King Kai had trouble tracking Goku’s speed while he’s in the spaceship which was at least moving 300X the speed of light.
Goku’s spaceship got to Namek in 6 days, it takes light 5 years/1825 days to get to the closest star coming from Earth. So the ship was moving 304 times the speed of light if it was the next solar system to ours.
King Kai sensing and tracing Freiza, he can see him from long distance and short distance. At 2:30
Here King Kai surprised at Goku N Freiza’s speed in battle. He said “Unbelievable! This has never happened b4, their moving so fast that even I can’t follow their motion." It’s a speed that he hasn’t encountered b4, and clearly they were moving faster than the spaceship. In Japanese sub he said " Impossible! That I should lose sight of them- what speed! " And he also said it just right after they were moving in one direction. Starts at 5:20
NOTE: The spaceship must be moving faster than I calculated coz Goku passed by a solar system b4 Namek. But 300X speed of light is their minimum speed. They didn’t say their speed stats directly but they gave us clues throughout the show.
Another speed feat
This next video isn’t actually just a reaction time feat, it’s also a speed feat. A Bomb explodes at 500 billionth of a second. Goku was trapped/immobilized in the center of the fireball occupying space, Goku has to have 500 billionth of a second reaction to to react to the explosion and escape it.
Light can travel 1 foot/nanosecond Since this event is occuring at 500 billionth of a second (1/500 nanosecond), Goku has to be 500X the speed of light to be a foot away from the center of energy ball and outside of it at the moment of explosion to be unharmed.
Also Frieza’s bomb should explode even faster, real life bombs have to undergo fission reactions that converts matter to energy b4 it explodes, and Frieza’s bomb is already an energy ball, so it skipped the fission process so it might explode even faster. So Base Form Goku should be at least those speeds in the Namek Arc.
King Kai had trouble tracking Goku’s speed while he’s in the spaceship which was at least moving 300X the speed of light.
Goku’s spaceship got to Namek in 6 days, it takes light 5 years/1825 days to get to the closest star coming from Earth. So the ship was moving 304 times the speed of light if it was the next solar system to ours.
King Kai sensing and tracing Freiza, he can see him from long distance and short distance. At 2:30
Here King Kai surprised at Goku N Freiza’s speed in battle. He said “Unbelievable! This has never happened b4, their moving so fast that even I can’t follow their motion." It’s a speed that he hasn’t encountered b4, and clearly they were moving faster than the spaceship. In Japanese sub he said " Impossible! That I should lose sight of them- what speed! " And he also said it just right after they were moving in one direction. Starts at 5:20
NOTE: The spaceship must be moving faster than I calculated coz Goku passed by a solar system b4 Namek. But 300X speed of light is their minimum speed. They didn’t say their speed stats directly but they gave us clues throughout the show.
Another speed feat
This next video isn’t actually just a reaction time feat, it’s also a speed feat. A Bomb explodes at 500 billionth of a second. Goku was trapped/immobilized in the center of the fireball occupying space, Goku has to have 500 billionth of a second reaction to to react to the explosion and escape it.
Light can travel 1 foot/nanosecond Since this event is occuring at 500 billionth of a second (1/500 nanosecond), Goku has to be 500X the speed of light to be a foot away from the center of energy ball and outside of it at the moment of explosion to be unharmed.
Also Frieza’s bomb should explode even faster, real life bombs have to undergo fission reactions that converts matter to energy b4 it explodes, and Frieza’s bomb is already an energy ball, so it skipped the fission process so it might explode even faster. So Base Form Goku should be at least those speeds in the Namek Arc.
first scan was never in the manga so nice try don't see what the second scan proves third i already answered KK never said anything like this in the manga about the spaceship last one is again not true since this is ki not a bomb itself and goku has shown to be WAY slower then this later on
Hi. I just wanted to contribute to this discussion with a few of my concepts. I'm not exactly looking to start another debate. Feel free to clarify any points if you think I'm wrong.
First of all, let me get some things clear. I know the anime isn't considered canon, but a lot of things in it are based on the manga and in Toriyama's concepts. Many times it is easy to notice when the scenes are there just to serve as filler or when they are trying to be truthful to the manga.
In the anime there are a few fights (I can only remember 2) in which the Z fighters' movements are clearly depicted as being undetectable by human eyes and senses. The fighters become invisible to the camera and we can only hear booms and occasionaly we see some dust, etc. Is this not lightspeed? I'm not very familiar with Flash in the comics, but it seems that his "base" speed is shown to leave red traces, streaks or blurs, while the Z fighters are shown to disappear completely.
Although there is no conclusive evidence that Goku can reach lightspeed, here is what I think that is probably true:
- Goku has been shown before as posessing superhuman running speed, though it is nowhere as near as Flash's.
- Goku can fly at supersonic speeds, maybe even faster.
- Goku can use IT (which is above lightspeed) if he can at least see (or trust?) where he is going. He does not always have to lock on someone's Ki. He only has to lock on a Ki if he is going somewhere unknown, very far or if he specifically wants to teleport himself near to a person.
- By concentrating Ki, Goku, as the majority of the Z-fighters, can move ('zap') at lightspeed at least inside the close range of a fight. This way Goku can instantly move toward his opponent or avoid attacks. However, he does not seem to be able to remain in lightspeed for more than an instant, though I believe in the anime it was implied that Goku and Cell were exchanging blows and doing complex stuff all the while they remained at lightspeed. Now, what I think many of you guys are failing to understand is that the Z fighters concentrate Ki to be used for various things during the show. They concentrate Ki to fly, to manifest energy (plasma beams etc), and to be able to 'zap' at superspeed. Now tell me, if Goku can concentrate enough energy to destroy the moon for example, then would not that same energy be more than enough to propel his body at lightspeed (or above lightspeed) for at least a short distance? What makes you think that Goku cannot channel energy for this specific purpose? Lack of training? He already has the power to do it. The anime has shown Vegeta being able of minor telekinesis, Piccolo with after-images, energy shields, etc They can do a lot of stuff with their Ki. They can even use their Ki to hide their Ki.
If you take everything in account (i.e., strength, speed, stamina, durability, etc) , even a SSJ Goku's power level is greater than Flash's. I dunno if Flash can access his "infinite power" based on speed whenever he wants. In the JL cartoon, Flash is only able to access it after he becomes enraged with Luthor. Like Hulk, Flash is able to access an infinite source of energy, but this does not mean that he can do it whenever he wants. I think that Goku could take Flash out before Flash could even begin to become angry, determined, worried or whatever.
Another important thing is that all the Z fighters possess a sixth sense. They can feel when powerful energy is around and they can do this efficiently. As others have said here, Ki is not used in the DC universe, but the concept is pretty much multiversal. It should apply to the DCU as well.
It is pretty clear to me that Goku can at least avoid some of Flash's attacks. He can defend himself. Add to this fact that Goku is as durable as Hulk or Superman, though maybe not as the strongest incarnation of these two.
Finally, I don't think that Flash can vibrate his fingers through anything. It will depend on the molecular density of the substance that Flash is trying to penetrate. As Hulk, the sayans have been shown (it was mentioned once) before as posessing an incredibly "hard" and "dense" bone and muscular structure. Flash would not be able to pierce Goku's skullcap like cheese. I mean, can Flash vibrate through adamantium? Or through Caps' shield? A Sayajin's physical density is very high. Remember that Sayajins are giant monkeys trapped in a human body. All that size is compressed into a tiny little body. Body density is a concept at least accepted in the Marvel universe. In physicas, energectic density has to do with vibration. The greater the density, the greater the rate of vibration per unit of area. If Goku's body is dense enough, Flash would have to keep increasing his vibrational "speed" to infinity which might be too dangerous or difficult for him.
@gushen: The only problems I see in your post are usual ones, first and formost, just how fast lightspeed is. At the speed of light, you could travel around the earth 7 times in one second. Other then IT, Goku has no speed feats even close to that. even gotenks, while boosting around showing off, only got around the earth 9 times in 30 minutes. compare 9 times in 30 minutes to 7 times a second, you see a speed difference, and while goku may be faster then gotenks, it's not enough to make him close to lightspeed. And as he has to see or sense Flash to use IT, and since Flash can run faster then Goku can think, I just see Goku suffering a IMP to the gut.
EDIT-and then I realised how old this thed is, sorry to dig it back up...
Sure is a lot of Flash love on this site.I say Goku. He takes punches that shatter mountains, and while not Flash fast, he is pretty damn fast. Plus, Goku is far stronger.
" Sure is a lot of Flash love on this site.I say Goku. He takes punches that shatter mountains, and while not Flash fast, he is pretty damn fast. Plus, Goku is far stronger. "
Flash is a speed thief, he could easily steal Goku's speed if it ever became a problem which it most likely wouldn't.
" Sure is a lot of Flash love on this site.I say Goku. He takes punches that shatter mountains, and while not Flash fast, he is pretty damn fast. Plus, Goku is far stronger. "
Flash's infinite mass punch is the force of a white dwarf star condensed. Goku is no where near as fast as Flash is and Flash can steal all of Goku's speed turning him into a living statue
" Sure is a lot of Flash love on this site.I say Goku. He takes punches that shatter mountains, and while not Flash fast, he is pretty damn fast. Plus, Goku is far stronger. "
Flash's infinite mass punch is the force of a white dwarf star condensed. Goku is no where near as fast as Flash is and Flash can steal all of Goku's speed turning him into a living statue "
Even if Goku is in a statue state, he can also steal Flash's speed and power by removing his ki engery. So Flash can be a sitting duck as well when his power is being channeled towards Goku.
" Sure is a lot of Flash love on this site.I say Goku. He takes punches that shatter mountains, and while not Flash fast, he is pretty damn fast. Plus, Goku is far stronger. "
Flash's infinite mass punch is the force of a white dwarf star condensed. Goku is no where near as fast as Flash is and Flash can steal all of Goku's speed turning him into a living statue "
Even if Goku is in a statue state, he can also steal Flash's speed and power by removing his ki engery. So Flash can be a sitting duck as well when his power is being channeled towards Goku. "
@Cypher's Gambit: You are using DBZ logic...and it failes......Ki is lifeforce in real life,in DBZ its not rly the same.Other than that,Flash moves immensly faster than Goku thinks,before he evens begins to do anything Flash can deliver several thousand IMPs in a second.Basicly if Goku can survive the first IMP onslaught he is simply gonna get KOed in the next 3-4 seconds.The only way that Goku can avoid Flash is if he doesnt get to the ground,and if he stays in the air he can only shoot KI blasts which are DEFINETLY not gonna hit Flash cuz he is just TOO FAST.And if the battlefied is Earth or any other planet with sentient life Goku is not gonna destroy the planet.
I honestly didn't think the thread was bumped to be considered a bttle, frpom what i read in the person who did it's comments above. As he did say he didn't want to start a debate about who'd win. But in all honesty, i've haad a few things I wanted to say about Flash, and Zoom.
But first I want to compare some speed from the anime to the speed in a comic.
When Goku was fighting Jeice and Burter, they fired blast at him, that looked to go strait through his body, and Goku looked to be standing completely still. But only Vegeta who has highspeed trained eyes was able to see what happened. The ground had scorch marks from the immense speeds Goku had moved to make it look as if he hadn't moved at.
Marvel Camparison: Gladiator battled Hyperion. it said that while they looked as if they were standing still locked in a test of strength, both were actually swinging blows at speeds registered in the picoseconds.
So if pico seconds are what is registered as the speeds to be moving so fast that you appeared to be standing still, wouldn't that also apply to Goku doing the same thing to Burter and Jeice?
Another speed feat of flight Goku being on the other side of Nameke, Planet 10 times the size of earth (Possibly), and on panel he made it to the other side before Frieza who had already raised his hand, could drop it to deliever the killing blow to Vegeta. Thats pretty darn fast though.
But here's my thoughts on Flash and Zoom. While i love the Flash, the main reason i did was because it seemed he wasn't a God like being like Superman, and still had sme humilty about him. Now i'm seeing comments on these boards about him, and Zoom saying they would crush beings the levels of Darkseid, and Thanos basically using SPEED. WTH, so people are pretty much saying Zoom and Flash are truly the most powerful mortal beings if not the most powerful beings in humanoid form in the DC universe, and could level half the marvel universe.
i'm now hearing these 2 could hit harder than even Superman...Seriously! If this is the case, why hasn't Zoom simply taken over DC Earth since no one in the JLA can beat him, but Flash?
Is all that is being said about these 2 true, or is it simply fanboy ranting, and good ole guessing?
DBZ is way too inconsistent to be putting in battle threads. One minute Goku is cut by a piece of glass, the next minute he's tanking planet busters. Let's just say flash phases his molecules through Goku and wins because no matter how powerful Goku is he can't stop a phasing attack that bypasses physical defenses. Nothing Goku can do to stop it because he isn't as fast.
@Warcry80: That is a very good analysis and also i think people severely underestimate DBZ characters punching power, They might not be able to press thousands of tons like powerhouses such as Supes, Thor etc but their mastery over Ki gives them unbelievable punching power, people also forget that Goku is essential to the Universe and has on occassion shown crazy feats such as being able to bring creatres back to life, he tanks energy waves which can destroy planets effortlessly and his instantaneous movement can mean the end of Flash as even if Goku cant kill him by catching him he can annihilate the earth and transport himself somewhere else thats the major problem its Flash cant fly although his speed would make most people look like slugs.
Calculate the speed at which his kamehameha was traveling, it reached the sun within a matter of moments
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