The upcoming episode is titled: "Goku vs no17" and in the preview Goku SSB was shown struggling against 17.

Looks like more characters are getting God level out of nowhere.

Honestly everyone would be god level if we take this stuff at face value. Super just has no scaling what so ever.

Exactly. For all we know 17 could have a trick up his sleeve or could be using a strategy to weaken goku or something.

I think they tryna make the GT version of 17.

Android 17 was always said to have an incredible power source but due to malfunctions and his human elements, 17 could never access the power he was supposed to have, which is why Android 18 was so close to him in power. If that problem with his power source has somehow been fixed, it would explain why he's suddenly become so strong - as he always should have been.

head canon, since God ki is deity based and it is only stronger against beings that were created by gods, Android 17 being an android is actually stronger against it as he was created by man and not gods.

Lol nonsense.

Let's not throw judgments without knowing the episode

There could be some context around that explains that...

And even if not, 17 is awesome, so i don't care if he becomes Zeno level all of the sudden

what if.....hold on....we wait for the episode

Power scaling no longer has a reliable role in Super

Super Android 17 confirmed.

I swear people always jump the gun. Last week someone said Krillin was SSJ blue level.

nobody really cares

they're just happy to have a dragon ball series

Or... you could stop thinking that is a fact and start considering it might be a situation like Krillin's fight

Why would goku go all out against 17? Hes prob testing him or something

that or super makes no sense

SSJ god has perfect Ki control unless you people are forgetting. Goku in God form can push 17 as much as he wants and it's not a scaling issue deal with it.

17 could have possibly been training for ten plus years. Frieza reached god tier in four months, who was weaker than 17. It's really not that much of a stretch. No doubt Goku will be holding back some, I expect 17 will be holding back as well. There is no real reason for them to go all out.

Well there better say that then eventually. Because if is not stated, then the viewer just have to take what they see for their face value.

It be like having Batman punch Superman and him getting k.o and not explaining how and no sign of kryptonite or anything. Of course, people going to call it bad writing because only way it makes sense is if we add the narrative, basically doing their god damn job.

Also, Krillin scene was also stupid.

Ayyy. I don't see your username in my Krillin thread. Why not refute it there instead?

What is it about the concept of restraint that is so elusive to Dragon Ball fans? Do you guys punch your siblings or friends at full strength as well?

In the words of TFS Vegeta

There's more than one I'm guessing. And I don't need to refute something so blatantly obvious.

@tvc-15: the issue is simply that restraint hasn't ever been a factor. Power level was king. No matter how much more skilled you were, unless that skill resulted in a power level amp you were toast. Now they are trying to say power level doesn't matter, when the entire series up to this point has told us otherwise. Krillin and 17 would never be able to reach the level where they can even spar with Goku under the systems established in Z. Now the idea that anybody who trains hard enough can hold their own against a guy who can harness the power of a God is pushing the boundaries of suspension of disbelief. It doesn't make sense in a show that already doesn't make sense and is breaking it's own established rules for not making sense. Which is why so many people are asking very reasonable questions like if krillin could become this powerful in a few months why was he so weak when he had 3 years to train to fight the androids? He has been training his whole life and got to maybe a million power level if I'm being generous and now past his peak he is adding billions onto that in a few months? Let's call a spade a spade man. It's crap writing and we all know it.

Its clear that goku is holding back , but as another user has stated , frieza trained for 4months and was god level , so android 17 training for years when hes already stronger then post golden frieza isn't that far fetched , this is if he can even increase his power like saiyans

Pretty much this. We all know Goku is holding back. Though I don't believe he is holding back as much as some people seem to think. Why is that?

We can clearly see the impact of the collision caused by their fists. It takes two of substantial power to create an effect like that. If there is anything to make of their expressions one could argue 17 might not be going all out either. The dude looks calm af.

Could 17 be god tier now? It's plausible. He could have been training for ten plus years. 17 has unlimited stamina unlike most DB characters, that fact alone would have allowed for more training opportunities than most. Honestly it comes down to one thing, 17's 'potential'. No android's potential has been explored until now.

Outside of Frieza(who was weaker than 17 when he was revived) who reached god tier in four months, you had Trunks who was SSJ2 level who by unknown means was able to compete with the likes of Black. Even managing to get some solid hits in on merged Zamasu. Lastly you had Vegeta at SSJ2 who jumped SSJ3 tier, got stronger than Buuhan, surpassed even SSJ Vegito in a matter of months to reach SSJB tier. Of course this was while training under Whis, one of the few major power boosts that had believable context behind it.

So if the characters I listed could reach god tier levels in under a year what's the problem with 17 reaching it after ten plus years if he has been training? If 17 even has 1/4 of Frieza's potential reaching god tier in a ten year time frame is very believable. On a plus side we'd have someone else from U7 outside of Goku and Vegeta who could really throw down against god level threats if the time comes. And with this tournament of power waiting on the horizon, that time might be now.

Also I came across this video on the tube going over Android 17's potential if anyone would like to check it out,

If SSB is as strong as 17 then SSJ4 is more powerful than SSB because Super 17 > 17 :p

Who isn't God level these days?

@LeonardoTMNT: It didn't look like he was holding back but I think we should wait for the episode to come out

But DB has a broken scaling system lol

Goku is holding back. The fact he isn't SSJB Kx10 confirms that. Though, I don't think Goku is massively holding back like some people seem to think. I agree, we shall see what happens when the episode airs.

@LeonardoTMNT: The reason he doesn't use Kaio-Ken ×10 in conjunction with SSJB is because he runs the risk of permanently damaging his body. From time to time, he'll still use a standard Kaio-Ken, or a technique called Kaio-Ken Fist.

Exactly, and since he is only testing(at least that's the assumption) 17, Kaio-Ken is completely unnecessary.

@LeonardoTMNT:

Agreed, but in all honesty, SSJB alone seems unnecessary for a fighter of #17's caliber, unless he got a ridiculous boost during the time skip, which seems unlikely.

Yamcha.

@artthief: Well, he did take multiple blows from God level opponents during that baseball game, so you never know. ;)

Yes, if we are to assume that 17 hasn't gotten too much stronger then base Goku would have been more than enough. The fact Goku is using SSJB and 17 appears to be going blow for blow with him in that form seems to imply 17 has gotten significantly stronger.

There are three reasons I can think of that could have lead to 17 starting to train.

1. After losing to Cell all those years ago I imagine his ego took a massive hit. He had believed himself to be the best. Not only did he face someone stronger than himself, he was completely embarrassed in the process.

2. We have learned that he has a loving for not only animals, but perhaps the planet itself. Wanting to protect those two things could also have led to him wanting to improve himself.

3. If 17 does indeed have a family he is caring for, that would be another reason for him to train.

17 reaching god tier in a ten year time frame is really dependent on his potential. I guess we shall see.

@LeonardoTMNT: I mean, anything's possible, but considering how well Krillin and Boo did against base Goku--the same base Goku that was able to gain the upper hand on final form Freeza during the RoF arc, I wouldn't be surprised if he's either jobbing, or its just another one of Toei's inconsistencies. I just don't see any possible way #17 could have increased that much over the years. That kind of increase is unfathomable, even for born warriors like Goku and Vegeta who spend all day training. They needed multiple days inside the RosaT, along with special training from Whis to get where they are today, and both were much stronger than #17 during the Cell Games.

The main point to consider, 17's 'potential'. Something that hasn't been explored until now.

Yes, Goku and Vegeta went through a freaking ton to reach god level. But we also have to remember Frieza who was weaker than even Android 17 reached god level in four months. Why is that? Because his potential is much higher than a saiyans. Like I said before, if 17 has been training for all of these years and even has 1/4 the potential of Frieza him reaching god tier is very possible. Ten years is much more believable than a four month time frame. Add in 17's unlimited stamina, that would have given him even more time to train than most.

@LeonardoTMNT: Freeza was a prodigy who never had to train in his entire life, and also had incredible dormant power. His potential is on a whole other level than even Gohan's. Until we get some insight into #17's daily routine or training regimen, I'm inclined to believe he has far less hidden potential than Gohan, or even Goku and Vegeta for that matter. Seeing him trade blows with SSJB Goku isn't enough to convince me, considering how illogical Super is with the scaling. We'll have to wait and see what happens next episode.

Akira Toriyama himself recently said Android 17 has 'great potential'. It was said in an interview from the scan below. So if we are to take his word for it I'd imagine 17 ranks pretty up there on potential. If you would like a link to the translation I can provide.

You also bring up another great point, how did 17 train? That is what I want to know for sure. Though I'm most interested in Goku and 17's interactions as a whole since we've never seen the two interact.

@LeonardoTMNT: That's true, his potential was said to be great by the author, so I wouldn't be surprised if he became a good deal stronger that he was back in the Android Saga. Although I do recall reading an interview stating that #17 became a park ranger, ended up marrying a zoologist and having a kid, so it's difficult to believe he could dedicate so much time to training. Then again, if his potential is truly outstanding, he might not need to.

Pretty much. We shall see if those interviews turn up true about the family bit. With 17 now back in the fray we'll know for sure soon enough.

Powerlevel consistency has left the building ppl, there's only relative power nowadays

I'm sorry but Super has done it once again. Using Ssb like a tool for plot. I'm going to address this later i need to debunk some things from this thread.

1. Ssb has perfect ki control.

How so exactly? Even if Goku is holding back Ssb should be too much for Krillin and 17. Ssj2 or 1 should have been enough for the both of them. We see Goku use Ssj3 on Trunks who was a Ssj2 and took him down with one punch. He even beats Black and Zamasu with Ssj2. Hell , why didn't he use Ssb when he was sparring with Gohan to test where he was?

2. 17 having potential.

Another plot device indeed. 17 is a cyborg (half human half robotic). Why would he have any more potential than Krillin or Yamcha who were said to be prodigies by Roshi? It was never stated that Dr Gero's technology could enhance a fighters DNA structure to turn an individual into a fighting prodigy. Even if he trained for 10 years. He isn't beating Goku. If Future Trunks couldn't i doubt 17 could.

3.Ssb is just used as the plot sees fit. The form itself isn't even that good. How many times did that form take an L? I can't even see a reason why Goku is using the form in the last few episodes it makes no sense as to why he should be using it.

@LeonardoTMNT: "He could have been training for ten plus years. 17 has unlimited stamina unlike most DB characters, that fact alone would have allowed for more training opportunities than most."

This right here is the excuse they should use. It's well thought out on how both 17 and 18 could train. Not to mention they have superhuman strength so training possibilities are endless. The question is HOW exactly was he training?

Honestly imo this is the major big problem with the DBZ series way too many speculations and not enough facts.

The biggest problem is that its still going on, and Akira doesn't know what to do or, more probably, doesn't care.

How 'bout you people actually wait for the episode to air before putting 17 into God Tier, huh?

No one has put him into god tier. We've only been discussing the probability of him being on that level/or how much Goku might be holding back. We will know for sure soon enough.

Sadly that's been the case