How I think equality amongst the genders/diversity should work

The actual title of this blog post is:

Why I'm for and against the feminism movement and how diversity in comicbooks should be handled

I have a feeling that many of the people who read this post may miss my point. That's not because people are stupid or haven't explained clearly enough but with these two big issues, people always seem to. A year ago, I use to write very angry blog posts on a Tumblr about how I hated the feminism community that was surrounding comicbooks. How they were never satisfied and I felt they tended to be very angry instead doing the simple solution of just not buying the comic. But this isn't what I'm arguing about today. I was walking around in my small kitchen waiting for the kettle to boil and I thought to myself: female characters aren't written correctly because most writers grew up with the old fashioned comics, I say old fashioned because of lot the writers from the previous generation didn't really write female superheroes. Look at Wonder Woman, yes she's iconic but not in the same way Batman and Superman are. Why? I think it's because girls of the '40s were reading girl comics and superhero didn't fit into that. And I think writers take inspiration from what they grew up with as children and because of this, they've ended up with the same formula. And many will argue they're grown up “super-fanboys” and just like the look of 'perfect' women.

Starfire is a prime example of this. Her new body and they way she flaunts herself is treated like that. I agree with people getting angry. What I don't think was logical was that people were doing this like: my six year old daughter's reaction to Starfire. It's not the target audience, that's not the correct way of doing it. Comicbooks are aimed from 15-34 year olds. And that means boys and girls. They're not going to win any girl fans if they objectify women in certain ways, even in the most subtle way possible. Most believe that they should just “hire more female workers” I don't think it's that simple. There are a lot more male comicbook writers and artists out there. But before I digress from my point and really start up debates over feminism in comic books, I return. There is a huge unfair treatment and many fans express this constantly but, writers seem to ignore it. Why? Because writers think they're the overlords of stories and to a sense that's true. I'm a writer, I've written a book and happen to be starting on the second soon. People ask me: why don't you write this and this? Because I write whatever I feel like writing. I think that's true in their case but the problem is, they've got a variety of people to please.

Another thing (and also the other side to this post) is diversity. Currently, there are a lot of things in this matter that are changing. I've noticed more and more heroes being of different origin and culture. But DC and Marvel have a habit of flaunting this around. This isn't something we should adopt. I was talking about the story of me in my kitchen making tea, this also occurred to me: diversity is something a writer should chose to do. Not because a fan tells him to do or he feels obligated but because he/she is trying to create a world that is similar to ours with superheroes and villains and power. Yes, there is a sense of pure fiction but realism in comicbooks works phenomenally to an extent. In our world, we have different religions and cultures and races etc. I think it's important we all realise this and it'll strengthen story telling. So what is the point: We should have equality among everyone and a way of dealing with it should be by not buying something. There's a lot more I can say but I'm rather nervous due to this being my first article about comics in a while now. I hope you all enjoy reading and if you don't like my view, just say but please don't insult me.

 I agree with everything you said! Usually, if there was a comic that I don't like, I just don't read it since it is a waste of my time reading something that just makes me angry.  I also agree that there needs to be more equality in comics, especially with the treatment of female superheroes working with male superheroes.  It always seems like in comics that either the male hero is stronger than the female heroine or the female heroine is stronger than the male hero.  It was never shown that both sides are equal in strength and wit and it was never shown how they treat each other like equals exactly.  Maybe if there were more comics that shown both male and female superheroes actually coming to similar terms with each other, then it would be interesting to see where it goes.  I also love the idea about diverse characters being in comics, but like you said, it needs to be written because the writer wants it, not being forced on them because they might want to do research on the different cultures if they are really interested in writing stories about those cultures, but when they are forced into writing diverse characters, they might not take the time to research the different culture because they are not interested in it.

@Space_Captain_Ulyverse: female characters aren't written correctly because most writers grew up with the old fashioned comics

IMHO, one reason why this issue continues to be so divisive and explosive is because ideas of writing correctly. While I'm as guilty of this as many others, the truth is that there are many different types of women (and men) out there, and to believe that there is some archetype of an accurate portrayal of women is an inherent flaw to the argument. There are women who are exactly like the "incorrect" women of comic books, down to their near-anatomically-impossible bodies and their more naked than clothed dress styles. In personalities there are women who conform to the female stereotypes with pleasure, while there are women who have extremely violent reactions to these norms in the manner of Maureen Dowd. There are women in the real world that readers like and dislike; the thought that a woman doesn't ever behave in a certain manner is in fact a truly closed mind.

Look at Wonder Woman, yes she's iconic but not in the same way Batman and Superman are.Why? I think it's because girls of the '40s were reading girl comics and superhero didn't fit into that. And I think writers take inspiration from what they grew up with as children and because of this, they've ended up with the same formula. And many will argue they're grown up “super-fanboys” and just like the look of 'perfect' women.

To this I would say yes... and no. It is true that she is not nearly as iconic. But I think much of that has to do with her appeal beyond womanhood, as well as the reception of the readership. Batman and Superman both have a really sharp hook to their stories... they tap into the superhero archetype in a way that very few others manage to achieve... while Wonder Woman fails to accomplish this, it isn't something that is inhibited by her being a woman. In fact, her being a woman may perhaps allow her a limited market of "hook" unavailable to male counterparts. Subscribing to that does begin to limit her, but the truth is that there is very little that can be accomplished to alter this reality. While popular because of their stories today, their iconic statuses have been firmly cemented to such an extreme that very little can alter the playing fields at so high a level. In that regard you are absolutely spot on, because of the associated histories. However, I think even an intentioned writer would be unable to escape from this fact... the characters are what they are, and that will not change. Batman and Superman will always be more iconic than Wonder Woman (and more iconic than Green Lantern and Flash, btw). However, the fact also remains that Wonder Woman will always be more iconic than Plastic Man, Booster Gold, and even some current super-populars like Animal Man and Swamp Thing. It is an unfortunate but (IMO) irrevocable truth.

Starfire is a prime example of this. Her new body and they way she flaunts herself is treated like that. I agree with people getting angry. What I don't think was logical was that people were doing this like: my six year old daughter's reaction to Starfire. It's not the target audience, that's not the correct way of doing it.

500% yes. The error in judgement (again, IMHO) develops not within the reading of the comic itself, but into the purpose of character. Because of her developed recognizability via the Teen Titans cartoon show, it became a given that the publicly recognizable character should also be a demonstrable role model at all times, creating the belief that a 6 year old should be able to view all appearances of the character, with a retained level of dignity and youthful role model status. But the character's appearance in Red Hood and the Outlaws was very explicitly intended to divorce the character from that history. The same standard would not be applied to the rest of the cast of that show (nor has it, in the case of the similarly miscreanted Roy Harper (whose example would then demand that the younger show conform to his addicted habit in order to meet the pre-established history, thus nullifying the argument)), it is (IMHO) something that was directly targeted in order to derive drama, creating a villain that would easily incite disgust. Because a character appears on a TV show viewed by children does not mean that the future of the character should be inhibited by those appearances, nor has such a standard been applied to the male heroes, including but not limited to (and yes, I know I'm pulling the cliche list-starters) the alcoholic Tony Stark, wife-beating Hank Pym, the oft-misogynstic Green Lantern, the murderous Deadpool and Wolverine and Robin(s), and the Beefcake shirtless male heroes (not to mention the occasional pantsless heroes).

Most believe that they should just “hire more female workers” I don't think it's that simple. There are a lot more male comicbook writers and artists out there.

Again, I find that you are spot on. The objective of comic book companies, especially in these oft-noted struggling times, is to make money, which we'll tentatively suggest has something to do with story quality. While the chart-toppers might make this seem like an untrue statement, let us accept for the sake of discussion that the first priority at least should be the caliber of the story. While there are some female writers, I do believe that you are correct that their is proportionately a much higher abundance of men. And to hold true to the first aim of the stories, hiring more women does not explicitly achieve that aim. If the companies hired many more women and the stories all sucked, we'd whine regardless of gender. So simply hiring more female workers is not the answer. Hiring good female workers is the answer. And those are just as difficult to find as good male creators. The search is for the good, not for the gender. And that part is non-discriminatory. If there was a sudden flood of strong female talent that dominated the titles, I wouldn't complain for a moment. Because there would be a flood of strong talent. But that isn't something that anyone can just make happen, or else they would've done that already. And there are talented women: Gail Simone, Marjorie Liu, Nicola Scott and Amanda Conner are certainly talented. And their talent isn't gender discriminatory either, I find them to be more talented than many male writers or artists. I like them because they're talented, not because they're women. On the flip side, I don't like Ivan Reis because he is a man, I don't worship Scott Snyder because he is a man, I like them both because they're talented. The comic book industry needs talent.

diversity is something a writer should chose to do

While I agree, I must also applaud DC as a publisher for putting diversity as a piece of their agenda... while this is entirely conjecture on my part, I like to think that DC presented to the stable of creators that they'd like to diversify the line... and the creators responded saying "yes, I'd like to participate in that". So in that sense, the writers would be electing that diversity. The publisher action might have resulted from fan demand, but the creators still made the choice to participate. I'm perhaps an idealist, but I like to think that the diversity of these characters is something a writer would love to explore.

There's a lot more I can say but I'm rather nervous due to this being my first article about comics in a while now. I hope you all enjoy reading and if you don't like my view, just say but please don't insult me.

Thanks for putting this out here, don't be nervous to share any and all ponderings, I look forward to your next one. And don't be worried about insulting posters (hopefully you saw my criticism as constructive response rather than an insult).

@TheOptimist: Thank you so much! It's nice to see someone having to gone to the effort and go through my posts, it's made me feel a lot more comfortable writing stuff. However; (and I must point this out) you called Hank Pym a wife beater. He hit Janet once in 616 under mind control, which is horrible yes but I refer to Mr. Fantastic and how he hit Susan after losing Valeria I think it was? And we don't question his behaviour. Though it's this idea of "well, that wasn't OOC for Reed" and so it's slipped under. Sorry, my inner love for Hank Pym always makes me go off on one about that!

@Rabbitearsblog: Thank you to you too! S'nice to hear that people can see through my eyes, sort of thing.

And due to lovely, constructive comments I will be carrying on writing stern opinion-articles about Comics and such things!

@Space_Captain_Ulyverse: Ah... honestly, it has been so long since I reflected on those particulars that I even forgot the circumstances of the incident... I can't recall the Mr. Fantastic thing, but that would royally tick me off. I've always held a "one and you're done" policy on hitting in my relationships... even as Marvel's premier family, in those circumstances I'd be disappointed that the relationship continuing. That's very disconcerting.

@Space_Captain_Ulyverse:

Most believe that they should just “hire more female workers” I don't think it's that simple. There are a lot more male comicbook writers and artists out there.

Again, I find that you are spot on. The objective of comic book companies, especially in these oft-noted struggling times, is to make money, which we'll tentatively suggest has something to do with story quality. While the chart-toppers might make this seem like an untrue statement, let us accept for the sake of discussion that the first priority at least should be the caliber of the story. While there are some female writers, I do believe that you are correct that their is proportionately a much higher abundance of men. And to hold true to the first aim of the stories, hiring more women does not explicitly achieve that aim. If the companies hired many more women and the stories all sucked, we'd whine regardless of gender. So simply hiring more female workers is not the answer. Hiring good female workers is the answer. And those are just as difficult to find as good male creators. The search is for the good, not for the gender. And that part is non-discriminatory. If there was a sudden flood of strong female talent that dominated the titles, I wouldn't complain for a moment. Because there would be a flood of strong talent. But that isn't something that anyone can just make happen, or else they would've done that already. And there are talented women: Gail Simone, Marjorie Liu, Nicola Scott and Amanda Conner are certainly talented. And their talent isn't gender discriminatory either, I find them to be more talented than many male writers or artists. I like them because they're talented, not because they're women. On the flip side, I don't like Ivan Reis because he is a man, I don't worship Scott Snyder because he is a man, I like them both because they're talented. The comic book industry needs talent.

diversity is something a writer should chose to do

While I agree, I must also applaud DC as a publisher for putting diversity as a piece of their agenda... while this is entirely conjecture on my part, I like to think that DC presented to the stable of creators that they'd like to diversify the line... and the creators responded saying "yes, I'd like to participate in that". So in that sense, the writers would be electing that diversity. The publisher action might have resulted from fan demand, but the creators still made the choice to participate. I'm perhaps an idealist, but I like to think that the diversity of these characters is something a writer would love to explore.