In an issue of Justice League, Wonder Woman states that she thinks she is faster because she is a trained warrior and her actions are in her muscle memory. Batman agrees, asking, "who's faster, Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee?" I say that this is complete BS. Superman is a master of Kryptonian martial arts, has fought for 1000+ years, and I've even heard that he's beaten Batman while powerless. It's often stated that it takes about 10,000 hours to become an expert at a skill. Superman has fought for many times that amount. He's had plenty of time to adapt and perfect a fighting style for his powerset. That's not even considering the fact that his super senses, intelligence, and speed should enable him to master anything in even less time. All in all, I think his reflexes are often underrated in both the comics and on the battle forums.
Are Superman's Reflexes Underrated?
His brain is under rated or ignored
I mean if the rest of his biology is enhanced dramatically, so should his thought process, the guy should be the smartest man in the DCU is all i'm saying
@Pokeysteve: I believe it's a pressure point based system and he's used it on New Krypton, against Ultraman, and against Batman.
Supes hold back too much. This man would be freak if he uses some strength you guys shoudl read the DC online version comics it pretty good
Man there is so much wrong in your post.In an issue of Justice League, Wonder Woman states that she thinks she is faster because she is a trained warrior and her actions are in her muscle memory. Batman agrees, asking, "who's faster, Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee?" I say that this is complete BS. Superman is a master of Kryptonian martial arts, has fought for 1000+ years, and I've even heard that he's beaten Batman while powerless. It's often stated that it takes about 10,000 hours to become an expert at a skill. Superman has fought for many times that amount. He's had plenty of time to adapt and perfect a fighting style for his powerset. That's not even considering the fact that his super senses, intelligence, and speed should enable him to master anything in even less time. All in all, I think his reflexes are often underrated in both the comics and on the battle forums.
-It's not 10,000 hours, it's 10,000 times. So it's pretty arbitrary to your argument and proves nothing.
-Where the hell does he have 1000+ years of fight experience? DID HE LITERALLY FIGHT FOR 1000 YEARS STRAIGHT? And even if he did I'm sure it has been retcon... that sounds like a terrible story...
- When has he defeated Batman powerless?
-And last I remember Kryptonian Martial Arts was pretty disappointing.
I think they are honestly overrated. I hate it when people try to claim he fights at FTL but there is never any proof whatsoever.
@MikeLitoris:
Superman has greater reaction time and speed.
Wonder Woman corrects Superman, that he's only faster at traveling, not combat. She further explains to him it's because of muscle memory because she has better combat reflexes. Superman has faster reaction time, reaction time allows you to perceive, think, and act in time of an objective. Wonder Woman naturally does it with out thinking.
I'll break it down to a more simple way of understanding the difference from combat reflexes and reaction time.
We'll use an example of a punch.
For Superman. While he has greater reaction time and speed in general, when he see's an attack, regardless of the attack, be it hurt him or not. He still has to make a decision on how to handle that punch. Even if it takes him a nanosecond to think about this. He's still doing one thing, he's still thinking, thus costing him time he could have used. Not only does he have to think about what he's going to do, but he has to perform that task of what he has thought.
For Wonder Woman. While she may not be as fast or have greater reaction time equal to Superman. She is faster than him in combat because of her combat reflexes. Combat reflexes, when dealing with an attack of any kind, a punch, a kick, etc. As long as your trained enough and know how to handle your training exceptionally well, you need no thought process of how to handle that in coming attack. You instantly have an answer for it as soon as the attack has been started, to progressing, to finish. Combat reflexes stem as far as reading an attack through body language, such as which punch will most likely be thrown as a jab or a hook by the simple alignment of the shoulders. Point is... Wonder Woman takes no time to think on what to do, Superman needs to think, and that fraction of thought process could be what allows Wonder Woman to be faster than Superman in combat.
Edit*
Also... the difference in combat reflexes and reaction time. Superman needs to read an attack of what's capable of doing, and most of the time doesn't need to. But for those attacks that will hurt him, he has to read them. Wonder Woman naturally knows how to react to them with out having to read the attack
@MikeLitoris: Where was it said he is a master of Kryptonian martial arts? I've never heard that. I know Supergirl knows some but I never knew Clark learned any. You really only see the damn pressure points scan everywhere always in his battle threads.I don't know if this is kyrptonian but he can fight.
In an issue of Justice League, Wonder Woman states that she thinks she is faster because she is a trained warrior and her actions are in her muscle memory. Batman agrees, asking, "who's faster, Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee?" I say that this is complete BS. Superman is a master of Kryptonian martial arts, has fought for 1000+ years, and I've even heard that he's beaten Batman while powerless. It's often stated that it takes about 10,000 hours to become an expert at a skill. Superman has fought for many times that amount. He's had plenty of time to adapt and perfect a fighting style for his powerset. That's not even considering the fact that his super senses, intelligence, and speed should enable him to master anything in even less time. All in all, I think his reflexes are often underrated in both the comics and on the battle forums.I don't think he beat batman in hand to hand no powers if he did that bad writing. It doesn't take anything away from superman's reflexes that wonder woman is faster. Wonder woman has had centuries of battle experience to master her fighting skills.
@MikeLitoris:
Their training makes a big difference. Superman never got the same kind of training as Wonder Woman. When I mean, same kind of training. I mean the time and dedication put into the training she has gotten, and of course the difficulty level of her training.
Wonder Woman has trained with others for years to hone her skills, others who are in league of her when it comes to strength, speed, etc. Her training is percisely what it's meant to do, to beat your opponent before they can attack.
I'll phrase combat reflexes a little bit better. It's not about being faster, at all. It's about having an answer to a problem before that problem happens. For example... if you curl your hand into a fist with a slight shift in your shoulder alignment. I am most likely going to assume you're going to throw a punch, but before you could even lift that fist up and throw it. I have an answer to how to deal with that punch, all I would have to do is wait for you to throw that punch so I can give you the answer on how to deal with that punch.
It is indeed 10,000 hours.
Man there is so much wrong in your post. -It's not 10,000 hours, it's 10,000 times. So it's pretty arbitrary to your argument and proves nothing. -Where the hell does he have 1000+ years of fight experience? DID HE LITERALLY FIGHT FOR 1000 YEARS STRAIGHT? And even if he did I'm sure it has been retcon... that sounds like a terrible story...- When has he defeated Batman powerless? -And last I remember Kryptonian Martial Arts was pretty disappointing. I think they are honestly overrated. I hate it when people try to claim he fights at FTL but there is never any proof whatsoever.
oh, and if he was indeed in valhalla for 1000 years (which i'm not sure of), he would have spent close to 500 years or so of it fighting. all you do in valhalla is fight and drink beer, iirc
@MikeLitoris: Its hard for any martial art to fail when your superman. That's like saying brock lesnar is a master of the ground and pound style, when really, he's just twice the size of most of his opponents. When you've seen him using kryptonian martial arts, were they against comparable foes? was he using them against wonderwoman? captain marvel? doomsday? if its anyone not in that caliber, its useless to use that argument.
That actually all depends.
Martial Arts, invented by people but each style usually has a different method of how that particular style has came about. For example, Tiger and Monkey style, animal art forms of kung fu, they came about from different people who did one thing in particular that's the same as the other, they watched these animals act and react. The Dragon style, it came through on how you can imagine a dragon attacking. So... you already have two different styles, each with a different way of how they came about. Wing Chun, Chinese martial arts, created by a Woman with the design to defeat superior opponents, such as a "dominating" male figure.
Some Martial Arts invent them selves based on being aware or imagining something, or some how by completely shure luck of stumbling upon something. Experience is one thing, but experience doesn't play off well if you don't take your experience into consideration or think on your experiences, that includes good and bad one's so that you allow your self to reach a higher form of perfection.
Superman, I wouldn't say he has mastered a fighting system of his own, because one... he's not a fanatic for fighting. He does a lot of it, but he's not trying to create a fighting system, nor trying to create a new fighting technique, nor going out of his way to improve techniques he already has. Superman relies primarly on his powers, and when he needs to, he will rely on other things, such as trying to out smart out or speed someone, and if he has to, rely on skill. But Superman doesn't "define" skill as a character, nor does his fights define skill either, for the majority anyway. He defines power, and in way or another, he will try to over power you but rarely out skill you.
When I think of the term skill in combat. Wonder Woman comes to mind, Karate Kid comes to mind, Batman comes to mind, etc. These are people, when in combat situations usually have an answer to each attack thrown at them with out trying to physically beat the attack, such as over powering it or out speeding it.
@MikeLitoris said:Man there is so much wrong in your post. -It's not 10,000 hours, it's 10,000 times. So it's pretty arbitrary to your argument and proves nothing. -Where the hell does he have 1000+ years of fight experience? DID HE LITERALLY FIGHT FOR 1000 YEARS STRAIGHT? And even if he did I'm sure it has been retcon... that sounds like a terrible story...- When has he defeated Batman powerless? -And last I remember Kryptonian Martial Arts was pretty disappointing. I think they are honestly overrated. I hate it when people try to claim he fights at FTL but there is never any proof whatsoever.In an issue of Justice League, Wonder Woman states that she thinks she is faster because she is a trained warrior and her actions are in her muscle memory. Batman agrees, asking, "who's faster, Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee?" I say that this is complete BS. Superman is a master of Kryptonian martial arts, has fought for 1000+ years, and I've even heard that he's beaten Batman while powerless. It's often stated that it takes about 10,000 hours to become an expert at a skill. Superman has fought for many times that amount. He's had plenty of time to adapt and perfect a fighting style for his powerset. That's not even considering the fact that his super senses, intelligence, and speed should enable him to master anything in even less time. All in all, I think his reflexes are often underrated in both the comics and on the battle forums.
This
Not entirely.
Combat reflexes has nothing to do with being faster. It has everything to do on how to counter an attack before an attack is made. For Superman to use his complete power set in combat instinctively. The thought of "using heat vision" or thinking over how much speed and strength he needs to use would never come to mind. If he were to use his powers instinctively in combat, it would just happen.
Superman will always have to think. Instincts has no thought process, you just perform it.
When Superman fights, he absolutely needs to think. Handling various villains of human durability to levels of his durability to in between levels of durability can really mess up your game of gaining combat reflexes to handle each thing instinctively.
Such as when he's fighting a human in a special designed suit. He has to think about a lot of factors, how hard can he punch, how fast can he punch, what angle should he punch at, does he have to be cautious of using the momentum of his body weight when he punches, etc. He has to think about each of these things, plus much more based on the circumstances of his situation. To instinctively act, you can't think about any of these things, you just act. If Superman did that, he'd be one of the biggest mass murderers in comics, or that it's really, really, really, bad writing. All his powers work like this. Either or... There's a lot of reasons why Superman doesn't have combat reflexes nor acts on instinct. A lot of times, you lose control and at this point or at anytime point shown, Superman doesn't have any showings of being enough control to act on instinct with out some kind of problem in the end result.
Superman is stronger, faster, and quicker than roughly everyone, meaning that any "martial skill" he uses will triumph purely because of his physical superiority. You didn't address whether or not he was using his skill son comparable opponents. Who was he using his "pressure points" on? aquaman? batman? maybe even lex luthor?
Brock lesnar dismantling someone half his size does not show his skill. Superman defeating someone using a pressure points means NOTHING unless he was using it on someone who is on his tier. Unless you can show that he was defeating powerful opponents like martian manhunter, wonderwoman, supergirl, or captain marvel with his pressure points, his victories using kryptonian fighting is completely irrelevant.
Also: pressure points are the worst style of fighting to ever be invented, they are at most, mildly annoying, at least in real life.
Also, remember when he was fighting another Kryptonian 1 on 1 he used what "Batman" taught him.
Those are the main points I wanted to state.
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