Gym Leader Challenge: Dante vs Bayonetta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since the Img tool seems to not be working all too well when it comes to the posting of images, I went with a more different and interesting approach, this video serves as the introduction.

GYM Leader

Dante as represented by NeonGameWave

Challenger

Bayonetta as represented by cpt_nice

Rules/Conditions:

• Morals On
• Bloodlust Off
• No prep
• There is no prior knowledge
• Dante is the DMC2 version and is composite
• Bayonetta is from Bayonetta 2 and is composite
• Win is by Death/K.O

Fight takes place here.

OVERALL GYM RULES:

• Must have a post count of over 300, have been here for over 3 months, or have debated in at least one tourney/CaV before to vote.
• Voters must have actually read the debate to vote, if I see what I regard as bias, I'll discount the vote.
• Please give reasons because of the debate, not who you think would win.
• Voting occurs in one of two ways, with the Challenger choosing either:
  1. The first to 10 votes.
  2. The most votes within five days

• Both debaters have 60 hours (2 Days, 12 Hours) to respond to a post, before forfeiting.
• The battle is limited to an opener, two rounds and a closer.

If the challenger wins they will earn the Gamer Goer Badge!!!!

If you want to take me on, sign up and prepare here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/comic-vine-gym-hq-1749371/?messageId=15845280#js-message-24

@cpt_nice

Do you like it?

Dam this fight is cool T4V

Damm! I was too late challenge you! But oh well there's always next time. This is going to be glorious

T4V.

T4V

@neongamewave: Looks great, I will have my opener ready tonight or tomorrow.

T4V

T4V

T4V

@neongamewave: Alrighty, here we go. Let's start out easy.

"Are you ready for this, Cheshire?"

Bio

Bayonetta (born Cereza) is the child of a forbidden romance between the Umbra Witch Rosa and the Lumen Sage Father Balder. As a war between the two clans left both sides devastated, she was believed to be (one of) the only survivor(s). After being sealed away for over 500 years, she was awoken from her slumber and swore to find out the truth of what happened to her kin. She has a unprecedented talent for the Bullet Arts and is the bearer of the Left Eye, that oversees the darkness.

For more info on her, check http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/Bayonetta_(character)

Feats

Here I will give a general description of what Bayonetta is capable of, with a few feats to strengthen my point. As our debate progresses, I will bring on more feats.

Strength

While the Umbra Witch may look innocent, she is anything but a pushover. She has the brute strength to hang with angels and demons hundreds of times her size and stomp them without breaking a sweat. Although she is never seen flat-out lifting heavy objects, she is easily in the 100 ton range, if not a lot a lot higher, and she outclasses Dante by several magnitudes. And let's not forget, this lady packs quite punch. By the second game her own strikes are measured in the hundreds of gigantons, while in game 1 only her summons got this high up. How ridiculously high is this in terms of striking force? Let's keep that for later. For now, some feats:

* Casually headbutts an entire skyscraper

* Throws a gigantic satellite back at a boss with barely any strain on her part

Durability

This is arguably Bayonetta’s weakest area. Although she is by no means a glass cannon, her feats in this regard are not quite as ridiculous. Still, she tanks Jeanne's bullets to the face with no visible injury and tanks punches from deities who tear apart entire landmasses and split oceans. Specific feats can be given on this if needed. My main argument though is that her durability is largely irrelevant, because she is not going to be touched. Why?

Speed and reflexes

Now, THIS is where the bespectacled tease shines. Bayonetta's picture might as well be added to a dictionary under super casual bullet timer.

* Even when she gets blind sighted, she dodges bullets with little effort. Note that to her, these bullets instantly teleported behind her, so she has barely any time to react.

Note that this is he absolute base speed without any amps or abilities. Now, we get to the really sweet stuff.

Witch time

Witch time is what turns Bayonetta into the powerful hack and slash queen she is. Witch time is an ability innate to powerful umbra witches, which seriously slows down time for everyone except the user, to a degree where they might as well be standing still. Entire battles have been fought during Witch Time in the span of a second.

Shoots dozens of bullets which float in mid air

Has a fight that can last up to 5 minutes while an explosion is basically frozen in place. As a run of the mill explosion travels around 2000 - 8000 meters per second and it does not seem to move at all during those 5 minutes... Yeah, Witch Time makes her pretty damn fast.

She has an entire boss fight within the span of a few seconds. Note that at the beginning the guy and the girl are rappelling up to the helicopter (0.28). 9,5 minutes later (9.41), they are still on their way there and Bayonetta, having just defeated Sapientia by then, makes it into the helicopter before them and casually waits for them there.

Skills/weapons

While Bayonetta is a force to be reckoned with even if she is unarmed, she has a diverse arsenal at her disposal. Some of her favorite weapons to use are her twin guns, which fire at an incredible rate, go right through reinforced metal, and one-shot lesser angels.Bayonetta is a master markswoman with her guns, who can casually hit tiny targets without even looking.

Shoots a perfect heart shape into a metal wall while standing vertical and right after a hard landing.

Hits stones in such a way they are propelled towards their target.

Bayonetta has a great deal more weapons at her disposal. These include, but are not limited to:

* Odette: These skates further increase her mobility, freeze lava and nullify hell fire.

* Alruna: A demon whip with thorns which poisons victims and slows them down.

* Salamandara: A chainsaw like device with dragon teeth that tears through steel like it is wet tissue paper.

Summons

Here is where we make a second trip into ‘lolwhut’ land. Bayonetta can use her ‘hair’ to summon powerful demonic entities directly from the underworld, beings who completely demolish creatures who in her verse are considered gods. These beings deliver strikes that have a yield of several hundred gigatons of force behind them.

One of her summons, Madame Butterfly, headbutts a gigantic meteor with no visible strain.

*I am not going to mention Queen Sheeba, as she needed Jean’s help to summon her. But this demon essentially has the striking force to demolish Jupiter.*

How Bayonetta is going to win this battle:

Kamiya, the creative mind behind both DMC and Bayonetta, flat-out stated that Bayonetta would spank Dante and have him ask for more. Bayonetta is stronger than Dante. Author’s word, gg.

Just kidding, I am not letting you off that easily. Although Kamiya did say that.

Bayonetta wil rely on witch time to slow Dante down to a crawl and start bringing the hurt to him. Her bullets and other weapons have enough destructive power to seriously inhure him after a few hits. Her weapons such as Alruna will take a huge toll on him. She also has enough brute strength to incap him with pure physical strikes. Once she has him on the ropes, she can use one of her summons to finish the job.

Dante, Son of the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda!

You heard the story, I know the story we`ve all heard the stories. Dante is the son of the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda a ancient demon who turned on his own kind and sealed away hell itself from the human world. He stood up to the demon lord Mundus and his forces defeating them. He later falls in love with a human woman named Eva and it`s in this time that she would bear his sons, Dante and Vergil. However, good things do come to an end and vengeance never likes to rest, Mundus had a group of demons kill Eva during the time Sparda was absent from the human world and it`s because of this that our favorite white haired demon hunting protagonist became the hero that he is today his brother Vergil embraced his demonic heritage while Dante embraced his human heritage a character of understanding yet a character who is very much underestimated, Dante would be the devil to cry.

This will really give you a fun introduction to the series as a whole.

Feats

Here I will give a general description of what Bayonetta is capable of, with a few feats to strengthen my point. As our debate progresses, I will bring on more feats.

Now I know quite A LOT about Bayonetta having played both her games and having been able to experience the anime but I do believe that I need to put emphasis on why Dante would win considering both were created by Hideki Kamiya who had a few words to say...

No. Platinum doesn't have a Q&A section. You have to go into PGTV and click on older entries a few times then find "Hideki Answers Your Questions - Ep. 01"

Wow, so that interview, when he answered the question he clearly didn't want to give a straight answer so he made a joke. This is what the interview actually said:

The first part was about how Bayo would be the abbreviation for Bayonetta like how DMC is the abbreviation for Devil May Cry.

Hideki said: "Who would win in a fight between Dante and Bayonetta? There is not a man on the planet who can defeat a woman"

Guy said: (Laughing) "If you say it that way, yeah you're right"

Hideki said: "At least, I've never seen one"

Guy said: "So a win for Bayonetta?"

Hideki said: "It's the way of the world"

I just want to say that Hideki was joking about the whole thing and this counts as a fun fact he never meant it as something that is truth. Now I will be countering all the arguments you have presented so far for Bayonetta within your awesome introduction :)

Strength

While the Umbra Witch may look innocent, she is anything but a pushover. She has the brute strength to hang with angels and demons hundreds of times her size and stomp them without breaking a sweat. Her striking strength is ridiculous, pulverizing any opponent she comes across. Although she is never seen flat-out lifting heavy objects, she is easily in the 100 ton range, if not a lot a lot higher, and she outclasses Dante by several magnitudes. And let's not forget, this lady packs quite punch. By the second game her own strikes are measured in the hundreds of gigantons, while in game 1 only her summons got this high up. How ridiculously high is this in terms of striking force? Let's keep that for later. For now, some feats:

I agree on this account. I do believe Bayonetta is a very tough character and her strength is admirable, and this is a area that she has the edge over Dante in but Dante is pretty strong in his own regard. However, Bayonetta`s strength mostly is composed of her magical summons as well as augmentations also durability does come into question in regards to the enemies she defeats onscreen. She does beat Dante in this area but I wouldn`t call it an astronomical advantage only a very advantageous one although it doesn`t really matter considering strength isn`t Dante`s style he doesn`t limit himself to stength it`s his prowess that will prove his power in the end and that`s where Bayonetta doesn`t stand a chance.

Dante with the Gilgamesh gauntlets destroys a skyscraper sized object and he does so casually.

Dante resists the Savior`s attack and easily has his arm lifted despite the dead weight that is to be taken into account the moment he deactivated.

That Nero that you saw Dante fighting in the above gifs is the same one that you see in this video, skip to point 6:03. While Nero did charge up his Devil Bringer Arm when confronting the Savior it still puts into perspective how powerful Nero can be.

Durability

This is arguably Bayonetta’s weakest area. Although she is by no means a glass cannon, her feats in this regard are not quite as ridiculous. Still, she tanks Jeanne's bullets to the face with no visible injury and tanks punches from deities who tear apart entire landmasses and split oceans. Specific feats can be given on this if needed. My main argument though is that her durability is largely irrelevant, because she is not going to be touched. Why?

I agree. Bayonetta can be quite durable though she has been flattened and does tank potent attacks but she is seriously lacking when it comes to piercing and elemental damage. Dante`s versatility AND hax is going to destroy her the moment he decides to bring it to the table. Dante`s healing factor beats out Bayonetta`s durability even though Dante does lack some durability feats of his own he does have a devilish healing factor that rivals characters like Deadpool, Wolverine and Hulk but his DT enhances this making him nigh-unkillable. Before I move on to your speed argument I will showcase healing feats for Dante....

Dante`s healing/regeneration:

• Dante throws Rebellion with great accuracy and manages to hit Beowulf in his eye and blind him in the process before Beowulf can land a hit although Beowulf prepared to attack first and Beowulf`s attack leaves a small crater although Dante is stuck this happens afterwards.

• Dante gets right back up barely phased only annoyed also he brushes the dirt off of his coat as soon as Beowulf makes his exit. Also Beowulf is the originator of the Beowulf Light Gauntlets.

• Dante tanks Nero knocking him into the ground with his powered up Devil Bringer Arm which also created a crack.

• Dante pretends to care when Nero is pounding on his skull with his Devil Bringer Arm as Nero then throws him into the Sparda statue while also throwing Rebellion into Dante`s chest (Nero has great lifting and throwing strength which is displayed throughout the entire game) thus impaling and leaving him to die on the statue but Nero was sadly mistaken.

• Nero is walking away confident due to thinking he killed Dante but is shocked to see that Dante is alive and well as he begins to talk about underestimating Nero`s abilities.

• Dante pulls himself right out of the Sparda statue with Rebellion stuck in his heart and he communicates perfectly with Nero as Nero responds with you aren`t human, are you?

• Dante pulls Rebellion out of his heart and continues his conversation with Nero like nothing happened also as you can see there is no visible wound shown which goes back to Dante`s instantaneous healing being absolute fact.

• Dante after putting Sid in his place is violently attacked by a barrage of flurry swipes from a wrathful Sid (who has enough strength to causally destroy a skyscraper) and is later impaled by his spikes but guess what happens after....

• Dante breaks free easily and was laughing it`s obvious that Dante was all cool about it, he states the following. So, this is all you`ve got then? Not only did Dante break Sid`s spikes easily but he also left Sid astonished which is why he said impossible.

Speed and reflexes

Now, THIS is where the bespectacled tease shines. Bayonetta's picture might as well be added to a dictionary under super casual bullet timer.

This is where Bayonetta loses unfortunately. Bayonetta is quick on her feet and she does have snappy reflexes but she does not compare to the Son of Sparda one bit.

* Even when she gets blind sighted, she dodges bullets with little effort. Note that to her, these bullets instantly teleported behind her, so she has barely any time to react.

Dante`s been a bullet timer ever since he was 18 years old during the events of DMC3, him and his brother Vergil were swinging their swords so fast that it seemed as though the rain had stopped. They effectively and essentially created a barrier above their heads that prevented the RAIN DROPS from falling.

Note that this is he absolute base speed without any amps or abilities. Now, we get to the really sweet stuff.

LOL. Bullets have been slow for Dante and Vergil during the time in which they were young adults and that`s without Devil Trigger a transformation that doubles their stats also DMC2 Dante is 500 times more powerful than his DMC3 counterpart.

Witch time

Witch time is what turns Bayonetta into the powerful hack and slash queen she is. Witch time is an ability innate to powerful umbra witches, which seriously slows down time for everyone except the user, to a degree where they might as well be standing still. Entire battles have been fought during Witch Time in the span of a second.

Witch Time is a godlike ability within the Bayonetta universe but when tested against another time manipulator like Dante it doesn`t really mean much. Dante`s time manipulation will last longer and he can also go further with his abilities as he can stop time. His time manipulation abilities are not limited to just Quicksilver he also has Bangle of Time, Chrono Heart and Quick Heart. Not to mention Dante also has a degree of resistance when it comes to time manipulation in general.

Dante`s time manipulation:

Shoots dozens of bullets which float in mid air

This is unimpressive considering Dante has been able to do that without time manipulation and without amps, and without having to be his DMC2 self which is the version that Bayonetta is going up against.

DMC3 Dante:

Has a fight that can last up to 5 minutes while an explosion is basically frozen in place. As a run of the mill explosion travels around 2000 - 8000 meters per second and it does not seem to move at all during those 5 minutes... Yeah, Witch Time makes her pretty damn fast.

That`s impressive but I don`t see why DMC3 Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that he`s been supersonic since his weakest years. Also reacting to an explosion isn`t something that is new to Dante he`s reacted to explosions before and his amazing speed doesn`t stop there either.

While I could easily showcase counters from a DMC3 Dante, I will simply just showcase Dante`s resistance to time manipulation.

She has an entire boss fight within the span of a few seconds. Note that at the beginning the guy and the girl are rappelling up to the helicopter (0.28). 9,5 minutes later (9.41), they are still on their way there and Bayonetta, having just defeated Sapientia by then, makes it into the helicopter before them and casually waits for them there.

Nothing in that scene really impressed me to be honest it makes sense why this was able to happen. Bayonetta`s Witch Time was under effect and its responsible but the thing is that Bayonetta usually ranges from supersonic-hypersonic at best while Dante`s been high supersonic and low hypersonic since DMC3 and that`s without having to factor in his amps or magical enhancements. Dante could easily replicate this feat also combat-wise it is lacking quite a bit.

15:15

Skills/weapons

While Bayonetta is a force to be reckoned with even if she is unarmed, she has a diverse arsenal at her disposal. Some of her favorite weapons to use are her twin guns, which fire at an incredible rate, go right through reinforced metal, and one-shot lesser angels.Bayonetta is a master markswoman with her guns, who can casually hit tiny targets without even looking.

Bayonetta has the experience advantage considering she`s been around longer than Dante has but Dante is FAR more skilled and talented. EVERY feat that Bayonetta can do Dante could do better and Dante is also WAY more versatile when it comes to having weapons. The way in which Dante utilizes Ebony & Ivory is astounding his accomplishments speak for themselves.

DMC3

DMC1

DMC4

Shoots a perfect heart shape into a metal wall while standing vertical and right after a hard landing.

This is funny because Dante has a very close showing during DMC4 and he was having A LOT of fun when showcasing it.

Hits stones in such a way they are propelled towards their target.

This is a cool feat but it is not the right type of feat in regards to being credible when compared to a character like Dante. Also Bayonetta performed this feat via her Witch Time ability and Dante has a much more cooler feat that deals with sheer accuracy.

Bayonetta has a great deal more weapons at her disposal. These include, but are not limited to:

* Odette: These skates further increase her mobility, freeze lava and nullify hell fire.

* Alruna: A demon whip with thorns which poisons victims and slows them down.

* Salamandara: A chainsaw like device with dragon teeth that tears through steel like it is wet tissue paper.

Bayonetta is versatile but her versatility only goes so far. Dante is more versatile and more hax, these weapons as well as items do not compare to Dante`s overall capability, his arsenal is already A grade compared to Bayonetta`s C grade arsenal but on top of that he has more abilities and amps so all-around he is the much more developed fighter. Bayonetta`s quality versaility takes the form of her magic and summons, and even then it`s not really an advantage only good conversation in regards to the similarities and differences of Dante and Bayonetta. While Bayonneta is better at magic that is obvious, Dante on the other hand doesn`t have to be better or as good with magic considering his experience against magical characters also his versatiity is much more varied and it adds more variable, DMC3 Dante would still have more weapons than composite Bayonetta....

Summons

Here is where we make a second trip into ‘lolwhut’ land. Bayonetta can use her ‘hair’ to summon powerful demonic entities directly from the underworld, beings who completely demolish creatures who in her verse are considered gods. These beings deliver strikes that have a yield of several hundred gigatons of force behind them.

I knew this was coming and I already agree that it will prove to be a help to Bayonetta but not that big of a help considering the opponent she is facing. Dante has seen, faced and beaten worse throughout his career, her summons while unique will be seen as being generic in the unique perspective of Dante due to his experience when it comes to fighting hulking monsters that have a otherworldly origin. Dante also has the ability to call in friends or rather a friend from the dark side.

Dante can summon Doppelganger a shadow being that mimics his abilities and weapons, the Doppelganger Style will aid Dante in taking on Bayonetta`s summons he can provide the extra power and the extra damage.

This is the Doppelganger Style in action as you can see it really follows the lead and command of the Son of Sparda.

One of her summons, Madame Butterfly, headbutts a gigantic meteor with no visible strain.

That is really impressive but meteors aren`t something to behold in the DMC universe and the following will explain this.

Dante during DMC1 when equipped with the Sword of Sparda was able to do battle with the demon lord Mundus. Mundus was creating pocket dimensions, conjuring up lightning, energy beams, demonic spears, asteroids and of course METEORITES. Dante tanked several meteories and re-entry during this fight, and was able to stand up fine right after although he did revert back to his base form. This was during a time in which Dante had officially began the beginning of his journey but he still wasn`t as powerful as he is now by any comparison or by any stretch of the imagination. You see, it`s by DMC2 that Dante surpasses his father to the point in which they had pretty much switched places which means the Dante that you see in the above video is not the strongest version.

*I am not going to mention Queen Sheeba, as she needed Jean’s help to summon her. But this demon essentially has the striking force to demolish Jupiter.*

I agree, that was a combined effort between Bayonetta and Jean but I did have expectation for it regardless. That is cool and all but Mundus was creating pocket dimensions, and his fight with Dante destroyed Mallet Island which was caused by the side effect of their fight (the destructive output was contained within Mundus` dimension which spans many realms) also I believe the Mirror World (alternate dimension) was affected while I do believe that Queen Sheba is more powerful than Mundus my point is that Queen Sheba shouldn`t be seen as the "be all and end all" of any situation between Dante and Bayonetta. It actually works against your argument as much as it advances it considering it would be more of a high end feat within Bayonetta also Dante during DMC2 stomped The Despair Embodied who was a transcedent level being.

How Bayonetta is going to win this battle:

Kamiya, the creative mind behind both DMC and Bayonetta, flat-out stated that Bayonetta would spank Dante and have him ask for more. Bayonetta is stronger than Dante. Author’s word, gg.

As I already said above, Kamiya`s words like most conversations has context and it`s because of that context that we are now here debating about two different things that are centered around the same thing. Kaimya said that Dante wouldn`t be able to beat a woman, his exact words being "There is not a man on the planet who can defeat a woman".

I agree that the author`s word can at times be almost unstoppable but to stop the author`s word in motion before he or she can finish and while leaving out a few things can create a situation of ignorance on what the author said.

Just kidding, I am not letting you off that easily. Although Kamiya did say that.

He said something but it`s certainly not what you just said, I actually think this fight will end up being a little too easy for Dante.

Bayonetta wil rely on witch time to slow Dante down to a crawl and start bringing the hurt to him. Her bullets and other weapons have enough destructive power to seriously inhure him after a few hits. Her weapons such as Alruna will take a huge toll on him. She also has enough brute strength to incap him with pure physical strikes. Once she has him on the ropes, she can use one of her summons to finish the job.

Bayonetta`s Witch Time will not affect Dante in any significant way also Dante can slow AND stop time so the time manipulation advantage goes to him. Dante is also a lot faster than Bayonetta and that`s without including his transformations, Bayonetta`s best chance of hurting Dante is her summons and magic anything else is pointless, also her strength and weaponry is rendered useless due to Dante`s insane speed and combat ability. Brute strength isn`t enough to beat a Son of Sparda, it`s not like she would be able to tag him anyways also she would need to get through his hailstorm of a healing factor and Dante could easily take down her summons. Bayonetta at best even if you were to max out your opinion (with some facts) to the most high degree, would be herald level while Dante stands above her at transcendent level.

IN CONCLUSION:

• Dante is more versatile and he is also more hax.
• Dante`s feats are far more developed while they may not be as over the top they certainly do get the job done when it comes to giving Dante the means to having a stronger argument.
• Bayonetta`s stats are great but Dante beats her out by quite a bit, she`s stronger than Dante but Dante`s strength is enough to challenge her. She`s fast but not nearly as fast as Dante. She`s probably more durable but Dante`s healing factor is A LOT better at what it does.
• Bayonetta`s magic and summons will be the main tools that will give her some aid against Dante but it won`t be enough to get her the win.
• Witch Time is useless, Bayonetta`s "trump card" or "ace in the hole" is not going to be getting Bayonetta anywhere in this fight. Dante can slow down time and stop it in more ways than one considering his options also he already has shown time manipulation resistance feats.
• The monsters Bayonetta faces are crazy in scale but Dante is in league with Bayonetta power-wise, performance wise Bayonetta has the flash and face value factor going for her but Dante still beats out Bayonetta in this category when it comes to how that all would apply to the conversation of Dante vs Bayonetta.
• Dante even without DT and his other abilities is ahead of Bayonetta by quite the margin.
• Doppelganger will be of use when Bayonetta decides to bring out more of her summons in the strategical sense.
• Bayonetta is skilled and experienced but Dante has more experience when it comes to facing highly skilled opponents such as Vergil, Baul & Moedus, Agni & Rudra, Nero and etc. He`s had the chance and the choice to go up against different skill-sets and this includes magic so Bayonetta isn`t going to be surprising him anytime soon.
• Bayonetta is likely going to be fooling around and getting a little carried away during the fight or might even flirt with Dante. Any version of Dante before DMC2 would have been all eyes and ears when it came to confronting Bayonetta as he would be going along with the whole thing but DMC2 Dante is in a different dimension. He doesn`t like to play games neither does he like to keep his fights going he just cuts straight to the chase.
• Everything you have shown so far for Bayonetta barely surpasses what a DMC3 Dante would be able to do with Bayonetta`s strength and summons being the only aspects that can redeem her.

In the end, Bayonetta better hope that Dante considers dating an option because things are about to get M Rated.

@cpt_nice

@neongamewave

Alright, c-c-c-c-counter time!

"Are you ready to dance, boy?"

Counters

I just want to say that Hideki was joking about the whole thing and this counts as a fun fact he never meant it as something that is truth

It was meant somewhat tongue in cheek, but I don't see any reason to discount author's word because of that, unless it was obvious he was not telling the truth. Bayonetta was created after Dante, her series is more over the top and she is portrayed as Dante's superior. To me it seems Hideki did this intentional.

Again, I am not gonna base my argument on this, but this is something to keep in mind ;)

Now I will be countering all the arguments you have presented so far for Bayonetta within your awesome introduction :)

Thanks dude, your opener was sweet as well.

I agree on this account. I do believe Bayonetta is a very tough character and her strength is admirable, and this is a area that she has the edge over Dante in but Dante is pretty strong in his own regard. However, Bayonetta`s strength mostly is composed of her magical summons as well as augmentations also durability does come into question in regards to the enemies she defeats onscreen. She does beat Dante in this area but I wouldn`t call it an astronomical advantage only a very advantageous one although it doesn`t really matter considering strength isn`t Dante`s style he doesn`t limit himself to stength it`s his prowess that will prove his power in the end and that`s where Bayonetta doesn`t stand a chance.

I would agree with this.... if we were talking about Bayonetta in the first game. Most of her major strength feats in said game are done with her summons. However, as is shown in my opener, by Bayonetta 2 her own strength has risen exponentially, to the point where she trumps her own summons in the first game in terms of striking force.

I do not know what you mean by strength prowess. Do you mean he has greater skill in how he uses his strength? Because the first strength feat you post is just him smashing something like a brute.

Dante with the Gilgamesh gauntlets destroys a skyscraper sized object and he does so casually.

The Gilgamesh tower feat is impressive, but does not compare to Bayonetta's skyscraper feat in the slightest for multiple reasons:

1: The tower is stationary while the Skyscraper was coming for Bayonetta at enormous speed. Since we have to account for Newton's laws (an object being in motion wants to stay in motion in said direction), changing the direction of a building which would weigh something in the triple digit of tons (an average skyscraper weighs up to 200.000 tons), is ridiculous in terms of striking force. I hate math, but I could try to give you a calc. I assure you it is way more than hitting a stationary object at the base and making it shatter.

2: The skyscraper seems significantly taller and a lot wider than Dante's tower.

3: Bayonetta's feat was done in base, Dante used a weapon that specifically boosts his strength

4: Said weapon makes Dante significantly slower, which is not a viable strategy when fighting someone like Bayonetta.

Dante resists the Savior`s attack and easily has his arm lifted despite the dead weight that is to be taken into account the moment he deactivated.

This is again impressive, but Bayonetta has done similar things with deities in her verse. It is hard to quantify how much force would be needed to stop that arm, but let's put it into perspective again, using Bayo's skyscraper feat.

1: Dante used both his hands and entire body, Bayonetta used her head.

2: Dante had the ground under him to brace himself, Bayo had no such luxery.

While Nero did charge up his Devil Bringer Arm when confronting the Savior it still puts into perspective how powerful Nero can be.

Sure, but Dante did not resist said Arm. Not saying that makes either of them weak, I just find the scaling a bit arbitrary. Also, Nero seems to exert A LOT of force while doing that.

Let's do a recap on this section.

You posit

Bayonetta's base strength is not that much above's Dante's, and it is not that relevant. Dante has more prowess

I counter

I proved that Bayonetta's strength in base is far above's Dante's, in fact it is likely exponentially above his. Since Bayonetta uses items but is a h2h fighter most of the time, her strength is VERY relevant. If Dante does not show major durability and speed feats later in your post, she can just pummel him with her fists alone.

This is again her base strength, no amps. Or her summons. I also do not know what you mean by prowess.

- - -

she is seriously lacking when it comes to piercing and elemental damage.

I do not know what you mean by elemental damage, but the piercing thing is incorrect. She blocks attacks from sword wielding angels on a regular basis and she tanks her own bullets (which cut through reinforced steel as if it is wet tissue paper) without the slightest bit of damage.

Dante`s healing factor beats out Bayonetta`s durability

Yes, Bayonetta does not have a healing factor while Dante does. But this is flawed logic for a multitude of reasons. First off, it is better to be able to tank something and keep on fighting, than needing a moment to heal. In those feats you posted, if his opponents had not done the DBZ thing and assumed he was dead and/or give him time to regain himself, he would not be able to brush it off like he did.

Also, healing factor is not gonna do Dante much good if Bayonetta has a striking force which would essentially one-shot him. Since you admit yourself (and I agree) that Dante has no amazing durability feats, he is essentially a glass cannon. What keeps him safe is his speed (which we will go into later) and his healing factor, which Bayonetta can bypass in a multitude of ways. First off by just hitting him. Looking at her strength, she has the potential to either one-shot or cripple him with one good hit. Secondly, she can shoot him. His speed will make this tricky, but she has speed herself, so if it comes to a gun battle, she is gonna try to get close and take a shot at his temple and make him say goodbye to his beautiful face. Thirdly, she has her torture attacks, like the guillotine and the iron maiden. I wonder how Dante is going to keep on fighting if he is reduced to bloody pieces. And finally, she has summons that could just eat him if he tried to pull the same crap he tried with Neo. Bayonetta is not known to go easy on opponents who are down.

Dante`s been a bullet timer ever since he was 18 years old during the events of DMC3, him and his brother Vergil were swinging their swords so fast that it seemed as though the rain had stopped. They effectively and essentially created a barrier above their heads that prevented the RAIN DROPS from falling.

I know they are both super casual bullet timers. This does not prove that Bayonetta is slower than Dante. I won't argue Bayo is faster in base, because I actually think they are comparable.

Also, the rain feat is cool; but does not necessarily quantify to SUPER amazing speed. Rain drops are slow, 20 mph actually, and there can be quite some time between rain drops. http://wxguys.ssec.wisc.edu/2013/09/10/how-fast-do-raindrops-fall/

LOL. Bullets have been slow for Dante and Vergil during the time in which they were young adults and that`s without Devil Trigger a transformation that doubles their stats also DMC2 Dante is 500 times more powerful than his DMC3 counterpart.

Again; bullets are slow for the both of them. And I guess the 500 is a hyperbole, or can you support that :')

The time freeze and slown feats

These feats are way less impressive than witch time for a multitude of reasons. First off, in gif nr 3 - 6 you never actually see whether time is actually frozen since it only lasts a short time. And the rocks feats is definitely not time freezing. In gif nr 2 you actually very clearly see the rocks are still going down, while a lot slower.

Let's compare the rock feat with the explosion feat. Rocks in freefall, keeping in mind earth's gravitational pull and air resistance, should not be falling faster than 200 km/h, if we are being very generous since there is no way they gained that speed in such a short distance. Since the rocks are still moving down after time "stop", albeit much slower, it basically went from 200.000 m/60 minutes or about 56 m/sec, to 2 meters/a few minutes. A slow down factor of about a million. If again we are being VERY generous with the speed of said rocks.

An explosion generally travels 2000-8000 m/s (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/minimum-speed-of-an-explosion.11479/). Even at low calcs, an explosion moves dozens of times faster than said rocks at normal speeds. Even letting it move seemingly as slow as Dante's rocks, would mean Bayonetta's Witch time trumps Dante by several magnitudes. But Bayonetta freezed this explosion in place for 300 seconds. I dare you to go back, the explosion did not move visibly. Ergo, Witch Time makes any time 'stop' Dante has look like Child's play. Dante's has better hax? Witch time is OP.

Reacting to lady

None of those feats are the same as shooting dozens of bullets and having bullet nr 1 not moved at all while bullet nr 40 was fired. Bullet timing means moving faster than a bullet/supersonic. Shooting 40 bullets in the span of 5 visible seconds (visible to us, the player) means time was slowed down by such a ridiculous factor, a bullet has not moved to our eyes within those few seconds. In those 5 visible seconds, a bullet should be almost 2 kilometers away. Yet it only moved a few milimeters or centimeters. This means a slowdown factor of several several millions or even billions.

That`s impressive but I don`t see why DMC3 Dante wouldn`t be able to replicate that he`s been supersonic since his weakest years. Also reacting to an explosion isn`t something that is new to Dante he`s reacted to explosions before and his amazing speed doesn`t stop there either.

Same principles a above, being faster than an explosion =/= freezing an explosion

While I could easily showcase counters from a DMC3 Dante, I will simply just showcase Dante`s resistance to time manipulation.

This is a no limit fallacy, since this does not prove that Dante can resist witch time. Bayonetta also has said resistance, being immune to Jeanne's witch time. I argue both their abilities could be efficient and witch time is far more impressive than anything Dante can bring to the table.

You posit

Bayonetta outright loses in speed

I counter

Neither of us could prove either party was significantly faster than the other. Without using their hax; their speed seems to be in the same class. This is where witch time comes in. I proved Dante's ability does not really freeze time as much as it slows it down significantly. Bayonetta's witch time freezes fast moving explosions (almost) in place. Dante's supposed one feat of time manipulation resistance does not mean Bayonetta cannot just freeze lock him. And in a speed hax vs speed hax battle, witch time >>>>>>>> Dante's hax.

Bayonetta has the experience advantage considering she`s been around longer than Dante has but Dante is FAR more skilled and talented. EVERY feat that Bayonetta can do Dante could do better and Dante is also WAY more versatile when it comes to having weapons. The way in which Dante utilizes Ebony & Ivory is astounding his accomplishments speak for themselves.

I don't see anything in those vids that puts Dante leagues above Bayonetta skill wise. Also, because of Bayo's speed and shrugging off bullets of her own gun, even if Dante hits her with said guns, I do not see how that is gonna help him.

The fact that they both preformed almost the same heart feat is kinda hilarious.

I actually think after after seeing your vids, Bayo's penis feat is still way more impressive. She did not look once, it was hundred of meters away, tiny and she shot it over shoulder.

You posit

Dante has superior skill and accuracy.

I counter

I do not think any of what you posted anything proves Dante's superior accuracy. Bayo in my mind, has the superior feat. And as I stated, this entire section is somewhat negligible anyway; since Bayo cannot be hurt by Dante's guns. He on the other hand, can be shot in the face just fine.

Bayonetta is versatile but her versatility only goes so far. Dante is more versatile and more hax, these weapons as well as items do not compare to Dante`s overall capability, his arsenal is already A grade compared to Bayonetta`s C grade arsenal but on top of that he has more abilities and amps so all-around he is the much more developed fighter. Bayonetta`s quality versaility takes the form of her magic and summons, and even then it`s not really an advantage only good conversation in regards to the similarities and differences of Dante and Bayonetta. While Bayonneta is better at magic that is obvious, Dante on the other hand doesn`t have to be better or as good with magic considering his experience against magical characters also his versatiity is much more varied and it adds more variable, DMC3 Dante would still have more weapons than composite Bayonetta....

This is a lot text that says Dante is more versatile but does not prove it. Also, being more versatile and having more weapons means little if the strength and speed gap is as enormous.

Dante can summon Doppelganger a shadow being that mimics his abilities and weapons, the Doppelganger Style will aid Dante in taking on Bayonetta`s summons he can provide the extra power and the extra damage.

Bayonetta regularly fights groups of opponents with speed on her level. Adding an extra Dante will not do much, and its bullets are equally useless as Dante's.

Dante during DMC1 when equipped with the Sword of Sparda was able to do battle with the demon lord Mundus. Mundus was creating pocket dimensions, conjuring up lightning, energy beams, demonic spears, asteroids and of course METEORITES. Dante tanked several meteories and re-entry during this fight, and was able to stand up fine right after although he did revert back to his base form. This was during a time in which Dante had officially began the beginning of his journey but he still wasn`t as powerful as he is now by any comparison or by any stretch of the imagination. You see, it`s by DMC2 that Dante surpasses his father to the point in which they had pretty much switched places which means the Dante that you see in the above video is not the strongest version.

Could you say at what time in that 22 minute vid he actually tanks meteorites? It would make this a bit easier. Also Bayonetta regularly dodges lightning as part of gameplay.

I agree, that was a combined effort between Bayonetta and Jean but I did have expectation for it regardless. That is cool and all but Mundus was creating pocket dimensions, and his fight with Dante destroyed Mallet Island which was caused by the side effect of their fight (the destructive output was contained within Mundus` dimension which spans many realms) also I believe the Mirror World (alternate dimension) was affected while I do believe that Queen Sheba is more powerful than Mundus my point is that Queen Sheba shouldn`t be seen as the "be all and end all" of any situation between Dante and Bayonetta. It actually works against your argument as much as it advances it considering it would be more of a high end feat within Bayonetta also Dante during DMC2 stomped The Despair Embodied who was a transcedent level being.

Pocket dimensions means nothing combat wise. Prof Farnsworth has one, I could stomp him in a fist fight. And transcedent being also means nothing.

I was not planning to dwell on Queen Sheba, in fact she cannot use her, period. So I was not even arguing as her being a end all.

Not gonna comment on the Kamiya stuff, already addressed.

He said something but it`s certainly not what you just said, I actually think this fight will end up being a little too easy for Dante.

It is really cute you think that, Cheshire.

Bayonetta`s Witch Time will not affect Dante in any significant way also Dante can slow AND stop time so the time manipulation advantage goes to him.

You have not proven witch time will not affect Dante, you have proven he has some resistance. Since Bayo has the same resistance, this is not his advantage. I also proved witch time is significantly better than his time slow and his time stop is not necessarily a time stop unless you post a feat of it essentially stopping time for 5 minutes or more, like WT. Bayo has the advantage here.

Dante is also a lot faster than Bayonetta and that`s without including his transformations

This was not proven in the slightest

Bayonetta`s best chance of hurting Dante is her summons and magic anything else is pointless

Or just pimpslapping him, since his durability is ass. Then when is down and trying to regenerate, summon one of her demons and eat him/rip him apart, etc. Shooting him is also an option if she gets a good shot, since I did not see one durability feat that suggests he can tank her bullets. And let's not forget she can basically keep shooting indefinitely, since her guns require no reload.

Brute strength isn`t enough to beat a Son of Sparda, it`s not like she would be able to tag him anyways also she would need to get through his hailstorm of a healing factor and Dante could easily take down her summons.

Yet to be proven. I am not arguing she will be able to tag him consistently without WT but neither will he with her. If he tags her though; she will shrug off his most used attacks and bullets. He cannot hope to do the same.

Bayonetta at best even if you were to max out your opinion (with some facts) to the most high degree, would be herald level while Dante stands above her at transcendent level.

This is meaningless.

Not gonna comment to all your conclusions since a lot of it was already covered. I will respond to a few statements

Bayonetta is skilled and experienced but Dante has more experience when it comes to facing highly skilled opponents such as Vergil, Baul & Moedus, Agni & Rudra, Nero and etc. He`s had the chance and the choice to go up against different skill-sets and this includes magic so Bayonetta isn`t going to be surprising him anytime soon.

The highly skilled opponents argument you did not make before your conclusion. Bayo has faced a variety of different angels AND demons with various skill levels, deities with thousands of years of experience under their belts and a fellow witch prodigy, hundreds of years old, with abilities on par with hers. Her opponents are not exactly kindergartners either. Bayo will indeed not surprise Dante in terms of WHAT she brings to the table, but then again she does not need to.

The flirting argument

This is a tad of a lame argument. Bayo might finish fights quickly but so does Bayo most of the time. Her being a tease is because throughout her fights; she remains almost completely untouched 99,9% of the time. She is not gonna let Dante go to her head just because he is pretty.

Conclusion

* Dante's strength is several orders of magnitudes below Bayo's. She is possibly within one-shot range by just slapping him due to his ass durability.

* Once he goes down, she is gonna make sure he stays down by finishing him with a summon.

* Their base speed is comparable unless you prove otherwise.

* WT is far superior to anything Dante has time/speed hax wise. Saying he can resist it is a no-limit fallacy.

* Him being able to bring down her summons is not a certainty, and she uses summons as finishing moves and not as a go to during the fight.

* Accuracy is still debatable and since Bayo tanks bullets for breakfast while Dante does not, this is his fight to lose.

* The whole skill and versatility argument is a hyperbole and not really relevant.

In the end, Bayonetta better hope that Dante considers dating an option because things are about to get M Rated.

Oh if that were the case, it would be a stomp honestly.

Back to you!!

Sorry it took so long, ran into some stuff I had to deal with.

Now that was a really amazing counter but it only proves that Bayonetta is losing this match.

Alright, c-c-c-c-counter time!

I`m definitely ready and it`s my turn!

"Welcome Ya"

Counters

It was meant somewhat tongue in cheek, but I don't see any reason to discount author's word because of that, unless it was obvious he was not telling the truth. Bayonetta was created after Dante, her series is more over the top and she is portrayed as Dante's superior. To me it seems Hideki did this intentional.

I know and I understand. The problem though is that you are taking the author`s word out of context and making it fit into what you wanted the author to say. Hideki was jokingly answering a fan question during the time in which Bayonetta was receiving it`s marketing, press and promotional release also he was involved with DMC1 so he was more so comparing Bayonetta to a DMC1 Dante not an EoS one. She wasn`t only created after Dante but she also needs good word of mouth to get good sales and good feedback also body language is very important in understanding communication in daily life. Hideki`s body language indicates that he was joking about the whole thing the references he made further proves and validates this.

Again, I am not gonna base my argument on this, but this is something to keep in mind ;)

I agree but we have to keep in mind a very important principle when it comes to understanding what the author really said and what you wanted him to say.

Thanks dude, your opener was sweet as well.

Your welcome and thanks for the kind words =D

I would agree with this.... if we were talking about Bayonetta in the first game. Most of her major strength feats in said game are done with her summons. However, as is shown in my opener, by Bayonetta 2 her own strength has risen exponentially, to the point where she trumps her own summons in the first game in terms of striking force.

She does but my point still stands as it still applies. Bayonetta is strong and she is stronger than Dante however MOST of that over the top strength comes from her ability to summon massive demons which is why her best feats come in the form of the QTEs that require for her to finish off an enemy with her summons and she still lacks the necessary speed to be able to put that strength to good use against a character like that Dante.

I do not know what you mean by strength prowess. Do you mean he has greater skill in how he uses his strength? Because the first strength feat you post is just him smashing something like a brute.

What I mean is that Dante`s overall ability and capability succeeds that of Bayonetta`s which would include her strength, not really it`s more so him displaying strength via skill he`s not smashing through things like the Hulk or Thor...

The Gilgamesh tower feat is impressive, but does not compare to Bayonetta's skyscraper feat in the slightest for multiple reasons:

I agree but it wasn`t supposed to compare it was just proof in regards to showcasing why Dante could challenge Bayonetta in this category and he makes up for it with his speed, versatility and skill.

1: The tower is stationary while the Skyscraper was coming for Bayonetta at enormous speed. Since we have to account for Newton's laws (an object being in motion wants to stay in motion in said direction), changing the direction of a building which would weigh something in the triple digit of tons (an average skyscraper weighs up to 200.000 tons), is ridiculous in terms of striking force. I hate math, but I could try to give you a calc. I assure you it is way more than hitting a stationary object at the base and making it shatter.

It doesn`t change the fact that the object was a skyscraper also Dante performed his feat with ease. It really doesn`t matter because I already admitted that Dante wasn`t a strength type of guy he`s a powerhouse and it`s for this very reason that he will defeat Bayonetta. Bayonetta may be able to bat away massive objects at alarming speeds but if she cannot tag the Son of Sparda then she might as well give up and call it day. Dante has other strength feats that will prove to be useful when up against Bayonetta that wasn`t his best one...

2: The skyscraper seems significantly taller and a lot wider than Dante's tower.

It is more impressive in dimension, width, length and etc but it doesn`t really matter as I have already proven.

3: Bayonetta's feat was done in base, Dante used a weapon that specifically boosts his strength

Dante`s feat was still performed in base he did not use DT or his speed, he just stood there and demolished the demon gate also he did it casually.

4: Said weapon makes Dante significantly slower, which is not a viable strategy when fighting someone like Bayonetta.

It won`t make him slower considering Dante during DMC4 never really used speed to begin with he was more so playful and childish but when he did he moved many times more faster than his enemies also Dante is A LOT more skilled in H2H combat.

This is again impressive, but Bayonetta has done similar things with deities in her verse. It is hard to quantify how much force would be needed to stop that arm, but let's put it into perspective again, using Bayo's skyscraper feat.

It would have to weigh more than 100 tons at the very least considering it`s size and mass also the dead weight force that would have to be factored in. I think you are overplaying the skyscraper feat a little too much.

1: Dante used both his hands and entire body, Bayonetta used her head.

He barely tried when doing so and he was fighting with the Savior for hours upon hours also he did it casually without DT...

2: Dante had the ground under him to brace himself, Bayo had no such luxery.

It would actually be harder to do it in Dante`s case considering the rate in which the attack was coming and the fact that he had little space to work with. Bayonetta`s agility and flexibility gives her some leeway.

Sure, but Dante did not resist said Arm. Not saying that makes either of them weak, I just find the scaling a bit arbitrary. Also, Nero seems to exert A LOT of force while doing that.

He did resist Nero`s arm, he held him back. I already pointed out that Nero was charging up his Devil Bringer Arm but Dante has shown that he can hold back a bloodlusted Nero`s arm during their fight.

Let's do a recap on this section.

Yes let`s do that.

I proved that Bayonetta's strength in base is far above's Dante's, in fact it is likely exponentially above his. Since Bayonetta uses items but is a h2h fighter most of the time, her strength is VERY relevant. If Dante does not show major durability and speed feats later in your post, she can just pummel him with her fists alone.

And I agreed but the problem is that it`s not really all that relevant when you think about it. Dante still beats her in speed and skill also his prowess is superior to hers. He`s had more time to develop his abilities and combat capabilities are much more cutting edge. That`s if she can tag him and I doubt it considering Dante`s speed when holding back (he`s still hypersonic+) and not using any amps or time manipulation, Bayonetta`s speed pales in comparison and Dante has too many options when it comes to being able to avoid her attacks.

This is again her base strength, no amps. Or her summons. I also do not know what you mean by prowess.

- - -

It doesn`t matter considering everything I have shown for Dante was also his base strength without DT or time manipulation which Bayonetta does rely on quite a lot.

I do not know what you mean by elemental damage, but the piercing thing is incorrect. She blocks attacks from sword wielding angels on a regular basis and she tanks her own bullets (which cut through reinforced steel as if it is wet tissue paper) without the slightest bit of damage.

Dante tanks fire hotter than lava, ice colder than subzero, lightning, demonic energy, magical oriented attacks and etc. She blocks while Dante tanks and recovers from piercing damage in no time without the need for DT. If Dante were to impale her with Rebellion she would be dead. Also in that video you posted it looked as though she avoided the bullets in that split second also she was still being thrown around if that were Dante it would literally laugh at the situation.

Yes, Bayonetta does not have a healing factor while Dante does. But this is flawed logic for a multitude of reasons. First off, it is better to be able to tank something and keep on fighting, than needing a moment to heal. In those feats you posted, if his opponents had not done the DBZ thing and assumed he was dead and/or give him time to regain himself, he would not be able to brush it off like he did.

Not really, I think you are misreading the argument. Bayonetta`s durability is good but having a healing factor is safer considering Dante already has durability but his healing factor is a plan B mechanic and it kicks in when it has to his durability and healing increases when he is DT mode. If Dante were to get impaled in the heart or brain he would recover in no time but Bayonetta would die her blunt force damage soak is really good but Dante`s methods of attack work more within the realm of piercing damage and she lacks feats as well as a healing factor so her durability won`t mean much same with Superman his durability is really good when it comes to blunt force attacks and energy attacks (sometimes) but once a weapon manages to get through to his heart it would prove vital same with Wonder Woman she`s not that great when it comes to piercing damage and her healing factor doesn`t change that fact. The feats I showed for Dante were him at a younger point in his life where his powers didn`t fully develop and he was fooling around with his opponents also it was BASE FORM Dante that I showcased, DT makes him almost unbeatable.

Also, healing factor is not gonna do Dante much good if Bayonetta has a striking force which would essentially one-shot him. Since you admit yourself (and I agree) that Dante has no amazing durability feats, he is essentially a glass cannon. What keeps him safe is his speed (which we will go into later) and his healing factor, which Bayonetta can bypass in a multitude of ways. First off by just hitting him. Looking at her strength, she has the potential to either one-shot or cripple him with one good hit. Secondly, she can shoot him. His speed will make this tricky, but she has speed herself, so if it comes to a gun battle, she is gonna try to get close and take a shot at his temple and make him say goodbye to his beautiful face. Thirdly, she has her torture attacks, like the guillotine and the iron maiden. I wonder how Dante is going to keep on fighting if he is reduced to bloody pieces. And finally, she has summons that could just eat him if he tried to pull the same crap he tried with Neo. Bayonetta is not known to go easy on opponents who are down.

It will trust me, I barely scratched the surface when it came to Dante`s healing factor and will it matter considering Dante will be dodging at rapid speeds that Bayonetta can`t even comprehend? Also the skill advantage is there so he could always parry her attacks he will be taking far less damage during this fight the same however cannot be said for Bayonetta. Bayonetta is not one-shotting Dante it`s the other away around, Bayonetta isn`t surviving decapitation or impalement she doesn`t have feats for that and the fact that she lacks a healing factor makes the situation worse for her. Dante has feats when it comes to blunt force damage in his human form and its comparable to what Bayonetta has to offer she can`t oneshot someone who heals the instant the damage is dealt. What is shooting Dante going to do lol. Dante recovers from piercing damage quite easily which would include bullets and he could easily reflect it with Royal Guard which I will be getting into very soon. She`s fast but she can`t compete with Dante she would only have a chance if Dante let her tag him and if he was playing around he won`t be doing that here in his DMC2 incarnation also he was toying around with Nero lol and I wouldn`t be surprised if Dante were to slice Bayonetta`s summons right open.

I know they are both super casual bullet timers. This does not prove that Bayonetta is slower than Dante. I won't argue Bayo is faster in base, because I actually think they are comparable.

LOL. Dante did that feat when he was 18 YEARS OLD I have to put emphasis because that does prove that he is many times more faster than Bayonetta. Every feat you showcases for Bayonetta is in line with DMC3 Dante and he wasn`t even trying with his bullet timing feats with Bayonetta she has to utilize Witch Time to some effect to avoid attacks and remember that`s without DT, Dante can also teleport but I`ll get to that later.

Also, the rain feat is cool; but does not necessarily quantify to SUPER amazing speed. Rain drops are slow, 20 mph actually, and there can be quite some time between rain drops. http://wxguys.ssec.wisc.edu/2013/09/10/how-fast-do-raindrops-fall/

It doesn`t have to it`s there to prove that Dante is faster than Bayonetta even in his younger years. Also it doesn`t matter how you quantify it the proof is that him and Vergil created a barrier over their heads due to the amount of speed and friction they were generating.

Again; bullets are slow for the both of them. And I guess the 500 is a hyperbole, or can you support that :')

Bullets are slower for Dante during his young adult years compared to a much older Bayonetta who is growing into her Bayonetta 2 counterpart and Dante doesn`t struggle as much when in facing other fast opponents. I could definitely support that but I really don`t have to.

These feats are way less impressive than witch time for a multitude of reasons. First off, in gif nr 3 - 6 you never actually see whether time is actually frozen since it only lasts a short time. And the rocks feats is definitely not time freezing. In gif nr 2 you actually very clearly see the rocks are still going down, while a lot slower.

WOW. Now you are really reaching with that assumption the proof is there for you to see onscreen. The rocks fall, then Dante stops them in their tracks he pocks them and then they begin to move indicating time has stopped the reason why they move later is because the effects no longer apply due to Dante also it`s better than Witch Time because during Witch Time enemies are still moving at a considerate rate with Quicksilver it increases Dante`s speed while slowing his enemies down.

Let's compare the rock feat with the explosion feat. Rocks in freefall, keeping in mind earth's gravitational pull and air resistance, should not be falling faster than 200 km/h, if we are being very generous since there is no way they gained that speed in such a short distance. Since the rocks are still moving down after time "stop", albeit much slower, it basically went from 200.000 m/60 minutes or about 56 m/sec, to 2 meters/a few minutes. A slow down factor of about a million. If again we are being VERY generous with the speed of said rocks.

What does this have to do with debunking the Quicksilver being able to slow down time and stop it feat? These are pointless calculations that rely too much on assumption by comparing it to the real world where it doesn`t apply. Even if you were right it wouldn`t prove that Witch Time is any better considering it would work the same way also Quicksilver would last longer for Dante considering his Sparda DT which has infinite reserves of magic so this point is irrelevant as much as it is invalid.

An explosion generally travels 2000-8000 m/s (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/minimum-speed-of-an-explosion.11479/). Even at low calcs, an explosion moves dozens of times faster than said rocks at normal speeds. Even letting it move seemingly as slow as Dante's rocks, would mean Bayonetta's Witch time trumps Dante by several magnitudes. But Bayonetta freezed this explosion in place for 300 seconds. I dare you to go back, the explosion did not move visibly. Ergo, Witch Time makes any time 'stop' Dante has look like Child's play. Dante's has better hax? Witch time is OP.

Bad logic. Your trying to apply the speed of rocks to the actual ability and how it works? The rocks were about to hit Dante and in that instant they are stopped in their tracks you can`t compare that to the explosion feat when Bayonetta had more time to react also Quicksilver would activate a lot faster so it has nothing to do with how fast objects move or the things happening around them it`s about Dante and Bayonetta`s ability to react and like I already said Quicksilver lasts A LOT longer than what was shown with Witch Time.

None of those feats are the same as shooting dozens of bullets and having bullet nr 1 not moved at all while bullet nr 40 was fired. Bullet timing means moving faster than a bullet/supersonic. Shooting 40 bullets in the span of 5 visible seconds (visible to us, the player) means time was slowed down by such a ridiculous factor, a bullet has not moved to our eyes within those few seconds. In those 5 visible seconds, a bullet should be almost 2 kilometers away. Yet it only moved a few milimeters or centimeters. This means a slowdown factor of several several millions or even billions.

LOL. Your comparing a 18 year old Dante to Bayonetta`s best feats and Dante reacted to a great markswoman like Lady point blank range also I don`t know why you keep bringing up these calculations when they have nothing to do with the argument at hand your looking too deeply into things we have to go by face value and the fact of the factor that decides what the face value is and what it means. All I wanted to show is that Dante`s been bullet timing and dodging casually in his weaker years and without any amps while Bayonetta on the other hand has to rely on Witch Time.

Same principles a above, being faster than an explosion =/= freezing an explosion

But it`s a weak argument because your comparing it to a Devil May Cry 3 Dante who isn`t using Devil Trigger...

This is a no limit fallacy, since this does not prove that Dante can resist witch time. Bayonetta also has said resistance, being immune to Jeanne's witch time. I argue both their abilities could be efficient and witch time is far more impressive than anything Dante can bring to the table.

WHAT??? How is that a no limits fallacy I could easily reverse this argument and say that Bayonetta would not be able to resist Quicksilver or Bangle of Time both are the same thing it`s magic and it affects time, Dante has shown feats when it comes to proving himself in a situation that deals with him confronting time manipulation. Now that is weak logic considering there`s NOTHING that indicates that the Umbra Witches` Witch Time is different (or at least drastically different) and Bayonetta herself utilizes Witch Time so it cancels it out....

Neither of us could prove either party was significantly faster than the other. Without using their hax; their speed seems to be in the same class. This is where witch time comes in. I proved Dante's ability does not really freeze time as much as it slows it down significantly. Bayonetta's witch time freezes fast moving explosions (almost) in place. Dante's supposed one feat of time manipulation resistance does not mean Bayonetta cannot just freeze lock him. And in a speed hax vs speed hax battle, witch time >>>>>>>> Dante's hax.

Not true, I have BARELY gotten started with Dante`s speed feats, you have barely showcased anything for Bayonetta. Most of what you showed barely compares to a DMC3 Dante and it was Witch Time that allowed her to perform those feats the way that she did. Their speed is not in the same class considering Dante has been bullet timing much more impressively in his base form (as well as in his longer history ever since his first appearance) and he can teleport also your ignoring all of his other abilities to overrate Witch Time which doesn`t last as long and it doesn`t work as effectively as Quicksilver does. Dante`s enemies move a lot slower when under the effects of Quicksilver in comparison to Bayonetta`s enemies being affected by Witch Time. What??????

I don't see anything in those vids that puts Dante leagues above Bayonetta skill wise. Also, because of Bayo's speed and shrugging off bullets of her own gun, even if Dante hits her with said guns, I do not see how that is gonna help him.

You haven`t proven anything in Bayonetta`s case you only showcased feats of her utilizing her pistols but nothing else really and Dante`s actually fought more skilled characters in his time, how does that compare when I only showcased a DMC3 Dante? Where is all this lowballing coming from?

The fact that they both preformed almost the same heart feat is kinda hilarious.

I agree :)

I actually think after after seeing your vids, Bayo's penis feat is still way more impressive. She did not look once, it was hundred of meters away, tiny and she shot it over shoulder.

Dante has similar feats when it comes to not having to look when shooting also Dante did his feat with more distance and he did it casually, and he displayed more agility with his feat.

I do not think any of what you posted anything proves Dante's superior accuracy. Bayo in my mind, has the superior feat. And as I stated, this entire section is somewhat negligible anyway; since Bayo cannot be hurt by Dante's guns. He on the other hand, can be shot in the face just fine.

That you haven`t proven only stated. Dante`s feats are much more accurate and are done in situations that require more precision, she will be hurt once Dante decides to supernaturally charge his guns also bullets don`t hurt Dante and Bayonetta`s will be no different.

This is a lot text that says Dante is more versatile but does not prove it. Also, being more versatile and having more weapons means little if the strength and speed gap is as enormous.

So your just going to flat out ignore the evidence that I provided with the videos....It means A LOT considering the fact that Dante is faster, more skilled and having versatility gives him more options when it comes to dealing with Bayonetta`s strength advantage which isn`t really a big deal considering Dante faces enemies who are stronger than him all the time.

Bayonetta regularly fights groups of opponents with speed on her level. Adding an extra Dante will not do much, and its bullets are equally useless as Dante's.

Groups of fodder opponents. The Doppelganger is literally another Dante that is being thrown into the mix and who could hide in shadow or underneath which makes him all the more unpredictable, Bayonetta even with her summons won`t be able to face two Dantes at once, what? It can utilize ANY of Dante`s weapons....

Could you say at what time in that 22 minute vid he actually tanks meteorites? It would make this a bit easier. Also Bayonetta regularly dodges lightning as part of gameplay.

He tanks meteorites at the 5:31 mark and Hideki confirmed that Mundus could create his own space his intent was clear when it came to this fight. Dante was tanking meteorites and asteroids during this fight and so does Dante....

Pocket dimensions means nothing combat wise. Prof Farnsworth has one, I could stomp him in a fist fight. And transcedent being also means nothing.

Oh boy...Here we go again....Many like to use that as a way to downplay the feat but they miss the greatest piece of information that the fight is trying to inform them about. The pocket dimension is only there to prove where Mundus stands as the devil of the entire DMC universe but it`s what he does inside the pocket dimension that counts and Farnsworth from Futurama is not a good comparison considering he`s an old mad genius who uses science as a way to create pocket dimensions and bombs I guess you could compare him to Franklin Richards who creates universes and can do battle. I know many characters who are above and below Mundus they can create pocket dimensions but it doesn`t detract from my point about Mundus being able to create one he is still very capable when it comes to combat.

I was not planning to dwell on Queen Sheba, in fact she cannot use her, period. So I was not even arguing as her being a end all.

I was just making a point because your arguments seemed to apply that she held weight regardless of what you already said.

Not gonna comment on the Kamiya stuff, already addressed.

I understand but I think your overplaying what Kamiya actually said.

It is really cute you think that, Cheshire.

It`s quite sad that you actually think that matters.

You have not proven witch time will not affect Dante, you have proven he has some resistance. Since Bayo has the same resistance, this is not his advantage. I also proved witch time is significantly better than his time slow and his time stop is not necessarily a time stop unless you post a feat of it essentially stopping time for 5 minutes or more, like WT. Bayo has the advantage here.

I HAVE. Your sidestepping my arguments and trying to apply the no limit fallacy argument which wasn`t even applied appropriately. You have proven why Bayonetta wouldn`t be affected by Dante`s manipulation other than Jeanne`s Witch Time which was only canceled out by Bayonetta`s Witch Time also whose not to say that Dante`s abilities wouldn`t cancel Bayonetta`s? You know he has more options when it comes to manipulating time. You actually haven`t you just threw in random calcs and then tried to lowball the feat by emphasizing the falling rocks while ignoring the context of how the ability actually works and Dante`s ability would last longer considering he has DT.

This was not proven in the slightest

I have already the problem that you fail to realize is that you have been comparing Bayonetta`s best feats with Dante`s lowest this whole time that already says a lot.

Or just pimpslapping him, since his durability is ass. Then when is down and trying to regenerate, summon one of her demons and eat him/rip him apart, etc. Shooting him is also an option if she gets a good shot, since I did not see one durability feat that suggests he can tank her bullets. And let's not forget she can basically keep shooting indefinitely, since her guns require no reload.

Like that`s going to happen. You say it as though Dante is just going to be standing there and allowing Bayonetta to hit him also his healing factor is more than enough to allow him to recover and I have been holding back a lot when it comes to Dante and his abilities. Your trying to lowball Dante to Bayonetta`s enemies` levels he`s not useless fodder that just stands around and doesn`t defend himself lol, are you actually saying Bayonetta`s bullets will be a factor when up against someone like Dante? Dante`s bullets don`t require reload, their infinite and he can supercharge them...

Yet to be proven. I am not arguing she will be able to tag him consistently without WT but neither will he with her. If he tags her though; she will shrug off his most used attacks and bullets. He cannot hope to do the same.

It has already been proven. Dante is faster and he has teleportation also her feats against bullets doesn`t mean she will be able to survive being impaled in the heart you keep lowballing Dante when it comes to durability and etc. But Bayonetta doesn`t even have feats when it comes to impalement, blunt force feats won`t do her any good here and WT is useless...

This is meaningless.

It really isn`t considering I know both these characters inside and out while I`m beginning to question your knowledge when it comes to Dante considering your arguments are recycle and repeats of what I have to experience on the Vine...

Not gonna comment to all your conclusions since a lot of it was already covered. I will respond to a few statements

Fair enough.

The highly skilled opponents argument you did not make before your conclusion. Bayo has faced a variety of different angels AND demons with various skill levels, deities with thousands of years of experience under their belts and a fellow witch prodigy, hundreds of years old, with abilities on par with hers. Her opponents are not exactly kindergartners either. Bayo will indeed not surprise Dante in terms of WHAT she brings to the table, but then again she does not need to.

I did mention it but I will illustrate this fact here. She has but none of those angels or adversaries had anything on Dante`s opponents and rogues gallery when it came to skill or talent also everything you have mentioned is basic when it comes to Dante`s universe and he faces similar threats and more. You can`t showcase at least one character who is on par with Vergil or Sparda when it comes to skill, discipline, natural ability and talent also Dante has faced opponents who were more than 2000+ years old and my point was that her magic wouldn`t be an advantage.

This is a tad of a lame argument. Bayo might finish fights quickly but so does Bayo most of the time. Her being a tease is because throughout her fights; she remains almost completely untouched 99,9% of the time. She is not gonna let Dante go to her head just because he is pretty.

Not really. Considering it`s an in-character thing for Bayonetta and I mentioned it as a possibility I`m pretty you would yourself if I were to use any Dante before his DMC2 incarnation you mentioned this before on another thread so.....I`m not saying she will my point was that she could carry away during the fight easier and faster than Dante would considering this is the DMC2 version.

"Let`s Rock, Baby!"

And you thought I was done? I was just going to respond to your conclusion and then make my own? Well I`m FAR from done, now I have to address all of your points considering they astound me....And I don`t mean that in a good way...Now I`m to be going in order when it comes to the arguments you made and I will showcase more evidence as to why those arguments are unsupported.

Dante`s speed vs Bayonetta`s speed.

Now the problem I`m having with your arguments is that you keep on insisting that Dante is inferior to Bayonetta when I clearly showcased a DMC3 Dante which is him at his weakest and you ignore the fact that Bayonetta relies on Witch Time which Dante doesn`t when it comes to performing his feats. Dante also is more casual when it comes his feats and he doesn`t require power-ups, I will showcase his speed feats and then I will also showcase his other abilities that tie into his speed feats.

This is the entire context to Dante`s fight with Lady.

These links will give you evidence in regards to how impressive Lady can be...

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4l5vQeypm0
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh5vMSiJKhA

Dante`s speed Part I:

Here is Part II

Part II:

Here comes Part III

Part III:

Dante saves Lucia from an explosion the moment it occurs and is able to land on a cliff in the process before the smoke could cover him completely. Now this feat is more impressive than Bayonetta`s considering she had to use Witch Time to have the edge when it came to avoiding her situation regarding the explosion.

Dante saves Lucia from Arius` attack and she was being held in place by magical bonds during this time. Dante also was quite the distance away and Arius launched a light attack at Lucia when this occurred. Dante saves Lucia also from the explosion which happened point-blank range and then outpaces another explosion point-blank range when transitioning into his demon form.

At the 1:53 mark, Dante reacts to Mundus` laser (or light beam) and this is not aim-dodging like what most street level characters do. Dante turns his head the moment it is fired and deflects it with his demonic aura.

Dante is impaled by Alastor in the heart (this would kill Bayonetta) and is able to recover by removing himself from the blade`s grasp he had the hilt go through his heart. It`s during this time that he wields Alastor in which he gains lightning reflexes and combat speed. ALL OF THE FALLING GLASS SHARDS ARE FROZEN TO DANTE`S PERCEPTION.

And it was by your own advocating and admission that you agreed that the author`s word matters so when the author says that Alastor gives DMC1 Dante lightning level combat speed then it does give Dante lightning level combat speed.

Teleportation:

Now Dante can teleport and has shown to be able to due to Trickster which adds on to his already amazing speed it is one of his most useful Styles and it will prove very useful against Bayonetta although Dante already has the speed advantage. Dante has faced off against teleporters before such as Vergil, Jester, and etc.

Disappear in the blink of an eye, then reappear above the enemy ready to strike.

Dash	Any Direction+/Any Direction+ (ground)	A quick dash that allows you to deftly evade enemy attacks.
Sky Star	Any Direction+/Any Direction+ (mid-air)	Use magical energy to create a mid-air platform from which you can kick off and move horizontally.
Mustang	/ (collide with enemy, Dash)	Close in on an enemy by dashing, then use their body as a platform to jump into the air.
Flipper	/ (knocked back)	Flip back into a safe position after being knocked off your feet by enemy attacks.
Air Trick	++/++	Aim above an enemy's head and disappear in the blink of an eye with blindingly quick movements.

1.

2.

3.

Dante`s Healing Factor and Durability:

Now Dante`s healing factor is unique. He recovers from damage during the time it is inflicted it`s pretty much instantaneous, Dante tanks attacks that deal with blunt force damage, piercing damage, elemental damage, concussive force and etc. Dante heals too fast which is why Bayonetta`s attacks aren`t going to be doing much in the long run although Dante is fully capable of dodging her attacks which take time to initiate when in regards to her summons and she`s never faced a character quite like Dante before when it comes to speed and reflex. Dante has obviously survived all of his games and its during those same games that he has endured through many types and many kinds of damage.

Trish electrocutes Dante with her demonic lightning (which was given to her by Mundus) and starts kicking him around, and she even impales him with his own sword but Dante just stands up with the sword embedded into his heart, and then casually pulls it out like nothing ever happened. This fight tells us that Trish`s attacks were meaningless as much as they were useless.

Dante even when exhausted and overwhelmed in his fight against Vergil was able to easily repel Rebellion which Vergil used to impale him, and he recovers quite easily from all the previous damage that was dealt during the fight also his Devil Trigger becomes active during this time as well.

Dante even when impaled by multiple demonic scythes just walks it off without a care in the world and has a party started while casually removing the blades from his flesh. As you can see his healing factor is instant.

Gallery

As you can see in these gifs, Dante was able to survive a SUPER MASSIVE FALL when inside the Leviathan`s stomach all the way from the top of the Temen ni-gru tower to the bottom.

This video provides the full context.

Devil Trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now Devil Trigger is like the Super Saiyan transformation for Dante. It increases ALL of his attributes which includes strength, speed, healing, senses, durability, reflex and etc. It also grants him with new abilities in regards to certain devil arms, and obviously flight is another ability that is granted. In Devil Trigger form, Dante is untouchable when it comes to certain criteria.

• He cannot be restrained
• He cannot have his soul manipulated
• His resistances increase

There`s more but that`s just a basic rundown. In this state, Bayonetta will not be able to keep up with Dante whatsoever he will prove to be too powerful. His healing factor is already in competition with Wolverine, Hulk and Deadpool`s healing factors (although Dante recovers from injury a lot faster) but with Devil Trigger he stomps the competition into the ground similar to how Goku stomps his enemies into the ground once he receives a zenkai or goes Super Saiyan. Even if you were to argue the idea that Dante wouldn`t be able to exceed in any category when up against Bayonetta this transformation will shoot that argument down and compare what you deem as true to what it can demonstrate in front of you. Dante will be healing way too fast for Bayonetta`s attacks to matter even though I don`t see her summons tagging him anytime soon and her weapons will be useless, Devil Trigger only makes that obvious.

This video is very informative when it comes to this transformation. Dante`s power increases and his resistances along with his reaches evolve into something far more advanced.

Dante with DT (a couple of seconds of it) was able to stomp Abigail the anime is canon and takes place after DMC1. Dante grows more powerful each time passes by and he grew so powerful to the point where demons like Abigail who were once considered as rivals to Mundus pale in comparison. Abigail was busting skyscrapers, destroying a city casually, affecting things on a continental scale and allowing demons to pour through from the demon world to the human world yet Dante demolished him without having to go all out 100 percent. I will provide a more elaborate breakdown.

Abigail:

Devil Trigger really does boost Dante`s stats and I don`t see how Bayonetta would be able to compete, and this is not Dante`s only transformation he has more than one.

In Devil Trigger mode, Dante won`t have any problems with using Quicksilver or any of his other time manipulative abilities considering how it will last indefinitely and infinitely thanks to his Super DT mode (more so Sparda DT) so the "Bayonetta`s Witch Time is better and lasts longer" argument really doesn`t add up or apply in the way in which you are trying to advertise it.

And of course this is the DMC1 showing for Dante going DT when equipped with the Sword of Sparda which is his father`s famous sword. Not only is he granted flight which will give him an edge over Bayonetta but he also is granted with the ability to conjure up godlike supernatural dragons that are powerful enough to break through Mundus` reality warping barriers and cancel out the effects of his attacks. Dante can also conjure up fireballs, and the Sparda blade is extended during the time this form is active. Dante easily has enough firepower to take down Bayonetta`s summons while in this form.

Dante`s Versatility and Hax:

Now you BLATANTLY ignored my arguments when it came to this issue. You just said "well it`s hyperbole and doesn`t matter" when you know Dante is much more versatile than Bayonetta and he is also more versatile than the enemies she has beaten. This is self-explanatory, Dante has more weapons and more abilities but I will showcase the weapons and the abilities that will really give Bayonetta a run for her money.

Royal Guard:

Here is a link to the wiki just to give you a more straightforward approach to the Royal Guard argument you can`t say that this ability is meaningless when the message is that meaningful.

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Royalguard_Style

This ability gives Dante the following abilities and attributes:

• Millisecond reaction time
• It blocks and negates all damage
• It can heal Dante
• Redirects all damage and increases the damage dealt
• Grants Dante a transformation

This ability alone proves that Dante is more skilled than Bayonetta. It`s an ability that`s sole purpose is to teach the player that Dante is a character that is all about skill and being technical, it`s a technique. I don`t see Bayonetta being able to break through this defense.

Dante can block attacks like the Savior`s Death Beam and he can also block his direct attacks so Bayonetta does not really have a strength advantage to begin with considering Royal Guard is more than capable of negating it.

Royal Guard is a very tricky technique but when mastered it becomes a very trusty technique as evidenced in this video it`s even useful in high paced situations like this.

The Royal Guard technique has been able to block, absorb, negate and redirect the following:

• Lasers
• Lightning
• Fire
• City level attacks
• The Savior`s punches and kicks
• Magical energy
• Bladed weaponry
• Bullets

There`s nothing it can`t block that`s up to the player to decide but Dante`s character capabilities remain consistently clear due to the DEVELOPERS. The only weakness that Royal Guard has is speed and grappling but Bayonetta isn`t faster than Dante, and Bayonetta wouldn`t know how grappling would apply although she`s not the person to use grappling moves that often also Dante would easily outwit her in combat. Now your argument will be "but NeonGameWave that`s a no limit fallacy" well the thing is that Royal Guard is that good and it`s by the intentions of the developers that the emphasis is evidenced that way, it`s a no limit fallacy until proven otherwise by another no limit fallacy there`s nothing it can`t block in the DMC universe and I don`t see Bayonetta of all characters changing that.

Yamato:

Now this legendary weapon doesn`t need much explaining or introduction. It was wielded by Dante`s brother Vergil up until the events of DMC1-DMC4, it`s a dimensional slicing katana and it has so far shown no onscreen limitations in regards to what it can do. It has shown to be able to slice through missiles, illusions, Nero`s Devil Bringer Arm (which is invulnerable), dimensional planes and etc. One well placed cut from this sword, and Bayonetta is going down her durability won`t save her from this weapon`s wrath this is why a healing factor is so important, and this is why a healing factor would come in handy when up against a hax character like Dante.

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Yamato

If you need more evidence for this sword`s cutting power other than the Lore (which is more than enough) then let me know and I will be happy to provide the evidence.

BYE Bayonetta.

Response:

* WT is far superior to anything Dante has time/speed hax wise. Saying he can resist it is a no-limit fallacy.

This you have yet to prove. I have provided evidence for Dante in regards to his time manipulation and time manipulation resistance. A no limit fallacy is different by definition I SHOWED PROOF and I could reverse this argument for Bayonetta.....This is a very weak and lame excuse as to why WT is superior it`s fanboyism at it`s finest.

* Him being able to bring down her summons is not a certainty, and she uses summons as finishing moves and not as a go to during the fight.

It is a certainty considering what I showcased for Dante during this debate so far. And she uses them on fodder opponents who are already weakened and stunned, and I doubt Bayonetta would be able to bring Dante to that point.

* Accuracy is still debatable and since Bayo tanks bullets for breakfast while Dante does not, this is his fight to lose.

No it`s not. What you showed for Bayonetta so far and I what remember from Bayonetta is more so comparable to Dante at the age of 18. What? Same with Dante he tanked bullets to the head during DMC3.....

* The whole skill and versatility argument is a hyperbole and not really relevant.

REALLY NOW? Versatility, skill and hax is very relevant considering Dante is already faster than Bayonetta and his healing factor will outlast her durability. Also, Bayonetta has never went up against a character like Dante before while you cannot say the same for Dante he`s faced opponents who are at least similar to Bayonetta and she doesn`t bring anything new to the table her only neat trick is her ability to summon.

Oh if that were the case, it would be a stomp honestly.

I wouldn`t be too sure about that if I were you........

"Dante is kicking it back to you"

IN CONCLUSION:

• Dante is faster than Bayonetta and the fact that you are hanging onto the argument of comparison when it comes to DMC3 Dante proves my point considering that is Dante at his weakest.
• Dante is more skilled than Bayonetta and more versatile you ignoring it doesn`t make it less relevant it only brings the real element factor my argument considering your acting on ignorance more than the informative.
• Dante`s healing factor allows him to endure through situations that would outright kill Bayonetta and his healing factor is high-tier it doesn`t have much to prove or say because there`s no need for it to. His Devil Trigger form will add to this and it increase his durability, Bayonetta won`t be putting down Dante anytime soon especially considering the enemies she has a track record against their durability, healing factors and survivability doesn`t come close to what I have concluded with Dante.
• Dante is the better fighter and more tactical thinker, Bayonetta is clever and conniving but Dante has proven his skill and worth against other skilled and worthy opponents also he`s a natural talent. Being the son of the greatest swordsman throughout all of the Underworld speaks volumes and Dante masters every weapon he gets his hands on. Like the versatility argument this argument too is WAY TOO obvious.
• Dante`s weapons will be able to easily put down Bayonetta considering she lacks piercing durability, tanking her own bullets (which seemed iffy at best) isn`t enough to say she wouldn`t be pierced or sliced to bits by weapons like Rebellion and Yamato.
• Dante already can easily evade, avoid and dodge Bayonetta`s attacks from her and her summons as he can also easily tank and recover from any kind of damage that Bayonetta manages to dish out but thanks to techniques like Royal Guard bringing down Dante is now completely impossible. He can redirect all of Bayonetta`s attacks back at her and absorb all the damage and he can also heal from all the damage.
• On top of Dante`s speed and reflex advantage is his ability to teleport, and his ability to fly so the maneuverability and mobility advantage also goes to Dante he already can jump really high, do back flips, glide, and pull off ridiculous stunts but adding in everything else makes him a devil of the skies.
• I have been holding back when it comes to Dante`s versatility I will showcase more of his weaponry in regards to how it will beat out Bayonetta.
• Dante will DEFINITELY beat out Bayonetta when it comes to time manipulation, your arguments were very poor and unreasonable IMO. Your trying to argue that Bayonetta`s Witch Time is better because of the logic surrounding the falling rocks but you fail to debunk or deconstruct the actual ability and the fact that Dante has many other abilities which allow him to manipulate time, that are not called Quicksilver. Dante unlike Bayonetta has resistance (feats) to time manipulation and has already faced other time manipulators so Bayonetta is at a pretty huge disdvantage considering resisting Witch Time is not impressive when Bayonetta herself can use Witch Time and is accustomed to its effects. Also whose not to say that Quicksilver wouldn`t be able to cancel out Witch Time? Bayonetta does not have the advantage here, your bias is making you believe that. And the fact that you didn`t even bring up Bangle of Time, Chrono Heart and etc., just proves this to be true. Comparing it to a NLF is just desperation on your part to make Dante look inferior when Dante actually has feats showcasing resistance to time and magic as opposed to Bayonetta who lacks such feats I think your argument is in reverse. Dante`s time manipulating abilities have a greater chance at affecting Bayonetta and making her significantly more slower than she already is when compared to Dante and its in that time that Dante would surely defeat her.
• Bayonetta`s strength is really great but it`s not her greatest advantage that goes to her summons. Now with Dante`s speed, skill and experience, Bayonetta`s strength WILL NOT be an advantage in this fight. He`s beaten opponents who were stronger than him and he`s faced too many skilled opponents for him not to apply his experience wouldn`t make sense. Dante has way too many options when it comes to strengthening his advantage against Bayonetta`s strength advantage, also he can definitely compete with her strength and come back from whatever she has to offer in terms of damage.
• Your argument about Bayonetta`s durability is fallacious considering a good durability is a really bad durability on a bad day while you can`t say the same about something that is unpredictable as a healing factor. Dante will recover from Bayonetta`s attacks, and he will be taking less damage due to his speed, skill and time manipulation abilities also Doppelganger will minimize the damage as well. Bayonetta will be taking a lot more damage from Dante`s weaponry and based on the fights as well as scenes that you have shown for Bayonetta what it tells me is that she can be taxed quite quickly and put to shame by lesser characters.
• Using Hideki`s words as a way to cheapen your argument and cheap-shot mine is not going to get you anywhere especially when the joke has been overplayed.
• You barely addressed my arguments in their proper context you only skimmed through them and threw in bias logic to lowball Dante to lower levels.
• Everything that I showed for Dante so far was him at a weaker point in his life and Dante likes to have fun he`s casual so he holds back a lot the only characters that have been able to push him are Vergil and Mundus (to some degree) but DMC2 Dante is the most powerful character of his universe.

Now Bayonetta is good but Dante`s the best for a reason and he was created with a cause, he came first and he will always be first.

It`s okay I understand and you did a really admirable job with your counter :)

I finished my response.

@neongamewave@cpt_nice

Wow. Tag please

@neongamewave: I expected nothing less of you. I will try to get my post up tomorrow. That will be round 2, right? And then we both end on a closer?

Thanks for the kind words and I`m looking forward to it :)

Yep, our next posts will be our closers.

My turn again

"As long as there is music, I will keep on dancing..."

She does but my point still stands as it still applies. Bayonetta is strong and she is stronger than Dante however MOST of that over the top strength comes from her ability to summon massive demons which is why her best feats come in the form of the QTEs that require for her to finish off an enemy with her summons and she still lacks the necessary speed to be able to put that strength to good use against a character like that Dante.

I do not see how that is relevant in the slightest, as her own strength feats (sattelite and skyscraper) are still magnitudes above Dante's strength level. Headbutting an entire skyscraper of several thousands tons? Yeah, Dante would be a pancake if he tried that.

What I mean is that Dante`s overall ability and capability succeeds that of Bayonetta`s which would include her strength, not really it`s more so him displaying strength via skill he`s not smashing through things like the Hulk or Thor...

Sure, but Bayonetta has such superior strength that she is literally within one-shot range if she gets a good hit on him, something you did not really address.

I agree but it wasn`t supposed to compare it was just proof in regards to showcasing why Dante could challenge Bayonetta in this category and he makes up for it with his speed, versatility and skill.

That is a funny way of saying "well ok, my feat did not really match up anyway, but there are other categories too!". I think you mostly proved that in this area, Dante is outclassed, by a lot.

It doesn`t change the fact that the object was a skyscraper

Actually it changes a lot. Physics and such. But feel free not to address that.

Bayonetta may be able to bat away massive objects at alarming speeds but if she cannot tag the Son of Sparda then she might as well give up and call it day. Dante has other strength feats that will prove to be useful when up against Bayonetta that wasn`t his best one...

Sure, but if I can show she has a good chance of tagging him, and we establish his strength and durability do not match up, you might as well call Bayonetta one-punch woman.

It is more impressive in dimension, width, length and etc but it doesn`t really matter as I have already proven.

You have not proven anything. Anyone who is not blind can see that tower did not compare at all to Bayo's skyscraper, and the laws of physics (changing an object's trajectory vs hitting a stationary object) do not stop applying because you gloss over them.

Dante`s feat was still performed in base he did not use DT or his speed, he just stood there and demolished the demon gate also he did it casually.

He used an item/gear, therefore it is not base imo. And he also charged up his attack, it is not like he just tapped it and it came down. Not that it matters though, since that feat is peanuts compared to Bayo's.

he was more so playful and childish but when he did he moved many times more faster than his enemies also Dante is A LOT more skilled in H2H combat.

This is a leap in logic. And unproven so far.

It would have to weigh more than 100 tons at the very least considering it`s size and mass also the dead weight force that would have to be factored in.

How did you come to that conclusion?

I think you are overplaying the skyscraper feat a little too much.

You have yet to provide a decent counter argument. You train of thought for Dante being in the same league strength wise is very weak.

He barely tried when doing so and he was fighting with the Savior for hours upon hours also he did it casually without DT...

I think we have a very different definition of what counts as casual.

He did resist Nero`s arm, he held him back. I already pointed out that Nero was charging up his Devil Bringer Arm but Dante has shown that he can hold back a bloodlusted Nero`s arm during their fight.

it is still an indirect scaling feat, and without calcs from you, it does not match up to Bayo's feats.

Dante still beats her in speed and skill also his prowess is superior to hers. He`s had more time to develop his abilities and combat capabilities are much more cutting edge. That`s if she can tag him and I doubt it considering Dante`s speed when holding back (he`s still hypersonic+) and not using any amps or time manipulation, Bayonetta`s speed pales in comparison and Dante has too many options when it comes to being able to avoid her attacks.

I think we can just both agree here that Bayo is A LOT stronger but that it won't matter unless she can tag him. Which I obviously think she can, and you think she can't. So I will just have to address that further down the line.

Dante tanks fire hotter than lava, ice colder than subzero, lightning, demonic energy, magical oriented attacks and etc. She blocks while Dante tanks and recovers from piercing damage in no time without the need for DT

I do not think Bayo ever tanked ice or anything, but some of the enemies she fight spew fire at her. Seeing as how a lot of them also magic and/or holy oriented attacks (them being demons and angels and such), she also has magic resistance.

@neongamewave Eurgh, CV still has that bug that makes it impossible to embed vids, and now my post got eaten. Would it be ok if I take a bit longer?

Yeah, that`s okay, that happened to me a couple of times, I understand, it wouldn`t be a problem at all :)

@cpt_nice:

Are you finished with your post?

@neongamewave: I don't really have time to work on this atm, especially considering your extremely meaty last post which I cannot do any justice at this point in time. I will just forfeit the debate.

Fair enough.

It was awesome debating with you, that was a really amazing breakdown you did with Bayonetta =D

@neongamewave: Thanks, you obviously know a lot about Dante and it was a great case you made :)

Wooow i love this debate