#1 Posted by Needlebay (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

Dojo setting. Nobody gets any weapons or gear. Simply a hth fight. Which team has greater skill overall?

Team Karate Kid

Batman

Lady Shiva

Main Image - Lady Shiva

Bronze Tiger

Cassandra Cain

Batgirl

Richard Dragon

Connor Hawke

vs

Iron Fist

Ultimate MvC3

Captain America

Daredevil

Daredevil

Black Panther

Shang-Chi

Secret Avengers #18

Echo

Elektra

By Harvey Tolibao
#2 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

Too close to call if we ignore Karate Kids PIS feats.

Echo might be the weak link for team Marvel, and Elektra's showings can be inconsistent at times

#3 Posted by Kemaloz_8 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

Too close to call if we ignore Karate Kids PIS feats.

Echo might be the weak link for team Marvel, and Elektra's showings can be inconsistent at times

Karate Kid doesn't have PIS feats. If you took away all of his feats of him doing ridiculous stuff then he would have no feats. PIS is something that a character normally doesn't do.

Oh and Val solos in seconds

#4 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kemaloz_8 said:

@SUNMAN said:

Too close to call if we ignore Karate Kids PIS feats.

Echo might be the weak link for team Marvel, and Elektra's showings can be inconsistent at times

Karate Kid doesn't have PIS feats. If you took away all of his feats of him doing ridiculous stuff then he would have no feats. PIS is something that a character normally doesn't do.

Oh and Val solos in seconds

so him losing to Batman was perfectly fine?

#5 Posted by Kerrotvorpoas (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

@Kemaloz_8 said:

@SUNMAN said:

Too close to call if we ignore Karate Kids PIS feats.

Echo might be the weak link for team Marvel, and Elektra's showings can be inconsistent at times

Karate Kid doesn't have PIS feats. If you took away all of his feats of him doing ridiculous stuff then he would have no feats. PIS is something that a character normally doesn't do.

Oh and Val solos in seconds

so him losing to Batman was perfectly fine?

He never lost to Batman, once they fought where he was dying, he was kicking Batman's ass until Black Lighting zapped him from behind, another time they fought and it was inconclusive. Both are instances of PIS. Karate Kid regularly performs feats that would put far above street level status, if he wanted to he could kill Bruce would a single hit.

#6 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

#7 Posted by Kerrotvorpoas (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

#8 Posted by Immortal777 (7328 posts) - - Show Bio

With KK team 1 for sure

#9 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

#10 Posted by Kerrotvorpoas (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

No you aren't, if you were you would know that instance of Batman lasting more than a second against Val is PIS.

Val by himself would train wreck the Marvel team. period

#11 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

No you aren't, if you were you would know that instance of Batman lasting more than a second against Val is PIS.

Val by himself would train wreck the Marvel team. period

calm down buddy. I'm just recognizing PIS for what it is by the standards of the DC Universe

#12 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

Karate Kid solo's

#13 Posted by Geuosup (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

No you aren't, if you were you would know that instance of Batman lasting more than a second against Val is PIS.

Val by himself would train wreck the Marvel team. period

calm down buddy. I'm just recognizing PIS for what it is by the standards of the DC Universe

You're failing to recognize PIS. PIS is inconsistency, Val's feats are consistent. Don't like it? Cry to DC, Val still solos this team in seconds though.

#14 Posted by SUNMAN (7228 posts) - - Show Bio

@Geuosup said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

No you aren't, if you were you would know that instance of Batman lasting more than a second against Val is PIS.

Val by himself would train wreck the Marvel team. period

calm down buddy. I'm just recognizing PIS for what it is by the standards of the DC Universe

You're failing to recognize PIS. PIS is inconsistency, Val's feats are consistent. Don't like it? Cry to DC, Val still solos this team in seconds though.

Plot induced stupidity does not simply constitute consistency or inconsistency.

Obviously if you take all Val's feats and abilities into consideration during this fight team 1 would win as I alluded to in my first post. But since many of his showings go against the physical limitation or standards set most other DC works for a character with his physiology I think it behooves people to recognize this.

#15 Posted by Geuosup (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

@Geuosup said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

@Kerrotvorpoas said:

@SUNMAN said:

no since those days of PIS Karate Kids been brought down to logical levels for his universe. His feats of owning Kryptonian level beings are simply CIS

In other words you know absolutely nothing about the character. First off Geoff Johns has stated that the Pre Crisis Legion history is canon. Second of all any volume you want to use has Val performing feats that put him leagues above street leveler. Post Zero Hour he was kicking a Daxamites ass and even hurt him with punches, 3 Boot Val shattered an 80,000 ton sheet of ice with a punch and slapped around Ultra Boy.

You may want to read up on the characters before posting.

I'm familiar with all runs on the Legion of Superheroes.

This fight could go either way

No you aren't, if you were you would know that instance of Batman lasting more than a second against Val is PIS.

Val by himself would train wreck the Marvel team. period

calm down buddy. I'm just recognizing PIS for what it is by the standards of the DC Universe

You're failing to recognize PIS. PIS is inconsistency, Val's feats are consistent. Don't like it? Cry to DC, Val still solos this team in seconds though.

Plot induced stupidity does not simply constitute consistency or inconsistency.

Obviously if you take all Val's feats and abilities into consideration during this fight team 1 would win as I alluded to in my first post. But since many of his showings go against the physical limitation or standards set most other DC works for a character with his physiology I think it behooves people to recognize this.

That is exactly what plot induced stupidity is. If Batman lifted a bus above his head, that would be PIS. Val is a character who, despite having no superhuman physical stats, can replicate superhuman feats through his mastery of martial arts. There is nothing remotely PIS related about that and it essentially serves as an excuse for people like you who know nothing about the character to attempt to downplay him. 90% of his feats are in the category of smashing meterors or fighting Superman or whatever, that was the level the creator envisioned Val at when he was created. Period.