Dream/Morpheus vs Mr. Mxyzptlk

Dream of the Endless (Morpheus) VS Mr. Mxyzptlk

-Win by any means.

dream man

Well, mxy can destroy creation with ease, and make it canon (ask clownprince) and beat the ultimator, a which is basically creation by sealing it in plastic in the real world by toon force.

Dream is an extremely powerful entity: basically dream and reality. But compared to full power mxy? Mxy wins.

Normal mxy, the one in normal canon (to beings like superman) series, fully powered should be above normal Spectre, but dream is on par or above full power Spectre, so dream stomps.

@baron_von_santa: I responded to you previously, WF is not canon to the story...

@kingant27: and I told you to take it to clownprince about this. I remember asking him about it, forgot the reason, but I remember he said it is canon.

Otherwise dream stomps. I posted two possibilities IN CASE the first one is not canon.

@baron_von_santa: I did, and I debated with him, and proved him wrong, however he persisted with the same arguement; which still isn't canon to the story...

@kingant27: Actually I saw that, it resulted in a stalemate. But here that is crucial; if you win, then dream stomps, if he does, dream loses.

But according to hypertime, it is. Under pre cruises.

@baron_von_santa: @kingant27: I dunno who Clownprince is, and I don't know the details of this long argument you guys had, but WF is canon to Pre-Crisis.

Jmarshmallow

@baron_von_santa: It wasn't, because he was also claiming that Mxy>LT and Thanos HOTU...

@kingant27: Unfortunately, IF WF is canon, then mxy is the most powerful being there is, surpassing beings like lucifer, nemesis, Destruction, LT...even guys on the highest level possible under omnipotence like Michael, thanks with HOTU, pre beyonder, and the source.

This is why DC is annoying; characters like mandrakk and mxy are either inconsistent or have ridiculous powers like story eating. I mean, that went too far.

But I can not argue with fact, so I just prefer to use 52 universes mandrakk, and multi universal mxy instead of bad story personification mandrakk and toon force mxy.

Mxy has the most and consistent feats to his powers, so he should win if thats the only premise.

That said, if one was to examine what Dream is, the argument could be made that Mxy and the 5th dimensional imps are just a small part of the Dreaming. Since Morpheus, like all the Endless, are dual representatives of both their named function and the opposite of that, meaning Morpheus is both the ruler/caretaker of dreams/imagination and reality.

As it is, the imps (specifically Bat-Mite speaking to Batman) are are products of imagination and ideas given form, which places them under the rulership of Morpheus, who normally has little to no trouble managing the inhabitants of his realm.

@outside_85: The problem is, WF mxy has toon force. Dream controls both dreams and reality, yes, but there are rules someone made, so that he can not utilize his full power. He is nigh omnipresent, and has infinite aspects, but he still could be captured. We don't understand why he obeys the laws, but he does. Even the 'no being omnipresent' rule. And the no killing rule.

But still, dream is much more powerful than normal mxy.

@baron_von_santa: We do know why he follows the rules, it's a big part of the Sandman book and why it concludes the way it does; it's part of his character. He does what he does, because it is his duty to do so, the only one more diligent in his duties to his responsibilities of the Endless is Destiny. As Destruction proved, the only rules the Endless follow are their own self-imposed ones.

Now, there might be a snag in Dream gaining an easy victory here, and that lies in (as you said) he can be harmed, caught and even destroyed (after a fashion) when he ventures outside of the Dreaming. So supposedly who wins this fight is going to be dependt on who is more powerful in the physical world. (Despite us not getting a specific battlefield, I doubt it's going to be in the 5th dimension or in the Dreaming, not for starters atleast)

@outside_85:

Actually, when he was out to fight the three sisters, the raven asked him that question. If they both were nigh omnipresent, why do they travel? Because if the rules. Why are the sister trying to kill him in the first place? Because he broke the no killing your own blood rule. Their rules are old, far older than themselves, who are as old as creation.

And that circle was because of his arrogance. It shouldn't have done anything to him. Even if he ventured outside of the dreaming, when he is both dreams and reality.

Now for this fight, as I have already said, normal dream is on par or above full power Spectre while mxy (pre crisis) in Worlds Funniest has toon force, and is above guys like Michael demiurgos and thanos with the HOTU.

so normal mxy gets stomped.

PC mxy stomps.

@baron_von_santa: But they are still self-written rules that the Endless collectively agreed on, if one killed one of the others, the killer would be fair game to the other Endless. The Furies obeyed their own version of this, which is why they only went after him after he broke it. In regards to age, well the Endless were born along with Creation, Destiny turned the first page of his book when it became, Death was there when the first form of life was born and so on.

Considering he was trapped while already exhausted due to the events of Overture, and then starved by being sealed off with ritual magic (same stuff Prime had to use to pin Mxy down). I think the circle did indeed work, but you are right that it was only his own pride that kept him in it, he could have called on his sister or simply given in to the demands before going back on any promises he'd have to give, but he chose not to, probably knowing that eventually he would get out... even if it took him 80 years of waiting.

I wouldn't agree with you on pre-Crisis Mxy being more powerful than Michael or HOTU Thanos, mostly because Michael for all his power (according to both Lucifer and Desitny) wouldn't actually be able to take the Book of Destiny away from the owner and both of them (while they are apart of 'this' Creation) are going to be picked up by Death if they actually die, thats the rules. Same is going to be true of Mxy, he can't 'unimagine' Dream anymore than the Joker could unmake Batman.

@outside_85: I see you never touched the WF option. Hate him too? But WF mxy IS able to wish away anyone. He destroyed and remade creation instantly.

And overture is just an excuse: even if he just got beat up by the Morningstar he still should not have been bound by that circle. It was ridiculous!!

@baron_von_santa: Because when you say WF, I am thinking Worlds Funniest... which was a crossover with Marvel where he squabbled with the Impossible Man about who had the better playground.

Maybe to you, but so are alot of things in comics. Like Lex Luthor keeping Doomsday sedated beneath Washington or Darkseid falling down a flight of stairs :)

This is so true but to be fair marvel does it too.

@outside_85: In WF he destroyed and remade creation. This is above dream. Hell, this is above anyone who is not omnipotent: the best and worst feat ever.

@baron_von_santa: Is this the Worlds Funniest of 2000? Because if it is, then it's not canon, its Elseworlds.

@outside_85: it is to pre crisis because of hyper time, which was why I am using PC. I mean, without those feats dream stomps

@baron_von_santa: It isn't because it features half a dozen story settings that came after COIE, it just opens as a Silver Age story.

@outside_85: nothing to do with it being canon or non canon though.

@baron_von_santa: It does, as it was printed under the Elseworlds title, it's no more valid than Abin Sur picking Bruce Wayne to be a GL over Hal Jordan.

@outside_85: As I have already said, it is not because of else worlds, hypertime, established by the writers, make it canon. To pre crisis at least.

Written 15 years after the Pre-COIE era ended? No way in hell.

@outside_85: I answered that in the post you quoted. Hypertime. In comics, time in the real world does not matter; in 2013 you can write about comics events that happened 20 or 30 years ago in comic time.

@outside_85: okay, I'm sick of mxy, and mandrakk like characters. CHANGING SUBJECT: Here's a good question: which one is bigger: heaven, hell, or the dreaming?

They are ok. Maybe too op for Marvel or maybe most cosmic beings.

Hypertime has never allowed anyone to bring feats from the pre-Crisis world into the post-Crisis world.

@outside_85: Except as YOU said, it is else worlds. It is a place with NO time, and the only thing that can bring it time is hypertime

Yeah, mxy is fine, but still. Story eating is crossing the line.

Elseworlds dont count, they never do, it's the same as trying to take the feats of the Ultimate Universe Captain America and applying them to the 616 version or claiming Doctor Doom is actually Black Panters sister Suri. And Elseworlds dont just start counting just because you add some half forgotten concept DC couldn't bother continuing with.

Elseworlds dont count adding the idea of hypertime changes nothing.

@outside_85: for the last time.

Your own opinions change nothing. Else worlds does not count, EVERYONE knows that. Everyone ALSO knows what hypertime (established by the WRITERS, NOT ME) is, which changes a non canon story to canon based on what the writer says. Also, they already mentioned it is only canon to pre crisis.

Adding the idea of hypertime? Like I invented it. You think I like that concept? I like marvel more than DC, but my favorite is vertigo. I do not like something, but that does not mean what I don't like, I disregard (though mandrakk is an exception).

So even though you don't like it, you can't change it any more than I can.

@baron_von_santa: And for the ONE AND ONLY time; ITS THE BASIC RULES OF THE BATTLE FORUMS! deal with it.

@outside_85: why are you now telling me this? And what rule? This is the one and only time, okay, but be clearer in explaining. Though I can do it too:

I'm only gonna say this one time, it's only France!

Listen carefully, everyone says it!

What is only France? Everyone says what? WHAT RULE?

PS: if you mean use current versions then this should be locked because mxy has no feats. If you mean something else, then state it. But now we're talking about mxy and whether it is canon or not, and being vague about a rule is extremely annoying.

@baron_von_santa: Go read the posts on the front page then if so difficult for you. I'm done.

Lord Shaper.

Mxy can only beat Morpheus in his dreams

@outside_85: Are you serious right now? If you want to back away with your pride intact just PM me, and we can figure something out. But if you try to humiliate me in the process with your 'I'm done' meaning 'with you', then understand it won't happen.

1) I just read all your posts all over again, and you have said and given nothing of use; even play (?) dumb; either forgetting that I said both else worlds and hypertime, or accuse me of making up the concept.

2) in your retreat, you were TOO hasty, after I just offered a lot of evidence, all you said was 'it's the basic rules!', a sentence that has no connection with anything. After I asked what you were talking about, you seem flustered, and offered another vague post like I'm interrogating a pirate about his booty.

To conclude; elseworlds is never canon, seeing as most of the time it features imaginations. But, when writers use hypertime, the stories are often put in alt realities, or timelines (obviously in Pre Crisis, with infinite universe, and infinite possibilities). For example: Kingdom come is not canon, but it's sequel, kingdom is because of hyper time; got found out his killing of super mans in those universes are useless because it did nothing to mainstream. Mainstream heroes also crossed over to prevent the threat.

To conclude this fight:

Mxy Stomps.

Mxy gets stomped if we ignore hypertime. (Even through there is no reason to)

If we allow WF Mxy, he wins with ease.

If we don't, he loses.

Mxy should win.

Dream without WF Mxy Feats.

DReam

Depends on which Mxy.

He gave birth to the entire universe in Overture, he was so exhausted he barley had the energy to return home.

Dream wins.

Mxy did call him his ace and he was the only one able to stop Ultimator(by putting her to sleep)