Darth Andeddu vs. Marka Ragnos

Ragnos. Too little is known about Andeddu, which is sad, to be honest. 

We don't know what Andeddu was like in his prime. That said, when he came back from the dead, he lost to Darth Wyyrlok. Losing to ANY New-Sith is an automatic negative in my eyes.
 
Ragnos, in his prime, was considered to be a very powerful Sith Lord. He was resurrected, but he was in the body of Tavion - who is not a very power Dark Jedi - when he lost to Jaden Korr (who is more powerful than Wyyrlok)
 
Ragnos would / should win.
 
@Silver2467 said:

" Ragnos. Too little is known about Andeddu, which is sad, to be honest.  "

" We don't know what Andeddu was like in his prime. That said, when he came back from the dead, he lost to Darth Wyyrlok. Losing to ANY New-Sith is an automatic negative in my eyes.    

Ragnos, in his prime, was considered to be a very powerful Sith Lord. He was resurrected, but he was in the body of Tavion - who is not a very power Dark Jedi - when he lost to Jaden Korr (who is more powerful than Wyyrlok) "

" @Silver2467:    True. Though I think Nihilus and Palpatine were better at it than Andeddu. Exar Kun as well.   

Perhaps it was overlooked in the eyes of the people that developed Jedi Academy - great game, though. I always say that the Jedi Knight games were the ONLY games that made a Lightsaber feel like a Lightsaber. "

I'd have to give a slight edge to Ragnos in any one-on-one battle. But, only because he's proven a Darkside Force-wielder to be reckoned with. Even after death! Two cases in point? His breaching the time barrier to name Exar Kun his successor as Dark Lord of the Sith (circa 4,000 BBY). Followed by his physically reincarnating (however briefly) during the New Jedi Order era.

Ragnos. Andeddu just doesn't have enough material.

I guess that means this is safe to padlock!

Man, JediX really had a low estimation of Krayt and co., back in ancient CV times.

Andeddu gets creamed here. We know that he learned from the holocrons/texts of the Jedi Exiles (Karness Muur and co.) and either predated or was a contemporary of Ragnos. We don't know exactly when he lived on Korriban, but we do know that he fled from there because of competing Sith who wanted to kill him. In contrast, Ragnos is hailed as being the unrivalled overlord of the Sith for over a century, ushering in a golden age, where he went unopposed until he died of natural causes, meaning during his lifetime he was definitely superior to Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh.

He overall comes off as far more impressive, all things considered. The only ancient Sith who I think could rival or surpass him are Nadd, Kun and Ulic.

For once, I agree with ILS. Ragnos in spirit form still boasted superiority over Naga Sadow who was considered by historians to be the most powerful of the ancient Sith. Moreover, he was still the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith (and thus the most powerful Sith) a thousand years past his prime, when Exar Kun and Ulic battled. While Kun was a few years pre-prime, Ragnos was centuries past-prime. So he scales above Kun as well. Not to mention his superiority over post-DE Luke's Order, which had already faced Exar Kun.

Andeddu's mastery of the Force was exceptional, but it won't grant him a single win here.

@lord_tenebrous Ragnos is on an insane tier, he is above Kun and them some it's ridiculous.

He is above Sadow by who knows how much (but we know Sadow could wrench the heart out of suns and it's actually stated that weaker people couldn't just tell the meditation orb to do it without them exerting their own energies.)

He was alive when child Vitiate mind controlled whole villages and subjugated his whole Moon planet but didn't really bat an eye-lid instead he just respected the boys strength.

I'm thinking he must be at least comparable to forms of Vitiate, I don't think he was on the level of being a disembodied force entity like Valkorion (or Nihilus?) But his power should be insane and he should have all the abilities that come along with that like drain etc.

He could probably beat GM Luke ...

@azureamaterasu: No, because Ragnos isn’t above Kun, and he too, scales vastly below Revan.

We will have to agree to permanently disagree, old boy! Ragnos and Revan undeniably tie for first place in terms of raw Force talent.

@azureamaterasu:

Now I hold Marka Ragnos in extremely high regard. Heck, considering Marka Ragnos’ feats from Jedi Academy - making a scepter that can drain the Force Nexi of entire worlds, as well as a highly eroded form of his spirit killing Tavian, a Dark Sider, “because the corruption was too much for her” I honestly would be willing to make a case for Marka Ragnos being the second most powerful Sith Lord after Emperor Palpatine. I’d be willing to put him above Darth Vader (A Tier 9 Duelist ever since his Jedi days, and 80% of ROTJ Palpatine, who represented the pinnacle of the Dark Side) and above Darth Plaguies.

But I would not put Marka Ragnos on par with Emperor Palpatine, much less suggest that Marka Ragnos is comparable to Grand Master Luke Skywalker. Don’t forget, this is what Luke Skywalker did to his nephew, Darth Caedus, who himself is easily one of the most powerful Force Users in Galactic History. Hurled Darth Caedus around like a rag-doll and pinned him to a chair, all without so much as shifting his gaze, much less using a gesture.

@idrisiangraecus:

Exar Kun scales below Revan?

Are you talking about the Exar Kun who with a single, casual burst of Dark Side Energy broke Jedi Grandmaster Odan Urr physically, mentally, and spiritually? The same Odan Urr who was over a millennium old, and had been a Jedi Scholar since before the Great Hyperspace War?

Who, by the way, is potentially the greatest master of the Wall of Light technique in Galactic History. A technique which utterly failed against Exar Kun.

Oh, and can we also remember that Exar Kun managed to cloak his presence from Odan Urr until he deliberately revealed himself?

Are you talking about the Exar Kun that crushed Vodo Siask-Bass in combat? The same Vodo Siask Bass who enhances his staff to be stronger than any lightsaber?

Are you talking about the Exar Kun who was only repelled by Ood Bnar when the Jedi Master (also over a millennium old, according to the Solari Crystal description in KOTOR II) fully metamorphosised into a tree, allowing him to fully tap into the life energies of the entire planet?

How is Revan > Exar Kun.

Everyone likes to claim that the Shadow of Revan expansion made Revan seem like some sort of God. I highly disagree. How is it an impressive feat to lose to a strike team made by people who are all substantially inferior to you. Some of whom aren’t even Force Sensitive!

Lmao @ "Jaden Korr>Darth Wyyrlok"

Ragnos wins.

@zacharyhampton Okay cool yes. Btw that is a bit unfair on Caedus he was kind of off guard but I won't contest Lukes strength. I would say that there is no way to scale Sidious and Ragnos, and using quotes like 'strongest sith' are too one dimensional they don't account for every character they shouldn't be use as real gauges of power.

Thing is there is tons of proof for Ragnos being superior to canon sidious, I mean that's kind of easy to be honest. I'd say he's probably better than DE Sids and could most likely give Luke a challenge if not one-shot him with something like dark tendrils. I mean Luke has nearly been instakilled before by UnuThul. Take any impressive sorcery feat and you can pretty much assume Ragnos will be able to pull it off with greater magnitude. As for real feats though he empowered Kun from beyond the grave enough to let him telepathically bend the whole Senate to his will and so on. For me he is the #1 Sith. Because I don't count Darth Nihilus and Vitiate as true Sith since they just wanted to drain the galaxy.

@azureamaterasu:

Wait, where did you get the idea that Marka Ragnos empowered Exar Kun from beyond the grave? I mean, yes, Marka Ragnos’ spirit annointed Exar Kun as Dark Lord of the Sith, and Ulic Qel-Droma as his primary apprentice, giving them the mark of Dark Lord of the Sith. But that’s all he did.

Not to mention that strictly within the context of the comic, all of the dialogue implied the spirit was that of Naga Sadow. Given that those were clearly his gauntlets.

Ah, the glory of reference books! Sorry, side tangent.

I mean, we do know that Marka Ragnos was so powerful that Ludo Kreshh thought him as a God, and gloated to Naga Sadow that Marka Ragnos’ spirit would smite him where he stood. Naga Sadow on his part couldn’t wait for Marka Ragnos’ spirit to go away. Which, again, is why I do say Marka Ragnos should be more powerful than any Sith Lord sans Darth Sidious.

But you have to understand that Darth Sidious achieved the pinnacle of the Dark Side by the end of his reign as Galactic Emperor: as seen in his absolute mastery of Force Visions. Force Visions, even when described by the most experienced and powerful Masters of the Force in galactic history, are rare, vague, and erratic. Heck, even Anakin Skywalker rarely received Force Visions, and for him they were quite difficult to decipher.

Yet by the end of his reign of Galactic Emperor, Darth Sidious casually day-dreamed about the future, off-handedly handing Darth Vader a precise schedule for the actions he would take over the next several days. No other Force User has been able to do this - not even Luke Skywalker.

Which is why I will go so far as to say this. Grand Master Luke Skywalker, due to being the grandson of the Force, has more raw power and potency with the Force. But no one has mastered the Force like Darth Sidious. After all, has anyone else been able to cause a breach in the World Between Worlds with pure power alone?

Furthermore, don’t forget that Darth Sidious was able to plunge Grandmaster Yoda himself into a long-standing immersive hallucination all the way from Coruscant, simply using both Korriban/Moraband and Darth Tyranus’ remnant Force Bond as focal points.

Not to mention the fact that despite Darth Tyranus being used as a focal point, the Count clearly wasn’t privy to the details of the vision...

@zacharyhampton: Revan was stated to be equal to Vitiate in the novel. That statement alone is beyond anything Kun has ever done. Fighting a bunch of weak-average Jedi doesn’t stand up to most of the things Revan has done. And that’s basically all Kun has ever done. Fighting the four strongest force users in the galaxy, barring valk and children, is more impressive then anything Kun has done. Cause then he won too. Absorbing Nyriss’ lightning and throwing it back at her with enough power to blow through her force shields and disintegrate her? Beyond anything Kun has done. The only thing Kun is close to Revan in is sabers but he still falls short. Kun is great I love him, but Revan is hyped for a reason. He has the feats.

@noah_ouellette: Actually, there’s a statement that says Malak >> Kun, so using the accolades isn’t even necessary.

@zacharyhampton Those are some very good points

@idrisiangraecus:

HA! And what accolade would that be. And you better not be using Master Zhar’s statement to Revan as, “In all my years I have never seen one who had mastered the initial training so quickly.” I e seen people use this a lot. They conveniently forget that...

1. Master Zhar never saw Exar Kun train.

2. Revan was retraining. It helps if you’ve done everything before!

@noah_ouellette:

Um...Revan was not equal to Emperor Vitiate. Not on the slightest. Revan only got two minor hits on Vitiate.

1. When Revan used his lightsaber to redirect Vitiate’s OWN lightning onto him.

2. When Revan summoned all of his power, he managed to...wait for it...knock Vitiate off of his feet. That’s all.

The novel is also clear that Vitiate didn’t see Revan as anything close to resembling a threat before he was knocked off of his feet. When that happened, Vitiate decided to drop the kiddy gloves and get serious. He blasted Revan with a Force Storm, and when Revan attempted to absorb it, the novel makes a point that it was “infinitely more powerful” than Nyriss’ storm, and that Revan barely survived.

First, T3-M4 had to sacrifice himself distract Vitiate. And then, because Revan was STILL immobile, “Meetra” (how I hate that name) had to throw her lightsaber to halt Vitiate’s incoming coup de grace.

@zacharyhampton: No, it’s an official source that claims Malak has “powers far greater than even those of Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd”.

@azureamaterasu:

All that said though, I definitely understand the high regard you hold Marka Ragnos in, and am glad to see it. So many just right him off as “featless.” In fact, I think some people saw Marka as being more featless than Darth Andeddu????

On that vein, if you truly believe Marka Ragnos > Darth Sidious, I can’t actually say “you’re wrong.” They are clearly comparable. It all just boils down to, which is more impressive. Absolute Mastery of Visions, or Absolute Mastery of Sorcery.

I believe Foresight to be the most difficult to master, which is ultimately what my argument is based off. But it would truly be a battle for the ages to see Darth Sidious and Marka Ragnos square off.

@zacharyhampton: And he lost due to light Revan’s interference.

@azureamaterasu:

Very true, Ragnos is up there. I don't think that Ragnos could beat prime Luke, but he's definitely OP. A Yoda/Sidious/Valkorion tier to be sure.

@zacharyhampton:

In the scans you posted, Odan-Urr ragdolls Kun. On Ossus, Urr > Kun.

@lord_tenebrous: Odan-Urr didn't ragdoll Kun, he tried to sever his Force connection and failed. Kun then one-shot him. Yoda 'ragdolled' Sheev, I guess on Coruscant Yoda > Sheev.

@idrisiangraecus: We both know that quote isn't infallible. Stop pushing it around on other sites when you've straight up conceded it on SI.

@noah_ouellette: The idea of Revan ~ Vitiate is demonstratably false.

Furthermore, Vitiate isn't beyond Kun in the first place.

Exar Kun has Force power demonstrations beyond either of them.

Marka Ragnos is Sidious/Valkorion tier?

What in the ****? He most certainly is not.

Absorbing someone's lightning and throwing it back at them in and of itself isn't an overly impressive feat. It shows he was more powerful than her that he could absorb lightning that disintegrated her, but just FYI, it was her lightning that killed her. Revan just threw it back at her.

Her own power killed her, not Revan's.

@ladykulvax:

Yes, he did. He reached out his hand, and threw Kun backwards. He even says "away!" Comic panels aren't a complete depiction of events, things happen in between them. Otherwise, most lightsaber duels last 3 or 4 strikes. Odan tried to use Force Sever after ragdolling him, and failed because he was too old.

And literally yes, Yoda ragdolling Sidious means he's stronger.

@lord_tenebrous: The comic literally states during the attack that it's sever force.

Better yet, not only does Kun mask his presence successfully until he's literally on-top of him. He telekinetically tears the holocron from Odan's telekinetic grip right afterwards.

Then there is the obvious fact that this is a light side nexus so strong it can mitigate the damage of ten supernova waves which should've completely destroyed the planet.

Off of Ossus, Kun flicks his wrist and Odan dies.

@ladykulvax:

"The comic literally states during the attack that it's sever force." 

No, it states that Odan is in the process of gathering the power required to use it, as he's stretching out his hand, ragdolling Kun while saying "away." So Odan not even using all his power is able to ragdoll Kun.

And, even if he was only trying to sever his connection, he still succeeded in ragdolling him. Failing to sever someone's connection doesn't mean you're less powerful than them, nor does doing it mean you're stronger than them. Joclad Danva was able to sever his own connection to the Force and then reconnect it at will:

"Danva had the peculiar skill of being able to divorce himself from the Force at times. He never used its power in his matches; only his personal skill, which was considerable."  

-- Medstar 1: Battle Surgeons 

Does this mean he's stronger than himself? You can't get around the fact that Odan ragdolled Kun. 

"Better yet, not only does Kun mask his presence successfully until he's literally on-top of him."

Coleman Trebor was able to do this to Dooku: 

"Using his Force stealth powers to sneak up on the former Jedi Master, he pounced on Dooku and brandished his lightsaber for a lethal blow." 

-- The Official Star Wars Fact Files 

And Dooku was in an arena of fighting Jedi, and would be aware, while Odan was in the midst of his library and was unsuspecting.

"He telekinetically tears the holocron from Odan's telekinetic grip right afterwards." 

There's nothing to suggest that Odan had his shields up, and indeed it's unlikely that he did given that he was caught off-guard and then proceeded to ragdoll Kun. 

"Then there is the obvious fact that this is a light side nexus so strong it can mitigate the damage of ten supernova waves which should've completely destroyed the planet."

And? Being on the nexus doesn't automatically mean you have access to all of its power. Ood had to connect with the world to do so. The fact that Ossus is a LS nexus just means Odan would be somewhat amped while Kun was somewhat hindered.

"Off of Ossus, Kun flicks his wrist and Odan dies."

On Ossus, Odan >>> Kun. Off of Ossus, Odan > Kun.

Talk about made up head canon, lmao

And, yet, it was Marka Ragnos who broke the time barrier, one thousand years in Exar Kun's past, to personally appoint the latter as new Dark Lord of the Sith, with Ulic Qel-Droma as his apprentice. Undeniably puts Ragnos ahead of Kun in that department.

Marka Ragnos sweeps, he has really impressive scaling whereas Andeddu lost to pre-prime Wyyrlok

@carycomic I don't think that's him, it's just like a holocron gatekeeper. There is no direct link between Kun and Ragnos however it's clearly obvious that Ragnos would be far ahead of him. Ragnos had his whole life to abuse Sith Rituals that were available to him to allow him to become a Sith Spirit at all.

Kun did a Ritual with no prior knowledge and rushed preparation.

Marka Ragnos murder darth andeddu a fodder

Nope! That was his actual Force ghost coming forward one thousand years into his future.