@sungsam: Language.

People bumped this to use VsBattles stats and "scaling"... WOW...

Anyway, Death smacks him to death...

A being who dies is already out of existence

Being that are out of existence also goes to him.It matters that those are avatars that can be weak.One shot the universe if he ever had such intentions from the start.

Whatever is erased out of existence goes to Oblivion, not whatever dies. You don't even know how Oblivion works. Lol

Lol? Oblivion is so weak that he can't help his Avatar with enough power to beat Quasar. It doesn't matter if it was Avatars or not, it has ZERO correlation neither an excuse. If Oblivion was that strong, he would have one shotted Infinity and Quasar, but he didn't because he can't do that. Get it?

Don't continue a discussion that you're already bound to lose. Don't accuse me of things that you're doing.

He literally said whatever dies goes to him then how it's from my head.They didn't show is their problem(they even don't need o show it). Yeah the avatars only fought against each other is my point.A non existent itself cannot have a concept.

Then show a feat of LT appearing dead in Oblivion's realm. No? Then shut up. Or it's just your head canon, show up with feats of this happening to LT instead of your speculation fanfiction. SHOW UP WITH FEATS AND SCANS, if you're so correct, you would have done it by now.

Only avatars of maelstorm? What are you on about? Maelstorm and Quasar were Avatars of Oblivion and Infinity respectively. You GOT IT ALL MESSED up and mixed up.

Oh bullshit, fuck off with that shit of me "not understanding what writers say".

Disagreements? Fine, but you accuse me of something I am doing the opposite of, this is becoming of an asshole.

Sorry whatever I said is the truth not my feelings it is already stated that whatever dies goes to so living tribunal which exists can die will sure go to him this is not from my head and it is written by the writers itself and that was a small black hole

And only the avatars of maelstrom fought against each other.Whatever I said is not head cannon as you can't understand what the writers say is your problem.He is the void where space and time exists thats why he is non existent(this word itself proves that he is beyond existence means beyond space and time) which makes him beyond anything beyond in existence = above the levels of space and time.

He literally said he created the marvel multiverse and your telling me it's from my head I don't understand what your on about.

He doesn't operate within the marvel universe as the living tribunal and was before the firament and living tribunal never judged which doesn't make any sense that oblivion is a abstract of living tribunal as living tribunal doesn't have Oblivion in him

So because Oblivion doesn't operate in the Marvel Universe and is older than everyone else and LT doesn't contain Oblivion.... that means Oblivion > Everyone else? That's absurd logic. So a 90 year old citizenless bum > A 30 year old US Marine in h2h combat because the bum operates outside of America and existed before the US Marine? Oblivion is just a relatively an outsider, nothing more.

Living tribunal has been destroyed 2 times and even the abstracts but the onblivion doesn't exist that's why he is beyond anything in the multiverse and therefore he cannot be affected by anything because he has no concept,no existence.

Living Tribunal was killed by Chaos and Order who were empowered by the First Firmament, the first time was the Beyonders. What does this got to do with Oblivion? Nothing. So your complaint doesn't fly.

Oblivion having better non corporeal void intangibility to the Multiverse =/= more powerful than LT and the other abstracts. There are many characters who can outlast Superman but are not more powerful than him. So this logic doesn't fly.

And the fact that Oblivion is pressured by Eternity, Infinity and Death by agreement proves that he is still very much affected by constructs of the Multiverse. Oblivion is just an outsider, nothing more.

And lol? Non existence is treated as a concept in Marvel. Oblivion's called a CONCEPTUAL being who acts as one of the corner stones of the compass to the Marvel Multiverse relative to the three other abstracts his level.

Why hasn't Oblivion destroyed the Omniverse yet? If he's SO beyond LT, Eternity, FF and the Beyonders? I'll tell you why, because he has no power over them. He is separate from them, but that's it.

The living tribunal will die and go to him

Except the Living Tribunal does not die and goes to Oblivion. That's just your fanfiction head canon.

That has never happened on panel, LT is likely a function within Multi-Eternity, he kind of just... poofs when he dies and doesn't go anywhere, he just dies, and can be revived or restored by TOAA or Multi-Eternity WITHOUT Oblivion in the equation so how does LT go to Oblivion again? Like LT has an afterlife to go to after he dies? No.

Now cite me a source where that will happen instead of hyperboles that's already contradicted by Oblivion's ON PANEL ANTI-FEATS, not statements and hyperbolic speculations.

then how can i believe on that writers shit which makes no sense.

Your only argument from what I understand just goes along the lines of "dasnt make any sense" or "muh opinion" or "fuck writers shit!" or "fuck feats!" or "feats make no sense" ZERO concrete evidence, mostly VSBattles logic which is fanfiction. Read this very carefully. VERY carefully, like really, if I hadn't been MORE clear enough as to my standards, and the standards of those reasonable.

I.

DON'T.

CARE.

ABOUT.

YOUR.

FEELINGS.

OR.

YOUR.

HEAD CANON.

I care only about evidence and concrete ones, not fanfiction and speculation and VSBattles gibberish. This forum is a free open forum that has zero tiering rules, it's not like VSBattles where they have made up terms shit that every motherfucker has to fucking follow or gets the ban hammer.

Your argument is that, it doesn't make sense therefore not true, well? That's bullshit of an argument. It doesn't matter what you think makes sense or not. It's crazier that you're willing to buy into the idea that Oblivion who is non existence, somehow has intelligence, sentience, self awareness and self identity and goals, constructs of concepts themselves, yet you call him really non-conceptual? How does that work? See?

You even don't see what the oblivion is and give me this statement and that fight between the infinity and oblivion that where low level avatar not even close to Oblivion.

LOLWAT? Where is it stated that the Oblivion who was empowering Maelstorm against Quasar and stalemated Infinity was an Avatar? It's none mentioned. The only one confirmed an M-Body was Infinity. The idea that everyone else there was an M-Body was Matthew Schroeder's fanfiction speculation.

The fact that Infinity can pop herself into Oblivion's domain and stalemate him and survive as an equal proves that Oblivion is absolutely overrated.

You even don't see what the oblivion is and give me this statement and that fight between the infinity and oblivion that where low level avatar not even close to Oblivion.

He doesn't operate within the marvel universe as the living tribunal and was before the firament and living tribunal never judged which doesn't make any sense that oblivion is a abstract of living tribunal as living tribunal doesn't have Oblivion in him

Living tribunal has been destroyed 2 times and even the abstracts but the onblivion doesn't exist that's why he is beyond anything in the multiverse and therefore he cannot be affected by anything because he has no concept,no existence.The living tribunal will die and go to him then how can i believe on that writers shit which makes no sense.

1) Oblivion broke the 4th wall

2) Oblivion does not exist while presence exists

3)oblivions true form is non existent (you will become non existent)

4) he is a illusion himself and everything else is too to him

5) toaa created the marvel multiverse through his illusion(toaa is the pen and Oblivion is the white space of paper and stanlee is the writer)

6)whatever dies goes to him and he has no concept and unbound to dimensions

7)fill him with stuff and he will still exist by non existing.

This is what Oblivion is ... and nothing compares to him except the beyonder and toaa.

It doesn't matter what you care about. I'm only here to stop those who read your posts from believing you. That's all that matters.

Oblivion has no feats to describe he is stronger than LT, we've seen the opposite.

He's treated as an equal to Eternity, Infinity and Death. If he was infinitely more powerful than them, why would he be subject to agreement and pacts? I already debunked your claims with scans, you have no such thing but speculation.

Your videos are just fan made, not made by any Marvel writer and contradict what's logical and canonical and more established. The First Firmament was the First Cosmos likely created by The One Above All, it had nothing to do with Oblivion. When Oblivion says everything in Marvel is his creation, that's just his self boasting, unproven hyperbolic claim contradicted by so many other narrative stories.

TLT calls himself TOAA, do you believe it? In-Betweener calls himself TOAA, do you believe it? Sentry is called Omnipotent, do you believe it? So why believe Oblivion's claim that is literally debunked by his on panel relationship to the other abstracts? Fact that they strike deals and agreements in his own realm no less.

There are no Outerversal beings like VSBattles says. "Outerversal" is an erroneous leap interpretation outside of creation and puts too many shit into the interpretation. There's just Oblivion who is the embodiment of nothingness, an Omnilock, but he has no power over LT and the other abstracts. Stick to what's canon instead of using VSBattles logic, provide a source and feat of Oblivion overpowering the rest of the Abstracts on his own with his own power instead of taking stories out of context.

Outerversal was designed to make characters with shit to poor baseline Multiversal feats look Haxy Conceptual shit that was designed to favor VN characters that took advantage of playing with concepty dimension shit with barely any feats to put them above dimensioned characters with more feats. They put baseline Multiversal Chousin on top of Beyondeyr and Mxy for christ's sake, even though Beyonder and Mxy have way more feats. They put Chaos Gods with subpar Multiversal feats on equity to Lucifer because muh dimensional tiering.

It's all bullshit, that entire forum's ground work was based in the foundation of Battle debaters who couldn't stand ground with their pet series against Comics without some sort of artificial BS tiering system.

Believe what you wish, but stop pretending you had a basis in this .

@ganya: he said that it is just his fragment of power when chaos king died means he meant that the multiversal level chaos king was the fragment of his power otherwise he could tell that mikaboshi is only his fraction of power before.(he referred to the multiversal level being)

I don't care that scans still says everything and the truth is the truth

and the feats make the beign stronger than lt

Plus it makes sense as Oblivion existed before the marvel multiverse and he is the one who created it but toaa created the universe through him that's why he doesn't know how he created the universe.

I guess you should watch this video

https://youtu.be/6LQucPSbp-c

Being that lives beyond the marvel multiverse are called outerversal beings and it exists in marvel comics

You're going to pick an old, clearly hyperbolic scan that was released just around when PR Beyonder debuted, over the other contradicting, more current canonical Multiverse origin stories under TOAA and FF?

Your explanation is your headcanon using Outerverse Dimensional Tiering logic which doesn't exist in Marvel canon which ignores feats, ignores that Oblivion is equal to Eternity, Infinity and Death by on panel feats of equity to them. And that Infinity is equal to Oblivion on panel. If Oblivion was truly powerful, he would have one shotted Marvel's Multiverse and be over with his nothingness goals.

The fact that LT puts Eternity as of more importance of the four implies that Eternity is more powerful than Oblivion. There is nothing to discuss. Have fun with your head canon.

@sungsam: the scans show that Oblivion created the marvel universe and I already explained why the newly written Oblivion is way stronger than the lt.

Death stomps

You're rewording the entire story to make it seem different with your head canon in. I only go by scans, not head canon. Chaos King's Multiversal Power = Pantheons, not Oblivion. So Oblivion cannot claim power that was not his that he stole by his aspect as his own to scale from an infinitesimal. It's as simple as that.

Marvel already declares Oblivion below LT and is consistent with his portrayal in Quasar as an equal to Infinity. Their bios coinciding with the portrayal of Oblivion's relationship to the other abstracts >>>> you taking scans out of context.

The origin of the Marvel Multiverse is contradicted between the Beyonders, First Firmament and Oblivion all under TOAA, with not a clarity to reconcile a connection to all of them... There isn't a consistent clarity to Marvel's Omniversal origins, let alone LT.

Chaos king goal was to absorb everything which was already a multiversal threat in which he was also capable of absorbing abstracts so easily and that was only fraction of his power and the newest Oblivion says he doesn't exist ,he is unbound by dimensions means he is greather not further which doesn't make any sense, everything for him is a dream and illusion and whatever dies goes to him,his true form is void,he has no concept he is just nothingness>> living tribunal

1) he exists that's why he can be erased

2)he is bound to dimensions

3)all the abstracts that die go to him

He is the one who created everything in marvel multiverse

http://imgur.com/gallery/otbNaNd

Chaos King was powered by the Gods and Pantheons, not Oblivion's own power. Chaos King did not absorb the infinite Multiverse, he had to steal the power of Gods first and slowly and would have been one shotted by a basic Multiversal at base. Any Abstract can do that.

Your vague scan never said that LT has no judgement on Oblivion as a character or inferior to Oblivion. Only that LT has no presence in the nothingness. And Oblivion is treated as co-equal to the other three Abstracts on panel explicitly. If he was more powerful, that wouldn't be the case.

The Bio is in line with the Quasar story where Oblivion was stalemated by a mere M-Body of Infinity in his own dimension. If Oblivion was superior to the other abstracts, he would have already one shotted them all by now, but he can't.

There is no judgement for him and he's been seen only sometimes with the abstracts,he has never been toyed by a villan like other abstracts nor detroyed plus in chaos king ark his small fraction of power could suck the multiverse (infinite power absorption) plus he explained what he is he is way beyond tribunal.

LT says that the nothingness doesn't have his face, it says nothing about Oblivion as a character being superior to him.

Oblivion already has explicit on panel feats of being equal to Infinity, Eternity and Death. The idea that Oblivion in the Quasar story was an M-Body is odd as it would be illogical for the embodiment of nothingness to embody an M-Body is his own realm for no reason. He was stalemate by infinity and confirmed by guide books as being below LT.

@sungsam: Oblivion is the white space of paper and one above all is the writer.

https://m.imgur.com/DqAQtmc

He has no judgement for Oblivion

@sungsam: the Chaos king Oblivion is different he explained what he is and whatever he explained about himself is far greater than the tribunal.

Beyond means away, if you transcend, that would literally imply greater and superiority, but that's not the case. If Oblivion said he transcends LT's own power, not just being away from him, you would be right, but it would still be hyperbolic.

Oblivion's feats show that he is literally just equal in authority, power and co-position to the other abstracts and shares a co-equal position of power in a four way Omniversal corner stone/compass council to the other three. The fact that he is affected by pressure and compromise by Infinity already proves that.

Infinity is the only one confirmed an M-Body in the story. There is nothing to suggest that Oblivion depicted was an M-Body, that was a speculation. And even then, it wouldn't matter as if Oblivion was truly more powerful than Infinity, then his mere M-Body can solo all of Marvel's Abstracts, but he never did it and nothing to imply he can. The fact that Oblivion needs to resort to indirect confrontation to achieve his goals already proves he has limited influence in Creation.

@sungsam: I'm talking about power here not things and whatever Oblivion said was beyond what the living tribunal is itself.Im beyond dimensions means I'm greather than dimensions not away from dimensions.

Death stomps.

Please stop with this hyperverse, outerverse, 1A, 2A, infinite dimensional and a million other variables that make no sense or have anything to do with on-panel feats and solely revolve around fanbased theories.

If you're beyond a building, you're outside it. Doesn't mean you can destroy a building. Beyond is statement of location.

There is nothing to suggest to explicitly imply that Oblivion is more powerful than LT, Eternity, Infinity and Death. The fact that Oblivion needs to form pacts and agreements with the other 3 below LT proves that he is bound by pressure, rules and compromise. So he cannot be more powerful than all of them nor is he substantially overpowering against dimensions that which the other abstracts embody as part of their being. Oblivion is relatively an outsider among Abstracts, but he's not superior to them, he's just edgy.

The only Nigh Omnipotent being from Marvel who can actually fit your description of Oblivion was Pre-Retcon Beyonder because he explicitly states that the Marvel Multiverse (infinite dimensions) and all its Conceptual Beings did not even exist to him and was indistinguishable to his own imagination. So he is beyond them at a conceptual/reality level. Beyonder is both beyond dimensions and is superior and can destroy dimensions and the story/narrative of secret wars, implies and demonstrates this.

https://youtu.be/6LQucPSbp-c watch this video

@sungsam: he is also beyond existence if he is beyond all this he has the power greater than dimensions in my opinion so it doesn't make any sense why he is not able to one shot the Omniverse .Beyond=greather he is greather than the concept of infinity dimensions and existence.Then how do you think the Ivory king killed all the abstracts,living tribunal and destroyed everything.

And VSBattles wiki would be wrong in this case. Matthew Schroeder who is the supporter of Oblivion as 1A even slightly doubted that if you read a specific thread, where someone criticized how the profiles contradict Marvel's guide book, they just deliberately reject it, they even admit they contradict canon in Oblivion's own profile. VSBattles gets aloof on their own articles now and then and behind the lines, they know their tiers are theoretical sometimes and are speculative.

Dimensions = Time and Space = Reality, Time and Space is dimensions and VSBattles knows this. So being an Omnilock is literally Outerversal. Even VSBattles equates Outerversal with Omnilock. What VSBattles doesn't understand is that just because you're outside of reality, doesn't mean you can destroy all of reality. It's just location and a defensive ability.

Example. If a Ghost like Casper transcends physical form, does it mean it can destroy all matter? No, it's just outside physical world, doesn't mean it has power over it. Casper needs feats he can destroy all of physical world.

Just like Oblivion needs feats of destroying the Marvel Omniverse. Just because he's outside the Omniverrse, doesn't mean he can 1 shot it. He needs suggestions and good feats to imply such a thing. Adding "concepts" doesn't really do anything because Oblivion was stalemated by fellow Conceptual Abstracts.

@sungsam: I already explained why he is beyond hyperverse level and also said that he was never a part of the living tribunals judgement even the vs wikia site says hes outerverse level.

Omnilock is outside of time, space, reality, but it's not outside of everything while he is also beyond dimensions and beyond existence which a omnilock being isn't.

death makes him die. bc, well, u know

I don't doubt that Oblivion is Multiversal, he definitely is, he's equal to Eternity and Infinity, and they're all extremely powerful Multiversal beings.... but Chaos King's feats are empowered by Gods and Pantheons and Chaos King didn't one shot the Multiverse casually, he was progressing to destroy it, it's not like Beyonder who could have destroyed Marvel's Multiverse any time he wanted with ridiculous ease. Oblivion doesn't have a right to scale from that.

Oblivion is an Omnilock, that's pretty much it. That only means it's harder to affect him, but he doesn't have power over LT and the other Abstracts. The only thing in-canonically would be close to surpassing LT's penultimate power is probably First Firmament and the Infinites as well as Beyonder, who, you know, is now regarded as 1A by your Tiering Standards.

Sorry if I came across as sarcastic, was in a bad mood.

Infinite absorption of everything makes him multiversal.

Except that small fraction was only like Skyfather level at base and only became Multiversal because it absorbed Pantheons and Gods.

Marvel places Oblivion below Living Tribunal according to a Guide book scan.

His small fraction of power was going to destroy the marvel multiverse.He is beyond the concept of dimensions and existence so he can destroy everything

Regarding the Marvel Handbook implying Oblivion is just like the other abstracts is outright inconsistent, because Oblivion has never been subject to the Living Tribunal's judgment. He exists on a level beyond the Living Tribunal and it contradicts over a dozen statements that say EVERYTHING, including the abstracts, come from and will go to Oblivion.

On top of that, Living Tribunal himself states he has no face (which could mean he has no judgment, which is the primary function of his faces) in nothingness.

https://i.imgur.com/DqAQtmc.jpg

By the way, did you know VSBattles also places Death of the Endless as 1A now? She will claim time (dimensions) itself. She will kill Destiny who is now 1A according to VSBattles and she's more powerful than Dream who is also now partly 1A.

Death is 1A herself, so trying to use VSBattles logic in support of Oblivion isn't really determinant honestly, because Death is seen as 1A thanks to the same people who made the tiering system that you use popular.

Except Oblivion's own profile in Marvel's guide says that his realm has a Chronal Dimension and places him on equity to Eternity, Infinity and Death

And being beyond dimensions is only an Omnilock feat, it doesn't mean you can destroy everything you are outside to since they have no feats to suggest it.

@sungsam: as he Oblivion said he existed before the creation of the universe he is non existent while all the abstracts exist he is beyond dimensions while all abstracts are not beyond dimensions even the beyonder infinite dimensional but Oblivion is beyond dimensions which makes him second strongest in marvel.

He operates beyond the marvel multiverse and he's true form is non existent.

If Oblivion is superior to infinity, why would his Avatar be equal to Infinity? Even if it was just Avatars.

What's your evidence that between abstracts, their power comparison ratio is different with Avatars? Avatars are empowered by the original abstracts power, it still applies.

Chaos King absorbed the power of pantheons and many gods to become Multiversal. His feats should not be credited to Oblivion. Lol

They even didn't fight and those where just their avatars and I'm talking about the chaos king Oblivion and whatever he stated is true which makes him stronger than even beyonder.

"MUH CONCEPTS"

Uh huh. Oblivion is equal to Eternity, Infinity and Death. Infinity stalemated Oblivion in Oblivion's own realm (his own home field advantage).

Uh huh.

Full power Oblivion probably takes this and quite easily

Oblivion is a void who doesn't have a start and end which surpasses the concept of death plus his form is only a illusion and his true form should be a endless void that never ends and gives birth to death to bring to give people death and bring them to the void,death itself has a end but Oblivion does not and after death there are many concepts beyond death.

Death exists but Oblivion is beyond existence he doesn't exist

He is also beyond dimensions

This video explains oblivion pretty well

https://youtu.be/_I_FfgRDf4A

Death.

@wollfmyth209: Agreed. I give this one to Death.

Death wins.