WB hired you to give your wise suggestions to the Filmmakers: Snyder and his team.
So the upcoming movies will be a great succeess.
What's your plan?
Yeah, turns out this has been the Flashpoint universe all along, and that's why things are so f*cked up
FIX IT BARRY!
Stop
Try to come out first next time *shrug* They just copy MCU formula, there isn't much of a difference between the two, it's just people like to make battles over trivial things.
Have a coherent vision of what you want to do and what direction the universe should go. People underestimate how important that's been to the MCU/Foxverse's success. Just randomly on the dime announcing a bunch or unrelated films and spinoffs with no rhyme of reason doesn't work, Sony already proved this with their failed Spider-Man Cinematic Universe rolls eyes.
It's not copying Marvel to do that. It's called being a goodstoryteller. It's seriously that simple.
Have a coherent vision of what you want to do and what direction the universe should go. People underestimate how important that's been to the MCU/Foxverse's success. Just randomly on the dime announcing a bunch or unrelated films and spinoffs with no rhyme of reason doesn't work, Sony already proved this with their failed Spider-Man Cinematic Universe rolls eyes.
It's not copying Marvel to do that. It's called being a goodstoryteller. It's seriously that simple.
Which seems kinda odd to complain about in this case. Since the Fox-verse is/was a series of movies thats built mostly on top of each other, added a couple of spin offs, was reset so most of it didn't happen and is now on a different course thats not exactly shaping up terribly well.
Meanwhile Marvel's approach was to release a bunch of movies, then release one more than tied them all together, see them all venture off into different parts again, pull them all together for another round, rinse and repeat.
The DCEU has one guy who is directing the main movies (MoS->BvS->JL), then you have a bunch of other people who get to launch the other movies based on the events or appearances in the main ones that tie into one another. Like SS does this with an post-cred scene that lets us know how Bruce knows where certain people are, which bridges it to JL. Meanwhile WW seems to be going for an explanation why she was seemingly retired in BvS and perhaps why she's chosen to return for JL (but thats just my speculation on what we've seen so far).
You are right that announcing spinoffs like Sony did was a mistake... but think about it, Sony was already struggling to reinvent and properly use Spiderman to his full potential, so they panicked and decided a shared movie universe was what was needed... only they had a much smaller sandbox than DC, Marvel or even Fox does. DC on the other hand announced their intentions for a shared universe before BvS was released and most of the SS cast hadn't even been hired yet. So before BvS was even in the cinema's they knew which movies they wanted to do and which characters they wanted to work on... thats not really the thinking of a company that doesn't know where it wants to go.
And on top of it all, despite BvS' poor reception, it doesn't appear to have shaken WB since Snyder is still in charge of the big guns in all of this.
As for suggestions for Snyder et al:
Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and Justice League are Zack Snyders vision to set up the story of Superman. He was asked once if he'd make a Superman movie and he said no, because Superman is boring. Not because he can beat anyone - the reason most people cite for him being boring, but because he's always been inherently good, known what to do and is loved by all. He said back then that if he were to make a movie of Superman he would show why he is all of those things. So in Man of Steel, Snyder gives Superman this confusion about his life, the story of a good man who feels alone and trying to find his place in the world. Then gives him the knowledge of who he is, but makes the remainder of his people a bunch of world killing villains. Then people wonder why Superman doesn't grin all the time. "Hey kid, you're alone in the Universe and people always fear what they don't understand, oh but wait, your uncle twice removed came here because you sent him a signal and wants to kill everything you've ever known and loved and it's kinda your fault for not being one-dimensional and accepting what you have without question, but be a good boy and smile a lot, OK? Because that's what really matters". So Superman is left in a position where either he kills Zod, or Zod is not only going to kill the family right in front of them, but vows to kill every single human on Earth. So he kills Zod. Hard choice I'm sure. Only after he does, he feels gut-wrenching pain and torment for having done it.
So then Batman v Superman comes out and builds on what happened in Man of Steel - which was a Superhero on his first day on the job who couldn't actually draw the Kryptonians away from the City, because they weren't overly interested in fighting him, they wanted to stay in the City of Metropolis and terra-form the Earth into Krypton and kill 7 billion people and God only knows how many other living things, so in the end a fair amount of a big city was destroyed and thousands of people died. Batman saw it all from Ground Zero and wasn't happy. He didn't see Superman as a villain, but as a potential threat in the future given the track record of good people he knew, so decided to take him out because who else could if he ever turned bad? Long story short, Batman realises he's become Joe Chill, the guy who killed his parents (which was the whole point of the Martha sequence, not simply to make him realise that their mothers had the same name) and so Batman is turned good again by Superman (Yay for Super) and then Wonder Woman jumps in as they all fight Doomsday and Superman sacrifices his life to save the woman he loves. (Awww)
However, Superman being the comic incarnation of Jesus, is going to rise again, and when he does, he'll have earned the respect and admiration of the world as their saviour, the friendship of Batman, learned why even in extreme circumstances killing must be the absolute last resort and found his place in the world. All of the qualities Zack Snyder said was boring about Superman, he has given Superman a reason to have them. And so Justice League will complete Zack Snyders Superman Origin Trilogy.
Now, as much as I think that all of that is really quite clever, as well as Suicide Squad capitalising on the 'death' of Superman to find a reason to exist, the DCEU movies so far have problems, and they are largely due to editing and a few poorer ideas.
Superman fighting the world engine was probably something that worked on paper but not really in reality, and General Swanwicks "Are you Effing stupid?" at the end of MoS was terrible, and I personally saw no reason for the colour pallet to be blue all the way through. Not that I have anything against the blue hue, but it would have served better at times the story was more bleak and to redden it up a bit when the story was brighter, to give the viewer a distinction and give the blue hue a purpose.
The 3 hour cut of BvS was a very good movie, and was the original cut of the film, but the execs at WB got nervous, forgot about 6 3 hour Middle Earth movies and decided kids couldn't sit on their arse for that amount of time. They were wrong and because of it, they turned an excellent movie into a very divisive one.
Suicide Squad was 2 different movies made by 2 groups of people that had been slung together. David Ayer made one, and the WB exec made the other. Then they got a test audience to sit through lots of different parts of the movie to find out which bits they liked, and which bits they didn't and then made David Ayer put the liked bits in - to hell with continuity and story telling, lets fudge a film around what the audience thinks they want, because Snakes on a Plane was awesome.
If you ask me, what the DCEU needs, over and above ANYTHING else, is someone who'll tell the studio executives to stay the hell out of the editing room, because Fan4stic was a disaster and is what happens when execs over-rule the movie makers. Only when that happens (and dear God please let Patty Jenkins have the final say on Wonder Woman) can you then start to worry about and fix things like the World Engine fight, poor dialogue moments, Lex Luthors sexual tension with a gummy bear and Enchantress's voice. But those are little things against movies that are obviously poorly pieced together in the editing room because execs get the final say.
Stop
Man of Steel, Batman v Superman and Justice League are Zack Snyders vision to set up the story of Superman. He was asked once if he'd make a Superman movie and he said no, because Superman is boring. Not because he can beat anyone - the reason most people cite for him being boring, but because he's always been inherently good, known what to do and is loved by all. He said back then that if he were to make a movie of Superman he would show why he is all of those things. So in Man of Steel, Snyder gives Superman this confusion about his life, the story of a good man who feels alone and trying to find his place in the world. Then gives him the knowledge of who he is, but makes the remainder of his people a bunch of world killing villains. Then people wonder why Superman doesn't grin all the time. "Hey kid, you're alone in the Universe and people always fear what they don't understand, oh but wait, your uncle twice removed came here because you sent him a signal and wants to kill everything you've ever known and loved and it's kinda your fault for not being one-dimensional and accepting what you have without question, but be a good boy and smile a lot, OK? Because that's what really matters". So Superman is left in a position where either he kills Zod, or Zod is not only going to kill the family right in front of them, but vows to kill every single human on Earth. So he kills Zod. Hard choice I'm sure. Only after he does, he feels gut-wrenching pain and torment for having done it.
So then Batman v Superman comes out and builds on what happened in Man of Steel - which was a Superhero on his first day on the job who couldn't actually draw the Kryptonians away from the City, because they weren't overly interested in fighting him, they wanted to stay in the City of Metropolis and terra-form the Earth into Krypton and kill 7 billion people and God only knows how many other living things, so in the end a fair amount of a big city was destroyed and thousands of people died. Batman saw it all from Ground Zero and wasn't happy. He didn't see Superman as a villain, but as a potential threat in the future given the track record of good people he knew, so decided to take him out because who else could if he ever turned bad? Long story short, Batman realises he's become Joe Chill, the guy who killed his parents (which was the whole point of the Martha sequence, not simply to make him realise that their mothers had the same name) and so Batman is turned good again by Superman (Yay for Super) and then Wonder Woman jumps in as they all fight Doomsday and Superman sacrifices his life to save the woman he loves. (Awww)
However, Superman being the comic incarnation of Jesus, is going to rise again, and when he does, he'll have earned the respect and admiration of the world as their saviour, the friendship of Batman, learned why even in extreme circumstances killing must be the absolute last resort and found his place in the world. All of the qualities Zack Snyder said was boring about Superman, he has given Superman a reason to have them. And so Justice League will complete Zack Snyders Superman Origin Trilogy.
Now, as much as I think that all of that is really quite clever, as well as Suicide Squad capitalising on the 'death' of Superman to find a reason to exist, the DCEU movies so far have problems, and they are largely due to editing and a few poorer ideas.
Superman fighting the world engine was probably something that worked on paper but not really in reality, and General Swanwicks "Are you Effing stupid?" at the end of MoS was terrible, and I personally saw no reason for the colour pallet to be blue all the way through. Not that I have anything against the blue hue, but it would have served better at times the story was more bleak and to redden it up a bit when the story was brighter, to give the viewer a distinction and give the blue hue a purpose.
The 3 hour cut of BvS was a very good movie, and was the original cut of the film, but the execs at WB got nervous, forgot about 6 3 hour Middle Earth movies and decided kids couldn't sit on their arse for that amount of time. They were wrong and because of it, they turned an excellent movie into a very divisive one.
Suicide Squad was 2 different movies made by 2 groups of people that had been slung together. David Ayer made one, and the WB exec made the other. Then they got a test audience to sit through lots of different parts of the movie to find out which bits they liked, and which bits they didn't and then made David Ayer put the liked bits in - to hell with continuity and story telling, lets fudge a film around what the audience thinks they want, because Snakes on a Plane was awesome.
If you ask me, what the DCEU needs, over and above ANYTHING else, is someone who'll tell the studio executives to stay the hell out of the editing room, because Fan4stic was a disaster and is what happens when execs over-rule the movie makers. Only when that happens (and dear God please let Patty Jenkins have the final say on Wonder Woman) can you then start to worry about and fix things like the World Engine fight, poor dialogue moments, Lex Luthors sexual tension with a gummy bear and Enchantress's voice. But those are little things against movies that are obviously poorly pieced together in the editing room because execs get the final say.
Some people think the DCEU is perfectly fine and needs no fixing.
I don't think that is correct, but if you ask me i'd say higher better directors and no studio involvement.
I'm not one to judge Patty Jenkins as she only has one movie under her belt and it was a good one. I'm not to sure on Snyder tho... given his less than impressive track record.
So i'm not to optimistic on JL.
If it was up to me, i'd go back in time and not hire Snyder from the get go.
George Miller.
What ruined Suicide Squad was the WB's involvement, Ayer had to write an entire script in 3 months based on my knowledge and there were major re shoots after BvS was released . if you re-call before Matt Reeves agreed to Direct "The Batman", he initially walked out on WB due to them not giving complete control over the project.
Stop
@all-father: It seems like he has a very single-minded vision and if the studio want him to change things, he can't. Hence the theatrical releases of BvS and Watchmen, but the Ultimate cuts are much better. I think this is based in the problem that Snyder appears to have very little imagination story-wise and seems to make a movie precisely as the screenplay says. He wrote Sucker Punch, and the story was crap. He co-wrote 300 RoaE, basing off a to-this-day still unfinished graphic novel by Frank Miller (Xerxes) and that was also crap.
I think Snyder - and the movie going audience - could really benefit from him teaming up with a director who's great at telling a story, letting Snyder deal with action and shots, while the other director crafts the story itself. A movie arising out of that partnership would be outstandingly good.
Just cheer up, the whole premise of superhero films is silly in the first place, have so fun with it.
Not saying it should never be serious but you need a balance, which, imo, no DCEU has done yet.
Also some colour please, Man of Steel was ridiculous in that area. For a film about a guy powered by the sun in sure was grey
@DammeFavour: LOL the DCCU is about one step away from crashing and burning and some of you guys are still in denial.
@ham12: how's guardians of the galaxy 2?
DCEU is and will continue to make bank, it's not crashing anytime soon
@DammeFavour: then why did its biggest film to date bomb?
I'm sorry but if it dosent make money at the box office it's considered a failure, yes BvS made money but not through box office
@royal_warrior: lol.....BvS bombed? When?
Plus it's 3 movies in
@DammeFavour: by not meeting production costs
Forbes did a whole article about it and they estimated it made around 13 million after production and marketing costs and taking or the % of gross that the cinemas pull through
Just because a film makes 800 million or so don't assume it all goes back to studio when cinemas take between 25-66% depending of location in the world
@royal_warrior: Where did Forbes get its stats? The budget for Bvs is only like 600M or so including marketing.
Snyder didn't direct the second 300 movie
My advice though would be to stick to their guns, but learn to shoot em better. There's nothing wrong with the vision, in fact, what I see Snyder trying to do with these characters is far more compelling than his competitors. The problem al lies in the execution, so....execute better.
Make it generic. Boom!! A+ movie right there
This exactly
People who complain about the DCEU are dumb idiots who know next to nothing about cinema. Come at me!
@ouroborik: Lol I didn't say all that!
"@ham12: how's guardians of the galaxy 2?"
I don't get it. What's wrong with GOTG 2? Don't tell me you DC fanatics are still trying to spin it as a fail somehow. Lol
@ham12: I never claimed it failed. I'm pretty sure u made a bold prediction of it making about 900 million
@royal_warrior: Production costs are 250 million USD
@thelastdragonborn: + marketing of over 150 mil
@royal_warrior: so about 500 M then.. thats still 300+ M of profit. AoU had similiar amounts
Honestly, it seems like most of the "criticism" the movies get are the same regurgitated complaints people hear other people say. I don't take most of them seriously.
For example, a big one is "WB needs to stop meddling!'' None of us work for the industry, we have no idea what's going on, so we can't say that meddling is the true culprit.
"Change the tone! It's too bleak!'
"Fire Snyder!'
blah, blah blah.
Fact is, MOS made over 650 mil, BvS over 800mil, SS over 700 mil, none of them bombed, the universe isn't doomed, and contrary to popular belief, a bad RT score doesn't decide the fate of a movie franchise.
@the_stegman: I saw some people complaining the opposite xD. Damn hypocrites
For the latest ww trailer, this one channel (CBgirl or something like that) was saying "too many jokes!" yet was praising gotg 2 lol.
@thelastdragonborn: Huh, I didn't hear anything about too many jokes in WW, go figure. You have to know there are some that are super loyal to the current DCEU though and probably don't want it to become the MCU. lol.
@the_stegman: CHannel was notoriously anti dc though. I think her name is comicbookgirl and some other channel called comicbookcast
@the_stegman: CHannel was notoriously anti dc though. I think her name is comicbookgirl and some other channel called comicbookcast
oh, i know her, (comicbook girl 19) and she is anti DC. I watch Collider news and she's on there from time to time, I have literally never heard her say anything nice about DC, whenever they talk about it, she goes quiet.
@royal_warrior: so about 500 M then.. thats still 300+ M of profit. AoU had similiar amounts
yeah... not even close
This is BvS
And this is AoU
AoU made 3,61 times more profit than BvS
Even Doctor strange was more profitable
DCEU's most profitable movie is Suicide Squad (for the moment)
By now - not much. Perhaps establish in JL movie that Darkseid' agents were on Earth prior B v S' events, preparing ground for his invasion. They telepatically clouded minds of main characters, causing strige and anger. That's why Luthor was plain crazy, Batman was crazy violent and not too much of World Greatest Detective and Superman was superbland. Plus how else explain transition from menacing and serious (B v S) to cracking jokes during invasion (which promised in JL). That or relaunch entire DCEU with the same actors, via Rebirth-like event.
Also, get some good comics writer to create a script.
@thelastdragonborn: I don't Thonk ypu understand how things work
The STUDIO do not get total box office, they get between 25%-66% depending where the cinema is on the world
They roughly would only receive half of their box office which is optimistic so at the higher prediction the studio made around 440 mil which is only 40 mil profit and that's the highest estimation the lowest has them loosing over 100 mil
Stop over stuffing your movies and take your time-MOS,BVS,SS all three of them have a single complaint in all reviews its that there is too much world building for future movies in some way to catch up with marvel.There is no hurry when you have pre established giants like batman and superman,you dont need to do too much
@the_stegman: Lol dude take a look at this.. the channel is comicbookcast or something similiar
https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/820812821910781952
If you dont want to visit....
COmicbookcast put out a poll for the best movie of 2016 (superhero) and Batman v Superman won HANDILY and they ignored it and said Civil War won (even though it was behind 33%). Ill admit, I dont think BvS was the best cbm movie of 2016 but the poll that they set up clearly established BvS as the winner and they just straight up declared another winner lol. #kneepads
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