Is Damien Wayne a Mary-Sue?

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SuperAdam

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Poll Is Damien Wayne a Mary-Sue? (55 votes)

Yes 40%
No 53%
idk 7%

He was a total Mary-Sue in the Son of Batman movie. And he's not going to be any better in the sequel movie. A ten year old being able to hold his ground against Batman? Now he has superpowers and is going to join the Justice League despite being like ten. I haven't really read any Batman comics, so perhaps I just saw the character at his worst, however he sounds a lot like Wesley and Scrappy Doo.

Is Damien Wayne a Mary-Sue?

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#51  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@entropy_aegis:

To be fair, when you said that the Ravager (Rose Wilson) has beaten Shiva, if you're talking about Deathstroke #6 - Honor Thy Father Shiva disarmed Rose easly and was just about to kill her with a sword, when Harley Quinn shot Shiva from behind with a gun, that's when Rose gained the upper-hand, if it wasn't for Harley, Rose would be dead.

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lxlGiftedlxl

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#52  Edited By lxlGiftedlxl

@bat_girl_cc said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@entropy_aegis: Yes cause Damian totally has skill feats on the level as one shotting Shiva.......not

Right, except, that neither has.

1) The only character that could possibly one-shot Lady Shiva, due to skill alone, is Karate Kid, someone who keeps up with kryptonian level characters on a daily-basis, due to his skill.

2) The instance that you're refferring to, was Lady Shiva's lowest showing ever, on all continuities, and it was Jason's highest, and its the reason why no-one takes Jason seriously anymore on the battle threads, people just make jokes about him now, like "jason oneshots, obviously" and stuff like that.

It also toke place on Jason's own title, on which he has been written far above the level on which he's written on the other titles.

3) When people bring up that instance, they conviniently forget to say, that on that same series, a few issues earlier, Lady Shiva had overwhelmed Jason easly and she even told him that she was disappointed with him...and he only escaped due to blowing his helmet on her face, which certainly isn't a skill feat.

And when Jason beat Shiva, he admitted, that she teached him a few special shortcuts, just in case Jason ever faced a opponent of Lady Shiva's caliber (Jason's own words) clearly indicating that Jason isn't as good as Shiva, otherwise he wouldn't need to use them.

4) Also, when it comes to skill alone, even in the New 52, that instance was easly both Jason's best showing, and Shiva's worst...Jason's best skill feat besides that one, its stallemating a holding-back Batman...while Lady Shiva has beaten Batman and Robin together, defeated Nightwing, etc...the inconsistency, its pretty notorious.

5) And for the record, Pre-New-52 Lady Shiva >>>>>New 52 Lady Shiva, at all levels.

This, except Bats was starting out IIRC when she did it, and Robin was like 10. But Shiva still has feats that would put her above Jason..

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#53  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@bat_girl_cc said:

@allstarsuperman said:

@entropy_aegis: Yes cause Damian totally has skill feats on the level as one shotting Shiva.......not

Right, except, that neither has.

1) The only character that could possibly one-shot Lady Shiva, due to skill alone, is Karate Kid, someone who keeps up with kryptonian level characters on a daily-basis, due to his skill.

2) The instance that you're refferring to, was Lady Shiva's lowest showing ever, on all continuities, and it was Jason's highest, and its the reason why no-one takes Jason seriously anymore on the battle threads, people just make jokes about him now, like "jason oneshots, obviously" and stuff like that.

It also toke place on Jason's own title, on which he has been written far above the level on which he's written on the other titles.

3) When people bring up that instance, they conviniently forget to say, that on that same series, a few issues earlier, Lady Shiva had overwhelmed Jason easly and she even told him that she was disappointed with him...and he only escaped due to blowing his helmet on her face, which certainly isn't a skill feat.

And when Jason beat Shiva, he admitted, that she teached him a few special shortcuts, just in case Jason ever faced a opponent of Lady Shiva's caliber (Jason's own words) clearly indicating that Jason isn't as good as Shiva, otherwise he wouldn't need to use them.

4) Also, when it comes to skill alone, even in the New 52, that instance was easly both Jason's best showing, and Shiva's worst...Jason's best skill feat besides that one, its stallemating a holding-back Batman...while Lady Shiva has beaten Batman and Robin together, defeated Nightwing, etc...the inconsistency, its pretty notorious.

5) And for the record, Pre-New-52 Lady Shiva >>>>>New 52 Lady Shiva, at all levels.

This, except Bats was starting out IIRC when she did it, and Robin was like 10. But Shiva still has feats that would put her above Jason..

Yes, when Lady Shiva beat both Batman and Robin together on Nightwing #0 - Perpetual Motion Batman wasn't as experienced as he is now, and Dick Grayson was on his first time using the robin costume, though she did beat them and allowed them to live...but on Nightwing #14 - Die for Me Lady Shiva beat Nightwing 1-on-1, and once again she let him live (at one point i even thought that she had a thing for him, lol xD) although Dick had a broken rib, which she noted, and she praised his skills, although stating that they are nothing compared to her's...and i don't think that Jason is more skilled than Dick.

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AllStarSuperman

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@bat_girl_cc: I like how you conveniently forgot to mention Jason had no memories in the first "fight".

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okayalright_44

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So you dont read the comics or know the character by your own experience.

What the Flying Unicorn Cow Kisser was this?

this

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@bat_girl_cc: I like how you conveniently forgot to mention Jason had no memories in the first "fight".

I was talking about Red Hood and the Outlaws #21 - Dissolution

This fight:

No Caption Provided

Jason was "memory-less" so to speak, and? he wasn't being mind-controlled or anything like that, and he didn't forgot how to walk or how to talk, did he? also, he doesn't need to remember the exact details of his training, if he mastered it, then he should be able to perform the moves that he learned, instinctively.

Saying that, that hindered his skill seems like a bit of a strecth to me, also considering that he was using his skill on his fights, he lost some, but saying that it was because he was "memory-less" sounds like a excuse.

You're saying that, because he lost, if he had won, you wouldn't say that losing his memory hindered his skill.

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AllStarSuperman

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#57  Edited By AllStarSuperman

@bat_girl_cc: I'm done talking you. Every single time Cain gets beat, theres context or bad writing. But if Jason's loss had context, then its an excuse.

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@bat_girl_cc: I'm done talking you. Every single time Cain gets beat, theres context or bad writing. But if Jason's loss had context, then its an excuse.

?

In the Pre-New-52 continuity, Lady Shiva beat Cass the first time, because she didn't had her Body-Reading, which its a fundamental part of her whole character, Batman easly beat Cass on a sparring/training-session that they had when she didn't had her Body-Reading, and he told her that it would take at least 10 years for her to be as good as he is (raw-skill-wise) even at that point, she was very good, but not top-tier good.

The second time, Cass had a death wish.

Do you really want to compare those, to memory-loss?...comparing it, would be like saying that losing one arm, or wantting to die, gives me the same chances of winning a fight, as if i had amnesia...

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lxlGiftedlxl

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#59  Edited By lxlGiftedlxl

@bat_girl_cc: Thanks for the clarification and thanks for showing the scans too.

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Bat_Girl_CC

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Waltz

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You obviously don't know what a Mary Sue is.

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Aahz

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Here's the difference between Damian and Jason.

There's this:

No Caption Provided

Compared to this:

No Caption Provided

Basically, one Robin played at being a badass, while the other really is one.

The thing is, Damian did this when the Joker was handcuffed and in police custody, and in spite of this the Joker nearly killed him in this confrontation.

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ComicStooge

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@aahz: Because Joker had poison fingernails.

Anyway, it's called jimmy rustling. Damian was a more badass Robin in any case.

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AmazingSpiderman15

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Aahz

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@comicstooge: But this was still a dumb action of Damian, who underestimated the Joker.

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ComicStooge

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@aahz said:

@comicstooge: But this was still a dumb action of Damian, who underestimated the Joker.

Jason took plenty of dumb actions as Robin.