@tattacus: agreed the art was awful.

@jonny_anonymous: @ms-lola: @teerack: @theheaven_guardian10: @tattacus: @daredevil21134:

What is up Hornheads!!!!!

How have you all been? This really is an amazing page. Just wanted to give thanks to the creator DD21134 (I've been wanting to come back here for a while now. I've missed this place so much). He is the man in every sense of the word and we all came here during a...shall we say awkward time period for the character to put it lightly. This was the one place where we had solace to vent our frustration towards the terrible and I do mean terrible stuff that was happening to Daredevil. And man I also remember when we were all looking forward to the very first season of the Daredevil Netflix show. I'll never forget what an experience that was to report back here that not only was OUR show a success but it was one of the best opening seasons that a TV show has ever gotten. And then one of the other great announcements happened: "Mark Waid is officially off of Daredevil." Never have we had such joy hearing the news of a writers departure before lol

Moving forward today, how was the Defenders for you guys? That Punisher show is looking fanfuckingtastic. And which writer would you like take over the reigns on the Man Without Fear?

@tylerdurden7272: Not spoken to you before, unless I'm mistaken. But I do remember your username, so welcome back. It's a shame this thread is mostly dead these days, especially now that Soules run has got a lot better over the past few months.

Answering your questions though, Defenders was pretty ok. I suppose I enjoyed it more than Iron Fist and Luke Cage. I was disappointed Sigourney Weavers character was killed off. Matt and Jess were the highlights for me. Also yeah, Punisher looks great, cannot wait to see it.

As for a new writer, I'd like to have Soule on for a while yet and see where else he takes it. How bout you? Are you enjoying his run?

@tattacus: @tylerdurden7272:The last arc with the court drama bored me. But I like this arc since I'm a sucker whenever DD fights the Hand . I really don't like how characters like Danny, Luke, Elektra and Echo don't have their memories of Daredevil. The Defenders book has been great though.

@daredevil21134: Fair cop. I'm so glad Garney is back on art. The last artist was terrible. I've not been reading The Defenders but I hear good things. Might have to pick it up with Black Cat in it.

Dude, she's just not in it she's a big player! Read it man! Good story, great art and awesome street level characters.

Probably will at some point. Just don't like where she's at right now, being the "Queen Pin" and all, which is why I haven't jumped on already.

I think she may abandoned gimmick that giving what happened last issue.

Well that sounds like good news. Will have to play catch up then.

@tattacus: Ugh...I hate Blindspot....

@daredevil21134: I don't hate him, but I could do without him.

He feels forced to me. Where's the Joker when you need him.

Issue 595 is my favourite of Soule's run so far. I enjoyed it all the way through and now I can't wait for next months issues.

@daredevil21134

@tattacus: It was nice wish Fisk still knew who Matt was.

I don't mind either way really. I would say with how things are set up in this arc, maybe Fisk would find out soon. But then Matt's identity has only just been hidden from everyone.

His identity being erased from Elektra and Fisk ruin many classic DD stories though

I only jumped onto Daredevil with the Netflix show. Then I read The Man Without Fear, then jumped onto Soules run. I've read up on other stuff through Comicvine and that's where I am with Daredevil right now, so the current situation is ok with me. I can understand your point of view though and I think I'd be there with you if I had read more DD.

@tattacus: Well that explains a lot. Still, you seem very knowledgeable

I really did love this scene.

@theheaven_guardian10: Dope.

Actually enjoying Soule's run quite a bit. Started out kind of slow but Supreme was really good.

How's everyone doing?

@daredevil21134: Sup, buddy. I've been alright. Daredevil is still one of the few comics that I follow. How have you been?

I'm in the same boat, buddy. I think I'm reading Daredevil, Power Rangers, Fathom, Red Hood, Spawn and that's it. Nice to see you again.

What Omnibus would you recommand ?

• Daredevil Epic Collection Vol.1-3 (Stan Lee) - Daredevil vol.1 #1-63
• Daredevil by Frank Miller & Klaus Janson Vol.1-3 - Daredevil vol.1 #158-161, 163-191
• Daredevil Epic Vol.14-15 (Ann Nocenti & John Rominata Jr.) - Daredevil vol.1 #253-282
• Daredevil Epic Vol.18-19 (Chichester, Wright, ...) - Daredevil vol.1 #319-344
• Daredevil Epic Vol.21 (Kelly, Lobdel, ...) - Daredevil vol.1 #365-380
• Daredevil by Brian Michael Bendis & Alex Maleev Ultimate Collection Book 1-3 - Daredevil vol.2 #16-19, 26-50, 56-81
• Daredevil by Ed Brubaker & Michael Lark Ultimate Collection Book 1-3 - Daredevil vol.2 #82-119, 500
• Daredevil: Shadowland Omnibus - Daredevil vol.2 #501-512, ..., Daredevil: Reborn #1-4
• Daredevil by Mark Waid, Vol. 1-3 - Daredevil vol.3 #1-36
• Daredevil by Mark Waid & Chris Samnee Vol.4-5 - Daredevil vol.4 #1-18
• Daredevil by Charles Soules (not yet as an omni) - Daredevil vol.5 #1-28, 595-ongoing

@jb681131: All except Mark Waid's crap

Thanks. It's been Daredevil: The Man Withou Fear + Daredevil: Born Again + Daredevil: Yellow + Daredevil by Miller and Janson vol.1-3 for me so far.

I wish they would do a few omni for Ann Nocenti, Denis O'Neil, David Mach and Charles Soules.

Nocenti is extremely underrated

So Soule's run ends and I have to say, the twist to that last arc really took away from it.

He could've killed Matt or played out those events as actually happening and it would've been a way better story than basically just having an entire story arc go on in Matt's mind representing his battle against death. I think the concept of that on paper is good but the execution of it just made it messy. For that story to work as a dream where the essential basis of it is Matt fighting death some of these characters should change like Mike Murdock (should probably be Foggy or someone more meaningful) and Matt being the Vigil was really undercooked. That could've turned out to be someone else too. The twist was unrealized potential overall. I will say though, Phil Noto's art is always a blast, and the very last page of dialogue was great even though the twist of the story wasn't.

I think the oddest thing about Soule's run is just the lack of focus and consistency. Certain characters came up seeming like they'd be a big deal only to just not be. Tenfingers literally just popping up randomly in one of the recent issues as one of many baddies for Matt to beat on was weird, Soule's use of villains in general was very odd with how disposable he'd make not only his own creations such as Tenfingers or Muse, but even more threatening characters such as Typhoid Mary or high-profile bads like Bullseye. Perhaps the strangest afterthought of Soule's run is Blindspot, who seemed like he could potentially be groomed to either replace Matt or would be an attempted fixture as Daredevil's "Robin" only to really go nowhere. This character shared the cover with DD on the first issue of this run and ended up becoming forgotten by the very writer who created him.

Either way, another Daredevil run down, and it had ups and downs lacking the greatness or consistency of Waid's prior run, but still very enjoyable in places. Onto Zdarsky! Pretty interested to see what this take will be like as DD is the writer's favorite hero, and Marco Checchetto's a great artist that's done some nice work rendering Daredevil in the past. I really enjoyed his style in The Omega Effect story arc in particular with Spidey/Punisher/DD crossing over together.

I'd say all of those except for the Stan Lee stuff and Shadowland/Reborn. You could probably skip Epic Vol. 21 too.

Isn't Mark Waid's run disliked and hasn't it been retconned ? Yet you still recommand it ?

@jb681131 said:

It's disliked by some people here, but it would be a mistake to let a small group of people on one site warp your perspective on how something was received. Waid's run is hugely acclaimed for a reason. It's extremely well-written with some of the best art you can lay eyes on. I value the quality of a story and book more than anything. Waid's run is up there in the top of the crop among Daredevil runs with some elite work reinforcing why DD is such an awesome character with layers of depth to his personality and mindset. Waid captures Matt's charm perhaps better than any writer before him.

As for being retconned, the only aspect of it that was retconned was the status of Matt's secret identity, which was retconned using characters that were created by Waid himself. Changing a secret identity is pretty much a trope of superhero comics at this point though. The events of the book itself were not retconned, and are referenced in some form by the run that succeeded it by Charles Soule as well as having had impact on Matt himself.

But yes, I recommend it. If I'm recommending basically the Daredevil essentials to someone who wants to sink their teeth into one of the best and most consistently well-written comic characters of all-time, I'm recommending Miller, Bendis, Brubaker, and Waid's work before everything else. That's the stuff right there.

I don't think it was just a small amount of people who didn't enjoy Waid's run. It was the lowest selling run in DD history in decades. But to each his own. Soule's run was underwhelming so I'm looking forward to the chance.

Anyways,what are some things DD fans want to see in the new run? I personally want more focus on Matt's personal and more interaction with his supporting cast. I also wish to keep the dark tone.

@daredevil21134 said:

This has become a tired narrative to try and push and is very odd to see used as attempt at justification of an opinion. Since around 2010 physical, single-issue comic sales haven't told the full story on a series. Digital sales figures aren't tracked and only become a more growing medium for people to read comics in as time goes on. Trades and collected editions also don't seem to get as much attention either. Single-issue sales don't matter anywhere near where they once did, that's why you can see stuff like Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, Spider-Gwen, etc. have low physical sales but not get canceled. There are books and even characters that pull more sales in different forms. If you go talk to any comic readers in real life at cons and things like that, you'll have a much better idea of perspectives than focusing more on only similar opinions on the internet. It's also important to acknowledge that in this more modern age of comic reading there are readers who exclusively wait for collected editions/omnibuses, or read digitally through things like Comixology. No one that isn't a publisher can really speak accurately to the sales of a run on a modern book. Physical, single-issues sales have become a pick-and-choose tool for people to spin their own narrative in roughly the last decade.

It's okay to not like something, but I would hope in 2018 people have gotten over things and not try to speak a perspective as if it's fact and not try to misdirect curious readers with something like sales figures as a gatekeeping member of a fandom.

With any new run I want to see a good transition from the prior run that establishes where characters are going to be, and where they're going. So I really would like to see something done with Blindspot to either detach or reaffirm him as a Daredevil supporting character so he doesn't go the way of people like Echo, Typhoid Mary, Lady Bullseye, or Ikari in being a character (admittedly, Blindspot is less cool or interesting than every one of those named) who is introduced and significant in one run, and a complete afterthought for the future. As consistently well-written as Daredevil books are it always amazes me how unfocused and sort of scattered the characters are.

Being a huge fan and longtime reader, I just generally don't want to see Fisk or Bullseye anymore if it isn't something significant. I don't think Waid or Soule did much that justified using the character and it feels more like as writers they feel like "Well, I have the chance...I'm gonna do my Daredevil/Kingpin story!" and it's just a little on the stale side. I really wasn't a fan in general of Soule's treatment of villains overall. It's cool to realize that a superhero is more than just fighting bad guys, but he made so many villains go out with a fizzle. I'm all for creating new villains or building up old ones. Enhancing the mythos and supporting cast of any character is great. I'm kind of expecting at some point we see Netflix Bullseye traits integrated into comic Bullseye and won't be surprised if it happens in this run, just because it's so common for comics to do that. Obviously we'll have to see things with Fisk because of where Soule's run leaves off, I just hope Zdarsky does it well because it does have potential.

In terms of any specifics, I'm not really sure how I feel about Mike Murdock being around like he is. I'm sort of indifferent to the concept, so making that work would be good if he shows up in any capacity. It certainly feels odd to have this brotherly character come up that Matt feels close to when Foggy really tends to fill that role. The biggest thing I want is really just consistent art. Soule's run felt like it was filler when whoever the main artist at a given moment wasn't doing interiors, and when the book was on the visuals were striking. It can distract, break the immersion and tone, and even just quality of a run if the art has ups and downs.

I am not going to argue with you. You can have your own opinion. I'm glad Waid's gone. I addressed this for years and so have others and I have no desire to revisit the memories of his awful run. Agree to disagree. *shakes hand*

I've been a reader for decades and has followed his comics religiously. I really wanted to like Blindspot but Soule gave me no reason to. I don't even see why Matt would keep Sam around. I thought since Sam is a genius maybe he would make Matt new weapons and such but he didn't really do anything. I liked Muse but I didn't feel anything special with him beyond his look. I'm not warm to the idea of Mike Murdock being around. It's a fun little throw back every now and then but I don't like this idea so far. I'd really to see an evolution between Matt and Elektra. I'd like to see a writer do something long term with them.

@theheaven_guardian10: @immolation: @tylerdurden7272: Where y'all at?

Read vol. 6 #1 just now.

This is a great first issue and gives me such high expectations for what this run could be. Zdarsky writes Matt with a clear influence from all prior history but an unmistakable focus on the Frank Miller origins with a clear nod to The Man Without Fear mini and even beyond that, the look of Matt here with the shaggy hair and scruffy face along with flashbacks shown in the book seems to draw a parallel to the way he looked as a boy in Miller's Man Without Fear, just all grown up now. It felt like I was reading a directly following book to that in some ways.

The art and writing has a way of making this feel fresh and almost classic at the same time. By the time you get a Daredevil splash page in this book it feels absolutely badass, with art reflecting the grit that's so effortlessly established from the opening pages in a bar that looks like the kind of place you'd only find Matt Murdock in if he had things going on he still hasn't bounced back from. It's clear that Miller's early writing and the Netflix show have influenced this (in a good way) with the way Zdarsky is starting things off by taking the "super" off superhero in Daredevil, establishing that he's in a rough spot right now with even the most basic of crimes to deal with but keeping his likability in the fact that no matter how hard it gets, DD's never going to stay down, even if it means being on pain medication and face-planting in his bed at the end of the night. The final page of the issue paints such a contrasting picture to a previous splash, with the dialogue addressing a very commonly overlooked aspect of the whole vigilante/hero gig that could be interesting to see approached for once.

Honestly my only worry about this book would be the tone. I know Zdarsky (and I would say I'm overall unfamiliar with his writing) for being great at levity, charm, and humor, but being able to do it with heart. What kind of tone the book would take was sort of a question mark, but this has a tension to it with the right grit of Hell's Kitchen and still looks poised to say something with the emotional state of the character.

Bring on more.

Well said. I agree with all above.

The god without fear!!

What are the sword's capabilities?

@daredevil21134 said:

I thought "Dark Art" was outright excellent, the definite high-point of Soule's extremely uneven and often terrible run--I really liked it without too many qualifiers. Soule's effort to fix the mess Waid had made of the book was stupid but a big Reset Button story like that is almost always going to be that way, so that could be forgiven if Soule had at least put the book back on track with it. Unfortunately, he didn't. His Reset Button made everyone forget Matt was DD, even his close friends and associates, which had the effect of not only erasing most of Matt's established relationships with other characters--many of them having run for decades--but of putting huge, gaping holes in those characters' own backgrounds and rendering large sections of Marvel history well beyond DD himself inexplicable. Spider-Man no longer knows DD is Matt. Luke Cage, Danny Rand--they didn't know anymore (though that one has at least been subsequently fixed). Elektra is written as a character who was seeing Matt but cheating on him with DD! Soule actually wrote that. How does one explain years of the DD/Kingpin storyline if Fisk never learned Matt was DD? The events of "Born Again" alone can't be explained. The Black Widow lived with Matt for a few years while they were a crimebusting team--now, totally inexplicable. Ben Urich became friends with Matt after figuring out he was DD, and that relationship went on for decades--again, blown up.

Making people forget also can't erase the physical record. Matt was outed as DD. He sort of put that back in a bottle but then Waid had Matt confess to being Daredevil, not just generating a court record but an endless array of physical and digital media on the subject. He turned Matt into a celebrity whose identity was known to everyone and covered extensively. Matt was even writing a book (don't know if it was ever published though). All of the physical records from years of the comic still exist.

Soule also left knowledge of DD's blindness and of his powers in the public record! Not going to be hard to figure out who that guy is!

And so on. Instead of simply erasing Waid, Soule used it as a nuclear device to not only continue to blow up the book and the character but to do so in a way that blows up large swathes of Marvel history.

Soule's stories were very hit-or-miss. "Dark Art" was my favorite DD story since Brubaker left. Little else in Soule's run measures up to it. At the core of Soule's run was a cretinously idiotic idea about engineering a court case to establish the ability of masked heroes to testify in court! Constitution be damned, apparently. Matt was very enthusiastic about this VERY bad idea, which reflects quite poorly on the character, and he was able to attain a ruling allowing it, which is even worse. The trip to China was a little better and making the Kingpin the Mayor of New York was outright brilliant and could have led to years of great stories. Instead, Soule did basically nothing with it. The Hand invading New York is one of the worst DD stories since the dregs of the Silver Age. And then an "it was all just a dream" filler story.

Ugh.

Jed MacKay's mini works from a very interesting premise--what is the Man Without Fear learned fear? Unfortunately, there really wasn't any reason why he would have learned it; he was just hit by a truck, which is actually really stupid. Taken in isolation, I liked MacKay's mini. I just wish there was a firmer background for it.

I'm about 11 issues into Zdarsky's run and after what I felt was a rocky start, it has gotten quite good--a huge improvement over Soule in every possible way. Zdarsky built on what MacKay had done but has attempted to give it a firmer foundation, having Matt go back to being DD before he was ready with disastrous results. So Matt's trying to walk away from the vigilante game but--as expected--it keeps pulling him back in.

In episode 11 season 2 why does madam gao have one of daredevils batons on her table? Can’t figure it out

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Bump, I've heard there are new runs coming for Daredevil.