gas out before she does. But a stalemate is more than likely giving Jack's strength and durability. He also uses a harder form of combat. Muay Thai elbow strikes and whatnot.

Widow would go for wrist locks, throws, and sweeping kicks. Widow would have to fight to seriously injure and not subdue if she wants the win.

Does she even have fights without gadgets?

@jayc1324: Her versus Clint.

Widow easily.

The feats don't suddenly become invalidated if she isn't using weapons, they still require an abundance of strength, speed and dexterity on her part to pull off. Give Reacher the same situations and weapons and he's toast. That, and she has feats without weapons so it's ultimately a moot point.

@monsterstomp: What h2h prowess has she really shown? Her only notable scenes was the hallway fight in Iron Man 2, even then she used gadgets. Her fighting those aliens isn't even that impressive either. She used equipment. The basic chitaru soldiers were basically fodder. Jack is a limb breaker and also fights dirty as well as uses his environment to his advantage. Not to mention he's a great tactician. All Widow has on him is speed imo.

@darthaznable: Jack Reacher's style is too realistic, which was the goal the director wanted to employ. Widow's style circles around her agility. Reacher has one street fight against four punks from the bar and a mercenary. Compared to the ease that Widow took out the Russian mobsters while she was strapped to a chair and Hawkeye, Widow still wins.

@i_like_swords: Actually, it's not a moot point. Weapons make a huge difference in how well a person fights. I understand that they still require a certain amount of dexterity, speed and abundence in strength, however, fighting with weapons is completely different than fighting with your bear hands because it requires a completely different kind of training. The reason to why Jack Reacher probably wouldn't be able to fight off Ultron Bots if he was given the same weapons is because Jack Reachers is not trained to use the weapons that black widow used. Therefore, the point is far from moot. Hence, the feats do become 100% invalidated since weapons are being used.

@hulk99: Hawkeye is an Avenger so he obviously had H2H training from SHIELD.

@mtuske: But nothing suggests that Hawkeye is incredibly good at fighting. We never saw him taking on multiple attackers in the same way that Jack Reacher or Black Widow did. Both Jack Reacher and Black Widow are damn good at fighting, but I still give Jack Reacher the upper hand since he seems to use a more brutal fighting style, and is physically stronger. I am still going for a stalemate though since they both seem pretty evenly skilled. As I said earlier, IMO 50% chance tie, 50% chance Jack Reacher stomps.

The standard for MU martial arts is higher than Reacherverse. Widow also just has better feats.

@hulk99: He might not even be stronger. It was implied she had Red Room training and all those girls were given a weaker version of Caps serum. They will probably get more into that later.

@jayc1324: when she was tied to the chair and when she fought Hawkeye.

@misterguyman Sorry but no. There is no official martial arts rating in the manner that you mentioned. Second of all, Widow actually doesn't have that many H2H feats that suggest she can take on someone like Jack Reacher. Jack Reacher is not only physically stronger, but seems to have a more brutal fighting style. Once again, IMO 50% chance tie, 50% chance Jack Reacher stomps.

@mtuske I am talking about physical strength, and trust me when I say this, no one had ever said anything about anyone in the red room recieving any version of caps serum. They were just well trained agents.

@hulk99: You're wrong. The show Agent Carter gets into the whole Red Room and 1 of the little girls took out half of Caps Howling commandoes and yes they were enhanced with a serum.

@allstarsuperman: As I already said, her ability to take out a bunch of featless russian mobsters while strapped to a chair requires a different type of training from fighting without any restraints. Not only does Hawkeye lack any feats which suggest that he is a very good fighter, but he also gave Widow a run for her money. It wasn't easy for her to take him down.

@mtuske: They actually weren't.

@monsterstomp: Jack isn't those Russian mob guys. Clint has no feats minus the fight. Plus being mind controlled most likely didn't help.

Hulk99 mentioned you in a comment.

@monsterstomp: The mobsters black widow stomped didn't have any feats which suggests that they are very talented fighters, and neither does Hawkeye. So I don't see how your argument shows that black widow would come victorious out of this fight. This is a very close one, but I call for a stalemate. Though it's most likely that Black Widow would get stomped since Jack Reacher has a much more brutal fighting style. In addition, being able to fight while strapped to a chair requires a different type of training, therefore it cannot be used as a measuring stick to prove that black widow could beat Jack Reacher if they were both completely free of any restraints. IMO 50% chance stalemate and 50% change Jack Reacher stomps black widow.

Not sure why you deleted this.

1. The punks Reacher faced had no feats either. The difference between Widow defeating the mobsters is that she was strapped to a chair and seemed to have done it easier. Charlie didn't have feats either.

2. Widow is victorious because she performed better on an apples to apples comparison. Her fighting style is a lot more unorthodox, whereas Reacher's is too realistic. Nothing about Jack's style struck me as being more brutal, to be honest.

3. You can't dismiss Widow's showing against the Russian mobsters simply because "it requires a different type of training". She was simply skilled enough to replicate what Reacher did, except strapped to a chair.

4. 50% chance its a stalemate and 50% chance Jack stomps? That makes no sense.

Not saying he is, I was comparing feats, in which Widow performed much better. Jack will be a little harder, but I don't see what he can do to Widow that she isn't skilled enough to overcome.

@monsterstomp:

It was an accidental deletion.

1. I've already explained to you that fighting someone while strapped to a chair requires a completely different training style than fighting someone while free of restraints, hence it cannot be used as a measuring stick to prove that Black Widow > Jack Reacher.

2. Nothing suggested that she performed better on apples to apples. If you look at Jack Reachers fighting style he seems to use Muay Thai elbow strikes and whatnot, while Widow goes for wrist locks, throws, as well as sweeping kicks. Her fighting style seems much less brutal than Jack's.

3. I most certainly can dismiss her fight with the mobsters since it requires a different type of training. When it requires a different type of training, it's a different type of fight. Hence her ability to fight people while strapped to a chair means nothing in a fight in which no one is restrained.

4. I've explained why it does make sense.

The majority of people voting for Black Widow's victory is either due to a lack of knowledge on Jack Reacher or bias.

@hulk99:

1. If Widow can stomp a group of men while strapped to a chair greatly hindered, I don't see how she'd be worse without being hindered.

2. Jack's style isn't influenced by Muay Thai.

3. No you can't.

4. It doesn't.

@monsterstomp:

1. If you're trained to stomp people while being strapped to a chair, then you'd need a totally different training style that'd be completely different from fighting without restraints.

2. Jack's style is influenced by muay thai.

3. Yes you can.

4. It does.

@hulk99: Lol. Widow wins. Deal with it.

@monsterstomp: This debate will not continue until you behave like an adult.

Widow has better feats. She beat those Russian mobsters with a ridiculous disadvantage of being tied up. No one *trains* to fight tied up to a char as far as I'm aware. It just shows how much her skill grossly outmatches her opponents. Reacher has feats too but his feats are in a straight up fight. He fights that one Spec Ops guy at the end. Widow fights Hawkeye. That's arguably a draw but I'd give it to Widow personally.

Widow also survived a strike from Hulk.

@misterguyman: She did not survive a strike from Hulk, I hate when people try to use that crap. His hand brushed against her. That is it. He didn't slap her, he didn't punch her, he didn't strike her.

@hulk99: Actually Monster is right. Jack did Keysi in the film. That was my bad.

Sounds good... and that's still stronger than Reacher.

Black Widow decapitates Jack

@misterguyman: No its not. Simply being touched by the Hulk is not a feat.

LMFAO.

"Today, class, we're going to talk about the martial art Sit-Fu; the art of fighting while tied to a chair. Disregard anything potentially useful from this training session that could translate into unarmed combat; focus solely on the chair. You need not become a master martial artist with a good chair at your back."

Jack Reacher was never hit by some one so hard they flew through the air. Black Widow has.

Jack Reacher wins if you're using his novel version vs comic Black Widow. If you're comparing film to film, then Black Widow wins pretty easily imo.

I pick Widow because I don't buy this idea that Reacher is in that good of shape or that good of a h2h fighter based on what we know of him which seems to be that he was something like an army mp for a bunch of years and now has just been going around like a wanderer for 10 years doing random ****. He is in his 40's I think and I highly doubt even in close to peak human condition while Widow is a trained assassin in peak female condition with close to peak human reflexes. She is too fast and too highly trained for him to touch. She would land some blows to take out his knees before he even knew what hit him and then incapacitate or kill him from there. Fight lasts under 1 min imo. She is a trained killing machine. He is just a big ex army guy with some h2h training who is also middle aged.

Hell no. I'm only 22. Eff dat.

@monsterstomp: If you're not going to at least act mature, then this debate ends here.