Helspont vs Blue Marvel

A. He is able to pierce The Void's throat in one hit. Thor is nothing.

B. You didn't get the point : That's the presence of anti-matter that weakens The Sentry. Blue Marvel is a matter / anti-matter living reactor and the Earth was surrounded by Anti-Matter Tempest during the whole comics.

C.You are wrong. Sentry was the one who was the last man standing. He is the winner here.

D. Wrong. Bob lowered his durability to let Thor "kill" him. He had any other way to survive the encounter. The "What if 200" shows what would have happened if Bob had no mental breakdown : he killed all life on Earth and one-shotted Thor in the movement. By the way the writers words back up mines.

We are talking about two entirely different events... I'm talking about Superman 08

@darkraiden: Helspont is also Majestic-level who would kill Blue Marvel

@realitywarper: Bob wasn't holding back against Blue Marvel, and was told to take him down, which is why he bull-rushed him punching him multiple times after he has already been ambushed while holding back against the Avengers, and after 1 shotting

Him temporarily KO'ing the Sentry into orbit, to then after fighting the rest of the Avengers, get bull-rushed a 2nd time from the Sentry, to then collapse with the Sentry about to collapse; but the Avengers caught him.

@highaccuser: Lol you are hilarious, King Hyperion and the Sentry are defientley above Supergirl, read a comic on them; or try actually absorbing the things in debates.

Blue Marvel and Helspont both have a good shot, and if it were not for Helspont getting hyped for beating Superman and Blue Marvel getting lowballed by Dc fans, who are to blind to not see him as a rip-off; it is actually quite close.

Both can BFR, Blue Marvel has force-fields, can control Anti-Matter and light on the Quark level; it's close and can go either way IMO despite Dc fans not seeing the other side and saying Blue Marvel has no feats however here lack of feats are not being talked about...

Feats? More specifically from Sentry that isn't either voiding out of super sane.

Blue Marvel would lose to Supergirl more often than not because he hasn't beaten anyone stronger than her and isn't stronger than him by feats.

A. Void is him. That's not a good feat. It's already proven he can't oneshot the likes of Thor

B. I'd need proof. Nothing of the sort was stated by Sentry during that fight.

C. No, BM won. Sentry won round 2 with the Avengers on his side. The initial 1v1 bout was won by BM as he was still standing and could fight other opponents, while Sentry was KO'd.

D. That's speculated. It wasn't actually stated that he lowered his durability. What if's are never even close to canon and to try to use them is laughable.

@darkraiden: how is blue marvel more powerful than sentry when Bob has pretty much ended the fight in 3 hits? Adam was on the ground and was winded, if Bob wanted to he couldve kept pounding and ended the fight there and then. If he didn't decide to start talking (as is custom with everyone that blue marvel fights) adam wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him. That isn't even debatable. Sentey was portrayed as more powerful than blue marvel in that exchange.

Bendis said he did.

There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away. I just didn't want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, "Boy, if he didn't want us to kill him, we couldn't have killed him." I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn't give a shit how it happened

Sentry lost the fight against Blue Marvel. A KO is a loss. and if BM wasn't distracted by the other avengers then Sentry wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him from space.

@highaccuser: Sentry is well above her, not even debatable, please check a respect thread, because I have tried getting it across; the scans might help.

Blue Marvel matching the Sentry, beating King Hyperion, who is clearly above Gladiator level; and having his ups and down with Anti-Matter easily put him on her level; and he would beat her.

It's very debatable. If you think otherwise you've ignored evidence against his feats.

King Hyperion isn't even close to Gladiator level. Just vaugely matching someone once doesn't actually make you anywhere near as strong as them. Pre-New 52 versions of Power Girl and Wonder Woman fought evenly but everything points to Wonder Woman being superior.

I'm sorry thought this was Blue Marvel v. Helspont thread, didn't know Sentry would dominate it as usual.

Anyway Helspont wins and for BM fans just announced:

Today, we have a lot of Marvel news coming through about their All-New All-Different Marvel relaunch in October.

It’s a rule. The Ultimates series has to be written by a Brit to be successful.

And now it will again, with Al Ewing writing and Kenneth Rocafort snatched from DC Comics to draw the book.

But don’t be looking for Ultimate Universe characters… we have Black Panther, Blue Marvel, Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau, Ms America Chavez and Galactus.

Hmmm. A clever way to rebrand Mighty Avengers? Could be…

The tagline? “Ultimate problems need ultimate solutions.”

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/06/29/the-ultimates-is-back-with-al-ewing-and-kenneth-rocafort-marveloctober/

I'm loving it.Blue Marvel sounds like he's on Thanos level.If he could be Sentry who beat MM,then he's a beast.

@highaccuser: lol do you even read comics, with characters you talk about.

712 Hyperion matched Gladiator, King Hyperion while holding back was manhandiling 712 Hyperion and another Hyperion.

King Hyperion>Gladiator.

@kingant27: What!?

Following your logic, Supergirl=Power Girl=Wonder Woman based on them all fighting evenly at one point even though every other feat and instance points to Wonder Woman being superior by a large margin. Just fighting a character isn't enough to sustain an argument for their strength level.

I know, right?

Sentry=>Blue Marvel>>Molecule Man.

The logix is undeniable.

Yep, ABC logic has been proven to work 100%. This emperor guy is on to something.

A. Sentry was the separate entity. It's basically the same thing when Mad Jim Jaspers created The Fury in that case. It's already proven that he can.

B. Simple :

C. BM was down for good.

D.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26287

In this scene, Thor finally ends the threat of the Void AKA Bob Reynolds by killing him. It seems like when you consider the Void's power level, the only way this could have happened was because the Void wanted to die.

I see there is a lot of online speculation about that, and I thought it was pretty clear. I don't like to over analyze these things. I prefer the work to speak for itself, but I'll put two things out there.

I think we've all met crazy people in our lives, and I think you learn pretty quickly that when you're dealing with a crazy person, you can't trust what they're saying to be true. Just because the Sentry/The Void announced that he had the power of the Molecule Man, it doesn't mean that he actually did. He just thought that he did. He was a crazy person and maybe a drug addict, as the character's creator, Paul Jenkins, put out there. So not everything he was saying wasn't necessarily true. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I know that's difficult for some people, because when they read a story, they don't want to feel like they're being fucked with. That character, though, was not in control of himself. There wasn't one second throughout the run of "Dark Avengers" where he was in control of himself.

Number two, yes, Bob realized that things had gone as far as they could possibly go. There was no other end for him and without his cooperation he doesn't go away. I just didn't want to have a line in the script where someone like Spider-Woman goes, "Boy, if he didn't want us to kill him, we couldn't have killed him." I see a lot of people got it, though, or they were just so happy to see the Sentry die they didn't give a shit how it happened [Laughs].

He was holding back :

Sentry : "Now stay down before I really get ticked off"

And he was weakened too :

We knows that he is weakened in the Negative Zone :

The attack from Anti-Man opened a rift in the Negative Zone :

Gallery

1) The operture in the Negative Zone is growing wider.

2) Iron Man say that the presence of Anti-Man opened a rift in the Negative Zone and that it's spilling in our universe.

The characters said severals time that there was a planetary anti-matter storm.

Conclusion :

Sentry was holding back against Blue Marvel.

Sentry was weakened by the rift opened in the Negative Zone.

@highaccuser: It is a good logic for this scenario, unless you can't acknowledge that.

712 Hyperion was even with Gladiator, Heat vision, speed, strength etc.

King Hyperion while at a disadvantage overpowered 712 Hyperion's heat vision, while laughing, manhandled physically them both, showing there stats were nothing, to the point where even the both of them required additional help.

Not just beating, but showing there superiority is how you determine who is more powerful just like how people know how Galactus would beat Superman etc.

@realitywarper: You claim that Sentry was holding back and weakened against Blue Marvel, however Blue Marvel was not only holding back and got bull-rushed first and he was fighting the other Avengers going all out while he was holding back.

Conclusion:

Blue Marvel was holding back, and fighting the other Avengers before the Sentry, and just after he temporarily KO'd the Sentry, he was also fighting of the Avengers; while again he was bull-rushed...

Yep.

But Sentry was weakened to the point he couldn't fight simple humans when he was inside the Negative Zone.

It seems that opening the rift was pretty efficient against him in that comics.

@realitywarper: Yes, however he wasn't in the Negative Zone, and while the storms were getting stronger, he was unleashing his power and got the head start on him throughout the fight, while Blue Marvel was dealing with the rest of the Avengers as well.

I still don't understand how getting beat up by a guy who's still holding back and is simultaneously weakened makes you more powerful than them purely because you landed an effective sucker punch. I mean, hulk and thor have had fights that have gone on for pages, yet they have both outright oneshotted, two shotted or three shotted each other with sucker punches before, multiple times even. Taking hits when your not ready for them can greatly reduce your durability. Boxers can land over a 100 punches, yet I can almost guarantee you that if one was forced to stand there whilst the other got to take off his glove and wind up their best shot it'd be lights out.

Yeah and Anti-Man and Blue Marvel are made of pure anti-matter :

Gallery

1) Adam said that he is a stable anti-matter reactor and Anti-Man an instable one.

2) The anti-matter storms covered the whole planet.

Thank you.

Yeah no. He didn't actually damage them significantly with his punches. No superiority was shown.

@terry2012: Nice I Hope Blue Marvel gets to show more of his powers. I like this character. I think he has tons of potential.

I feel the same way.

@highaccuser: lol that's because he was holding back, and didn't start getting slightly serious until the Avengers attacked him a bit; and then the Sentry bull-rushed him.

He also had beat Anti-Man prior, who took on a superior Avengerd line-up; including the Sentry.

@realitywarper: There personal Anti-Matter didn't make him, powerless, as he wouldn't have been able to dive-bomb from space etc; also he wasn't fighting fine.

Hellspont

It obviously weakened him.

I showed to you some evidence.

I agree that he wasn't powerless, otherwise he couldn't have beat BM.

WTF Helspont crushes BM....

@realitywarper: Not enough, he seemed to be operating fine, and he still had so many cheap shots and bull-rushes on him.

He didn't really beat Blue Marvel:

Blue Marvel while holding back was being attacked by the Avengers, to then get bull-rushed by the Sentry, for then the Sentry to get temporarily KO'd into orbit, with him again fighting of the Avengers, to then get dive-bombed; with Blue Marvel falling with the Sentry falling but being caught by the Avengers.

Both times the Sentry ambushed him, while both time Blue Marvel was already dealing with the rest of the Avengers...

Not enough, he seemed to be operating fine, and he still had so many cheap shots and bull-rushes on him.

He was weakened but still above Blue Marvel. You can't deny that he wasn't I showed to you several proof that the antimatter of the Negative Zone weakened him.

Then Sentry face two antimatter beings and one is a rift to the Negative Zone and engulf the whole Earth with antimatter storms.

The whole context is against The Sentry.

He didn't really beat Blue Marvel:

He beat him two times.

Blue Marvel while holding back was being attacked by the Avengers, to then get bull-rushed by the Sentry, for then the Sentry to get temporarily KO'd into orbit, with him again fighting of the Avengers, to then get dive-bombed; with Blue Marvel falling with the Sentry falling but being caught by the Avengers.

He was hit by the team and couldn't react but well he tanked the attacks fine.

Sentry got only one cheap shot before tackling BM.

Then BM struck back and hurt Bob.

Sentry hit him several times too and put BM down.

Bob tells BM to stop fighting before he really gets tickled and BM hit him even he lowered his guard.

Then Sentry is briefly KOed, dive-bomb BM and stun him for good.

Both times the Sentry ambushed him, while both time Blue Marvel was already dealing with the rest of the Avengers...

Fact is that he struggled against the team.

The second time when Sentry dive-bomb him BM has quasi get rid of Iron Man, WM and Ares in two punches.

The team is quasi useless against a superman-level character.

Wonder Man is the second heavy hitter and he is nowhere near Thor or BM striking-class.

That's funny cause I see Majestic as below Marvel by a longshot.

He literally KO'd him without using anti-matter (which is shown to amp him significantly in his fight with King Hyperion). Sentry and Marvel were talking the entire fight, it wasn't a sucker punch. Sentry was portrayed as even or worse than Marvel due to being oneshotted and literally out cold.

BM is a being a living antimatter.

Yes and no. Him just existing and him using it to amp himself are two different things. As seen in King Hyperion fight. He didn't use such an amp against Sentry and still OHKO'd him.

Oh my God....

I)

He is a living anti-matter energy containment unit...

II) Previous to the fight against the Avengers Anti-Man appears :

Gallery

1) Anti-Man comes previous to the fight.

2) His presence opens a rift in the Negative Zone.

3) There is antimatter storms all over the planet...

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@thedailybagel said:

@darkraiden: how is blue marvel more powerful than sentry when Bob has pretty much ended the fight in 3 hits? Adam was on the ground and was winded, if Bob wanted to he couldve kept pounding and ended the fight there and then. If he didn't decide to start talking (as is custom with everyone that blue marvel fights) adam wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him. That isn't even debatable. Sentey was portrayed as more powerful than blue marvel in that exchange.

He literally KO'd him without using anti-matter (which is shown to amp him significantly in his fight with King Hyperion). Sentry and Marvel were talking the entire fight, it wasn't a sucker punch. Sentry was portrayed as even or worse than Marvel due to being oneshotted and literally out cold.

BM is a being a living antimatter.

Yes and no. Him just existing and him using it to amp himself are two different things. As seen in King Hyperion fight. He didn't use such an amp against Sentry and still OHKO'd him.

Oh my God....

I)

He is a living anti-matter energy containment unit...

II) Previous to the fight against the Avengers Anti-Man appears :

Gallery

1) Anti-Man comes previous to the fight.

2) His presence opens a rift in the Negative Zone.

3) There is antimatter storms all over the planet...

Those are literally irrelevant to what I posted. I said that Blue Marvel didn't amp his punches. That's it. anti-Man, rifts, and storms don't address that.

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@thedailybagel said:

@darkraiden: how is blue marvel more powerful than sentry when Bob has pretty much ended the fight in 3 hits? Adam was on the ground and was winded, if Bob wanted to he couldve kept pounding and ended the fight there and then. If he didn't decide to start talking (as is custom with everyone that blue marvel fights) adam wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him. That isn't even debatable. Sentey was portrayed as more powerful than blue marvel in that exchange.

He literally KO'd him without using anti-matter (which is shown to amp him significantly in his fight with King Hyperion). Sentry and Marvel were talking the entire fight, it wasn't a sucker punch. Sentry was portrayed as even or worse than Marvel due to being oneshotted and literally out cold.

BM is a being a living antimatter.

Yes and no. Him just existing and him using it to amp himself are two different things. As seen in King Hyperion fight. He didn't use such an amp against Sentry and still OHKO'd him.

Oh my God....

I)

He is a living anti-matter energy containment unit...

II) Previous to the fight against the Avengers Anti-Man appears :

Gallery

1) Anti-Man comes previous to the fight.

2) His presence opens a rift in the Negative Zone.

3) There is antimatter storms all over the planet...

Those are literally irrelevant to what I posted. I said that Blue Marvel didn't amp his punches. That's it. anti-Man, rifts, and storms don't address that.

This adress that he fought against a Sentry weakened by the Negative Energies coming from the Negative Zone.

@darkraiden: Majestic would literally toss Marvel like a rag doll. He is stronger, faster, more skilled and more durable he murders

Your welcome

@earthsmightiest said:

Your welcome

Very exciting! I'd love to see Kevin Grevioux back penning BM, however Al Ewing does a good job too.

@green_skaar said:

@earthsmightiest said:

Your welcome

Very exciting! I'd love to see Kevin Grevioux back penning BM, however Al Ewing does a good job too.

GWAH !

+1

I've been caught, an Appolo don't say "GWAH !" !

>_<

No he's not. He's only faster maybe. Blue Marvel eclipses him everywhere else.

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@thedailybagel said:

@darkraiden: how is blue marvel more powerful than sentry when Bob has pretty much ended the fight in 3 hits? Adam was on the ground and was winded, if Bob wanted to he couldve kept pounding and ended the fight there and then. If he didn't decide to start talking (as is custom with everyone that blue marvel fights) adam wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him. That isn't even debatable. Sentey was portrayed as more powerful than blue marvel in that exchange.

He literally KO'd him without using anti-matter (which is shown to amp him significantly in his fight with King Hyperion). Sentry and Marvel were talking the entire fight, it wasn't a sucker punch. Sentry was portrayed as even or worse than Marvel due to being oneshotted and literally out cold.

BM is a being a living antimatter.

Yes and no. Him just existing and him using it to amp himself are two different things. As seen in King Hyperion fight. He didn't use such an amp against Sentry and still OHKO'd him.

Oh my God....

I)

He is a living anti-matter energy containment unit...

II) Previous to the fight against the Avengers Anti-Man appears :

Gallery

1) Anti-Man comes previous to the fight.

2) His presence opens a rift in the Negative Zone.

3) There is antimatter storms all over the planet...

Those are literally irrelevant to what I posted. I said that Blue Marvel didn't amp his punches. That's it. anti-Man, rifts, and storms don't address that.

This adress that he fought against a Sentry weakened by the Negative Energies coming from the Negative Zone.

Nah he would've said something like he did last time. Sentry showed no signs of being weaker and no one commented on it.

@darkraiden said:

@trionace said:

@darkraiden: Majestic would literally toss Marvel like a rag doll. He is stronger, faster, more skilled and more durable he murders

No he's not. He's only faster maybe. Blue Marvel eclipses him everywhere else.

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@realitywarper said:

@darkraiden said:

@thedailybagel said:

@darkraiden: how is blue marvel more powerful than sentry when Bob has pretty much ended the fight in 3 hits? Adam was on the ground and was winded, if Bob wanted to he couldve kept pounding and ended the fight there and then. If he didn't decide to start talking (as is custom with everyone that blue marvel fights) adam wouldn't have been able to sucker punch him. That isn't even debatable. Sentey was portrayed as more powerful than blue marvel in that exchange.

He literally KO'd him without using anti-matter (which is shown to amp him significantly in his fight with King Hyperion). Sentry and Marvel were talking the entire fight, it wasn't a sucker punch. Sentry was portrayed as even or worse than Marvel due to being oneshotted and literally out cold.

BM is a being a living antimatter.

Yes and no. Him just existing and him using it to amp himself are two different things. As seen in King Hyperion fight. He didn't use such an amp against Sentry and still OHKO'd him.

Oh my God....

I)

He is a living anti-matter energy containment unit...

II) Previous to the fight against the Avengers Anti-Man appears :

Gallery

1) Anti-Man comes previous to the fight.

2) His presence opens a rift in the Negative Zone.

3) There is antimatter storms all over the planet...

Those are literally irrelevant to what I posted. I said that Blue Marvel didn't amp his punches. That's it. anti-Man, rifts, and storms don't address that.

This adress that he fought against a Sentry weakened by the Negative Energies coming from the Negative Zone.

Nah he would've said something like he did last time. Sentry showed no signs of being weaker and no one commented on it.

Do you need someone to held your hand and help you crossing the road when you already know to do it ???

Same thing here.

We knows since the second miniserie that Sentry is weakened by the antimatter when he is in the Negative Zone and I already showed you the scans and linked the explanations.

He showed signs of being weaker as he looked exhausted at the end of the fight against Blue Marvel.