CaV: Hawkman (StormShadow_X) vs Nemesis (the_hajduk)

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The_Hajduk

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-Composite versions

-Battle to the death

-No interference

Battlefield-

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stormshadow_x

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deactivated-61699d62a80aa

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I_Cato_Sicarius

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This looks like an interesting one, t4v pls

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@i_cato_sicarius: how is it interesting, humans have outmaneuvered Nemsis...i would to see how one could possibly defend him against composite Hawkman...dude took shots from Black Adam

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I_Cato_Sicarius

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@ancient_0f_days: that's the point. I want to see the arguments as to why Nemesis would win here

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Rac95

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#7  Edited By Rac95

@i_cato_sicarius: Maybe a composite Nemesis has some good feats from the MvC series or other crossover games

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I_Cato_Sicarius

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@rac95: Exactly yeah. That's what I would like to see.

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Rac95

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@i_cato_sicarius: Some crossover feats can be ridiculous, like a Predator reacting to the Flash

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I_Cato_Sicarius

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@rac95: Didn't Nemesis fight the Hulk in one of the trailers? Idr them that much tbh bc I never got to play the MvC games.

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T4V.

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@tvenger said:
@ancient_0f_days said:

@i_cato_sicarius: sounds like a low showing for Hulk tbh

Just wanted to ask you this since you seem like the biggest expert on DC, is Dr. Fate vs Luo Zheng a good CAV match?

No

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@tvenger said:
@professorrespect said:
@tvenger said:
@ancient_0f_days said:

@i_cato_sicarius: sounds like a low showing for Hulk tbh

Just wanted to ask you this since you seem like the biggest expert on DC, is Dr. Fate vs Luo Zheng a good CAV match?

No

Spite in favor of who? PC Fate btw.

I never said it was spite, I just said it wasn't a good CaV

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Ancient_0f_Days

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#20  Edited By Ancient_0f_Days
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AllStarSuperman

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#22  Edited By AllStarSuperman

Why are you guys making a mess out of a CaV thread that hasn’t even started yet? I don’t expect much from Ancient of Days, but damn.

Tag me for votes.

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The_Hajduk

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So I am going to start off by posting some base strength feats for Nemesis. These are all casual feats and do not represent the limits of Nemesis's power at all.

Strength

To start off Nemesis was able to push a city bus on its side about 100 feet just to crush Jill, causing it to flip and land on its wheels. The weight of a large bus like this one is 40,000 lbs (20 ton) and the bus being on its side caused metal to create friction with the ground the entire time. The bus also pushed through multiple cars and barricades in its way like nothing.

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So we have an easy 20 ton feat for base Nemesis and considering the friction I would say he can definitely lift more than that.

Nemesis oneshots a helicopter.

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Nemesis oneshots a whole subway car killing every person inside.

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In destructive capacity Nemesis can achieve building level in just a few minutes. He destroyed most of Jill's apartment building eventually causing a collapse just by chasing her.

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Nemesis destroys a wall at 0:25,

destroys a reinforced door and throws it like a missile at 0:59,

shakes the apartment while destroying things at 1:20,

breaks through a floor of the building causing the building to catch on fire at 1:30,

breaks through another wall at 2:13,

punches the ground and breaks through another floor of the building at 2:20,

then bisects an entire floor of the building using a concrete slab causing the whole floor to collapse at 2:30.

Conclusion

Hawkman would need some building level destruction feats and lifting feats above 20 tons to even confront Nemesis's base form. If Nemesis punches Carter in the face hard enough to make a helicopter explode I don't see Carter tanking it.

Endurance

Even if Hawkman is just as powerful as Nemesis he has nothing to counteract the monster's durability and regeneration.

First of all it is stated in the Biohazard 3 Official Guidebook that Nemesis was built to be immortal, and he will continue to pursue his targets to the ends of the Earth.

(Source) "It has a Tyrant-based body that should be called immortal, however once it's given commands, it won't stop until it carries them out... There are only two courses a person targeted by this monster can take. Continue running to the ends of the earth, or die. And Jill has been chosen as a target---"

In fact all creatures exposed to the T-Virus have powerful regeneration down to the common zombies who have a second life. After you kill a T-Virus zombie it will always regenerate as a more powerful crimson head zombie within a few minutes. The only way to kill even a common zombie is by complete incineration or destruction of the brain.

(Source) "We have new information regarding those "beings". They may appear to be dead but in fact they are able to come back to life. However, there are ways to prevent them from becoming active again.

Currently there are two known methods to cease their resurrection.

  1. INCINERATION
  2. DESTRUCTION OF THE HEAD

If further methods are discovered, they will be notified immediately."

Compared to zombies, The Tyrant is an "evolved life-form" and created to be "the ultimate bio-weapon." Zombies are nothing compared to a Tyrant in terms of strength and regenerative abilities. Nemesis is then stated by the director of the game among many other sources to be an evolved form of Tyrant with regenerative abilities once again reaching a new level.

(Source) Kawamura: The Tyrant was a Bio Organic Weapon made by Umbrella USA, and the Pursuer was made by Umbrella Europe... Then, the European Sixth Laboratory finally succeeded in developing "a Bio Organic Weapon to strengthen Bio Organic Weapons." It was the "Nemesis parasite." Nemesis parasitized a Tyrant and received training and conditioning at the European branch, becoming the Pursuer. The Pursuer greatly exceeded the Tyrant in specifications...

(Source) "The Nemesis-T Type's self-regeneration capability easily far exceeds conventional B.O.W.'s under the influence of Nemesis's secretion."

Basically the gimmick of the whole game is that Nemesis freely pursues you through every level and you cannot put him down no matter what. Nemesis is stated to be completely bullet and explosion-proof and even his coat is bullet and explosion-proof. Jill can literally fire every single bullet and rocket in the whole game at Nemesis and all he will do is occasionally take a knee. Nemesis's stun period is a maximum of 30 seconds which does not count as a KO.

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The Biohazard 3 Official Guidebook confirms that Nemesis's coat is completely bullet and explosion-proof, and that the coat exists as a power limiter so Nemesis can be controlled. His body underneath is even stronger when the coat is removed later in the game.

(Source) "The coat wrapped around its entire body is blastproof and bulletproof and also plays the role of a straitjacket which suppresses emergencies of going out-of-control."

"By the way, its coat comes off in the second form and its restricted tentacles are released and it becomes stronger."

The Bio-Hazard Archives also state repeatedly that Nemesis is bullet and explosion-proof and that his attack tolerance is higher than his coat.

(Source) "...its body was wrapped in a special long coat which is bulletproof and explosion-proof, and also has a function to inhibit if it by any chance goes out of control."

"The condition where the upper half of the body, released from the restraint of the coat, promoted deformation. Since several tentacles achieved abnormal growth in the process which regenerates the damaged body, attack tolerance is higher than the first form."

The only thing shown to be effective against Nemesis is acid specifically designed by Umbrella to destroy BOWs. But homeboy's regeneration was so high that he could continue to fight after losing his whole head and one of his arms to this acid and being completely spammed by grenades. Most of his body is destroyed in this fight as he is dumped into the vat of BOW acid at the end, but he regenerates from all of this in a few minutes for the final boss at the end.

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In the remake Nemesis literally gets turned to liquid in a pool of BOW acid and he STILL regenerates from even this in only a few minutes.

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Conclusion

I am really wondering how Carter is supposed to put this guy down because it takes either an RPG blast or the equivalent in shotgun shells just to make him feel something. When he finally does take damage, he is undeterred by the loss of limbs or even his entire head. He just grows new tentacles to compensate. Even if Hawkman somehow pounds Nemesis into paste, Nemesis can regenerate from that. Additionally Nemesis will continue to hunt for Carter no matter where he goes even to the farthest corners of the planet. Hawkman has no way of permanently defeating his Pursuer.

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The_Hajduk

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@stormshadow_x: I fixed all the timestamps in those videos, let me know if I missed anything.

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Please TAEP

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#28  Edited By stormshadow_x
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Introducing Carter Hall, The Immortal Hawkman

Ktar Deathbringer was once the loyal killer under a being only known as The "Lord Beyond the Void" after years of service to his lord he rebelled against him with the aid of a herald of God known as Shrra to fight back which led to both of their deaths and eventually rebirth time and time again into multiple new lives not limited to Egyptian royalty Prince Khufu of Egypt, Katar Hol a Thanagarian space Cop, and his most famous incarnation of Carter Hall, founding member of the Justice Society Of America and one of Earths most well known protectors through the ages.

Before I get into what Carter bring to the table I want to go over what an composite Hawkman here means, for most DC characters it would stop at being Post Crisis/New 52-Rebirth but for a character as complicated as Carter it goes just a bit deeper than that. You see as mentioned above Carter has had multiple incarnations of himself living and dying again and quite a few of those reincarnations bring their own gear and feats to the table. I'll go over which versions below -

Any other versions of Carter I bring up will more less be supplements to his overall versatility and won't directly be involved in the physical confrontation with Nemesis.

Stats Of The Hawk

I'm a decent fan of Resident Evil but I won't pretend I'm a master of its lore or insanely knowledgeable on the power level of one of its more iconic characters in Nemesis but I'm willing to bet Carter has what it takes to keep up off stats alone and Base Nemesis won't be enough to keep up.

Firstly I'll touch on durability to match my opponent starting with Nemesis's strength feats. As for the feats shown so far I'm not confident a base Nemesis has what it takes to Kill or KO with blunt force alone seeing as while he was Katar Hol ( The Cop) Hawkman was able to survive re-entry speeds from orbit and stay conscious. As well as shrugging off similar levels of power Nemesis displayed in his first interaction with Jill such as casually fighting through walls ( 1, 2). As for Carters on inherent strength again I'm not the most knowledgeable on Nemesis but I'm willing to bet he's never had to fight someone as inherently as powerful as Hawkman since he's usually surrounded by peak humans at best.

As far as lifting/pulling in combination with his gravity defying Nth Metal and own Brute strength he was able to momentarily guide the trajectory of a crashing airplane. Of course he did fail but he was able to guide it in such a way that they didn't suffer much in the way of casualties. When it comes to striking again from what I've seen he's superior to at the very least base Nemesis being able to rupture the ground below for an AOE attack ( Yes this was a dream but it falls in line with his usual feats and I'm more then willing to back that up) or casually crashing through a Thanagarian spacecraft with just his body alone. Finally the argument of speed is something I'm sure Carter has the advantage in due to Nemesis seemingly being a bit of a walking brick who either is to slow to dodge or just chooses not to do it. Carter is already a legit bullet timer such as blocking multiple bullets from up close from a submachine gun though two did get by they didn't cause any real damage as well as his flight speed being faster than anything Nemesis probably has faced being even weaker Thanagarians are capable of divebombing 500 mph and Hawkman who is seemingly superior to many members of the Thanagarian race proven when a ship that was already getting past the clouds in a matter of seconds from the ground was still not fast enough to escape carter who was on the ground and was no where near the launch site being in the middle of town.

Gear Of The Hawk

Again going back to my limited knowledge of Nemesis his only real weapon outside of himself is a rocket launcher which we'll see if you plan on arguing at all. Carter on the other head especially at his peak mixed with alternate incarnations has quite the arsenal all of which will be useful in combating Nemesis.

First things first, lets start off with Katar Hol's(Gladiator) Nth metal Armor and a quick explanation of it -

No Caption Provided

In other words its living armor that's metal can be crafted into a variety of melee weaponry and gives the used an innate healing factor. Overall capabilities include -

  • Can create weapons made of Nth metal made as seen above
  • Protecting the user from "really" fatal blows such as a bullet to the neck so something that wouldn't usually instantly be an instant kill.
  • Heals the wearer in the midst of combat, though admittedly truly severe wounds like the lost of limbs will more than likely need rest and be healed outside of combat.
  • "Full Combat Mode" which allowed a street level Katar Hol (Gladiator) form to knock blockbuster high into the sky and KO him. some ho previously over powered him physically.

Secondly Katar Hol's (Cop) gear isn't as versatile but he makes up for it in quantity.

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This version of Katar is very similar to your real soldier carrying a multitude of gear such as a fire arm and grenades but of course he's an alien so their a bit better than your average earth weapon.

Suffice to say that Carter will be able to hurt Nemesis with his gear alone and even his best forms still won't be immune to any of Carters weaponary.

Skill Of The Hawk

This is undoubtedly the one place Carter will hold the advantage regardless of what form Nemesis finds himself in, He's certainly smarter than your average monster but he's still very limited in his reasoning and tactical capability and relies on fully overpowering his opponents something he'll never be able to fully due against someone superior to any of the human's he's use to fighting.

Amongst the superhero community Carter's inherent combative skill is put in the same league as Black Canary and Cassandra Cain two world class fighters and both top tier in the verse so much so all three were chosen to be combat instructors for the younger generation of heroes. -

Carter is a great combatant with literally thousands of life times of experience due to the nature of his reincarnation and official DC Databooks claiming he's a master with almost every weapon from Ancient Egypt to the Modern day which pairs well with the Nth metal armors ability to create weapons for him on a whim. He's skilled enough to fight thousands of gordanians and walk away the victor with artificial wounds at best.

Carter simply put is a great warrior with years of experience and his career as a superhero means Nemesis isn't bringing anything exactly new to the table as he's seemingly just another Brick with an admittedly great healing factor. Even if h2h skills weren't relevant Nemesis still is a one track minded beast who never has had to adapt to a foe not only smarter but in his physical league.

Opening Thoughts

I didn't really want to get into counters in my first post, it's just not my preferred style but from I've been shown of nemesis the only threat he could pose is his healing factor which please @the_hajduk correct if I'm wrong can be overwhelmed by extreme force as we've seen in his fights with Jill which I'm willing to argue Carter can more than replicate with his Physical capabilities, gear, and superior skill and overall intellect .

Looking forward to a good CaV.

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Tvenger

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TAEP.

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The_Hajduk

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@stormshadow_x: Bruh I had my whole argument typed out and clicked "Reply" to tag you, and it deleted my whole post. Thank god for ctrl + Z. That is undo for any people who frequently lose their posts.

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The_Hajduk

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#33  Edited By The_Hajduk

After reading your post I am now confident that base Nemesis would have the stats to match Hawkman's power, and any of his powerful transformations would then secure the kill.

Strength vs Strength

From what I am seeing, they are both about house level with one shot, and Nemesis has far more lifting feats. Nemesis also seems to be more durable as I will explain now.

I'm not confident a base Nemesis has what it takes to Kill or KO with blunt force alone seeing as while he was Katar Hol ( The Cop) Hawkman was able to survive re-entry speeds from orbit and stay conscious.

Hawkman stayed conscious enough to say a few words but he was incapacitated.

Nemesis has the same feat in his testing stage (so weaker than first form Nemesis) when he became violent and was blown out of a skyscraper by multiple rockets. Remember that falling from orbit is the same as terminal velocity and Nemesis was also propelled by multiple rockets. It is stated that the impact is "equal to a meteor falling from the sky." It is stated that Nemesis tanked the rockets and the fall was only enough to incapacitate him.

In fact Tyrants weaker than Nemesis have withstood these types of drops unscathed.

In both games Nemesis is dropped from the top of this huge clocktower in the clouds which is the tallest building in Raccoon City. In the original game he is only in his base form and he still gets right back up to chase Jill.

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Nemesis can replicate all of Hawkman's durability feats and surpass them.

When it comes to striking again from what I've seen he's superior to at the very least base Nemesis being able to rupture the ground below for an AOE attack

Hawkman's ground rupture feat that you posted is impressive, but not more impressive than oneshotting a helicopter or oneshotting a train car which I mentioned in my first post, especially the train car feat. Nemesis destroyed about 60 feet of stainless steel which withstands 30-40 tons per square inch before bending. This feat can easily be calculated to 100 tons tier, while Hawkman destroyed mere stone.

As well as shrugging off similar levels of power Nemesis displayed in his first interaction with Jill such as casually fighting through walls ( 1, 2).

Well Nemesis ended up destroying Jill's whole apartment building. It's a bit different from Hawkman just breaking one wall on two separate occasions. Nemesis has better feats of destructive capacity.

As far as lifting/pulling in combination with his gravity defying Nth Metal and own Brute strength he was able to momentarily guide the trajectory of a crashing airplane. Of course he did fail but he was able to guide it in such a way that they didn't suffer much in the way of casualties.

Now this is a good feat, but I think it was mostly the power of Hawkman using the anti gravity Nth metal. He isn't grunting or exerting himself so he doesn't even seem to be pulling extremely hard, just trying very hard to steer.

Speed vs Speed

This might blow your mind but Nemesis isn't slow. He is actually faster than Hawkman.

Nemesis is casually FTE over large distances.

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Tyrants are not slow, they are just stupid and don't dodge attacks. Nemesis is not stupid which I will explain later, he actually uses his speed very well and dodges whenever an attack is actually a threat to him.

Thanagarians are capable of divebombing 500 mph and Hawkman who is seemingly superior to many members of the Thanagarian race

He better be a lot faster than 500 MPH because Tyrants have a history of smacking rockets right out of the air. All of these rockets are faster than 500 MPH so if Hawkman tries to divebomb Nemesis like this, he is just going to get slapped.

The standard RPG round achieves 660 MPH.

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500 MPH is nothing to Nemesis but Thanagarians can only achieve that speed in a dive bomb according to your scans.

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Scaling from Mr. X who is confirmed to be weaker than Nemesis, we can further wank a Tyrant's reflexes to hypersonic speeds. A tank shell right out of the barrel achieves 1,670 meters per second which is mach 5.

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Carter is already a legit bullet timer such as blocking multiple bullets from up close from a submachine gun though two did get by they didn't cause any real damage

This is impressive but Mr. X has done the same thing in his base form, which Nemesis blitzed and oneshotted. In case you think he was just aim blocking, here you can see that he does react to bullets clearly.

Skill vs Skill

(Source) A parasitic organism created artificially through genetic engineering.

That was the true nature of Nemesis.

Standalone, it is unable to do anything, it is an organism specializing only in intelligence. However, it controls intelligence by parasitizing the brains of other organisms and can demonstrate advanced combat efficiency.

Remember what Nemesis is. He's not a zombie or a random aberration, he was purposefully designed as a living weapon that can adapt to situations and complete any mission. Nemesis is merely a Tyrant's body infected with the Nemesis parasite, which is an intelligent organism that adapts to any situation and will transform Nemesis's body in response to damage.

(Source) it can be grasped that the tentacles released from their restraint became enlarged and increased its aggressiveness, and in addition, the enlargement of the Nemesis' body, which could erode the central nervous system and brain stem from the medulla oblongata, can be seen as it trying to adapt to the critical situation.

The Pursuer has three types from the first form to the third form, but it's not a transmutative metamorphosis as an evolutionary process like "G" in "BIO2", its transformations are merely absolutely influenced by damage.

It is stated that Nemesis actually has an enhanced thinking capacity, and his intelligence is outstanding. He can master any weapon easily, and he had to go through extensive Umbrella training in order to become the Pursuer. When he was a human, he was a champion boxer and he still uses those skills as Nemesis. And he has the combat data of all previous Tyrants, just in case you thought Carter's past lives gave him an edge.

(Source) The "Nemesis-T Type" is a new B.O.W. model completed by implanting Nemesis into a mass-produced type Tyrant, and has outstanding intelligence to trust-worthily carry out commands. Moreover, it also excels in self-judgement ability due to enhancement of thinking capacity, and also masters weapons which require complicated operation without difficulty.

<-The Nemesis-T Type is superior in performance as a combat machine and masters every weapon. Its shooting is so accurate as to shoot down a helicopter flying at high speed with one rocker launcher.

(Source) Nemesis parasitized a Tyrant and received training and conditioning at the European branch, becoming the Pursuer.

According to an excerpt from The Talos Project discussing the theory and evolution of Tyrant, Tyrant was designed to surpass the combat prowess of the best trained soldiers, and it can successfully deter one military division by itself which is defined as consisting of 10,000 to 25,000 troops. This is a lot more than the few thousand guys that Hawkman fought. But this was not good enough and so Umbrella continued to enhance Tyrant's field maneuvers and versatility in various ways. The end result they are aiming for is "the ultimate all-in-one combat package" and that is Nemesis.

(Source) The Tyrant boasts a combat prowess and survivability that far surpasses that of even the best-trained combat troops. However, it is still only theoretically capable of successfully deterring roughly one military division.

When facing AFVs or military-grade helicopters, its kill ratio begins to falter.

By arming the Tyrant with specialized combat firepower and armor, it will become more fit for the variety of situations it is likely to face in the field.

In the past, the ideal has been to leave the Tyrant unhindered by additional equipment so that it can maximize its two strong points - motor performance and response reflexes.

However, the use of enhanced armor modules, internal reinforcement implants, long distance homing weaponry, etc. could preserve the natural abilities of the Tyrant while maximizing its options in field maneuvers.

The potential for this enhancement is fast becoming a reality. When complete, it could make the Tyrant the ultimate all-in-one combat package.

Furthermore it is implied that Nemesis could become fully self aware and rebel against humanity, where he would apparently be a threat to all of mankind.

(Source) In addition, an interesting report was made about a "Nemesis-T Type" test subject in which this was transplanted into the latest Tyrant. In this case, it gained a sense of self during the Nemesis culture process and attempted to escape from the facility with others. That shows that the test subject's intelligence drastically improved, and suggests a risk that a B.O.W. could become a new intelligent organism and rebel against humanity.

At that time, can mankind survive---?

Do you still think Nemesis is stupid and unskilled? In some ways Nemesis is actually far more efficient than the skilled peak humans in the series. Nemesis was able to track and ambush a trained S.T.A.R.S. officer 50 times across all of Raccoon City. Even when she knew he was coming and was prepared, he would still find new ways to attack her from above, from below, to anticipate where she would go and wait, or to lure her into a trap. Nemesis would adapt his tactics every time they fought, and this is against the most intelligent protagonist in RE.

Show me Hawkman outsmarting someone as skilled as Jill over and over again.

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One common misconception I see all the time is that Nemesis only fights peak humans. This is not true, Nemesis actually fought every monster in the game and killed them all. Nemesis oneshotted 5 Tyrants in a row and punched William Birkin's head off. This is the only time we saw Nemesis's true power pushed to the limits, and he proved his fighting skills as well.

Basically Nemesis fights William Birkin all day and the two of them tear each other to ribbons repeatedly, but they just keep regenerating and becoming even stronger every time. I will go over the most important feats but I highly recommend you watch the entire fight so you get an idea of how much damage Nemesis can really take.

Nemesis vs William Birkin - The True power of Tyrants

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(Skill) 1:10 First form Nemesis easily defeats G1 William Birkin using his boxing and rocket launcher

(Regen) 3:00 G2 Birkin effortlessly catches Nemesis's punch and eviscerates Nemesis with his giant claw, which barely slows Nemesis down

(Skill) 4:55 Nemesis defeats G2 Birkin who is physically superior, using boxing and his tentacles

7:20 Second form Nemesis battles G3 Birkin but they are interrupted when the building sized Grave Digger eats them both. They literally just keep battling inside of the Grave Digger's body until they erupt out. Grave Digger's entire skin is bulletproof and it can casually burrow through the earth like air making it quite strong.

(Speed) 8:44 Second form Nemesis and G3 Birkin both beat the building sized Grave Digger into paste, and then start fighting again with so much power they create a tornado (meaning Birkin and Nemesis were fighting at supersonic speeds)

(Strength) 9:15 and 9:55 Their battle completely annihilates the body of the Grave Digger as a side effect and cuts its body into a million pieces.

(Strength) 15:10 Basically the two of them have become so powerful that they waste every type of BOW in Raccoon City including multiple building sized Grave Diggers just as a side effect of their battle.

19:50 This is the best friggin part. Nemesis completely punches off the head of G4 Birkin, then without missing a beat blitzes and oneshots 5 different Tyrants. One punch from Nemesis caused Mr. X to transform into Super Tyrant, who is fresh, bigger than Nemesis, and ambushes Nemesis who had been fighting all day, but Nemesis defeats him too using boxing making him the undisputed BOW champion.

Think about this. Nemesis in only his first form defeated William Birkin in his first and second forms. Nemesis in his second form defeated Birkin in his third form. And it took fourth form Birkin going up against second form Nemesis to actually get a win, only after a closely competitive fight. Nemesis furthermore defeated Super Tyrant.

Nemesis's skills are what allow him to compete with BOWs who are an entire form ahead of him, basically an entire evolutionary process ahead of him. Nemesis has a phenomenal record when it comes to beating enemies more powerful than he is, and he never even used his own third and fourth forms.

I have proven that Nemesis can reach building level strength, supersonic fighting speed, and his skills as a combat machine are nothing short of deadly. This will be a decent battle but Nemesis is going to overwhelm Hawkman.

I've proven that Nemesis's base stats are superior and my next post will go into his overpowered fourth form, infection hax, tentacles, and every other reason this fight is hopeless for Carter Hall.

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#34  Edited By stormshadow_x

@the_hajduk: How many post as a whole are you trying to do? I usually try to cap it at 3 with 1 opener and 2 counters. Good post btw

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@the_hajduk: How many post as a whole are you trying to do? I usually try to cap it at 3 with 1 opener and 2 counters. Good post btw

Yeah about 3.

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BRUH

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Bruh, done in one day pretty much.

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Bump

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#39  Edited By stormshadow_x

@the_hajduk: My B. Still working on it. Will either be done really late today or tommorow.

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@the_hajduk: My B. Still working on it. Will either be done really late today or tommorow.

That's good, I was just bumping so more people could read it.

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#41  Edited By stormshadow_x

@the_hajduk

"Stand down monster or be put down"

Round 1: Counters against The Nemesis

Strength Counters

From what I am seeing, they are both about house level with one shot, and Nemesis has far more lifting feats. Nemesis also seems to be more durable as I will explain now.

Lifting feats are very situational. Having more is impressive sure, but it's not nearly as crucial as striking unless Carter plans to throw away his primary fighting style of weaponry in favor of attempting to wrestle a creature he knows nothing about which is unlikely.. Perhaps if Nemesis was able to get a hold of Carter but that's not likely due to his wings.

Hawkman stayed conscious enough to say a few words but he was incapacitated.

Not at all true. The following Page we see he's fine and still being tortured by the voices that made him feel the need to crash in the first place. He doesn't even have any real damage to speak of.

Nemesis has the same feat in his testing stage (so weaker than first form Nemesis) when he became violent and was blown out of a skyscraper by multiple rockets. Remember that falling from orbit is the same as terminal velocity and Nemesis was also propelled by multiple rockets. It is stated that the impact is "equal to a meteor falling from the sky." It is stated that Nemesis tanked the rockets and the fall was only enough to incapacitate him.

An Hyperbole is just that, visually falling from a sky scraper is no where near as impressive as falling from the stratosphere. The comparison is night and day. One is falling from a tall building the other is falling to the point where you can see the earth itself almost in it's entirety.

In fact Tyrants weaker than Nemesis have withstood these types of drops unscathed.

In both games Nemesis is dropped from the top of this huge clocktower in the clouds which is the tallest building in Raccoon City. In the original game he is only in his base form and he still gets right back up to chase Jill.

I still fail to see how either of these match the speed and height required for an object to burn. It's a good feat but inferior never the less by a good margin.

Nemesis can replicate all of Hawkman's durability feats and surpass them.

Which has yet to be proven.

Hawkman's ground rupture feat that you posted is impressive, but not more impressive than oneshotting a helicopter or oneshotting a train car which I mentioned in my first post, especially the train car feat. Nemesis destroyed about 60 feet of stainless steel which withstands 30-40 tons per square inch before bending. This feat can easily be calculated to 100 tons tier, while Hawkman destroyed mere stone.

Neither of these feats would be considered or take 100 tons of force especially as in the helicopter feat he clearly didn't one shot it at all and just attack the rotor causing it to crash and explode and we know nothing about how he destroyed the train car, he could of used his flamethrower or lets say he did use it brute strength Which isn't likely as he's failed the one shot peak humans before. At best this was Nemesis throwing his body weight into the train, a tactic that isn't very smart in a fight.

If I had to guess the reason it seem nemesis normal blows aren't nearly as impressive as his swing his weight around full body style which is fine against humans but not someone who can match his force without the need to run and zone.

A non holding back Carter is capable of doing this casually.

He hit the ground with enough force to toss the giant wooden creatures around like paper ( and destroy them as well as make a sizeable crater in the ground. Looking at the point at which he struck the ground and it's size based around him this feat out classes any striking feat shown for Nemesis so far. Even in the following page the surrounding area and landscape has completely changed .

Well Nemesis ended up destroying Jill's whole apartment building. It's a bit different from Hawkman just breaking one wall on two separate occasions. Nemesis has better feats of destructive capacity.

Not at all. Nemesis didn't destroy Jill's entire apartment in one blow. If anything my feat above proved Carter could casually if he wanted to and usually wasn't sticking to his no kill mentality which he doesn't have here. Jill apartment building at best was destroyed by multiple blows around the building, not at all one go like you're insinuating.

Now this is a good feat, but I think it was mostly the power of Hawkman using the anti gravity Nth metal. He isn't grunting or exerting himself so he doesn't even seem to be pulling extremely hard, just trying very hard to steer.

I can agree, I'm not trying to say carter can physically lift more than Nemesis as I think as a whole its irrelevant at worst and situational at best. Just that Nemesis isn't out of his ball park.

Speed Counters

This might blow your mind but Nemesis isn't slow. He is actually faster than Hawkman.

I'm willing to see where this goes.

Nemesis is casually FTE over large distances.

No Caption Provided

Tyrants are not slow, they are just stupid and don't dodge attacks. Nemesis is not stupid which I will explain later, he actually uses his speed very well and dodges whenever an attack is actually a threat to him.

This is a nice short burst of speed... but if he can really use it that reliably why does he have such a hard time catching Jill throughout the game. You can't really blame it on plot armor as even on the fodder he does kill he never really seem to use his speed in this way. On top of all that this is a travel speed feat which doesn't equal combat speed.

He better be a lot faster than 500 MPH because Tyrants have a history of smacking rockets right out of the air. All of these rockets are faster than 500 MPH so if Hawkman tries to divebomb Nemesis like this, he is just going to get slapped.

Yeah Nemesis is defiantly good at smacking those away, except when he seemingly isn't , sure he did catch the missile before this while he was surprised but I think this kind of plays up to the fact that Nemesis just isn't consistent or really good with his speed. If he was he wouldn't be caused as much trouble as the human protagonist often give him. This same shot was enough to momentarily incapacitate him as well which isn't a nice look when carters casual blows are far more powerful.

500 MPH is nothing to Nemesis but Thanagarians can only achieve that speed in a dive bomb according to your scans.

I also gave a superior speed feat in the same post and already clarified Hawkman through all of his incarnations is clearly superior to the norm of the Thanagarian race. I also didn't mean to imply carter attempt a dive bomb, just giving a minimum of the speeds weak members of his species can reach.

This is impressive but Mr. X has done the same thing in his base form, which Nemesis blitzed and oneshotted. In case you think he was just aim blocking, here you can see that he does react to bullets clearly.

While I'm not a fan of nitpicking I don't exactly consider this that. Carter's bullet timing feat was point blank and he swiped multiple bullets out of the air in one swift motion. Not only is the Tyrant here a further away with more than enough time to put his guard up. Most street levels could at the very least move or guard from bullets that far and no amount of blocking with his giant arm is as impressive and swiping it out of the air from a closer range.

Skill Counters

It is stated that Nemesis actually has an enhanced thinking capacity, and his intelligence is outstanding. He can master any weapon easily, and he had to go through extensive Umbrella training in order to become the Pursuer. When he was a human, he was a champion boxer and he still uses those skills as Nemesis. And he has the combat data of all previous Tyrants, just in case you thought Carter's past lives gave him an edge.

I still believe they do, throughs the tens of thousands of lifetimes carters fought villains and heroes of all sorts. I'd argue his incarnation as just Carter Hall is more skilled than anything displayed from Nemesis who still has been out maneuvered and outsmarted by peak soldiers, now to the credit of the resident evil cast they are exceptionally impressive in their own right but nothing compared to Carter on the physical side and as far as skill they still pale, yet they always find a way to beat Nemesis and other creatures of his ilk. Is Nemesis smarter than your average monster? Yes but in the same way a Dog is smarter than a squirrel. He clearly rarely uses his speed effectively, numerous times a peak human has escaped him, and from visual feats he fights like a brawler whose use to being the biggest in the room and rarely has been challenged on that front and when he is it's against skill less bricks.

According to an excerpt from The Talos Project discussing the theory and evolution of Tyrant, Tyrant was designed to surpass the combat prowess of the best trained soldiers, and it can successfully deter one military division by itself which is defined as consisting of 10,000 to 25,000 troops. This is a lot more than the few thousand guys that Hawkman fought. But this was not good enough and so Umbrella continued to enhance Tyrant's field maneuvers and versatility in various ways. The end result they are aiming for is "the ultimate all-in-one combat package" and that is Nemesis.

And it's never taken this many to beat him or escape him. Carlos and Jill together clearly aren't equals to 25,000 soldiers yet they still matched Nemesis at every turn. The Gordanians at the very least are a vastly superior race in both technology and stats compared to that of Humans and yet Carter still went through them without a scratch, something Nemesis can't even do with a 1 or 2 humans with limited weaponry 9/10 times.

Furthermore it is implied that Nemesis could become fully self aware and rebel against humanity, where he would apparently be a threat to all of mankind.

That's nice but this isn't about what ifs, the Nemesis in this debate didn't even make it that far and the potential to do something and the hype of being a threat to all mankind is only impressive in concept. I also feel it's a bit of an exaggeration seeing as if they really want him dead they could just as easily drop the same level of explosive power as they did when they blew up raccoon city, not saying Hawkman would survive either but just that Nemesis is far from that hard to kill.

Do you still think Nemesis is stupid and unskilled? In some ways Nemesis is actually far more efficient than the skilled peak humans in the series. Nemesis was able to track and ambush a trained S.T.A.R.S. officer 50 times across all of Raccoon City.

Not stupid but not the most complex thinker, frankly neither is Carter. their both very direct individual's but Carter is more willing to mix things up in the same fight than lose and adapt next time which is what's necessary in this scenario.

Even when she knew he was coming and was prepared, he would still find new ways to attack her from above, from below, to anticipate where she would go and wait, or to lure her into a trap. Nemesis would adapt his tactics every time they fought, and this is against the most intelligent protagonist in RE.

Something he won't have here. This battle in a 1v1 with neither character most likely running away and its to the death and as I've shown Carter is the more skilled warrior in a direct battle. Nemesis best feats of skill that you've shown are

  • A. Against peak humans who have still given him trouble but lack the ability to physically compete with him
  • B. A somewhat equal character with monstrous stats but also lacks really any combative skill, you yourself make it clear one of Nemesis's advantages against Birkin was actually knowing how to fight with some semblance in Skill.

Carter is the best of both worlds having the physicals to keep up, better close quarters skill, and easier ways to hurt Nemesis with his gear.

Show me Hawkman outsmarting someone as skilled as Jill over and over again.

I'd ask you show why outsmarting Jill is so impressive especially when outsmarting isn't the same as Adapting from previous failed attempts a luxury Nemesis won't have here.

1:10 First form Nemesis easily defeats G1 William Birkin using his boxing and rocket launcher

Nice but like I said beating someone like Birkin with skill isn't impressive when as far as I know he was a Lab Jockey with no experience in h2h and was only a threat the nemesis and RE Protagonist because of his stats. I'd also add he doesn't seem to remember his boxing skills until he's already punching away and it's not something he always has.

(Regen) 3:00 G2 Birkin effortlessly catches Nemesis's punch and eviscerates Nemesis with his giant claw, which barely slows Nemesis down

Good feat but Carter will be going for the head and will press his superior striking with bladed weapons and skill.

(Skill) 4:55 Nemesis defeats G2 Birkin who is physically superior, using boxing and his tentacles

Again it's nice and all but he's just beating up someone with no real fighting style and resorts to over powering opponents.

7:20 Second form Nemesis battles G3 Birkin but they are interrupted when the building sized Grave Digger eats them both. They literally just keep battling inside of the Grave Digger's body until they erupt out. Grave Digger's entire skin is bulletproof and it can casually burrow through the earth like air making it quite strong.

A good and frankly very cool but what's to say the creature is as strong on the inside as the outside, This goes for quite a few creatures not that it matters since the next feat you show the duo being able to casually hurt it but it's nothing Carter couldn't replicate or take hits from.

(Speed) 8:44 Second form Nemesis and G3 Birkin both beat the building sized Grave Digger into paste, and then start fighting again with so much power they create a tornado (meaning Birkin and Nemesis were fighting at supersonic speeds)

This is a massive stretch, it's not really clear what caused the tornado but at best it was bot of their combined blows ( Even then it seems massively out of the question for them to be doing that if we look at any of their other feats and is incalculable when compared to their other feats) and if they were truly fighting at such speeds the bald executive would be able to see them in action.(9:42)

19:50 This is the best friggin part. Nemesis completely punches off the head of G4 Birkin, then without missing a beat blitzes and oneshots 5 different Tyrants. One punch from Nemesis caused Mr. X to transform into Super Tyrant, who is fresh, bigger than Nemesis, and ambushes Nemesis who had been fighting all day, but Nemesis defeats him too using boxing making him the undisputed BOW champion.

If I'm understanding the video right he was only able to do so because of the Tyrants holding him down and birkin's form having a very clear weak spot with a fully open mouth. The video also makes it says that they were all working together at that point and they had no reason to expect Nemesis to attack them. It seemed more like a surprise attack that while impressive wouldn't have played out the same if they were fully engaged in fighting him.

Think about this. Nemesis in only his first form defeated William Birkin in his first and second forms. Nemesis in his second form defeated Birkin in his third form. And it took fourth form Birkin going up against second form Nemesis to actually get a win, only after a closely competitive fight. Nemesis furthermore defeated Super Tyrant.

All of which is impressive but again I stand by Birkin doesn't have anywhere near Carters Skill and the Super Tyrants were practically surprised attacked and he only beat one of them once it evolved.

Nemesis's skills are what allow him to compete with BOWs who are an entire form ahead of him, basically an entire evolutionary process ahead of him. Nemesis has a phenomenal record when it comes to beating enemies more powerful than he is, and he never even used his own third and fourth forms.

Which is Fine if carter was just another Big Lug but he isn't both Birkin and the X's are impressive physically but if this proves anything it shows that they most win due to their sheer power and as soon as they face something in their league they aren't as impressive. Carter can replicate that.

I have proven that Nemesis can reach building level strength, supersonic fighting speed, and his skills as a combat machine are nothing short of deadly. This will be a decent battle but Nemesis is going to overwhelm Hawkman.

With Multiple hits sure, while Carter casually can do that with one and the super sonic fighting speeds is debatable when comparing to the trouble he's had catching human characters like Jill. His skill doesn't have much to gauge it off of save for beating powerful but monsters with a lack of any skill.

I've proven that Nemesis's base stats are superior and my next post will go into his overpowered fourth form, infection hax, tentacles, and every other reason this fight is hopeless for Carter Hall.

I can only hope but as it stands Carter has this in the bag based off Base Nemesis.

Pressing the Advantages

So for this final section I'll be going more into why I still believe Carter wins at least regarding in what has been shown so far.

Nemesis's Speed V Hawkman's Speed -

As far as the idea of Speed, I clearly disagree with Nemesis speed being capable of forming tornado's and feel at best the feat with a mix of their blows connecting ( Despite again that not adding up to what we see from any other of Nemesis appearances) but even if he was Super Sonic in terms of speed it's nothing new to Carter.

Here we have Carter overwhelming the Original Doctor Polaris and its very clear that if not for Polaris's realizing that his foe had metal on him to control him would of more than likely lost.

The OG Doctor Polaris was able to react to a blitz from Wally West yet due to a mix of his aerial and military combat as well as his own impressive speed Carter was clearly overwhelming the Doctor and was only taken out due to the metal in his uniform. Hell Polaris control of metal in his earlier days was fast enough that Wally that was going Mach one had trouble shaking off his metal. yet Hawkman was able to do so in his fight and close the distance once again to blitz Polaris.

So clearly the "possibility" of super sonic speeds isn't a problem.

Nemesis's Durability V Hawkman's Attack Potency -

Another section I feel confident in won't change regardless of possible forms. Simply put the feat earlier of Katar's Nth Metal Wings being able to cut through Hal Jordans Construct casually and having these caliber of of weaponry being able to form in his hand means that regardless of the best durability feat you could show won't be a match for the impressive casual striking I've showcased added next to weapons that can cleanly cut Nemesis and a Hawkman who as per the rules is going for a kill on this enemy. You'll have to show some pretty wild durability to say Carter won't be capable of cutting Nemesis in two with utter ease.

Nemesis's Attack Potency V Hawkman's Durability -

I'm still not convinced base Nemesis has what it takes to put Carter down, the single best feat I've seen from him is the train feat which we aren't sure exactly how he did it but even he did just throw a punch and caused that much damage ( not likely) Carter has walked of similar attacks from an RPG fine -

And this is still the weaker incarnation of Hawkman who performed this feat. He's not even really hurt or dazed and is up in seconds. The same RPG leveled the apartment building they were on as we see both Hawkman and Deathstroke on the rubble of said building.

Nemesis's Skill V Hawkman's Skill -

Save for a few feats against currently skill less bricks I'm still Keeping the stance Carter is superior to someone who at best was a great Boxer but that's not really in the same category as Hawkman

In the first part of his fight with Aquaman in the water and being over power he's able to use one of his grenades to push him and Arthur out of the water so that he can claim an advantage -

After this encounter where both were virtually unarmed and despite Katar trying to calm Arthur down and being hit with sand in the eye ( Aquaman thinks Katar was trying to kill his "friend") Katar showcases that despite the strength disadvantage that he's capable of out skilling Aquaman and pinning him, he's even using his non bladed wings to throw him off his game -

I'd wager Arthur is both physically superior and a better fighter than anyone Nemesis himself and anyone he has fought and Katar wasn't even trying to kill him though the same is equally true for Arthur.

Even a physically weaker Carter without the same thousand lifetimes of experience is capable of holding off and trading blows with New 52 Lobo and while yes, he did lose the fight him keeping pace as long as he did with someone skilled and versatile enough to get the upper hands on Kryptonians despite not being physically on their level still speaks for itself.

Harping back on the subject of Carters Wings is they strike with enough force to make a superhuman wearing a metal helmet bleed and kill him in a single strike . ( A similar move he did against Aquaman) Such force with bladed wings Carter here will surely prove to cleave through nemesis and he very much so prefers to use them in combat as they are like extra appendages.

Nemesis V Nth Metal -

my next post will go into his overpowered fourth form, infection hax, tentacles, and every other reason this fight is hopeless for Carter Hall.

Since your next post is your last I wanted to give you a chance to counter my preemptive rebuttals regarding these factors.

Firstly Regeneration - I would like to bring up a villain Katar faced during his earlier days as apart of the "New 52" Reboot, that Being Morphicus and his species known as the "Xenusians" in his first interaction with them he was able to cut through their heads and limbs casually with a tool axe but instead of killing said creatures he was simply multiplying them So their regeneration is already extremely good, yet as soon as Carter switched to his hawk man gear ( His Nth metal weapons) they ceased multiplying . This alone is already a great counter to to Nemesis own regeneration which I don't think is nearly as good as losing his head and splitting into two.

Even if he is able to heal from these wounds it would more than likely spell his doom. In the Remake which you've stated you plan to use feats from his other forms, it's very clear the more he transforms and becomes less humanoid the more intellect he loses. He fights more like a rapid dog than a Boxer and is final form is just a mass of flesh the seemingly has lost the ability to heal fatal wounds anymore and even more so loses any mobility he had allowing Jill to zone him out with firearms. If he is pushed to these forms while he may gain more over all power he'll slowly lose quite a few of advantages and/or abilities he had earlier which you posed as a threat. That's IF you can prove the Nth Metal doesn't cease his healing.

Infection Hax - While I'm not sure how you will argue this I can at least attempt to defend Carter regarding such tactics. The same alien species as spoken about above the "Xenusians" are an parasitic species that instead of reproducing naturally like humans they instead infect other life forms -

As you can see the first unlucky bastard was turned in seconds, and following that attempted to turn both Carter and the other worker. He succeeded at the latter but failed to infect Carter due to his Nth Metal flowing through his body. Carter was able to shrug off such attempts of infection without even trying while iirc Nemesis's own took place over a couple of hours on Jill Valentine who despite getting worse throughout the game was still able to evade him.

Tentacles - Not sure where you're going to go with this, as I've shown Carter won't have any problem cleaving through them with his bladed weaponry and his wings already are a decent enough defense. I'll await to see what you argue.

Round 1 Conclusions

From what's been shown so far I'm even more confident in Carters ability to win with mid difficulty.

  • Hawkman's casual striking is superior to anything shown from Nemesis durability so far and adding that on to his superior bladed weaponry that can cleanly cut through Nemesis means damage won't be a problem
  • Hawkman's combative speed is better on an consistent basis and Hawkman uses it far better in tandem with his skill.
  • Speaking of skill I've shown Hawkman has the skill to compete with characters out of he or Nemesis's League such as Aquaman and New 52 Lobo both of which are more skilled than Nemesis.
  • Carter has the durability to tank anything shown from Nemesis at the moment regarding blunt force as well as an inferior but still effective healing factor to keep him in the game.
  • Carter's Nth Metal's versatility is a perfect counter to anything in Nemesis's arsenal from his infection hax to his own healing factor until proven other wise.

All around Nemesis is a worthy opponent but Hawkman has the means to put him down for good.

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@stormshadow_x:

First/second form Nemesis

Lifting strength

  • Nemesis and other Tyrants are between 50-100 tons through quantifiable feats. This puts base Nemesis far out of Carter's weight class who does not seem to have any worthwhile lifting feats at all. Carter cannot go hand-to-hand with Nemesis.
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Striking strength

  • This is closer because Hawkman has his weapon, but the Tyrants don't need weapons to strike just as hard as Hawkman can with his mace, shown when they are able to make the entire bridge quake with their hits.
No Caption Provided
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Speed

  • Nemmy and Tyrants are always moving their claws faster than rockets and their strikes are only visible as blurs. Their combat speed is at least low supersonic. I think Nemesis speed is equal to Hawkman or slightly faster.
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Skill

  • Nemesis is not as traditionally martial arts skilled as Hawkman but he is a killing machine with an "enhanced thinking process" designed towards hunting and creating new tactics. I honestly think he would keep up just fine in the skills department, and he would surprise Carter several times with his intelligence.

(Source) The "Nemesis-T Type"... has outstanding intelligence to trust-worthily carry out commands. Moreover, it also excels in self-judgement ability due to enhancement of thinking capacity, and also masters weapons which require complicated operation without difficulty.

<-The Nemesis-T Type is superior in performance as a combat machine and masters every weapon.

Regeneration

  • Even if Hawkman does defeat base form Nemmy, this will tire him out as Nemesis will continue fighting in this form long after his head is destroyed. The fight with base Nemmy will be long, priming Hawkman for a defeat at the hands of later transformations.

Third form Nemesis

  • Nemesis grows huge and gains a massive boost to speed, agility, and power. If he wasn't already stronger and faster than Carter, he definitely is now. Hawkman will need to rely on his weapons and flight even more now as he can't hang close with this.
Swims fast enough to propel himself two stories up
Swims fast enough to propel himself two stories up
Ragdolls every vehicle and rips up the buildings casually by running
Ragdolls every vehicle and rips up the buildings casually by running

Defeating this form of Nemesis is even harder as he will not go down until he is completely melted into mush. And this doesn't kill him, merely triggers the final transformation.

Final form Nemesis

Loading Video...

Hawkman now has absolutely no chance of defeating Nemesis and here is why.

This version of Nemesis is not just the size of a building, he is easily multi-city block to possibly small city level in durability, based on tanking the Rail Cannon, which is stated to be a weapon equal to the bomb which destroyed Raccoon City.

(Source) Q19. Which type of missile appeared in the ending?

A19. As of yet, it's unclear if this new type of bomb is one like a thermobraic bomb with the highest destructive power next to a nuclear weapon, but radioactive contamination seems to be extremely low. In this story, it could be said that it's equal to the rail cannon as a top-secret weapon of the U.S. military.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This is the bomb that destroyed Raccoon City. I am not saying it is a nuclear bomb because the interview I posted specifically states that it probably isn't, and Raccoon City is a very small city in the first place. However considering this bomb destroyed the small city along with 100,000 BOWs instantly, and it took multiple shots from the Rail Cannon to destroy Nemesis, this is easily multi-city block level or small city level.

No Caption Provided

For reference, a lesser Tyrant was pierced by (but still ultimately tanked) the Rail Cannon, and the after effect was still city block level.

Rebuttals

An Hyperbole is just that, visually falling from a sky scraper is no where near as impressive as falling from the stratosphere. The comparison is night and day. One is falling from a tall building the other is falling to the point where you can see the earth itself almost in it's entirety.

Nemesis was being propelled by rockets in my scans which would help him reach terminal velocity. The narration states exactly "the impact was equal to a meteor falling from the sky" so this feat and Hawkman's are identical.

A non holding back Carter is capable of doing this casually.

He hit the ground with enough force to toss the giant wooden creatures around like paper ( and destroy them as well as make a sizeable crater in the ground.

I have shown comparable feats from base form Tyrants. Nemesis in his final form is bigger than that crater so honestly making an impact like that wouldn't be a problem.

we know nothing about how he destroyed the train car, he could of used his flamethrower or lets say he did use it brute strength Which isn't likely as he's failed the one shot peak humans before.

Nemesis destroyed the train car right after his weapons are explicitly destroyed by Jill and Carlos. We can even see Nemmy standing in the remains of the train unarmed so this is definitely a strength feat.

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It probably looked something like this. We already know that Nemesis scales to William Birkin and can restrain this kind of strength.

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Train car busting is still equal to or superior to the amount of land that Hawkman cratered due to the amount of stainless steel being busted, as I elaborated on in my previous post. Nemesis doesn't need weapons to do what Hawkman can do.

This is a nice short burst of speed... but if he can really use it that reliably why does he have such a hard time catching Jill throughout the game.

You and I both know that the street levelers are just wanked. There have seen similar instances where someone like Deathstroke or Batman dances around Hawkman. I wouldn't hold this against either Nemesis or Hawkman, they're both clearly supersonic fighters. They just get outmaneuvered by top tier peak humans which happens to a lot of mid tier characters. They also have feats of completely outclassing other peak humans so it's not like it happens all the time.

Yeah Nemesis is defiantly good at smacking those away, except when he seemingly isn't

I admit Nemesis will sometimes tank an attack that he doesn't believe will hurt him. But he clearly has the ability to dodge missiles when he wants to.

As far as the idea of Speed, I clearly disagree with Nemesis speed being capable of forming tornado's and feel at best the feat with a mix of their blows connecting ( Despite again that not adding up to what we see from any other of Nemesis appearances) but even if he was Super Sonic in terms of speed it's nothing new to Carter.

All it really means is that Nemesis and Birkin were throwing strikes at supersonic speed. This is Nemesis's true combat speed, and I agree this is nothing new to Carter, he can keep up with Nemesis. I'm just saying Nemesis has a marginal advantage in combat speed because of this tornado feat.

Infection Hax - While I'm not sure how you will argue this I can at least attempt to defend Carter regarding such tactics. The same alien species as spoken about above the "Xenusians" are an parasitic species that instead of reproducing naturally like humans they instead infect other life forms -

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So like you said, Nemesis can easily infect his opponents with the T-Virus during the fight. As you can see he is able to easily tag Jill with this.

There is only 1 cure for the T-Virus, and besides that any host will die and uncontrollably transform into a mindless monster within a few hours. Due to Nemesis's regeneration, the battle with Hawkman very likely will take hours, and if Carter is infected at any point he will gradually become weaker while Nemesis gradually becomes stronger.

The T-Virus is not an instakill as it takes several hours to incubate within the host's body, but it is still quite a lot more powerful than most other viruses and parasites in fiction. I acknowledge that Carter has resisted some type of alien parasite in those scans, but he was still somewhat effected, and the T-Virus is a lot more powerful than some fodder parasite.

The power of the T-Virus is well documented within Resident Evil's vast lore as the most powerful weapon on Earth, capable of taking over any creature on Earth. The reason Raccoon City had to be destroyed was because the T-Virus would have spread to the whole world otherwise.

The T-Virus was developed over decades by Umbrella (the most powerful organization in REverse) and a team of scientists sacrificing countless people and animals from around the world during their cruel experiments, until the T-Virus finally reached a state of perfection. It will make victory impossible for Hawkman if he is infected.

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@the_hajduk: Sorry I saw this the day you put it up but that was the same day CV started acting weird and not letting some users like me post. I'll have my final post up by Friday or saturday

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#49  Edited By stormshadow_x

@the_hajduk: Nope sorry. I'll try and finish the post ASAP