Vision (Avengers) vs Captain Marvel (Avengers)
@ecstaticgraceWhere does Dr. Doom even rank physically? I’ve seen him struggle with Kingpin and his most iconic thing outside the suit was wrestling a Lion. In terms of actual physical strength I don’t think Victor would be above Carol either
Dr Doom has traded blows with Thing, Namor, Overmind etc saying his best feats involve things like struggling with Kingpin and lions is lowball and you know it. I would probably place Carol above Doom physically (which is debatable considering how inconsistent she is) but Vision seemed to do it quite easy which I don't see Carol doing.
You listed him trading blows with people but did he even ever beat any of these people off actually fighting hand to hand or by having superior strength?
I'm pretty sure he has a win over Wonder man back in Giant Size Avengers #3 and has overpowered Dr Doom. Not to mention, the people I mentioned Vision trading blows with like Thing, Wonder man, Pymtron, Ultron etc would all stomp Carol so saying he doesn't have wins over them (even though he does) doesn't mean much.
That Brian Reed instance your talking about where she was on the losing end against Wonder Man
1.) She wasn’t fighting back she was talking him down the entire time
That's incorrect, she threw two punches at him and even said she was done talking.
Ms Marvel #16
2.)She’s gotten stronger since then
No she hasn't. She just gets random high ends every now and again. There is no official amp.
3.) The one time she did lose was against Ionic Wonderman and she went the whole story fighting him offscreen. The same Wonderman beat up Thor and put Rulk to sleep. Given how Simon was being written I wouldn’t see Vision faring better in h2h without his phasing.
Ionic Wonder man and Wonder man are the same thing. Wonder man hasn't received a upgrade since the end of his series in the 90s. You're acting like this only happened under one writer or for a specific time period. There's two instances that don't show her as being close to Simon. Like when she couldn't budge weights designed for Thor, whereas Simon could lift it over his head.
Avengers #175
Carol couldn't hurt Vanadium whereas Simon shattered him completely in one hit.
Avengers #188
Its interesting to note. that it was in this era that Vision traded blows with Wonder man. The Simon who was far more powerful than Carol.
Has Vision actually ever consistently beat someone in physicals because that’s all he has going for him in this fight.
He's kept up with people who could stomp Carol. He can also make himself so durable that people like Wonder man, Thing, Moonstone (who's matched Carol on several occasions) get no sold and can barely hurt him.
And Carol has done stuff like oneshot Blaastar, Corvus Glaive, and beat the likes of Ironman and a hammerless Thor.
Her one-shotting Blastaar is a huge outlier. He's tanked hits from people like Thor, Savage Hulk, Thing, Annihilus (which makes this even more questionable considering she couldn't Annihilus with a blast whereas Blastaar is his peer and even overpowered him) Vision has also beaten Iron man and its not like she hasn't struggled with Iron man in the past (like when she struggled with Iron man, War Machine twice, Hulkbuster etc) Vision also matched Pymtron who tore apart a Hulkbuster in the same issue. She needed to absorb energy from Thor in order to beat him. She's not consistently high tier. She has plenty of crappy feats/inconsistent feats involving people like Colossus, Iron man, War Machine, Doc Green, Grey Gargoyle, Tiger Shark, Annihilus etc
As well as a survive a beatdown from an enraged She Hulk. Which given an enraged She hulk killed Vision I think that’s worth noting. Especially given the fact the She Hulk that Carol fought was stronger.
This same She Hulk got one-shot by Iron man...not to mention Vision here was melted. Vision has tanked people on Jen's tier or higher, like Wonder man, Thing, Savage Hulk, Thor, Namor, Pymtron, Count Nefaria, Ultron, Annihilus etc I'd argue this was a low end. Current She Hulk is a peer to Immortal Hulk, the same Immortal Hulk who Carol admitted she has no chance against even with backup, do you really think this is good writing?
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