CAV: All-Star Supes (TDLP) vs SSG Goku (Nighthunder)

The infamous Alpha Centauri feat!

Of course, the comics don't really provide any reference, so let's turn to the movie, shall we?

At this link at 11:46, we see Superman disappear while Lois is in the shower. At 12:06, we see him speed back into the Fortress of Solitude...that's 20 seconds to leave the Fortress of Solitude, get to Alpha Centauri 4 (whatever that is), pick flowers (which he obviously can't do at superspeed) and then get back to the Fortress of Solitude.

According to Nasa, Alpha Centauri A/B are 4.35 light years away from us, or That is to say, it takes light 4.35 years to get there, traveling at its speed of 299,792,458 m/s.

Given that Superman made the round trip in 20 seconds, he effectively traveled there in 10 seconds.

Given that a year has 31,556,900 seconds in it and that 4.35 years have 137,270,000 seconds, dividing that number by 10 we get:

13,270,000 times the speed of light, or 4 x 10^15 m/s.

Now, I'm aware that travel speed =/= combat speed, that Usain Bolt Bruce Lee etc. etc. etc...but at the end of the day Superman would have to punch and kick tens of thousands as times slower than he flies in order to have combat speed as slow as Goku's.

Indeed, Superman could simply fly at Goku with his fist outstretched in a punch.

He's already shown FTL reactions by reacting to a solar flare at 5:10 and flying away from it and putting up his bioelectric shield, as well.

The solar flare comes at him at nearly the speed of light, he flies away, and then extends his bioelectric shield around the ship before the solar flare consumes the ship.

The Solar Flare erupts at 5:13. Superman sees it and flies away from it until 5:16...so clearly, he can instantly accelerate to FTL speeds and easily react to things moving at lightspeed. The Solar Flare then hits the ship at 5:23, taking 10 seconds to get where Superman got in 3 -meaning Superman is instantly 3.3x the speed of light.

Alright, so Superman doesn't have any nifty energy beams or anything. But that's completely fine -those take a hell of a long time to charge up which means that his battle will be fought nearly entirely with punches/kicks.

According to the assistant of Leo Quintum, manager of P.R.O.J.E.C.T. which has been studying Superman for years and made tons of clones and analyzed all his abilities:

This isn't some random girl saying Superman could crack the earth in half.

This is a lady who has been analyzing all of Superman's abilities and says that he could crack the earth in half.

So just keep this in mind as I go on with this.

As shown in the 'battle' with Bar-El and Lilo:

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Bar-El and Lilo threw Kal-El into the moon and it cracked in half

So there are a few things to address here:

1) Bar-El and Lilo later die from Kryptonite poisoning, which Superman reveals he was weakened by. Yup -even weakened by Kryptonite, the Man of Steel only gets a nosebleed from being thrown into the moon so hard it cracked in half.

2) Bar-El and Lilo each have one of Superman's arms with one arm, meaning one of them could have thrown Superman into the moon and cracked it in half.

Now, how impressive was this feat for Bar-El or Lilo?

The gravitational binding energy of the moon as shown here is about 1.2 x 10^29 J.

According to the Wikipedia Article, that's 80% greater than the energy needed to separate the two halves...or crack the moon, which is what Bar-El did when he threw Superman into it. So divide that by 1.8 and voila! 6.7 x 10^28 J.

But wait! Superman obviously has to be stronger than Bar-El and Lilo; and as we know from Kal Kent...

Even in All Star Superman, the more you're exposed to the sun, the better. And Lilo was just getting green eyes when Superman returned, and it's mentioned that Bar-El and Lilo have only been on earth for 2 months...

So, ala Supergirl, these new Kryptonians are weak.

But wait! There's more -as shown, Superman was thrown from Earth's orbit and still managed to crack the moon in half...how much energy would that take?

Well, according to Wikipedia, the kinetic energy released from the world-record hammer throw was 3.4 x 10^3, coming from throwing a 7.26 kg object at 30.7 m/s.

The formula was (1/2)*(7.26)*((30.7)^2), also known as 1/2mv^2.

We already know how much energy was released, 6.7 x 10^28 J. And the weight of Superman is 225 lbs or 102.058 kg.

6.7 x 10^28 J = (1/2)*(102)*((x)^2)

Now we divide by .5 and 102, and get 1.3 x 10^27 for the velocity squared. Square rooted, that's 3.6 x 10^13. Divide that by the speed of light, and...

...holy. sh*t.

120,901 x the speed of light is how fast Bar-El and Lilo threw Supes.

JK. That formula, kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2, is only useful when V is muuuuuch much much much slower than the speed of light. The complete equation is here.

When you do all of that out (not going to bother putting the math because it's effing ridiculous) you actually get 72,897,254,144 times the speed of light is how fast Superman would have had to be going in order to be thrown into the moon how hard it cracked.

Yeah. I mean the formula is still obsolete since you can't go faster than the speed of light in actual physics. But let's continue this sham of a calculation, using the regular formula's result because wtf not.

Given that F=MA, F=(102)(3.6245208 x 10^13) or 3.7 x 10^15.

Now, we all know that throwing=/=punching=/=lifting...but we're talking purely about required force and assuming that Bar-El and Lilo aren't expert tossers, meaning we can easily convert back and forth between the force needed purely in terms of strength.

In the comic, Leo says:

Emphasis on equivalent, implying it would weigh a lot more normally.

But in the movie, Quintum says 'even accounting for the 1/6th gravity' -meaning we're only talking about 33.3 quintillion tons here.

Buuuut we're going to be going with the comics here, because they're the original source. So 400 quintillion tons, given that he was only using one hand...Superman says he can do more in the movies and Quintum says they haven't found an upper limit in the books. But hell, we'll lowball it.

It takes 1 Joule to lift 100 grams of matter 1 meter. 1 ton = 907.185 kg, meaning it would take 9071.85 J to lift 1 ton 1 meter. Superman is lifting the machine slightly taller than he is...6 foot 3 is 1.9 meters, so that would probably be 2 meters, meaning it would take 18143.7 J in order to lift 1 ton in the manner that he did.

So we take 18143.7 and multiply that by 400 quintillion, and we get 7.2 x 10^24 in order to push how much Superman could.

To bring it all back around, Bar-El/Lilo only needed 3.7 x 10^15 of force in this manner to throw Superman hard enough to break the moon - 1,945,945,945 times less than All-Star Superman at the end of the series.

So (1,945,945,945)*(6.7 x 10^28)= 1.3 x 10^38...so he could throw a person into Jupiter hard enough to blow it up a thousand times over.

So let's so a more reasonable estimate, shall we? Maybe they didn't actually 'split the moon in half'.

The weight of Superman is 225 lbs or 102.058 kg, and given that in the movie he was released at 47:30 and hit the moon at 47:32 so the throw took two seconds, and the distance from the earth to the moon is 384,000 km, we divide that by 2 and get 192,000 m/s to put in the acceleration.

F=MA=(102)(192,000)=19,584,000 J needed.

And then for the kinetic energy released, we have (1/2)*(102)*((192,000)^2)=Energy of the throw itself. That's 1.9 x 10^12.

(6.5 x 10^25)/(19,584,000)= 3.3 x 10^18. We then multiply this by 1.9 x 10^12 and get 6.3 x 10^30...about 1/17 the force needed to bust the planet in half just by thrusting his fist at it. Given that Superman has been trained by Batman, well...<_< yeah he can bust Earth.

So on the high-end, Superman can basically make a Big Bang just by punching.

On the low-end, he can bust Earth just by throwing a person at it...

And statements by experts say he can bust Earth in half.

Superman's greatest feat is being able to withstand gravitational forces that could crush Jimmy Olsen to atoms:

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The gravity of the Underverse can crush Jimmy Olsen to atoms, meaning that the gravitational attraction between his carbon atoms and the underverse is so strong it can break covalent bonds.

We're going to be using this gravity calculator to determine just how strong that gravity is.

The weight of a carbon atom (the stuff that makes up Jimmy Olsen) is

2 x 10^-23g.

The force needed to break a typical covalent bond is 1.6 x 10^-9 N.

There are 6 x 10^23 carbon molecules per mole (Avogrado Constant).

One mole of carbon weighs 12 grams.

One carbon molecule is ~ 10^-23 cm3 in volume. So one mole would be 6 cm3.

Gravity acts on the top of Jimmy's head, which is say 15 cm by 15 cm (not a big guy, Jimmy). That's 225 cm^2, 1/64 of a square meter. 37.5 moles would fit in that.

The Radius is going to be presumably Social Spacing.

That means that the last number in the middle line in our gravity calculator, when we set the m1 to 2 x 10^-23 and the Radius to Social Spacing, is going to have to be (37.5)*(64)*(1.6 x 10^-9)*(6 x 10^23) or 2.3 x 10^18.

7 x 10^41 kgs gives us 2.3 x 10^8...about 1/10,000,000,000 of the force we need. So that means something weighing 7 x 10^51 kgs would give us a force of 2.3 x 10^18, which is what we need, but the grav. calculator doesn't go that high.

If Superman, weighing 102 kgs, came into contact with that sort of gravity at Social Spacing (which he did) he'd be coming into contact with 1.2 x 10^43 N per square meter.

Superman's head is about 10 inches by 10 inches, 1/16 of of a square meter, meaning he'd be feeling 7.5 x 10^41 N.

AND

HE

WAS

FINE.

:||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Oh, and uh...guess what? I know my Goku calcs. SS2 Goku as of the Cell Games was capable of producing a Kamehameha of 6.9 x 10^41 J-and that wouldn't even do anything to All-Star Superman but make himbend back.

Oh -and guess what even more?

Bar-El made Superman bend back with a punch.

And as we know previously, Superman is 3.3 x 10^18 stronger than Bar-El.

Care to multiply that?

I did.

2.5 x 10^60.

Superman could blow up the Milky Way by punching it. About 25 Milky Ways, actually.

You can't even comprehend how powerful he is.

But y'know what? I'm feeling generous. Leo Quintum said 200 quintillion tons was 3x Superman's maximum, so let's say, incredibly obscenely generously, that Bar-El and Lilo are only 3x weaker than Superman.

That still puts him at a punching output of 2.25 x 10^42 J. Think about that. That's about 1/50th the energy released in a Supernova, and we're talking if Superman just thrust his hand at you. Given that he's trained in boxing by Batman...well...Supernovas.

B*tch.

Okay heres meh opening statement :

Combat speed

First up , we'll talk about his , combat speed.

The first feat of combat speed we have is this:

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As the name suggests , the solarflare was moving at light speed , ( considering the solar flare literally is light ). As seen , the instant he uses it , goku was able to grab roshis glasses and counter , all before the light hit his eyes. This would give goku light reaction speeds as a kid! and this was only with a PL of 10.

We also see goku reacting to lasers

This wasn't aim dodging as shown when goku dodged it when the laser was moving t him. This furthur proves goku's light speed reaction/combat speed.

And hes done all this with a mere pl of 10. Now then calculation time?

Goku with a pl of 10 had light reaction speed .

Goku's last stated pl was during frieza saga was 150,000,000. Dividing time then?

So now we divide 150,000,000 and 10 to figure out how much stronger goku got.

So , 150,000,000 divided by 10 is 15,000,000. So now we multiply.

Goku's combat speed was 186,000 miles per second now we multiply that by 15,000,000 to find goku's combat speed at ssj1 is: 2790000000000 miles a second. that would give him picosecond combat speed. But wait, we still haven't factored in the gravity formula DeathBattle so brilliantly thought of. TDLP , im sure you already know about it but i'll explain again for the viewers. The gravity formula is a formula thought of by death battle to calculate for goku's weight training and gives gokus abilities a 586x increase . I can't explain it that well , but again , TDLP you already know what it is.

So , 2790000000000 x 586 = 1634940000000000. This would give ssj1 goku femtosecond reaction speeds, now we do other saiyan multipliers .

1634940000000000 x 2 ( ssj2 ) = 3269880000000000 ( still femtosecond)

3269880000000000 x 4 ( ssj3 ) = 13079520000000000 per second combat speed. Thats almost attosecond. And though i agree'd not to speed blitz , this combat speed essentially means all-star supes wouldn't be able to hit goku once

Okay yeah , goku's true striking is unknown , Buuuuuutttt we can try to find it with 2 ways ,

Let's go all the way back to the Namek Saga. Namek is stated in a V-Jump article to be the same size as Earth, and Earth all around is a medium-sized planet.

Frieza in his last form was able to kick back a planet buster from Vegeta, without the use of ki:

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See that? Frieza casually KICKED a attack that was literally STATED to have more than enough power to destroy namek , which was also stated to be the same size as earth .Meaning , planet busting attacks are.no.big.deal . Next we see that frieza is floating in space , all banged up . why is this? Now i know what you're thinking " hes all bangled up because the planet exploded..duh " This simply isn't the case as it would be inconsistent with the fact that planet busting attacks are nothing to frieza , so then why is he all hurt? Because right before namek exploded , goku had to attack frieza when he sucker blasted him. Next we see Cell , who has frieza's cells :

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Meaning , cell had at least some frieza's durability

The Cell Juniors and Cell all have the same durability as Planet Explosion tanking Frieza, because the Cell Juniors are Cell’s “children” and have Cell’s “cells” which includes planet tanking Frieza’s cells:

yet , when gohan went ssj2 he was able to completely bypass their planetary durability and destroyed them , all with a single blow

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Now this isn't power scaling , you know why?

Now see it right there , spit blank proof that goku at ssj1 striking strength could destroy medium sized planets. Meaning , goku at ssj1 had striking force greater than 52 quadrillion MT. And thats not even ssj3.

And vegeta had more power than ssj2 gohan at cell games and was giving it his all against his fight against goku who was again , at ssj2

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Yet goku withstood this.

Anyway , my 2nd way to prove goku has medium sized planet shattering striking force, in battle of the gods , goku was able to Shatter and hollow out king kais planet.

( still looking for video )

Now Jupiter our largest planet in our solar system is 2.4x earths gravity.....king kais is 10x earth imagine how much larger king kai's planet is then ours..

So:

Goku at ss1 could shatter planets with his strikes , and ssj3 is 8x stronger so that means at ssj3 goku's striking strength had the power of 8 earth sized planetary explosions. That means goku's punches have the force of 424000000000000000 MTs , but we didn't even do the gravity formula yet ,

586 x 8= 4688 . Meaning , goku ssj3 strikes have the force of 4688 planetary explosions. Thats 248464000000000000000 MTs of force.

So here we'll Discuss goku's energy output .

In buu saga , theres things called kilis, See kilis measured your destructive capability , stated in daizenshuu , if you had 200 kili you could destroy 2 planets , goku had a kili of 3000 and that wasn't even ssj3 . Now , wanna see how much hes able to destroy? Thats 20 planets at ssj1 , at ssj3 that would be 8x that and would be 160 planetary explosions . Oh and we;re forgetting death battles gravity formula which gives a 586x that. So 586x160 = 93,760 . Hear that pal? goku had enough energy output at that time to destroy 93,760 planets, and to destroy one planet you need , 53 quadrillion MT , that times 93,760 = 4969280000000000000000 MT of force goku at ssj3 is capable of dealing to all star superman with is ki-blasts

For this , i'll use statements from my striking force explanation.

Okay so , Vegeta who had at least medium-sized planet shattering punches weren't able to even seriously hurt goku

This means that at ssj1 , goku had durability enough to withstand multiple medium planetary explosions. Now due to the speed of the punches vegeta was hitting him with , we can't measure how many times vegeta hit him , thus we are un-able to reach a verdict on his durability . However , in deathbattle , they explained that , according to newtons law , goku's durability is = to his maximum energy output. That would mean he had enough durability to withstand 93,760 planetary explosions, however deathbattle was wrong about a lot of things in their analysis . But sadly that is the best thing we have to on for goku's durability for now.