#1 Posted by nickzambuto (12677 posts) - - Show Bio

The assassin stood, arms crossed confidently over his broad chest as he stifled back a cough from the smoke-saturated room. It was dark, but the man's highly tuned senses had no problem scanning the barren saloon for any possible foul play. He had received a tip to meet a man known only by the name "Adam" at some abandoned bar in the middle of nowhere, and the place seemed like it was ripped straight from the old west. Everything was wooded, with each floorboard having its own distinct squeak and the piano in the corner playing a soft melody. As Deathstroke's would-be employer sat comfortably behind the bar, feet on the counter and a cigar in hand, it would be impossible not to liken him to an old time cowboy.

He spoke, in such a rough bark that the creamy cool tone of the words seemed almost impossible.

"Slade Wilson."

The assassin's ears immediately perked up at the sound of his real name.

"AKA, Deathstroke the Terminator." His more common moniker was spoken with blatantly obvious contempt, and rather than striking a sickly fear into the depth's of the cowboy's heart as it usually does to those unfortunate enough to know it, he seemed nothing if not amused by the name.

"I hear you're pretty good." The cowboy casually puffed his cigar, waiting for Slade's response.

"The best." He said simply. The cowboy chuckled.

"Good, because I don't deal with anyone but." He took one last breath of smoke, and flicked the spent roll off to the side. Standing up, Slade could see the man in all his buckaroo glory, a classic duster coat obscuring most of "Adam's" finer features, but it took the assassin no time at all to notice the revolver tucked neatly to the side.

"Revolver Ocelot." He spoke, and couldn't help but feel a sliver of satisfaction build up at the genuinely surprised look on his benefactor's face.

"Impressive deduction skills, assassin." Ocelot said.

"The 'Adam' was a dead giveaway." Slade smirked. Ocelot was undeterred.

"Let's hope your combat skills are up to par, because I have got a very interesting proposal to make."

.................

"This is Snake. I've infiltrated the manor."

Solid Snake - or David, as he will be known for this mission - adjusted his bow tie and slicked his hair back.

"Gotta say, this tux does bring out the color of my eyes."

"Good job Snake." Hal Emmerich's excited voice rang over the CODEC. "Commencing operation: Party Crasher."

David nodded to himself and surveyed the area. A crowded ballroom populated by some of the wealthiest industrialists and political figures in the country stood before him, the quaint moonlight providing a beautiful window view while the massive chandelier illuminating the massive space allowed patrons to dance and mingle as they pleased. Snake- David did his best to fit in, drawing no attention to himself at the risk of somebody realizing he should not be there.

"Any sight of Wayne?" Otacon's voice chimed in.

"Not yet." Snake whispered.

"Well you've got to hurry up Snake! Have you forgotten there is a spy sneaking around there looking to kidnap him?!" Otacon nearly screamed.

"How could I forget my own mission." The soldier replied sardonically. Otacon sighed.

"Snake, you're not there to kidnap the guy. You're just looking to convince-"

"Extort." Snake interrupted.

"Extort information about "Metal Gear: Wayne" before whoever else is there can do it." The otaku explained.

"Otacon..." Snake growled. "I know that... who are you explaining this to?" Snake turned off his CODEC and sighed. There had been reports that a new Metal Gear prototype was being developed by Wayne Industries, fittingly monickered "Metal Gear: Wayne." Apparently a rival spy - or even several - were at the party at that very moment, looking for information on the powerful weapon, and it was Snake's job to stop that from happening.

David took a minute to think of how he was going to lure Wayne out. He was no doubt at the party - Otacon's information was 100%, not to mention this was his house; where else could he be? The problem was finding him in this massive place. David made a mental checklist of everything he knew about Bruce Wayne.

  1. Rich
  2. Spoiled
  3. Arrogant
  4. Playboy
  5. Dead parents
  6. And dumb as a sack of bricks

Not much to go on. But for a procure-on-sight master, it was all that was needed.

"Looks like I'll have to use my... secret technique." David muttered, and a devilish grin spread across his face.

.................

"Master Bruce! Master Bruce come quickly!"

"What is it Alfred?" Bruce Wayne looked up from his seat at the study, worriedly eyeing the panicked butler.

"Master Bruce! You've been called out!" Alfred heaved from airless lungs.

"I've been... What?" Alfred led the vigilante through the many corridors of his massive mansion, and as they progressed, Bruce began to notice the classical tone had been swapped out for a hip-hop beat, and all of Wayne's guests were gathered in a large circle, watching what must have been an amazing spectacle on the inside. Bruce Wayne shoved his way through the crowd, desperately searching for whatever magnificence was inside. And as he finally reached his destination, Batman, The Dark Knight, Gotham City's Caped Crusader and founding member of the JLA, witnessed a sight more beautiful than any woman, flower, or extraterrestrial planet, he has ever laid witness to.

In a grand display of radiant footwork and grandiose flexibility, two of the guests had engaged in an impromptu break dancing competition. The glittering dexterity of these two men blew anything else Wayne had ever seen off the face of the Earth, with every individual move being a scream of colors and beauty that penetrated every fiber of the vigilante's soul. They seemed to go on for hours, in an endless display of unEarthly determination and prowess, their dance of death a true testament to the will of all mankind, symbolically representing the inner struggle within all of God's creatures. But in the end, only one of them could be the victor.

"Gahh!" Commissioner Gordon had been foolish enough to take Solid Snake up on his offer for a friendly competition. But alas, he had rocked too hard, and his aged ankle snapped from the stress. David was declared the winner, and everyone in the ballroom wept tears of magic and wonder.

"Bingo." David muttered. His ploy had worked. The soldier knew no man could resist his breakdancing charms; Wayne had come running to the head of the crowd just as expected.

However, before David could make contact, a massive explosion ripped through the manor, and a chunk of debris struck Wayne violently, knocking him out cold.

The party immediately erupted into chaos, with guests fleeing for their very lives as Deathstroke the Terminator strolled in.

"Where. Is. Wayne." He demanded. The assassin's eyes locked with David's, there equally hard gaze stalemating. Eventually, the soldier gestured towards the half-dead corpse of Bruce Wayne in response to the question.

"Oh." Slade mumbled. "Well the Russian didn't say anything about taking him in unharmed. So long as we can get the information on Metal Gear." The assassin bent over and took hold of the playboy's corpse, getting ready to haul the objective outside and back into Ocelot's waiting hands, when suddenly a shot rang out. Deathstroke's highly tuned reflexes narrowly avoided the death blow.

"What the hell-!"

"I'm afraid I can't let you take that man." Solid Snake in all his glory had made a miraculous instant transition into his signature sneaking suit, pistol in hand.

The two soldiers stared each other down, and both could instantly tell, only one of them would be leaving this house tonight.

------------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr cliffs below

I was making this up as I went along so it kinda got a bit out of hand. Sorry for the length, reading is not necessary unless you're looking for Solid Snake breakdancing feats. Cliffs follow:

  • Solid Snake in his prime with Metal Gear Solid 4 gear
  • NEW 52 Slade Wilson with standard gear
  • Fight to the DEATH
  • Moral ON
  • Basic knowledge
  • Fight throughout Wayne Manor beginning at 20 feet across in plain sight
  • Bruce Wayne is unconscious and will not interfere
  • Everybody has abandoned the manor besides the two fighters

@nickzambuto as SOLID SNAKE vs @funsiized as DEATHSTROKE.

#2 Edited by Cable_Extreme (8127 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be fun to watch, though Deathstroke has my vote, even before funsiized opened. I guess you can call it a little bias of mine.

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#3 Edited by nickzambuto (12677 posts) - - Show Bio

This will be fun to watch, though Deathstroke has my vote, even before funsiized opened. I guess you can call it a little bias of mine.

If you're that biased than don't vote!

#4 Edited by cooljammy18 (809 posts) - - Show Bio

You better impress me Nick. I swear you better!! ROFL at Snake break dancing btw.

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (12677 posts) - - Show Bio

You better impress me Nick. I swear you better!! ROFL at Snake break dancing btw.

Anything Raiden can do Snake can do better.

#6 Edited by cooljammy18 (809 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@cooljammy18 said:

You better impress me Nick. I swear you better!! ROFL at Snake break dancing btw.

Anything Raiden can do Snake can do better.

Including lifting a multi-megaton robot? Sweeeeettt.

#7 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8127 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

This will be fun to watch, though Deathstroke has my vote, even before funsiized opened. I guess you can call it a little bias of mine.

If you're that biased than don't vote!

Well, it is not a real vote, I am still waiting for that special someone to side for Deathstroke. He could win this debate if he brings up the right scans.

P.S. if that is you, I got lots of them!!

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#8 Edited by MonsterStomp (15296 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Votes are more or less based on how someone debates rather than who'd actually win a fight. If you're biased either way, your vote would just be discounted, lol. I love Deathstroke but I'm voting based on how the debaters argue.

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#9 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8127 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Votes are more or less based on how someone debates rather than who'd actually win a fight. If you're biased either way, your vote would just be discounted, lol. I love Deathstroke but I'm voting based on how the debaters argue.

Yes, I agree. I'm giving you a hard time, sorry lol. I love watching debates, and I jokingly say I am biased. I will vote fairly on the debater.

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#10 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

JUST F*CKING DEBATE ALREADY

#11 Posted by GhostRavage (8257 posts) - - Show Bio

JUST F*CKING DEBATE ALREADY

Truth is yet to be spoke. This.

#12 Posted by nickzambuto (12677 posts) - - Show Bio

@funsiized I can go first, I'd just like your confirmation that you're here.

#13 Posted by Funsiized (3575 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Jokergeist (4935 posts) - - Show Bio

JOKERGEIST HAS ARRIVED!!!..........so what'd I miss?

#15 Posted by DarkRaiden (6423 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Edited by Pr0metheus (4867 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by nickzambuto (12677 posts) - - Show Bio

As powerful as Slade Wilson is, especially in the New 52, I am confident that Solid Snake has the necessary combination of skills and abilities needed to come out the victor. This is not the first time Snake has been outclassed on paper and still won in the end - in fact, David actually specializes at these odds, with an uncanny instinct for battle and superhuman ability to adapt to any situation, heralded as THE master improviser and procure-on-sight expert, and known throughout the black ops world as "The Man Who Makes the Impossible, Possible."

Solid Snake is the number 1 example of the Blood Knight trope. He's a super soldier, just like Slade; except Snake was cultivated and modified since before birth to become the ultimate weapon, with his entire reason for existence revolving fighting. David's genetic structure was manipulated to display an abundance in "soldier genes", those which are valuable to a warrior in any way. Reaction time, strategic thinking, ability to adapt - all these traits are enhanced to super human levels in the legendary hero. Same goes for Deathstroke admittedly, but the areas where Snake is superior, is usually where it counts. Coupled with the fact that he's been trained and bred since birth as one of the world's greatest martial artist, military strategists, and is said to be proficient with every form of weaponry on the planet, and it becomes clear that Solid Snake has the skills necessary to take Deathstroke down.

Strategy-

There are three main areas of expertise that Solid Snake has over Slade:

  1. Sneaking
  2. Guns
  3. Tactics

As the saying goes, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. These might seem like minuscule advantages that don't make a difference, but the major edge Snake has, is that when these three things work in unison, they are almost unbeatable.

Stealth- Snake's forte. Metal Gear is after all, the granddaddy of the stealth genre. Snake has displayed a near inhuman ability to elude detection and seemingly vanish from thin air, using a combination of learned tactics and techniques, and his own innate instinct for survival. He's been described as a ghost on more than one occasion, and I don't mean by canon fodder thugs. The baddies Snake goes against, are genetically enhanced, bonafied super human Genome Soldiers, with their natural senses in particular being stated to be particularly advanced, and their combat skill and training surpassing that of the Green Berets and Delta Force.

Snake alone took on their entire army during Shadow Moses, and eluded them at every turn.

Snake's initial infiltration of Shadow Moses Island, literally getting right inside the main facility in a matter of minutes right under the enemy's nose.

Snake knows how to use air vents to eavesdrop.

Snake disappears the instant a guard shows up; the Darpa Chief doesn't even look in his direction, he keeps talking to where Snake was.

After tailing a Paradise Lost Army member all across a deserted city without being spotted, the soldier takes one last look behind him before entering the hide out - to reveal Old Snake has vanished. David then proceeds to show off his CQC against the welcoming comity.

Guns- Snake's other forte. Like I mentioned, Snake is above all else, a soldier, and has been trained as such. Since birth he has been conditioned by a number of private instructors handpicked by the Patriots themselves who also acted as his foster parents (never for more than a year), and has been a member of every major military organization in America, including the Army, the Green Berets, and the CIA, but most importantly, FOXHOUND, the most elite clandestine black ops agency the U.S. has to offer, so much to the point that it's members are considered the modern day version of ninja. Keep in mind, Solid Snake proved himself the best soldier in the entire agency on his very first mission. He is said to be proficient with every form of military weaponry in the world, and his reflexes in conjunction with his tactical skills have allowed him to perform feats that would make the Punisher blush. Now I know Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but that doesn't make him immune to gunfire. Snake literally shoots bullet timers all the time, and characters who are much faster than Slade have already been defeated by Snake in a gunfight.

A renowned sword wielding mercenary and casual bullet dodger. That describes both Deathstroke, and Olga Gurlukovich, whom Solid Snake defeated in a gunfight using only a tranquilizer pistol. Not only does Snake outshoot a woman who toys with automatic gunfire, but he straight up outraces her gunfire, showing great speed.

OLGA FEATS-

Olga is a supersonic speedster. Here are some of her feats to highlight how impressive it is that Snake defeated her with gunfire.

Olga, disguised as the Cyborg Ninja, disappears in a gust of wind.

Olga speedblitzes a bullet timer (Raiden)

Olga again moves faster than Raiden can react and displays impressive agility.

And the coup de grace - ninja Olga falls from the sky and defends Raiden from a hailstorm of automatic gunfire

Even faster than Olga is Vamp, the muscle reading Romanian knife wizard.

Old Snake successfully "killed" Vamp via gunfire, an impressive accomplishment considering Vamp was not only a Spider-Man level speedster, but could tank a great deal of bullets before falling.

Vamp feats-

Vamp's famous fight (slaughtering) of a Navy SEAL unit, weaving through fully automatic gunfire just by spinning around and deflecting machine gun fire with just a knife, having an entire conversation with Fortune in an instant, and then nearly teleporting out of the room despite the fact that Raiden and Plisken were staring straight at him.

Vamp running on water and straight up a vertical wall.

Vamp dodges a barrage of bullets from Raiden with his eyes closed, and throughout the boss fight displays enough speed to swim like a dolphin through 0 buoyancy water.

So that's two speedsters, one supersonic, the other hyper, that Solid Snake can tag. He should be able to shoot Deathstroke just as easily. Keep in mind the fact that Snake didn't have the opportunity to use stealth against either foe, whereas against Deathstroke, the battle ground easily permits a bit of sleuthing. All things considered, it's pretty much impossible for Slade to avoid a bullet to the face.

Tactics-

And last but not least, probably my most controversial claim: Solid Snake is a better tactician than Deathstroke. Listen, I know Slade is a great strategist. Not as good as he was Pre52... in fact I don't think he has many intelligence feats at all in the new universe... but I digress. Strategy is NOT tactics. Strategy is the ability to sit down and contemplate a full plan. Tactics are something you form in the middle of battle. And that, is what will grant Snake the win. Characters constantly make mention of Snake's unbelievable ability to think on his feet; reasoning the Cyborg Ninja's identity, seeing through Psycho Mantis's illusions, formulating a plan to gain access to Arsenal Gear, tricking a guard into releasing him from jail, figuring out how to disable Vamp's healing factor, shooting steam pipes to blast an opponent, deducing Liquid's ambush, faking his death, posing as a SEAL, outwitting the Patriots AI, the list goes on. Snake is an expert at gleaming an opponent's weaknesses, and knows how to set a trap like a pro.

Using all these skills in conjunction, Deathstroke will never know what hit him. Spoiler: it's a bullet.

@funsiized I am so awesome at replying on time.

#18 Posted by Funsiized (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: What is this, Respond to Funsiized day?! Give me a bit lol.

#19 Edited by Funsiized (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Snake disappears the instant a guard shows up; the Darpa Chief doesn't even look in his direction, he keeps talking to where Snake was.

Err, he moved like 3 feet, and assuming he moved when the camera panned into the Chief, he has about 2-3 seconds. not impressive whatsoever.

After tailing a Paradise Lost Army member all across a deserted city without being spotted, the soldier takes one last look behind him before entering the hide out - to reveal Old Snake has vanished. David then proceeds to show off his CQC against the welcoming comity.

He was walking, it's stealthy yes, but i don't see the great surprise there. The man was obv pretty incompetent, it was bordering on them replicating an old Tom and Jerry skit.

As for the CQC impressive, but non lethal, may i ask why?

Snake's other forte. Like I mentioned, Snake is above all else, a soldier, and has been trained as such. Since birth he has been conditioned by a number of private instructors handpicked by the Patriots themselves who also acted as his foster parents (never for more than a year), and has been a member of every major military organization in America, including the Army, the Green Berets, and the CIA, but most importantly, FOXHOUND, the most elite clandestine black ops agency the U.S. has to offer,

Deathstroke himself, while not starting as Early as snake, was a prodigy at a very young age

At Age 16 he was already a legend.

Here is what he was taught to "Observe his surroundings" that was his instructor demonstrating it.

This was of course BEFORE he got his Enhancements.

so much to the point that it's members are considered the modern day version of ninja.

been there, done that.

Reacts to Ninja whilst talking, fights a group of them on the train, and Reacts to a kunai without even looking.

There he is again fighting Ninjas to great affect, and showing he is no slouch with guns either.

Now I know Deathstroke is a bullet timer, but that doesn't make him immune to gunfire. Snake literally shoots bullet timers all the time, and characters who are much faster than Slade have already been defeated by Snake in a gunfight.

Gee, i would love to disagree, but i can't see the feats you post for Olga and Vamp. Bummer. All i will say is that while bullet dodging does not make you inherently immune to bullets as a whole, it makes you Efficient at reacting on another Level., accuracy counts for something, yes. But if he sees you shoot, you're not hitting him.

Not only does Snake outshoot a woman who toys with automatic gunfire, but he straight up outraces her gunfire, showing great speed.

We see the Bullets path, and the only thing we see of snake in that instance is him ducking behind a crate(?) hes not exactly "Outracing" hes getting behind cover on a fundamental level.

So that's two speedsters, one supersonic, the other hyper, that Solid Snake can tag. He should be able to shoot Deathstroke just as easily. Keep in mind the fact that Snake didn't have the opportunity to use stealth against either foe, whereas against Deathstroke, the battle ground easily permits a bit of sleuthing. All things considered, it's pretty much impossible for Slade to avoid a bullet to the face.

Er, no. Vamp is not hypersonic. It does not take hypersonic speed to Run over water Nor Scale a wall. Quciksilver before his Mach 5 upgrade was capable of doing all of that. he is fast, but not THAT fast. DS Reactions, Enhancements and general awareness grants him ample opportunity to dodge a bullet to the face.

There he reacts to a fast alien simply by feeling the displacement in the wind.

There he Beats on a group of mercenaries dodging pointblank gunfire twice and practically blitzing all of them.

There he takes out soldiers with Zero problem, all of them have guns.

So yes, Snake has a nice Resume of hitting people with bullets. But DS basically makes them job in his presence.

Stealth is a good point, but starting in vision of DS means he would have to be faster than DS can perceive to actually get away. Which i highly doubt. I would need to see snake disappearing from a trained super soldiers sight...while they are looking at him. to even Contemplate your idea. and that's again not factoring DS training.

And last but not least, probably my most controversial claim: Solid Snake is a better tactician than Deathstroke. Listen, I know Slade is a great strategist. Not as good as he was Pre52... in fact I don't think he has many intelligence feats at all in the new universe... but I digress. Strategy is NOT tactics. Strategy is the ability to sit down and contemplate a full plan. Tactics are something you form in the middle of battle. And that, is what will grant Snake the win.

Aww, and you have slipped up, Strategy is not tactics...Per Se, it is but a sub-catagory of Strategy as a whole. To formulate a good strategy you must have a comprehension of Tactics to a massive degree. Look at any skilled Chess player and they will tell you the same. Strategy is simply a combination of Tactics stacked together to overcome the enemy.

Whats to say Slade doesn't already have the Whole house rigged with explosives?(Besides the rules :P)

He has more than often "thought on his feet" Hell, he is regaled for his ability to use his Surroundings.

There, when his lifeline is cut, he manipulates the surroundings to gain the higher ground...Tactics indeed.

Escapes Restraints with...a paper clip?

Even has bombs planted for this kinda situation.

Hell, he has even Made and EMP out of a wrecked submarine, i hope you get my point.

Enough of me countering you, onto me proving why Slade has more than it takes to Bring you down. and Snake isn't putting him down.

Starting with-Snake is not putting DS Down without a head shot, (something that is not going to happen) Why?

A Submarine couldn't put him down, a bullet to the Chest wound even bother him, especially with his Armor. Assuming he gets the wound in the first place.

Next: I daresay Snake is the one who shall get Shot first, i mean, Givin DS Reactions, Equipment and ability. He will shoot first, and there is a very high chance he will, considering he can do this with a paper clip

Yeah..point made.

His skill, awareness, Tactical and Strategic mind, coupled with overall physical superiority means that Slade has all day, and the capability, to deal with Snake, meanwhile Snake has one option, one I'm not sure is within his repertoire: run.

I'm a tad bit sleepy, so sorry for any Grammar/Spelling mistakes.

#20 Edited by Dratini1331 (6925 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: What is this, Respond to Funsiized day?! Give me a bit lol.

Yay~ that's my favorite holiday