Lol this one was one that needed to happen. we both agreed this needed to happen
The Ever-lovin Blue Eyed Thing. American born and raised.
the socialist guy from Soviet Russia
Morals Off (they going hardcore here)
Standard 616 versions
No BFR
Win by KO/Incap/Death
40 Meters apart.
C'mere he wants to tell you something
Things first appearance was Fantastic Four #1 of course. i mean who doesnt know Marvels best superhero team? Anyways cosmic radiation gave the F4 their powers. in the beginning Ben was only 10 tons... then he soon escalated to 100 tons. all throughout being a rival for the Hulk
I hear it around the vine all the time. "Ben is no longer an even match for the Hulk." and i cant help but think "Whaaaa" look Ben was never really an even match for the Hulk; he was always the underdog. Just for a long time it was only He and Thor who could possibly match him. while that number has increased Ben can still combat the Hulk without it being a suicide mission, but his chances of winning are about 1.5/10 (which is better than what i give colossus which is a 1/10)
Ben is only 90 tons! Bull s*** Hes as 100 tons as it can get, and ill easily prove it
Ben is just made of Rock what even? yes ive heard this before. Ben's appearance looks like Rock, but thats not saying anything about his physicals or anything. And no its not "just Rock"
Ben almost always holds back... dont worry thats not gonna happen here
kind of like so.... though it was once mentioned a long time ago that Ben holds back even against Doom. btw it turns out this was a time traveling Doom but still its pretty impressive.
I plan to prove than Ben is stronger, faster, and more durable. And i think i can do it also. Note none of these are his best
example A: Ben stomps Wonder Man (Wondie wasnt 100%) but Ben knows hes tougher than Simon (dont worry he is)
Example B: tanks them hops from Hercules, Hyperion, Colossonaut, and Thor
100 tonner my butt
Ben was a professional Boxer... that gives him a certain advantage when hes fighting bricks
as you can see he beats Sharon without throwing a punch.
there are a few other showings of skill but still if you look at allot of his fights you can see his underlying skill as a boxer helping him get through many fights.
@serrure: sorry took so long bro, I had to reply to some other matches. Let me get an Intro post up here real quick...
Let me begin by giving some information to the viners reading this. Serrure and I have a history of doing these CaV battles, and we are particularly fond of doing what we call "brick battles" which are strength based characters with high durability.
Here are the links to our previous matches for those of you that have not had the pleasure of reading them (and FYI, Serrure used to go by the username kidman560...):
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-kidman560-vs-cosmicallyaware1-voting-1517322/
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-kidman560-vs-cosmicallyaware1-1556454/
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-kidman560-vs-cosmicallyaware1-1581355/
and another one that wasn't a brick battle just for fun........
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-kidman-vs-cosmicallyaware-vs-oceanmaster-1527992/
so needless to say it was time for us to do another match!! Now Colossus is my favorite mutant, and probably one of my favorite characters of all time, hands down. Now serrure holds Ben Grimm in equally high regard. That brings us to where we are now......
I'm going to keep this relatively brief. HA! Just kidding! I love a good introduction!!! It is essentially important to those that are unfamiliar with the characters, and it's important to never assume that someone knows about the individual being showcased. So with that being said, here we go!!
Colossus was created by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum and first appeared in the second team of X-Men in Giant-Size X-Men #1 (1975). Piotr Nicolaevich Rasputin grew up on his family's farm in Russia. Piotr, his older brother Mikhail Rasputin, and younger sister Illyana Rasputin were all mutants. Piotr's ability to transform his body into organic steel allowed him to work around the farm and help out neighbors with ease. On a fateful day Professor Charles Xavier came to the Russian Rasputin family farm to recruit young Piotr to join his new team of mutants, the X-Men. Xavier was putting together a new team to rescue the original whom were being held on the sentient island - Krakoa. Piotr stayed with the X-Men and began his career with the infamous mutant team and has been an integral part of the roster ever since. His brother and sister have come into the picture since his conception as well and Illyana has had a rich history in mutant lore as the being known as Magik. Mikhail's story is a bit complicated and let's just say he's not a very stable or nice guy.......
Piotr has had many interesting times with the Xavier founded family, too many to recount here but I will state some of them here quickly.......
I know I left out quite a bit, but will discuss a lot of that at some point later on.....
Colossus's Powerset is typical of a brick. He's strong and he's durable as hell. His mutant power is to cover his body with 'Organic Steel' and it makes him look way cooler than being covered in Orange rock. Just sayin....
In his initial creation Peter was roughly a 70 tonner and hovered at that range for quite some time. As he has matured and gotten older he has graduated to the ambiguous 100 tonner range. He has had battles with just about every major brick in the Marvel Universe and will go into that in deeper detail later on.
In his armored form Colossus is invulnerable to most forms of bodily harm. His armor is capable of withstanding ballistic penetration, including that of a 155 millimeter Howitzer shell. He can survive extremes of temperature from 70 degrees above absolute zero (-390 degrees Fahrenheit) to approximately 9000 degrees Fahrenheit. He can survive a collision with a loaded, ten-ton flatbed truck at 100 miles per hour or an explosion of 4500 pounds of TNT. He can also survive falls from great heights while in his armored body. I will cover durability feats later on in the debate itself....
Since Ben's boxing skills have been brought up, I feel this will be quite the topic of contention here. Can Peter fight well enough to hang with Ben? The answer is yes. Peter has done extensive H2H training over his career, and has exhibited Judo moves in the past. He's not just the typical brawler and uses his intelligence to his advantage in regards to his powers and abilities. Once again, will get into that more in the debate itself....
well, let's just say that Peter's moral are typically what saves most of his opponents. That being off here is not going to be such a good thing for Mr.Grimm....
@cosmicallyaware1: ehh....
hmm not gonna lie, Thing has more feats here. You remember when he punched a black hole right
btw this guy was demonstrating properties that confirm him being a Black Hole... a living Black Hole that he knocked over. technically the Ebon Seeker is featless in the the durability feats but he did have the power to destroy the Earth.
bah regardless we can do better.
for a few reasons
1. The Thing actually bloodied WWH (better than how Colossus did, are his arms ok? i was worried for him)
2.in the second panel Ben clearly and easily displays his boxing knowledge. when grappling he provides 2 quick punches the first one setting up for the second.
Its also important to note that Ben does get one-shotted afterwords but again its still a far better showing than Colossus'
and of course one of my favorites, Sending Terax flying through some buildings... pretty sweet huh?
hmm im not gonna say i know Thing is much more durable than people give him credit for. now i know you like to throw around Colossus vs Hulk. I wouldnt bring that up... Thing has had more fights, and better fights against Hulk than Colossus could ever replicate
seems like even in the case of Juggernaut Ben is 1-uping Pitor
and i know you like to bring up the time Colossus got stomped by a Jobbing Gladiator, not sure why you do it, and i certainly wouldn't bring it up here as Gladiator should one-shot Colossus fairly easily
so then i gotta ask what durability feats do you have for Colossus because this is how Ben treats high temperatures
no but seriously
I got Ben tanking blows from a amped Hulk... and he takes em easily
Ben by far and away... Judo is only useful if you actually use it. consistently. Ben has shown his Boxing skill on a more consistent basis.
Pitor isn't the only one who's got years of experience
seriously Ben does not quit.
1. Despite being overwhelmed in every way Ben fights back against Doctor Doom with Surfers Powers
2. He literally drags Namor out of Water and keeps him out of Water. (and you know how strong Namor is)
3. He tanks Ronan's weapon and remains concious
4. he tanks a point blank blast from Klaw (this guy has knocked out Quasar)
Until i can get more of a read on Colossus i cant offer much. However, i can promise you that i still have not shown the best of Benjamin Grimm
@cosmicallyaware1: dude dont worry i haven't been on for like 4 days because my friends practically kidnapped me for spring break and i wont be back for 2 more days
lol, right on brother. I'm workin on it though. Just have a lot of replies to threads that I am working on ATM. You know hoe it goes. Plus older matches that I need to get something up in. Slow roll on this one, we'll get it done though....I like it when there's no rush, makes for better quality posts. And you know how I like to make those long detailed responses........
@cosmicallyaware1: alright im back and im tired as hell... no updat means i can relax (thank whatever God/person/thing you believe in)
sorry bro, I had to wrap up that DSS vs SBP match for that tourney. This thread gets my undivided attention next (and then the She Hulk VS Savage Dragon @wyldsong), I'll have response up ASAP (and promise it won't take a week 1/2 lol)
@serrure: okay brother. Sorry for the delay, let's keep the ball rolling on this one shall we?
hmm not gonna lie, Thing has more feats here
Well, let's look at the amount of years existed, and issues appeared in comparison shall we?
That leaves 153 more issues to perform feats in, no? SO by that reasoning then Ben absolutely has more room for feats. But is is arguable which are more relevant and substantial. Seeing as Benjy has been an extremely favored member of "Marvel's First Family", and not a persecuted group of Mutants....I would say that the odds are in his favor on that one.
You remember when he punched a black hole right
no I don't. Is such a feat even feasible?
btw this guy was demonstrating properties that confirm him being a Black Hole... a living Black Hole that he knocked over. technically theEbon Seeker is featless in the the durability feats but he did have the power to destroy the Earth
Ok, the credibility of this is audacious, you know that right?! This was in FF 229-230 right? Well, you yourself stated that the character was pretty much featless in the durability department, so why use it? That's just silly bro. Wasn't it stated that he hurt himself more than he hurt the "black hole" character? pfffffft. Great example brah.
The Thing actually bloodied WWH (better than how Colossus did, are his arms ok? i was worried for him)
Hey now, Pete held his own against Bruce fairly well there for a minute.
Its also important to note that Ben does get one-shotted afterwords but again its still a far better showing than Colossus
So Ben hit Bruce and got some blood, and then got one shotted. That's better than Bruce acknowledging Pete as a decent opponent if he hadn't just gotten insanely amped up? That's a better showing, riiiiiiiiiight.
moving forward.....
I will lay the battle and my argument out in a structure format. This allows for the debate to be done compartment-ally for the most efficiency. Most of the points you made in sub categories previously Serrure I will address in following sections. Seeing as it may take me some time, I wanted to get this up so you can mull it over.
I will be back shortly with Points 1 and 2. Post after that will be 3 and 4. By then you will have posted, I will do some quick rebutts/counters and flow into points 5 and 6. Can follow up with another round of rebutts/counters and points 7 and 8. Saavy?
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