100 Mr. Majestics vs Marvel Earth

I don't think restricting reality warpers makes it one sided. Majestic can be a reality warper too, so it limits his side, not just the Marvel side.

You think Mr. Majestic is at the same tier of reality warping as Franklin Richards, Legion and Mad Jim Jaspers?

@ghostravage:

He doesn't have to be at the same level, there are 100 of him. I think 100 beings that can become one with the universe, that instantly move through time and space, that are on the level of the creator of reality, and unlike franklin or Legion, have the mind of an adult (of thousands of years) and the brilliance and creativity that Majestic possesses, would be terrifying. Majestic already does the impossible when he's not capable of restructuring reality with a thought.

@buckshot: Surfer has time travel, Doom has time travel, Strange has time travel, Surfer has cosmic awareness. This allows them to go back in time and warn others of what has/will happen(ed). Surfer's cosmic awareness alerts him to Mr.Majestic's abilities and weaknesses. If he depowers mutants, Iron Man, War Machine, Black Panther, even Hawkeye still have emp and magnetic abilities. No matter what he does, Doom and the others could just keep going back and trying again. Doom could just stop time when anything occurs, locate Mr. majestic and go absorb/drain his powers and kill the rest of them or even absorb them. Doom alone can solo this.

At least you're trying now... Unfortunately these aren't really the standard practices of these characters and unlike Majestic, they're all in character. And even if it were in character, these guys would have to survive to do such a thing. I think taking out Doom would be one of the first things on Majestic's list, so he is one of those least likely to survive to go back and do anything about it. Also, given that Majestic himself has traveled in time to stop disasters, I think he'd have that in mind when in attacking and guard for it somehow. Surfer's cosmic awareness (again, assuming he's contacted, which isn't guaranteed) wouldn't let him know about Majestic until Majestic has appeared, and Majestic doesn't have any weaknesses anyway. I'm not sure what you think EMPs and magnetic abilities will do. Majestic can use tech, but he can also literally destroy armies with a glance. And if he were going to use tech to any extent, I'm sure he'd be ready for EMPs. And back to Doom and stopping time, he'd have to be alive to do so, and the speed at which Majestic could attack (either himself or through some other means) could be faster than he can react. And if he attacks indirectly and Doom does something about it, he won't be responding to the actual assault. As for this power draining idea you have, Majestic doesn't have any sort of energy or anything powering him like the Silver Surfer. He doesn't have power to be absorbed that way. I don't know if it's funny or sad that you think Doom can take 100 bloodlusted Majestic's prepped specifically for him.

@buckshot: Never debating you in a CaV. I'd get annihilated.

Agreed

Someone should create a "Respect Buckshot!" thread. I made this thread with a 51-49 in mind in favor of Majestic, but now it's 100-0 in favor of Majestic...

@monsterstomp: @dondave: Hahaha. Well its not an issue. I don't normally do those. I'm only in one now because I tagged in on one that was going to end prematurely.

@thewhiteronin: I think somewhere a long the way I thought MonsterStomp created the thread lol. Thanks for the thread, its brought me some entertainment.

I don't know why, but I have this desire to post this page:

@buckshot: I feel like Wildstorm got a good look at Marvel and DC comics thinking that they'd pick the best traits out of their popular characters. Then, they'd amp those traits by a ridiculous amount and make their characters practically unbeatable for debates like these... Warblade is Wildstorm's answer to Marvel's Wolverine, Sabretooth, X-23, Daken, and Romulus.. The Midnighter is their answer to Black Panther, Batman, and Deathstroke... And, of course, Mr. Majestic is Wildstorm's answer to Thor, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Superman, Sentry, etc.... The Wildstorm characters practically can beat most Marvel/DC characters, lol.

Warblade is Wolverine in body, but Wolverine is also Zealot and sometimes Grifter (but Grifter is Wolverine and Gambit). Midnighter is ultra violent, gay, faux Batman. Majestic is Superman with shades of Batman and Reed Richards. The reason Wildstorm characters can often beat their counterparts is because their world is a more brutal one and a more practical one (and those two things feed into each other). In a world where your Batman type has to face off against more serious threats and can't get away with letting villains off or healing wounds like a broken back, he has to be much more deadly to survive. And if he's going to do more than survive and actually earn the title of "most dangerous human alive" he has to be even more deadly than that.

@buckshot: Doom, Surfer, and Dr. Strange have (used to) consistently time travel in their histories, Surfer doing it about 3-4 times, Doom being the expert on it, and Strange doing it a ton as Sorcerer Supreme (which he is right now). As for taking out Doom, I'd need to see Creation Blades being more powerful than The Beyonder, Celestials, IG, etc. to pierce Doom's forcefields. Even more, I'd need to see that they're not magnetic (the reason I mentioned EMPs, Magneto, War Machine, etc.) proof that he can hit intangibles, and that he can discern Doombots from real Doom (Doom often uses this as a tactic and this has fooled pretty much 100% of people and entities), and a counter to named abilities before. How does he block time travel? Can't just assume he can. How does he operate? Cause Doom drained the energy from Franklin Richards and Beyonder as well (no power cosmic, just their powers), so it's likely he can drain Majestic as well.

And again, Darwin's adapting, Super Adaptoid has Majestic's powers, intelligence and that of every other hero/villain on earth at once if he wants, which includes clones. Phoenix (don't think she reality warps really) is here, Magik and her stuff, the magnetism I mentioned before. And Surfer is usually called when a world-wide threat happens, like with Cable.

Doom has a crazy arsenal that he should have ready and prepped already in his castle, before he actually does any real prep. Without plot, Doom can take pretty much everyone and anyone logically.

Does Majestic need to breathe? That could be a problem as well with Storm, Thor and others controlling air in the lungs. Also people like Absorbing Man could be a problem if they touch a Creation Blade. Darwin too.

Does he have good soul defense against Hellfire? Against Telepathy? These also need to be answered.

@darkraiden: Reed has no feats on a multiversal level. Picks or it didn't happen.

@darkraiden:

Doom, Surfer, and Dr. Strange have (used to) consistently time travel in their histories, Surfer doing it about 3-4 times, Doom being the expert on it, and Strange doing it a ton as Sorcerer Supreme (which he is right now). As for taking out Doom, I'd need to see Creation Blades being more powerful than The Beyonder, Celestials, IG, etc. to pierce Doom's forcefields. Even more, I'd need to see that they're not magnetic (the reason I mentioned EMPs, Magneto, War Machine, etc.) proof that he can hit intangibles, and that he can discern Doombots from real Doom (Doom often uses this as a tactic and this has fooled pretty much 100% of people and entities), and a counter to named abilities before. How does he block time travel? Can't just assume he can. How does he operate? Cause Doom drained the energy from Franklin Richards and Beyonder as well (no power cosmic, just their powers), so it's likely he can drain Majestic as well.

Just because these characters have time traveled doesn't mean thats how they regularly respond to threats. You keep acting like Majestic needs to beat Doom to win this. He doesn't. But anyway, Creation Blades cutting apart a being capable of restarting reality and cutting him off from his power is pretty significant. If you want to contest that, you'll also have to act like Doom has never been hurt by anything. You keep going back to the same things that I've already shown dont really matter because they're not fast enough to do anything to Majestic and I'm getting bored of it. As for doombots, Majestic can 1) destroy everything and 2) sense souls and wouldnt be fooled anyway. Majestic would prevent time travel by killing the person who wants to travel in time before they can. Duh. Or doing something really awesome like, I don't know, making his own time machine (and even if you can't imagine him making his own, he could steal one from Marvel Earth, it seems like everyone and their mom has one) and take the fight back through time (where Marvel Earth will be even more unprepared and where more Majestics will exist for back up). As for power stealing, Franklin's powers have been depicted as an energy source and Beyonder is a cosmic cube so they have energies that can be taken. A whole lot of your plan seems to be riding on Doom. What a good thing he's never ever lost before, right?

And again, Darwin's adapting, Super Adaptoid has Majestic's powers, intelligence and that of every other hero/villain on earth at once if he wants, which includes clones. Phoenix (don't think she reality warps really) is here, Magik and her stuff, the magnetism I mentioned before. And Surfer is usually called when a world-wide threat happens, like with Cable.

You're just going to keep listing things I've already dealt with right? Darwin's adapting is for survival, not to win fights. His likely adaptation to seeing Majestic will be to teleport away. And the Super Adaptoid has been defeated multiple times by being overloaded. Nice try. The Phoenix isn't even on Earth. Magik and magnetism have been talked about multiple times. The surfer is "usually called" lol. Right. That's why the last example you can think of was Cable.

Doom has a crazy arsenal that he should have ready and prepped already in his castle, before he actually does any real prep. Without plot, Doom can take pretty much everyone and anyone logically.

Lol I don't even need to respond to that one. I don't usually call people fanboys but come on, this has got to be a joke.

Does Majestic need to breathe? That could be a problem as well with Storm, Thor and others controlling air in the lungs. Also people like Absorbing Man could be a problem if they touch a Creation Blade. Darwin too.

roflcopter

Does he have good soul defense against Hellfire? Against Telepathy? These also need to be answered.

His defense against Ghost Rider? Not fighting him. (That's a time saver for me trying to talk to you.) Against Telepathy? Why don't you read the thread again. I actually thought for a moment this was going to get interesting.

Nice

Ultimate Nullifier

I believe Franklin, MJJ and Legion with prep help of Doom, Reed and Pym is going to be more than enough to pull the win.

@buckshot: Buckshot stomps did you really just take on almost the entire thread and won.

@buckshot:

1.Marvel Earth means all people that are present on Earth, which means all demons, gods, villains, etc. . And Dreaming Celestial is/was present there much longer than most of Avengers and X-Men. And as is Zom, if he wasn't BFRd during Chaos War. If OP would mean Avengers and X-Men, he would need to call this thread "100 Majestors vs Avengers and X-Men". I also haven't used all people who ever were on Earth, but who are currenlty (let alone stories that are currently happening, because it would mean that probably today team 2 would change and after week it could change another time and go on) there. Zeus, Shadow King, Legion, Gaia, Tiamut - all these people are on Earth, until we go by what is going on in every current Marvel stories, since Gaia, Legion and Celestials are involved in current stories. .

2.Because he don't normally evolve in this way. I don't recall Darwin running in X-Factor.

3.My point is that galactic potential threat and team made out of every living being on Earth, including ones like Zeus or Gaia, means that this threat is Skyfather level (so prep would be similar to how Odin prepared for Celestials). With Eye of Agamotto, SS's Cosmic Awareness and similar powers of precognition Majestics will be known for Earth, as well as their capabilities and things they will do (time jumps and precognition). Earth will prepare for everything Majestic will make, for his speed and for all his powers. Personally I see Reed soloing this with that kind of knowledge. The same about Doom and Strange. If we imagine what they can do and what they have already done in the past, Majestic can't win it. They can have everything and do everything, because they will know everything. No character below Eternity have any chance with that kind of prep.

4.I've read that comic. Magik wasn't going to kill her or fight reall serious. She also wasn't preparing to this battle, since that girl wasn't a real threat, it was just a traning session, which hardly could be used as a prove that Magik isn't a threat.

5.For us it is rather silly, that anyone would want to defend Majestic, because argument about Zeus and Strange is more than obvious. We're trying to be polite, but we could just say: "Strange with weeks of prep and full knowledge about enemy, as well as about all possible outcomes and his tactics will cast all known spells and prep for Majestic as he did for Shuma Gorath", which ends everything.

6.I've did it already by mentioning people who are above that kind of attacks, above star manipulation, black hole coming etc. Zeus knowing all these things coming for him won't even allow them to happen. You're talking about USA army, Avengers and X-Men (even while, these teams with prep dealt with many galactic level threats), who aren't whole Marvel Earth. And for sure they weren't preparing for Skrulls. Not in this way for sure.

As it was always shown in comics - common enemy allow them to make an alliance with everyone. Apocalypse allied with X-Men more than once. As did Doom with Richards or even Thanos with Warlock, Strange and Surfer. Even Ultron listened to Stark in future when timeline was cracking. It is in their character to cooperate.

Majestic won't attack Doom, because Doom will do all these things BEFORE attack. He will know all these things before Majestic will come to Earth. All of them will know every possible outcome and ever possible scenario coming on them. And it is not true that it would be out of character for them. Doom was jumping in time to learn Morgana's magic and deal with her power, he jumped in time to trick over-universal reality warper and gain boost and knowledge of this being.

Surfer's presence was even mentioned in OP. Surfer will know everything he wants to know, it is just about creativity

Besides, You're talking about Majestic prep in way I doubt he ever used all of it at once, while You have to deal with people who even if would use their prep in one way, it would mean that we already have dozens of types of defences. Doom by time manipulation, with knowledge he would have about Majestic can't really lose it.

Majestic doesn't have a chance. Not with all prep and knowledge. It is immpossible.

Other thing is how easily some people could be covinced by few nice words...

How does Majestic counter Blindfold and Destiny with Doom and Reed. Any possible choice he makes is already for seen and countered

More - all things he will do could be tested in future, by Magik's minions. As well as sorcerors can just make portal around Earth, so anyone who will come to it, will go into Limbo (into Magik...)

@buckshot:

@thewhiteronin: I think somewhere a long the way I thought MonsterStomp created the thread lol. Thanks for the thread, its brought me some entertainment.

Well this is definitely a good feat.. I'll wait to see more showings :P

With assistance from Surfer and with GR there and other powers, yeah Marvel wins.

Small list what does it mean to give whole Marvel Earth prep:

Main rule - speed means nothing, because magic users, a specially Magik can change way in which time is going on Earth.

Dreaming Celestial

Zuras and Eternals - Uni-Mind

Destroyer Armor worn by Gaea, with Galactus Seed boosting her power.

Legion with all his capabilities

Full knowledge thanks to Surfer's and Starbrand's Cosmic Awareness, Eye of Agamotto, Blindfold's precognition and Magik's time powers - which means that all plans and Majestic's tactic will be known for Marvel Earth.

Demons and gods summoned by Dr. Doom, Enchantress, Stephen Strange, Selene, Magik, Wiccan, Loki,Nico Minoru, etc. which can include characters like Mephisto, Blackheart, Dormammu, Chthon, Set, Mindless Ones, Umar, Zom, Zarathoss, Shuma Gorath etc.

Magic barriers, portals around Earth, slowing down time, telepthy, possesion, feelings manipulation, fear mainpulation, soul manipulation, etc.

Prep. machines, robots, army, power dampers, able to took down Phoenix Force or Galactus made by Pym, Richards, Doom, Stark, T'Challa, Amadeus Cho, Beast, Forge, Banner, MODOK, Unit, Sinister, etc.

Weapons and artifacts like:Norn Stones, Grasscutter, Godkiller, Ultimate Nulifier, Ebony Blade, Excalibur, Amulet of Right, Serpent Crowns, Unbinding Stone of Oshemar, etc.

Strategy:

1.Gain knowledge about every possible Majestic's plan.

2.Use power of Galactus Seed or Unbinding Stone of Oshemar to protect whole planet (by Celestial or Zeus).

3.Use second stone to give Magik power to slow down time around. Put Earth into sphere of portals, which would mean that anyony who would try to fly into it, will come to Dark Dimension or Limbo.

4.Prepare high level being to use AoE attack around Earth (it will be blocked with other being standing on Earth. This being can be present there only by soul if it will be choosen as a better option.

5.After battle - restore everything.

Stomp.

@czarny_samael666:

If by Marvel Earth the OP means what you're saying and not what I've been saying, he'd need to say so. It doesn't seem likely though given that he's posted since and seems to be in agreement with me. (And this might be part of whatever language difficulty/difference you have, but I didn't mean just the avengers and x-men. I was providing an example of the kinds of characters people usually thing of when talking about Marvel Earth, as opposed to the spirit of a demon that hasn't shown up for years but might still technically be on the planet.)

But he doesn't normally evolve that way. He evolves defensive measures to survive, and teleporting away fits that description. He may not specifically evolve teleportation often, but he doesn't really evolve the same way every time to begin with so if you're arguing that, nothing he does is "normal". But thankfully, you're incorrect and he has in fact done this multiple times. Just because you don't recall Darwin doing something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Gallery

You say a galactic threat would rally everyone you're talking about, but RIGHT NOW the Earth is under threat on levels rarely seen before on THREE fronts and all these people you're talking about aren't involved. Are Zeus and Gaia going out to face the builders that are on a collision course with Earth? Nope. Are Zeus and Gaia fighting alongside the New Avengers to stop incursions? Nope. Are Zeus and Gaia stepping in to stop Thanos? Nope. Did Zeus and Gaia make a sound at all when the Phoenix was on its way to Earth? Nope. Did someone ring up Silver Surfer at each these events? Nope. You're saying "Of course all these characters that I'm naming that are rarely involved in marvel Earth activities will be involved this time because...." and I'm waiting for you to fill in that blank because if you go by what commonly happens and what's happening even now, it's not the case.

You don't have to kill someone to be ready for them. They were in a training session and Magik was completely blindsided. She was in combat with someone and still couldn't do anything. Heck, she didn't even know what had happened for a while after it had happened. She CAN be caught off guard. Acting like she can't is foolishness. And think for a second. Even if you're right, if she wasn't prepared while in combat with someone what makes you think she'll be prepared for a speed blitz coming faster than light?

Lemme organize this a bit so it's more tidy. This is what you've brought to the discussion: A bunch of characters. The tactic of time recon and combat as standard procedure. And the question of why Majestic would do what I've described. For the bunch of characters, I don't think they are actually involved because it would make it a drastically different fight. If we find out they are, I'll rethink things, but going of my original assumption, my argument being supported by the OP, and by the fact that these characters don't normally involve themselves with threats to the planet anywhere near as much as you'd like to pretend they do, for now, I'll continue to act like they're not involved. Time recon and combat are a more reasonable point. When you look at it though, if it were as simple as you're making it seem, these tactics would get more use. Take blindfold or destiny (is destiny even still alive or are you just picking characters you want to use regardless of that?). These characters can see the future but they don't pass on this information accurately. That's almost standard procedure for people with these powers. If you want to talk about someone with better sense looking forward to the future or coming back from it, I'd point to the example recently with Ultron or even to my favorite universe, Wildstorm at World's End. When something on a truly huge scale happens, even the people right there don't know exactly what happened. So if someone from the past saw the destruction coming, especially if they saw the effects of some of Majestic's indirect tactics, it wouldn't necessarily tell them much about exactly what happened or Majestic himself. And if Majestic uses multiple plans (which he could also stagger through time, nothing says he has to attack all at once) and the time viewer sees one or two and they can make sense of it and prep for it, they'd make themselves even more vulnerable to the things they've now taken their attention away from preparing against because they think they know what's going on. So to summarize that, just to start with, checking the future isn't standard operating procedure, people who naturally see the future aren't reliable, people checking out the future or surviving destruction and coming back likely won't be able to make sense of what actually happened, and what people can make sense of won't necessarily clue them in on Majestic or the full scope of his plans. Now your last point is probably your strongest. You question why Majestic would prep in all these ways at once which he's probably never done. You're right, Majestic has never prepped in all these ways. But two things make me think it's likely for this fight. The first is that he's bloodlusted and willing to do things he normally wouldn't. The second is that there are 100 of him. This means that each Majestic has 99 other Majestic's to bounce ideas off of and it means that while normally they Majestic might only decide to do a couple of these plans, with the manpower to pull off every one of them (and more, because seriously, anything I can think of would be come up with in the first nanosecond of their conversation and after that the ideas would get even better) they can pursue all these plans at once. And let's not forget, Majestic isn't just a superhero. He's been a conqueror for millennia. His was the protege of the greatest Kheran warlord ever to exist. He may not use tactics like I've mentioned as a hero, but he knows invasion and war. Here's a page from his resume:

I think marvel earth below reality warpers should still include hell lords, Olympians, eternals, and omegas in which marvel still wins

@buckshot:

1.I have understand Your point, You mean heroes of Earth, plus some villains that from time to time oppose allien invasion. By saying "Marvel Earth", it means all beings that exist there minus ones excluded from fight, in this case everyone who fights only by using reality wraping. Gods and demons aren't ones.

That is why I belive all these "1,000,000 xxx vs Marvel/DC Earth is pointless". To many prep masters, too many sorcerors, demons, telepaths, gods, cosmic beings, etc.

Yet, if You think about it as as about Skrull invasion, so Illuminati would do what they are doing now against Thanos and Avengers and other teams would do what they were doing against Skrulls, then any prep master out of character could destroy them, since they rarely do anything important. Well... Maybe Doom and Amadeus Cho are different, but that is all pretty much. As much pointless as my version, just in opposite side.

2.Ok, I haven't seen it before. Yet, now Darwin would have to run to other planet (since whole planet is battlefield) , which could be possible, if he would ever do this.

3.Because in none of this situations we've seen "Marvel Earth". We've seen humans, mutants, heroes, etc. But not "Marvel Earth". One side of the battle is "Marvel Earth" which means anyone from Earth, who wasn't excluded in OP. Besides, "galactic level threat" is hardly another invasion on Earth, that won't bother these people. Majestic also has to conquer Earth, which means that he has to conquer whole Earth, including Olympia, Olympus and Asgardia, so this time they will be involved anyway. When Chaos King attacked these places, prep let them made a god that was by himself multiversal level threat, so going by their experience, they should do something similar here.

4.Point of my response about Magik, is that she has prep from OP. If she wouldn't, than we would have completly different question to answer. She wasn't preparing for "galactic level threat" there.

5.Now You're putting words to my mouth. I haven't say that they were normally defending Earth from any threat, I have said that they are a part of Marvel Earth, so they have to be in this battle. Plus mentioned Silver Surfer was also mentioned in OP.

6.Please show me where I have mentioned Destiny, because I don't see it. It was other user, not me.

7.You could be right about precognition, if they would do it alone, without help of highe beings or characters like Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange. In my tactic, they aren't preparingg separately, they are all use their abilities to help each other, pretty much like Doom helped Osborn, Reed helped T'Challa, Apocalypse helped Cable, etc.

8.Did he used tacitcs mentioned by You? Can You post scans of it? Doom was moving in time to get rid of Marquis of Death. Richards came to Bib Bang moment with Allien Entity. Strange absorbed power of many demons/gods to fight with Shuma Gorath. Iron Man created weapon that shattered Phoenix Force. And as You know, this is just about few of them. Sinister created an army of telepaths and energy manipulators to deal with Phoenix Five. And he actually won. You've said that Majestic dealt in the past with telepaths. But can he deal with an army of omega level telepaths that will be boosted by Cerebra/o? With all resources other people from ME can provide, his army will be much greater, I would say: as great as it would take.

And finally - I hope You know, that it was just an example, because I could sit here for a day and bring one tactic after another, with another prep feat made by Reed, Doom, Sinister, Strange and all these people.

It does, if they are currently living on Earth. By "currently" I mean a status before beginning of current stories, to not mess people's mind.

@czarny_samael666:

I don't even understand what your first point is trying to say but I'll reiterate, until there is some clear indication that everyone you wish to be in this fight is in this fight, I'm not considering it. And even then, with everyone being in character, I'm just going to fall back on the fact that the Earth has been threatened before without all these people coming out of the woodwork. The events going on this very wednesday support that point and you pretending otherwise and arguing about it changes nothing. You can bring up Chaos King if you want, but that's not what this situation is. Gods got involved in that because it was about a god killing other gods. That's not what's going on here.

I don't care where Darwin teleports to. He's completely inconsequential. You act like him just being on the planet is a problem for Majestic. It really isn't. Your preoccupation with individuals isn't helping you here. Just like you're stuck on Darwin, who isn't going to do a thing even if he IS in the right place, you're stuck on Magik, who could be blitzed and destroyed before she knows what hit her.

All the prep you're talking about was when characters knew specifically what they were fighting. Won't be the case here. Also, I've answered the telepath question already.

Reed solos. : D

Damn. You went in. Full out too. And I think @buckshot just doesn't want to admit he's wrong and loses. I'd just let it go.

@buckshot:

You seem to have an issue with involving characters that do not normally show up even for large conflicts in this scenario, while I do not agree I can see your point and I will give you a scenario which would allow a moderately easy win for Marvel Earth, without the use of said characters. No before I begin I would like to point out that you have said several times something along the lines of "They didn't prep that way before, or for X situation" The point being that Marvel Earth rarely prepares for a conflict the same way twice and as such any scenario that is possible for them to achieve, should be considered.

You before rejected the idea of the use of the Ultimate Nullifier by Reed because you claimed one of the Majestic's could take it from him before he pulled the trigger, I have to agree with you.

But under this scenario, Reed will have time to analyze the situation, decide to use the Ultimate Nullifier, and use it far before any Majestic is able to reach him.

The first issue will be that while all the Majestic's are very fast, they will notknow where Reed is when they first reach Earth, this will be further helped by magic users such as Strange, Doom, Magik, etc. using spells to help conceal Reeds whereabouts, this should be easy to do in a day or so much less two weeks.

Now, lets address defense of Reed and the Ultimate Nullifier. Marvel Earth can set up defenses around him including, Doom's tech, Starks tech, Black Panther's tech, Reed's own tech, Ultron's tech, Shield's tech, Pym's tech, and others I probably didn't even mention. They can also set up magical defenses including Stranges Magic, Doom's Magic, Magik's Magic, and plenty of others I am not mentioning. Then there is defense in terms of actual personnel consisting of people like Sentry, Thor, Hyperion, Photon, Starbrand, Blue Marvel, possibly Gladiator, Surfer and dozens of other heavy hitters. Then magic users like Strange, Doom and many others. Also there is a very large amount of telepaths and people with powers that the Majestic's will have a hard time countering like, Legion, GR, etc.

So imagining that the Majestic's are able to locate Reed both physical location and through various cloaking techniques. How long do you think it takes them to find Reed and get through all defenses? Lets be extremely generous and say it takes them 1 minute. That is more than enough time for Reed to analyze the situation, decide to use the Ultimate Nullifier, use it, and end the battle.

Now I know what you will say, "They have never prepped like that before!" Doesn't matter, seeing as they don't prep the same way twice you have no idea how they will prep and this scenario is well within Marvel Earths ability to create, therefore it is an option that can be considered.

@man_of_miracles:

Thanks for participating and bringing a new approach and attitude to this conversation.

Have I really said something like "they haven't prepped that way before"? The only things I've really been rejecting based on a lack of history was the involvement of characters. I may have mentioned something like that for time travel tactics, but in addition to citing how rarely that sort of thing is done, I also gave several reasons why even if it were attempted, it wouldn't be as useful as claimed. I didn't dismiss it entirely (even though the Marvel characters are supposed to remain in character). Maybe reading the whole thread fresh you've seen somewhere else where I've responded in such a way, but I can't think of what that would be.

To your scenario, it's a good one, but it relies on the Majestic army coming to Earth and facing the assembled heroes together, when that's not the only way this could play out. Reed holding the Ultimater Nullifier won't defend Earth if a black hole opens up in the center of the planet. Him being hidden won't help the Earth survive the disappearance of its sun. If the Majestics test the waters with an attack like those the UN won't matter. If they start off with some other sort of assault (an army of the robots used when they take over planets, drones spreading genetic concussion grenades, a tide of Daemonite invaders, another planet hurtling toward Earth, a squad of 5 or so fully loaded Majestics, etc) that is severe enough itself to force Reed to use his weapon, then he will be revealed when the next wave (and that's just assuming there are only 2 waves) comes and the other Majestics will know exactly what they're dealing with (and THAT's assuming they didn't already, which I doubt given their prep). If the Majestic's come at Earth in any way other than a single unified force, that plan doesn't work.

Completly not. Thanos isn't galactic level threat. Builders currently get trashed by Shi'Ar fleet and Starbrand.

Galaxy level threat that attcaked Earth currently?

Celestial enemies, Serpent and Chaos King.

Against all we have seen top level beings attacking them. Odin even made a planet to make his prep more effective. Zeus wanted to be part of it, but Odin beat him and didn't allow him for that. All gods were fighting against Chaos King, one even became multiversal level threat, with Gaia's aid. Even this beasts-gods from Canada's myths were involved in this.

Marvel Earth - no matter what You think - is ALL people and beings living on Earth. No matter how much You want to exclude them, there is no way that Majestic can claim victory over whole Earth, if he won't attack Olimpia, Lemuria, Olymp, Asgard and all other places. Thanos didn't have to attack whole planet - Majestic has to do it. If he has to do it, then all these people cooperates and makes weapons similar to their fight with Chaos King or Serpent. In fight against Serpent even Surtur was involved, while evil sorcerors where rather pleased by fear's rule. When Serpent attacked Earth, all demons and Hell-Lords were debating about situation. In tihs fight - they HAVE to make an action and they will be summoned by their priests on Earth.

@czarny_samael666:

And then there's you again.

Thanos has threatened the Marvel Universe. He's a big enough threat. The Builders have cowed civilizations all across known space and a Galactic council was convened to address them. Even The Universe itself got involved and everyone you're trying to list was nowhere to be seen. Are you going to say that the Phoenix isn't a sufficient threat either and that's why Zeus and Gaia didn't show up? When the Celestials came during Hickman's Fantastic Four I didn't see Zeus or Gaia. And good job listing the Serpent and Chaos King. The Serpent incident didn't even involve most of who you're talking about and both of those events specifically included pantheons so its not like the gods came to Earth's aid, they were just dealing with their own problems. Quit acting like these characters get involved every time the Earth is at stake when I can pick up a comic this week and see that's not true.

@buckshot:

Can't You simply admitt that Majestic lose? At least once? I've told You - it doesn't matter who gets involved.

It is not thread:

Majestic vs "people who usually defend Earth" or

Majestic vs "people who usually are attacked on Earth"

It is Majestic vs Marvel Earth.

It doesn't matter who likes it or not - characters that are present on Earth are a part of Marvel Earth.

Why are You trying to make it so complicated, while it is as simple as it can get?

I've mentioned fights with Chaos King or Seprent to show You that these people also take sides at certain conflicts, not to really debate if they are a part of Marvel Earth or not, becuase it is not subject to discuss.

As soon as you give me a reason to.

@buckshot:

I have gived enough already. Yet, it seems that people who lives on Earth, aren't a part of it. As much as Majestic can claim to be king of whole Earth even if Asgardia, Olympia and Olimp will not be beaten.

um...Ultimate Nullifier can create and destroy multiverses. Obviously, it can nullify things. It would actually help against a blackhole (erasing it from existence and rebuilding new york) and against the sun being taken (recreate it). Ultimate Nullifer can also just erase the Mr. Majestics even if they don't attack. Remember, he'll know who Majestic is and what he'll do due to time travel and precog. Also, he was being really generous as 100 Majestics would fall to Thor, Blue Marvel, Photon, GR, etc. with Doom, La Fey, Strange, Voodoo, Loki, etc. backing them up with magic amps.

And please, stop citing the actual stories as what should and would happen. The point of these debates is to debate what logically should happen without PIS and CIS. Why doesn't Zeus, Odin, Legion, Franklin Richards, Doom interfere at the best of their ability evertime a threat comes around? Because that'd sell exactly 0 comics and you know it. If you put plot in, them not prepping correctly or using resources or working together to save their goddamn planet, then plot goes the other way and Cap America and Spider-man each take out a few Majestics as do Deadpool, Wolverine, Iron Man, etc. just for a good storyline. Arguing for plot is in poor form. A counter to the UN, the magic prep, the time travel, the pre-cog, etc. would be nice though.

1. You have hinted that certain tactics will not be used to prep for this encounter because they have no been used in comparable situations for prep. However I apologize if the way I stated it seemed a little blunt.

2. Unless I am mistaken the OP says that the 100 Majestic's are attempting to conquer Earth? So therefore doing something like opening a black hole in the center of the planet or removing the sun doesn't fit into the scenario because that would destroy Marvel Earth not conquer it. I don't think those kinds of tactics make sense in a scenario of conquering the planet with 100 Majestic's

3. Actually I believe the OP stated he could have information of the targets themselves, I doubt that this would entail every invention and weapon of everyone present, it seems more like the OP meant a a specific overview of their personality, powers, etc. Also, refresh me on how the UN works? how would the Majetic's know that Reed used the UN to beat them?

4. While there are any number of scenario's possible from either side, I will attempt to address what you have said, assuming that the Majestic's do come in waves, I don't think that any less than say 15 are going to result in enough damage for Reed to use the UN, and by the way in that scenario, there is still no guarantee that the Majestic's ever figured out where Reed is, meaning the next wave will still have to look for him. Also doesn't the UN nullify situations? as in just turn everything back? so would the Majestic's even retain knowledge of the event? on that point I am not sure.

In conclusion the plan could still work if the Majestic's decide on a more subtle tactic, the only really important thing in the scenario I offered is that Reed and the UN stay safe, which I am confident with Marvel Earths various defense techniques they would be able to.

Also thank you

I want to clarify that every character/thing on Marvel Earth is completely in character. I'll edit the OP to ensure that there isn't any confusion in the future of this thread.

Thank you, although I think my scenario still works even under this condition.

@man_of_miracles:

I think I talked about the conquer/destroy thing already. The Majestics would prefer to conquer Earth but they will destroy it if they can't. If they determine they can't conquer it, they'd go for destroying it, and if a simple discussion between people nowhere near as smart as Majestic (like the one we're having) is enough to suggest that conquering will be such an enormous hassle as some of you believe it would be, then they'd skip to destroying it. If they decide it will be easy, then they'll conquer it, but I don't know what would make it easy, so I'm not having that discussion. This discussion we're having just assumes that on a very basic level, those of you opposing me are right and taking over Earth won't be a simple matter, and so we're moving right on to the destruction phase. (Although I did offhandedly suggest Majestic using Ark technology to safely kidnap everyone from Earth, destroying the heroes and then returning the humans. Alternatively he could use it to kidnap the heroes and send them away while he conquered the humans.)

The actual details of prep are unstated but when it is I generally think that the prep includes a link to a page like a comicvine or wikipedia write up, and any such write up for Mr. Fantastic would likely include the ultimate nullifier given its popularity. Even without such a link basic information would be more than enough for Majestic to look up and monitor these characters. His Kheran difference engines allow him access to other worlds and inconceivable processing power. He could find out anything he needs to know about these characters. He also has access to universes where every adventure these characters have is printed up in comic form. Majestic could go there and actually read everything they've ever done. I wasn't thinking about exactly how detailed his prep could be, but even basic information allows him to get more and more and makes his prep even more significant.

I don't really know how the UN works, just that if used it will work on whoever its used on. Well, ostensibly.

So with the instant destruction ideas uncontested, I'll move on to what you're responding to. Im not sure why I'm fighting this, but I am. I think even a single Majestic on Earth would create enormous amounts of damage. He's a character that can move faster than the majority of characters on Earth can even think. Teleported onto Earth, he could drop a city (at least) on his own before people realized it, and that's just unarmed. He wouldn't have to be going after any threats or any hidden enemies, he could just be creating havoc and massive damage. And I just thought, what if he takes hostages? The heroes of Earth are unlikely to sacrifice lives to win (and the villains fighting alongside them will meet opposition) and if he somehow convinces Earth that massive numbers of people would die if he did, he wouldn't just be a target for them to pick off once they gathered the courage. And now I'm back to the idea of Majestic tricking humanity. As I suggested before, he could unleash all sorts of threats on Earth and then come to them as a hero to fight alongside them, learning whatever he may not already know while earning their trust. 1 Majestic, either directly or indirectly, could be an enormous problem for Earth.

There are many tactics that could be used to destroy Reed without specifically looking for him (and before he could really do anything about it) or draw him out with other threats. The army of Majestic's could do amazing amounts of damage without diminishing their number significantly or at all.

I think a significant issue is that there is now way, given the intelligence of these characters and the prep time available we can possible come up with even a fraction of the conceivable plans that they could form, that being the case, it gets a bit difficult to argue over as literally thousands of scenarios are available to us, almost nothing is out of the realm of possibility in this particular encounter. As such I am not going to attempt to keep trying to come up with new scenarios (nothing to do with you, I just think it would take forever haha).

That being said I will contest you on one last point.

Drawing him out with other threats could potentially work, though it is not assured, however I absolutely disagree that Majestic would be able to destroy Reed without looking for him. There is no way whatsoever that he could destroy Reed without finding him given the defenses I detailed. Strange's protection alone would protect Reed from nearly anything including black holes, exploding suns, etc. That is just Strange, not including the others I named, and others I didn't. And since the defenses would be in place before Majestic started his attack his only hope to break the defense would be to find Reed and attempt to overtake the defenses by force, which by the way I am not sure can be done. I know that the Majestic's have the Creation Blades, however that doesn't help them get through a shield that atomizes them, simply BFRs them( to a demon dimension, or Limbo or any number of places), makes them forget who they are or what they are doing, steals there soul, doesn't allow organic matter to cross, causes them debilitating pain etc.

In short the defenses are mystic as well as technological, Majestic has little experience in this area(mystical) and little or no aptitude for it himself, making the mystic defenses a huge problem as they operate on a different plane entirely than what Majestic is used to.

@man_of_miracles:

If the defenses these characters can come up with were so total, then something like the current incursions wouldn't be a problem for them. They currently have no simple defense for an Earth coming into contact with them from another dimension. Their response is to destroy that other planet, not sit safely behind some impenetrable, obfuscating shield. If they could so simply block something of that scale from interfering with Earth, they'd be using it. But they don't. With that being the case, it makes me think that something like a black hole that's generated from another dimension (which Majestic has already shown he can produce) would be something they similarly couldn't defend against. Likewise, if these characters could all team up and make such impenetrable shields, then they'd have no fear of Thanos coming to Earth to terrorize them, or the Builders and their army headed for the planet. But it's simply not the case that they can erect such defenses. Was Strange's defense against Hulk some sort of shield or something to hide whoever he was looking for? No. He took more drastic and selfdestructive measures to combat Hulk because he could not attempt to easily defend the world from him without direct combat. Hiding Reed won't save him from large scale destruction and shielding him won't work either since these characters have shown that they can't easily defend against actual attacks of the magnitude Majestic can unleash (and just random thought, how would even perfectly protecting Earth help them if their sun disappeared?). So I maintain my position that in addition to drawing out Reed with countless other extinction level events, Majestic could also just destroy large parts of the planet (or all of it) and catch Reed in that without specifically aiming for him.

As for this idea that Majestic can't deal with magic, I disagree. The wildstorm universe is a very low-magic reality, so aside from very few characters (the most notable being The Doctor) whose entire thing is magic, there aren't a lot of displays of magic for anyone. And sometimes the magic that is mentioned isn't termed "magic" full stop, but seems to be connected/related to psionic power and is sometimes just mentioned as "power" that exists in the universe. Despite the relatively limited displays of magic in the Wildstorm Universe though, Majestic has a pretty good record with it. He was once sent to a very high-magic version of his world and not only showed incredible magic resistance throughout, but was able to lead a war (in which he sustained no casualties and because of his speed was fighting on every front at once) in which he took down the magical ruler of the world. He had a lot of experience with magic during that time. I'm curious where you get the idea that he has little or no aptitude for magic (and where you got the idea that he has little experience with it for that matter). His race (as with the universe as a whole) is very tech based, but even in his first appearance he displayed his own considerable resources for magic. When Zealot's magical history was coming back to haunt her and she was becoming a god at the cost of her soul she needed help to stop the process. Majestic didn't have the skill to help, but he provided the strength needed to sustain the process. The implication of the scene was that it was quite a bit of strength, because ripping apart the soul of a god was no easy matter. From what little can be said of Majestic and magic, he seems to have vast resources for it. I should also mention his forge he built where he makes all his weapons. When using it, he, like Dr. Doom, combines science and magic. And when he split the sun in two and became one with the universe, he did it with a mix of ancient rituals and secret equations. That's all in the more distant past. Closer to the present he was given power that allowed him to understand magic even better than one of the top 5 users of magic in the wildstorm universe. (He no longer has the power to manipulate reality that it came with, but there's nothing to suggest he forgot what he learned while he had it, especially since that other time he became a reality warper he stated that his mind was forever changed by the experience, so its clearly not something that just goes away.) So, magic is not something foreign to Majestic. He certainly has the resources for it and he actually uses it more than most people in his universe even if he's not what you'd think of as a spell slinger. But that's just where he starts. With knowledge of his enemies, he'd recognize that Marvel Earth is, in contrast to Wildstorm Earth, a high-magic place and would prepare himself accordingly. Some of his copies could spend all their time (at super speed no less) doing nothing but studying magic and then pass this knowledge on to the other Majestics (so some sort of mental connection they create, not just talking to them) so they're all pros at it by the time the fight goes down. One of Majestic's closest allies is Zealot, the one who nearly became a god through her magical studies, and their daughter is Savant, a girl who collects all sorts of magical artifacts, so its not like he can't find resources to learn. I've often thought of what Majestic could do if he applied himself to magic the way he's applied himself to science, and it possibilities are endless.

As for things being on a plane beyond what someone is used to, this thing I mentioned before, Otherspace? It's a plane so inconceivable that "reality is variable and basic existence can never be proven" and just the idea of going there was so impossible that it was never even considered. Majestic built a doorway and went spelunking there. Majestic can get very comfortable with "planes entirely different" than what you'd think he might be used to.

@buckshot: You're focusing too much on plot, PIS, and WIS. These characters CAN do these thing but don't because that'd be boring to just have Strange, Doom, Reed, and T'challa solo everyone with their combo of tech and magic. It's the reason that one day Thor's immune to TP from Emma Frost empowered by Phoenix, next day Red Skull in Prof. X's mind can mindrape him, next day he stomps Phoenix, next day a newb with Phoenix stomps him. It all depends on the story being told. Here, we disregard plot and use feats and showings.