Hmm, well I'd put Shuma above dorm, and no one's still sure if we could take Arioch's claim to be as strong as he can imagine at face value.
What we do know is that he was stronger than dark magic Dr. Strange at that point in his journey, and was only beaten because Doc had the ability to steal his powers/body.
Arioch wins if he wasn't BSing about his power (or if he has a really wimpy imagination), otherwise I'd probably give it to Dorm as the idea of him losing to a vassal of another one of Strange's enemies seems sort of off. Also, I don't recall Arioch mentioning anything about him controlling any dimensions himself, and Dorm commands all the power of the Dark Dimension, which is probably a huge dimension since Dormammu would continually conquer other dimensions and merge them with the Dark Dimension.
Tough to say. Dorm has miles better feats than Arioch, who only ever appeared in a few panels. However, Arioch certainly does have a lot of power. By the time Strange had reached Arioch's realm he had become more powerful than his mentor the Ancient One thanks to the tutoring of black magic from the Ancient One's rival, Kaluu. He also had within him eldritch energy from the Old One Ghaszaszh Nyirh and absorbed the magical potential from Victoria Bentley, who was said to have more magic potential than Strange's rival Baron Mordo. Even with all that power, Strange admits that he cannot stand up directly to Arioch's mystic might, which is why he resorts to surprising Arioch and absorbing his very being. Even still, Arioch did turn Strange from a mere mortal to a god, and gave him power to stalemate Shuma-Gorath for a time when combined with all the magic Strange had gained prior (from Victoria Bentley and Ghaszaszh Nyirh). And lets not forget that Arioch resided in a realm that had energy so powerful that not even the Ancient One's peer Kaluu could reach it - he collapsed in the realm prior and was foaming at the mouth. He even had to put up a mystic spell to prevent the realm from killing him completely.
Tough to say. Dorm has miles better feats than Arioch, who only ever appeared in a few panels. However, Arioch certainly does have a lot of power. By the time Strange had reached Arioch's realm he had become more powerful than his mentor the Ancient One thanks to the tutoring of black magic from the Ancient One's rival, Kaluu. He also had within him eldritch energy from the Old One Ghaszaszh Nyirh and absorbed the magical potential from Victoria Bentley, who was said to have more magic potential than Strange's rival Baron Mordo. Even with all that power, Strange admits that he cannot stand up directly to Arioch's mystic might, which is why he resorts to surprising Arioch and absorbing his very being. Even still, Arioch did turn Strange from a mere mortal to a god, and gave him power to stalemate Shuma-Gorath for a time when combined with all the magic Strange had gained prior (from Victoria Bentley and Ghaszaszh Nyirh). And lets not forget that Arioch resided in a realm that had energy so powerful that not even the Ancient One's peer Kaluu could reach it - he collapsed in the realm prior and was foaming at the mouth. He even had to put up a mystic spell to prevent the realm from killing him completely.
And Dormammu has stalemated Eternity.
Though how much Arioch is above Dr. Strange, who is below Arioch, would possibly make a case.
But Dormammu has shown to be able to tap into his realm's power, even in another location, and he has defeated Gaea, the fountainhead of all life in the multiverse, if I recall correctly.
Tough to say. Dorm has miles better feats than Arioch, who only ever appeared in a few panels. However, Arioch certainly does have a lot of power. By the time Strange had reached Arioch's realm he had become more powerful than his mentor the Ancient One thanks to the tutoring of black magic from the Ancient One's rival, Kaluu. He also had within him eldritch energy from the Old One Ghaszaszh Nyirh and absorbed the magical potential from Victoria Bentley, who was said to have more magic potential than Strange's rival Baron Mordo. Even with all that power, Strange admits that he cannot stand up directly to Arioch's mystic might, which is why he resorts to surprising Arioch and absorbing his very being. Even still, Arioch did turn Strange from a mere mortal to a god, and gave him power to stalemate Shuma-Gorath for a time when combined with all the magic Strange had gained prior (from Victoria Bentley and Ghaszaszh Nyirh). And lets not forget that Arioch resided in a realm that had energy so powerful that not even the Ancient One's peer Kaluu could reach it - he collapsed in the realm prior and was foaming at the mouth. He even had to put up a mystic spell to prevent the realm from killing him completely.
And Dormammu has stalemated Eternity.
Though how much Arioch is above Dr. Strange, who is below Arioch, would possibly make a case.
But Dormammu has shown to be able to tap into his realm's power, even in another location, and he has defeated Gaea, the fountainhead of all life in the multiverse, if I recall correctly.
With massive plot device.
In any case, I could see either beating each other depending on the circumstances.
@Prince_RehteStroC: At least Dormammu is comparable to Eternity. Even the Ancient One was.
From feats though, Dormammu curbstomps. But we've seen hardly anything of Arioch or Strange-Arioch.
The Ancient One was never comparable to Eternity. Arioch is by default loads more powerful than the Ancient One seeing as how AO's rival couldn't even make it to his realm.
Yes, I know it was a surprise attack, but the fact that he can affect Eternity alone makes it possible for him to be in his league.
This was after the Ancient One had died due to Strange killing his ego in battle with Shuma-Gorath. The Ancient One had merged with Eternity afterward, so it was essentially Eternity fighting himself.
Yes, I know it was a surprise attack, but the fact that he can affect Eternity alone makes it possible for him to be in his league.
This was after the Ancient One had died due to Strange killing his ego in battle with Shuma-Gorath. The Ancient One had merged with Eternity afterward, so it was essentially Eternity fighting himself.
But what you're forgetting is what happened before this scan....
This was during the issue where Dr. Strange saved Eternity the 1st time under the hands of Nightmare.....
So you must compare Nightmare, to Dormammu to Arioch....
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Nightmare isn't in this battle.
But on-topic, from feats, Dormammu stomps. From implied power, I suppose it's the other way around.
The point I'm making is that if Nightmare was able to capture Eternity twice and almost killed him twice, and Dormammu actually has succeeded in both makes Dormammu more dangerous than Nightmare who's power is based on imagination which Arioch counts on to use his power. So therefore, Dormammu > Nightmare > Arioch.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: I'm referring to egocentric magic as in based on the self.
Also.... you think Cyttorak > Living Tribunal, don't you?
Cyttorak is extradimensional. The Living Tribunal isn't.
If you read Secret Wars, The Beyonder explicitly explains what the Living Tribunal is and what he isn't. In the same arc, he also explains that Dr. Strange has the power to subdue him (Beyonder which non of the abstracts are not capable of) because Dr. Strange has the power of the extradimension of invoking.
Beyonder IS extradimensional just like Cyttorak and Shuma-Gorath and Dormammu.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Still haven't answered my second question........
I did. You just have to look up all the Extradimensional characters.
And I don't get why some people like Cort think that the Crimson Cosmos or the Beyonder Realm is a "pocket realm", when the very definition of "Extradimension" means OUTSIDE. If anything, the multiverse is a pocket realm to the Extradimensions.
Arioch would be an interesting character to bring back. He was seen so little that there's a lot of room to build him as a character and introduce him as a new threat to Earth 616, especially since he was so powerful. Plus his character design is neat.
Hell, if I was writing for Marvel I'd like to retcon the Strange absorbing Arioch thing to Arioch pretending to be forcibly absorbed so as to have the chance of rebelling against his master, Shuma.
If Arioch were to come back, I want the ORIGINAL WRITER writing for him....
Not these DC punks that's been sabotaging Marvel for the passed decade.
I don't think the original writer is still working for Marvel, unfortunately.
Well someone who is at least knowledgeble and faithful to his writings.
The latest Journey Into the Mystery crammed alot of cameos in the story, that forced the younger readers to believe that Shuma is the same as Surtur and Surtur the same as Chthon as Hela... 0_o;;;
If Arioch were to come back, I want the ORIGINAL WRITER writing for him....
Not these DC punks that's been sabotaging Marvel for the passed decade.
I don't think the original writer is still working for Marvel, unfortunately.
Well someone who is at least knowledgeble and faithful to his writings.
The latest Journey Into the Mystery crammed alot of cameos in the story, that forced the younger readers to believe that Shuma is the same as Surtur and Surtur the same as Chthon as Hela... 0_o;;;
That whole Fear Itself arc was total bullcrap. Shuma, Dormammu, Chthon, and Cyttorak wary of the Serpent? GTFO Marvel.
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