MCU M'baku vs CW Wintergreen

M'baku

Wintergreen

Rules

• Wintergreen has his sword and armor. Is limited to melee weapons only, does not have guns or grenades
• M'baku has his Jabari Wood armor and staff
• In character
• No prep
• Win by any means
• Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

I don't recall anything OP. He did beat Shado and he avoided her gun fire. His best speed feat is his arrow catch. I figured wintergreen would be faster and more skillful but M'baku is stronger and has the advantage of Jabari wood.

M'Baku destroys him.

Edited comment: Wintergreen wins, just watched Black Panther so know i know who wins.

@subline: Why is losing to Yao Fei bad?

Probably Wintergreen. It's been a while, but I remember Yao Fei being pretty legit, so losing to him isn't that terrible of a feat. Moreover, Wintergreen was a solid match-up for Slade, who had some ridiculously good feats back then. Leaning towards Wintergreen for those reasons.

Interesting fight.

And Wintergreen > Yao Fei, for the record.

They have their obvious advantages, M'Baku's being strength with Billy being the faster one.

Now for their main differences Billy carries a piercing weapon while M'Baku carries a blunt weapon. Billy's weapon allow him a better chance of one shotting compared to M'Baku's club. Though he does have the reach advantage I think Billy could slip through his defenses similarly to how he closed the distance between him and Shado armed with a machine gun in Arrow tie in #29.

Gallery

I was more impressed by M'baku than by Wintergreen, but considering both of them have limited feats and are from different universes, it's kinda hard to justify one or the other

Wintergreen.

M'Baku

Wintergreen was extremely fast. Reacting to arrows moving faster than 300mph at such close range is no joke.

How fast would he have to be in order to accomplish the gif above?

Yao Fie's bow was mentioned to have a draw weight of 150lbs. That's twice as much as real life bows. The speed-draw weight curve is linear, so the speed of the arrow should be somewhere around/over 300mph. The distance between them looks less than 10ft, but lets assume it is 10ft. Wintergreen would have around 1/44th of a second to react to the arrow. For comparison, that's about 1/3rd the speed required to cut a bullet out of air shot from a glock from same distance.

We never really saw a direct comparison between him and Slade's strength, but assuming they are even close, Wintergreen should be stronger than M'baku.

Can't say this

@jayc1324: Slade is stronger than M'baku. Can't say about Wintergreen. Even though he did send Slade sprawling quite far back with a kick.

Wintergreen.

I didn’t find Baku that impressive, but I have only seen the movie once.

I'm talking about this gif which looks more like 2 to 3 feet.

I don't remember feats from base Slade to say he is stronger than M'Baku but that is entirely irrelevant anyway. Slade's strength means nothing unless we see Wintergreen matching it with him in a fight which you said we didn't. So it doesn't matter. No reason to just assume they are close, especially given that Slade wrecked him. They were not equals at all.

@danieldaripper: I am really bad at judging distance, but if its really 2 to 3 feet, then that's a feat on par with bullet timing.

He does. M'baku's best strength feat was tossing a fodder, IIRC. Unless there's something I'm forgetting. Slade has done much better than that.

Slade's strength means nothing unless we see Wintergreen matching it with him in a fight which you said we didn't. So it doesn't matter. No reason to just assume they are close, especially given that Slade wrecked him. They were not equals at all.

That's fair. That's why I said assuming they are close. Whether they are or aren't is up for debate.

Like what

@jayc1324:

For reference here is Billy's bent leg in the frame which gives us a good perspective of the distance.

Wintergreen is more skilled. M'Baku is stronger. I think M'Baku, but this could really go either way.

@danieldaripper: I re-watched the fight, and it does look like they were extremely close.

@subline: But Yao Fei was a really good fighter.

And Billy also lost that fight on purpose.

Why would he have done that?

@the_hajduk: Yao Fei was working for Fyers at that point. Fyers had an escape arranged to extract information from Oliver another way, and later led him into a trap where Billy and Yao Fei fought again but that time Yao Fei won. Then Oliver went to rescue the captured Yao Fei and it turned out that he wasn't really captured and that he'd been helping Fyers under coercion the whole time.

Not a chance. There's no way Fyers planned all of that like some kind of prodigal mastermind. What would be the purpose? Oliver had no information valuable to Fyers besides the location of Yao Fei. You're saying that Fyers planted Yao Fei as some kind of double agent, just so he could make Oliver tell him where Yao Fei was?

Yao Fei rescuing Oliver was legitimate. They escaped but they were tracked down. Yao Fei never actually beat Wintergreen because he chose to flee instead. All he did was throw Wintergreen and then immediately ran away. Wintergreen wasn't knocked out or incapacitated or anything. Their second fight is more true IMO.

Yao Fei was getting very old though. He's also a peaceful man pit against a ruthless assassin. Still, it's a feat of Billy getting the best of one of the top Arrowverse fighters. If that came from physicals, morals, motivation, equipment, or some kind of combination of them all, it's still a great feat no matter what.

@the_hajduk: When do you think Yao Fei was first under Fyers' influence then?

I think during the scene after Yao Fei was captured, when Fyers showed him his captured and tied up daughter and said work for me or I'll kill her right now, I think right around then is when Yao Fei started working for Fyers.

@the_hajduk: You're probably right.

I actually don't see Green Arrow fodderizing Yao Fei, even though I see him fodderizing everybody else from that era. Something about Yao Fei's story and his character just made him seem like the only real deal in skill, until pretty much Ra's.

@the_hajduk: Even current Oliver? I think The Hood would beat him, and Green Arrow would demolish him.

Nope. Yao Fei was the real deal. For some reason he just never seemed to be fighting at his maximum.

Every fight is different and style vs style makes a big part of it. Current Green Arrow vs Yao Fei, I see being largely a contest of skill. Not completely, but largely, and I don't see Yao Fei being curbstomped in skill.

Billy had stylistic and situational advantages over Yao Fei, and even then I still feel like Yao Fei wasn't fighting to his best. Maybe something about his age and the general fact that he'd been living in the wild barely eluding a whole army for months on end while the world thinks he's a traitor, maybe that had to do with it. Also Yao Fei's pacifistic and kind nature paired against the hostile intent of Billy Wintergreen. You just add all these different factors together, throw in a small bit of PIS, and it makes sense.

Wintergreen most likely

I know, but M'Baku is better. I think. I haven't actually even seen Black Panther.

No, Slade can actually beat Oliver. The only reason Oliver won is because he had just hit Slade with the antidote. And that same antidote was knocking the other Mirakuru soldiers unconscious. So it's impressive enough that he was still conscious.

Yeah I hear that theory all the time. It makes sense, even if nothing in the writing ever implied this was the intention. Even if it is true though, I don't see how it contradicts what I've been saying about Yao Fei.

@the_hajduk: Out of curiosity do you think the fact that Yao Fei and Wintergreen (who was believed to be deathstroke at the time) were both referred to as two masters means anything in the scope of the arrowverse?

Yes I agree, Yao Fei is better than the recruits, Speedy, Arsenal, Black Canary, and Diggle.

Probably not. The Arrowverse is full of people who classify as masters.

Wintergreen wrecks.

Billy carves him up, he's way too fast and skilled for M'Baku's brute strength to be an overwhelming factor. I think it would be a lot closr H2H, but with a blade strength probably won't even come into play.

Wintergreen

M'Baku