destructive power of DBZ characters

#1 Edited by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

Here I'll talk about destructive power of DBZ characters, I'll show feats and statements, and then I'll try to explain them the best I can, and hopefully start a nice little debate.

Roshi destroyed the moon with PL fewer than 200

King Piccolo stated he will destroy 1/43 of the earth with PL fewer than 300

Piccolo Jr destroyed the moon with PL fewer than 500, without even powering up

Nappa effortlessly destroyed entire region just by lifting his fingers, with PL around 5000

Vegeta fired Earth busting beam, which was stopped by Goku, vegeta had PL 18 000.

Since the Earth was saved by goku, and thus remeined undestroyed, we cannot be absolutly sure if he was really able to destroy it, but consider it he was massievly more powerful than moon busters, I think we should take his statement seriously.

what proven moon busters think about Vegeta and Nappa:

Frieza effortlessly destroyed planet Vegeta, with PL 530 000. Planet Vegeta had gravity 10x larger than Earth, which almost certainly means it was much bigger or much denser than the earth.

SSJ Goku had a Power level of 150 000 000.

Frieza also destroyed a Planet Namek, in his final form,

but after this they stoped showing high end feats.

It is clear that their power was increasing constantly, but we had no feat or statement from which we could precisely determine by how much.

SSJ Goku ( on namek)<Mecha Frieza<<< SSJ Trunks<<<SSJ Goku(pre android saga)<<<<<SSJ Goku (android saga)<SSJVegeta android saga<<Android 18<Android 17<<<<Cell (after absorbing people)</=Android 16<<<<Cell (after absorbing 17)<<<<Vegeta (after training in time chamber)<<<<Perfect Cell<<<<Super Perfect Cell

That is until Cell stated his controversial solar system busting statement, which was confirmed in the official DBZ handbook.

Was he really able to destroy a solar system, and what does it even mean to destroy a solar system?

He said „ I have gathered enough energy to destroy a solar system“ which is a statement that can be interpreted in several ways.

1.He can create an explosion big enough to cover entire solar system and destroy everything within it's range.

2.He can destroy the sun with 99% of his power, and then use the rest 1% of his power to destoy planets and moons.

3. He can destroy the sun, which would then explode and destroy the rest oft he solar system

4. He can destroy the sun, which is technically the end oft he solar system.

We know that character like Frieza in his weakest form with PL 530 000 are casual planet busters, and we also know that SPC is incomperably more powerful than him.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.Frieza first form (PL 530 000)<<Frieza second form<<<Frieza third form<<<<Frieza final form (PL 120 000 000) <SSJ Goku (PL 150 000 000, on namek)<Mecha Frieza<<< SSJ Trunks<<<SSJ Goku(pre android saga)<<<<<SSJ Goku (android saga)<SSJVegeta android saga<<Android 18<Android 17<<<<Cell (after absorbing people)</=Android 16<<<<Cell (after absorbing 17)<<<<Vegeta (after training in time chamber)<<<<Perfect Cell<<<<Super Perfect Cell

Or in other words

Casual planet busters<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SP Cell

So how do we quantify this massive power difference between casual planet busters and Cell?

I think that accepting his statement and the statement made in the official DBZ handbook is the best method we currently have.

If we decide to ignore the statemets made by Cell and his creator Akira Toriyama, what better method do we have to quantify this massive power difference between SPC and casual planet busters? Clearly we can't just ignore something like that, and put him in the same category with first form Frieza?

its translation :

"An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

After that:

SP Cell<SSJ2 Gohan<<<<<SSJ2 Goku</=SSJ2 Majin Vegeta<<<Fat Majin Buu<<SSJ3 Goku<<Mystic Gohan <<<<<Buuhan<<<<<<SSJ Vegeto<<<<SSJ3 Vegeto

In the end kid Buu effortlessly fired an earth busting attack, which was easly countered and stoped by Vegeta, who apparently focus it's explosion.

Then Buu, created an energy ball so powerful that both Vegeta (who had access to SSJ2) and Goku (who had excess to SSJ3) were unable to stop.

So the Earth end up destroyed

List of statemnts

I've seen people asking, if all top tier DBZ characters have enough power to wipe out a planet with a fraction of a percent of their power, how come most of their explosions are only mountain or city level?

To me, obvious answer seem to be that they focus their explosions on a smaller area, but they remain equally powerful

Bassically, just because explosion is smaller it doesn't mean it is less powerful.

Self destruction is perfect example of concreted explosion.

We know Vegeta used his entire power to peerform this attack, yet the explosion was much smaller then a moon explosion

So was the explosion focused or is this the limit for SSJ2 Majin Vegeta?

Nappa effortlessly destroyed whole region, but when he used his most powerful attack attack the explosion was incomparably smaller

Here, I think, Vegeta focused his attack, to prevent Earth from being destroyed.

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See statement from Trunks, Vegeta made his attack smaller.

But what I don't undersand is why people are using this "most of their explosions are just mountain busting" argument only against DBZ. In almost every fictional universe explosions can be focused.

Take a look at this scan, Odin KOed SS with a blast, and explosion was not bigger than car explosion. Does that means SS can get KOed by a car explosion? Ofc not. that explosion obviously had enough energy to destroy planets, it was just focused.

The Molecule Man once hit PR-Beyonder with enough power to slag a billion dimensions , yet the apartment they were standing in(let alone a whole universe) was unfazed

  • here superman got destroyed by an attack that didn't even destroy a city.
  • here Thanos got a little bit hurt from a city busting explosion, or was this a focused planet+ explosion?

here thanos (with shields) got hurt from an explosion smaller than a house, or was this focused planet+ explosion?

I think all those explosions were focused planet+ explosions, and I apply the same logic for DBZ world.

One more thing I have noticed is that they panic about earth might getting destroyed only when someone is charging their full powered attack. I think that is because when they go all out, they can't fully control their attacks, and it is enough for them to lose control over 1% of their power, and the earth would be vaporized.

#2 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

Cell said he can destroy a solar system. Dragonball Z characters are pretty simple. When they say they can destroy something, then they can destroy something.

#3 Posted by morgrim (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: my simple logic when dealing with the destructive power of dbz characters is this frieza in first form could destroy a planet probably the size of jupiter with ease hence with his/her's whole ten fingers he could destroy ten planets equalling a solar system then with each transformation frieza said his powers like quadrupled so thats 4 solar systems every form and by his last transformation {he transformed about 3-4 times} he could destroy arguably a galaxy and goku in supersayian 1 surpassed frieza thus puting him at galaxy busting levels then with each consecutive sayian their powers multiply like tenfold so by the 3 super sayin they could destroy multiple galaxies on a whim not to mention mystic gohan {and the non canon super sayian 4} plus they can unwittingly scream tears in teh fabric of time and space so in their final forms they are probably at a universe busting level

#4 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@morgrim said:

@AweSam: my simple logic when dealing with the destructive power of dbz characters is this frieza in first form could destroy a planet probably the size of jupiter with ease hence with his/her's whole ten fingers he could destroy ten planets equalling a solar system then with each transformation frieza said his powers like quadrupled so thats 4 solar systems every form and by his last transformation {he transformed about 3-4 times} he could destroy arguably a galaxy and goku in supersayian 1 surpassed frieza thus puting him at galaxy busting levels then with each consecutive sayian their powers multiply like tenfold so by the 3 super sayin they could destroy multiple galaxies on a whim not to mention mystic gohan {and the non canon super sayian 4} plus they can unwittingly scream tears in teh fabric of time and space so in their final forms they are probably at a universe busting level

Not very good, if you ask me. Freiza destroyed Vegeta fairly easily. But when he didn't get the same results with Namek. Assuming Namek's a large planet, Vegeta must be rather small. It took Kid Buu's most powerful attack to destroy Earth. I'm assuming Namel is roughly the size of Earth. Basically, Frieza would be capable of destroying, let's say, Mars in an instant. Kid Buu can destroy planets the size of Earth, possibly larger, in an instant. Cell would probably the minimum when it comes to destroying an Earth sized planet.

#5 Posted by morgrim (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam: actually the reason y planet namek didnt immeadiately blow up was because frieza had used the majority of his power fighting the z warriors so by that time he was severly weakened plus if he just instant blew it up he would be caught in the after math secondly the reason y villians tend to us their most powerfull attacks to blow up earth is because if they didnt te n the z fighters would just knock it back at them so they use an attck that if the z fighters took it head on would kill them andf the planet like what cell tried to do with gohan qand goku when he was all like "take the hit and u die , dogde it and the planet is destroyed Bwwhhaaaa" however he didnt know gohan was strong enought to redirect

#6 Edited by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam

@morgrim

Final form Frieza is hundreds of thousands times more powerful than Piccolo and Roshi were, when they destroyed the moons, and King Piccolo when he stated he can destroy 1/43 of the Earth.

He is thousands of times more powerful than Vegeta was, when he fired Earth busting attack.

And Final form Frieza is hundreds of times more powerful then himself in base form, and Frieza in his weakest form effortlessly destroyed planet Vegeta.

Planet Vegeta had gravity 10x larger than Earth, which almost certainly means it was much bigger or much denser than the earth.

According to all this, it seem that Frieza should be able to effortlessly destroy Earth, and most likely create attacks thousands of times more powerful than earth busting.

However, energy attack 1000 times more powerful than Earth busting maybe wouldn't even be powerful enough to destroy Jupiter, let alone the Sun, or the Solar System or freaking Galaxy, you are crazy morgrim.

Basically the conclusion is that Frieza should be able to destroy Earth with ease, and he could probably destroy Jupiter size planets, with a lot of effort, but there is no way he could destroy Sun, or the Solar System,

Frieza and his father talking about the Earth.

And I think that Namek was not a big planet, maybe few times bigger than the Earth at most.

So why didn't he destroy it in an instant?

Probably PIS. He didn't destroyed it in instant, but it was still about to explode in 5 minutes, so we could have 100 more episodes to watch.

Maybe he didn't want to get caught in the explosion.

Maybe he wanted to kill Goku with his bare hands, and turning Namek into time bomb was just for the insurance.

Maybe he he simply miscalculated the amount of energy he needs to use, or maybe he deliberately used the least amount of energy needed to blow up the Namek, so he could keep most energy for a fight.

After all Goku wouldn't die from a planet explosion, but he would suffocate from the lack of oxygen.

But before he suffocates, he could still fight for at least few minutes.

Who knows

EDIT:

he said he held back too much:

Also, the reason why Buu used his full powered attack to destroy the Earth was because his casual earth busting attack was easily stoped by Vegeta

@Mortein said:

In the end kid Buu effortlessly fired an earth busting attack, which was easly countered and stoped by Vegeta, who apparently focus it's explosion.

Then Buu, created an energy ball so powerful that both Vegeta (who had access to SSJ2) and Goku (who had excess to SSJ3) were unable to stop.

So the Earth end up destroyed

#7 Posted by morgrim (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mortein: i beg to differ planet vegeta was bigger than earth and he destroyed it with a finger in base level without even trying thus it stands to reason that with all his 10 fingers plus trying he could destroy 10 vegeta sized planets whic im sure r bigger than jupiter hence when his power is multiplied in each transformation his powerlevel as well as the amount of planets he can destroy goes up so by his last transformation im pretty sure he can destroy solar systems with ease thus a super sayian being stronger than him could do the same and more plus since broly destroyed a galaxy with seeming ease and his powerr at that time was arguably that of a super sayian 2 we can say that a super sayin 2 is a galaxy buster plus since their power keeps multiplying with each transformation we can assume with some level of certanty that at super sayian three and mystic gohan and goku,gotenks and all those that level and above r easy galaxy busters

#8 Edited by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@morgrim said:

@Mortein: i beg to differ planet vegeta was bigger than earth and he destroyed it with a finger in base level without even trying thus it stands to reason that with all his 10 fingers plus trying he could destroy 10 vegeta sized planets whic im sure r bigger than jupiter hence when his power is multiplied in each transformation his powerlevel as well as the amount of planets he can destroy goes up so by his last transformation im pretty sure he can destroy solar systems with ease thus a super sayian being stronger than him could do the same and more plus since broly destroyed a galaxy with seeming ease and his powerr at that time was arguably that of a super sayian 2 we can say that a super sayin 2 is a galaxy buster plus since their power keeps multiplying with each transformation we can assume with some level of certanty that at super sayian three and mystic gohan and goku,gotenks and all those that level and above r easy galaxy busters

Movies are non canon, and amount of fingers used has nothing to do with the power of energy ball, and even if it did, in a scan I gave you above Frieza used his entire hand.

Top tier DBZ characters are at best multi solar system busters, and maybe not even that. If you disagree show me scans which disproves me.

And why do you think Vegeta is bigger than the Earth?

#9 Posted by morgrim (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mortein: even if vegeta wasnt bigger than earth it stands to reason that frieza in form 1 can destroy multiple planets with ease hence in his final form he is a solar system buster thus by super sayian three they r galaxy busters simple

#10 Edited by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@morgrim said:

@Mortein: even if vegeta wasnt bigger than earth it stands to reason that frieza in form 1 can destroy multiple planets with ease hence in his final form he is a solar system buster thus by super sayian three they r galaxy busters simple

Just because Frieza could destroy thousands of earth like planets, that doesn't mean he can destroy a solar system. You could fit million earths within a sun, Sun is comprising about 99.86% of the total mass of the solar system.

I seriously doubt Frieza could destroy a sun, and Galaxy consists of hundreds of billions stars, light years away from each other.

#11 Posted by SoA (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

what about when buu was searching the universe for goku and vegeta and was blowing up planets that they were not on?

#12 Posted by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

what about when buu was searching the universe for goku and vegeta and was blowing up planets that they were not on?

filler

#13 Posted by SoA (4841 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mortein: ah.

#14 Posted by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA said:

@Mortein: ah.

But he destroyed hundreds of planets a long time ago .

#15 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku at his weakest SSJ1 level had 150 000 000. and that's 50 times his basic form. SSJ1 = Basic Form x50

Goku in GT story was more powerful than Cell and Frieza in basic form, that makes him at least, and i say at least , with Basic Form = SSJ2 = SSJ1 x2 = 300 000 000

what does that mean? it means this :

SSJ4 = SSJ3 x10 = SSJ2 x40 = SSJ1 x80 = Basic Form x4000 = 1 200 000 000 000.

now comparing SSJ4 to Vegeta 1st besic form in which he destroyed a planet with little to no effort. SSJ4 = (Vegeta weakest form) x75 000 000.

that means Goku is 75 million time planetbuster.

#16 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

A few people have long ignored you so called data for a few things. One character are known to exaggerate. We cannot take their word on most of them.

Two, stop using power levels the creator himself states that were made for villains to under estimate them. They are a joke. After the Freeza saga ignore them afterward. Please stop using them.

Three we don’t have an idea on how big is Namek is so it can be easily miscalculated. Cell was made red ribbon army and he did have force to destroy earth and True/Kid Buu can do it with ease

The Death Battle made a good calculation of his power. Which use the source of Dragonball mangas and website dedicated to Dragonball. Yes Goku is strong no one is denying that. However exaggerating has gotten annoying. Now we have calculation of his power let move on to other things.

#17 Posted by Impala (264 posts) - - Show Bio

As i see it all DBZ characters live in a very very small pocket dimension looking like the normal universe.

And Goku's power which u say is 1 200 000 000 000(i doubt its true) = 1.2 gram in DC Universe.

#18 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hazlenaut said:

A few people have long ignored you so called data for a few things. One character are known to exaggerate. We cannot take their word on most of them.

Two, stop using power levels the creator himself states that were made for villains to under estimate them. They are a joke. After the Freeza saga ignore them afterward. Please stop using them.

Three we don’t have an idea on how big is Namek is so it can be easily miscalculated. Cell was made red ribbon army and he did have force to destroy earth and True/Kid Buu can do it with ease

The Death Battle made a good calculation of his power. Which use the source of Dragonball mangas and website dedicated to Dragonball. Yes Goku is strong no one is denying that. However exaggerating has gotten annoying. Now we have calculation of his power let move on to other things.

1- there is no exaggeration, those PL are not characters assumptions they are Scooter's tech results, so they are pretty much correct.

2- he states that were made for villains to under estimate them, because there PL kept going up and up. my calculations are the basic minimal PL possible, but the real PL is beyond that.

3-what Namek has to do with anything? before Namek, Freiza did destroy planet Vegeta with little to no effort in 1st basic form, and Vegeta had 10G that's making 10 times size or density of earth.

4-those calculations on video are misleading, they used to compare between Goku and Superman : weight lifting and speed travel as speed reflexes. and both are wrong.

travel speed has nothing to do with reflexes, that's a big bias, they used to make Goku slower.

using weight lifting works only on Superman because his power are natural (kriptonian race) but weight lifting won't work on Goku because his power are based on Ki and martial arts technics, he beated many times guys who were surely better than him in weight lifting, because DBZ fights advantages are speed, Ki level, energy blasts, and technics.

#19 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mortein:

to make your OP more precise :

Roshi when he vaporized the moon had 180 PL.

and earth is only 50 times moon's size and 80 times moon's density. Vegeta at his 1st appearence had 18 000 PL, that's 100 times Roshi's power, so he surely can destroy earth no doubt.

#20 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder: Mr.Popo 1030? Doesn't make sense to me. Where is that pic from?

#21 Edited by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234: yeah!! it's really strange!! it's from Weekly Jump #31, 1991.

but maybe with this it will make some sense :

#22 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder: Well, not exactly. The kids were stronger than kid Goku, even if in base they had 100pl, that's 5000pl in SSJ. The difference bigger than Raditz vs teen Goku+Piccolo. The kids have no reason to go seriously, but I just wanted to point out that video can't prove anything about his strength imo, maybe not even canon.

Kid Goku had to train with Popo to become a worth person for train by Kami, in db. Even Popo admitted that in db he is weak compared to Kami. That pl contradict with the story of db.

#23 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder: You debate against the creator, sites dedicated to Dragonball. I have forgotten They shown the ki power can destroy the earth in kiyoken level. They shown number was useless when they said Goku thrives on surpassing his own limits but Superman has no limits. That is how they work one of them does have limits. If Goku had his way he would have fought Superman powered up by a blue sun while giving him senzu beans, because that is Goku. he was outmatch get over it.

#24 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@the_mighty_Beyonder: Well, not exactly. The kids were stronger than kid Goku, even if in base they had 100pl, that's 5000pl in SSJ. The difference bigger than Raditz vs teen Goku+Piccolo. The kids have no reason to go seriously, but I just wanted to point out that video can't prove anything about his strength imo, maybe not even canon.

Kid Goku had to train with Popo to become a worth person for train by Kami, in db. Even Popo admitted that in db he is weak compared to Kami. That pl contradict with the story of db.

maybe not, if you take by consideration that he evolved too in Vegeta & Nappa arc when everybody was training, that will solve the problem, but will put an other question : why didn't he help the others fighting Vegeta and Nappa? :P

#25 Edited by Hksaru (463 posts) - - Show Bio

Power levels are irrelevant, but the obvious destructive power is not.

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I know Broly himself is not canon but that doesn't matter because it's not like anything was changed in the DBZ characters. I believe, the characters are the exact same as they were in the days leading up to the Cell Games, which is when they were called on by King Kai.

My point is of Broly's feat of destroying an entire galaxy with one energy blast.

It is known that Broly destroyed the entire galaxy with one blast, and not over time as ignoramus' might insinuate for a number of reasons:

1. The galaxy itself is shown being vaporized all at once, from a fixed point within the galaxy, presumably Broly

2. King Kai alerts to it immediately, then to Goku, stating "our galaxy's next!" If Broly went from solar system to solar system in his space pod that would take ages and ages. King Kai would certainly notice it over time as well.

3. Broly is also shown effortlessly destroying planets with minor energy blasts

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If DC/marvel characters are brought to the brink of death by nuclear explosions, how on earth are they supposed to survive an encounter with a ki blast?

Because, sure, a ki blast might be proven to not be as powerful as they appear, but DBZ characters can throw out ki blasts as fast as their punches.

>Superman nearly dies to a nuke

>It would take many, many nukes to destroy the moon

>Roshi destroyed the moon effortlessly

>Roshi was NOTHING compared to Radditz

>Radditz was NOTHING compared to Nappa

and so on

Goku>Superman

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In the recently released Death Battle video Goku vs. Superman, Goku hardly even used ki blasts. But most specifically at the end in space when they made their epic showdown between sundipped Superman and Goku, they didn't even have Goku in Super Saiyan form when he used his Kamehameha, severely, SEVERELY limiting its power. They sourced some stupid people on Goku. His character wasn't even recognizable at all; "hey, you look pretty strong, let's fight!" like what? Then Goku goes and destroys a bunch of buildings? Please, the Death Battle people were clearly both biased and ignorant, despite claiming to be resourceful and true.

#26 Posted by JakeN7 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hksaru said:

Power levels are irrelevant, but the obvious destructive power is not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know Broly himself is not canon but that doesn't matter because it's not like anything was changed in the DBZ characters. I believe, the characters are the exact same as they were in the days leading up to the Cell Games, which is when they were called on by King Kai.

My point is of Broly's feat of destroying an entire galaxy with one energy blast.

It is known that Broly destroyed the entire galaxy with one blast, and not over time as ignoramus' might insinuate for a number of reasons:

1. The galaxy itself is shown being vaporized all at once, from a fixed point within the galaxy, presumably Broly

2. King Kai alerts to it immediately, then to Goku, stating "our galaxy's next!" If Broly went from solar system to solar system in his space pod that would take ages and ages. King Kai would certainly notice it over time as well.

3. Broly is also shown effortlessly destroying planets with minor energy blasts

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If DC/marvel characters are brought to the brink of death by nuclear explosions, how on earth are they supposed to survive an encounter with a ki blast?

Because, sure, a ki blast might be proven to not be as powerful as they appear, but DBZ characters can throw out ki blasts as fast as their punches.

>Superman nearly dies to a nuke

>It would take many, many nukes to destroy the moon

>Roshi destroyed the moon effortlessly

>Roshi was NOTHING compared to Radditz

>Radditz was NOTHING compared to Nappa

and so on

Goku>Superman

------------------------------------------------------------------

In the recently released Death Battle video Goku vs. Superman, Goku hardly even used ki blasts. But most specifically at the end in space when they made their epic showdown between sundipped Superman and Goku, they didn't even have Goku in Super Saiyan form when he used his Kamehameha, severely, SEVERELY limiting its power. They sourced some stupid people on Goku. His character wasn't even recognizable at all; "hey, you look pretty strong, let's fight!" like what? Then Goku goes and destroys a bunch of buildings? Please, the Death Battle people were clearly both biased and ignorant, despite claiming to be resourceful and true.

Wow! Totally this.

#27 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mortein:

i'd like to point 2 things here :

  • power levels are consistent, and useful to estimate destructive power of characters in DBZ, the only lame excuse that counter-debaters have about this is that power levels are useless according to what Toryama said himself, but since they are good at taking things out of their contexts, they forget that Toryama was talking about Villains. it's the Villains who can't estimate destructive powers using power levels, because they don't know that DBZ warriors can hide their real Ki level and that their special techniques are Ki multiplier.
  • something special about Master Roshi that few may notice, is that he has different level forms, just like SSJ 1, 2, and 3. Master Roshi has 3 forms of Ki levels, the first form where he looks weak with an old skinny body, the 2nd form is the one he used for fights with moderate muscled body, and the 3rd form is his max Ki level that he used to destroy the moon with over muscled body. and so the known PL of 139 is mostly PL of his 2nd form that he used in Budokai, but we don't know what's the real PL of his 3rd max form. that will lead us to the fact that moon busting wasn't made with PL 139 but with a bigger PL, and let's not forget that Kamehamha is a Ki multiplier, so PL of moon destruction is surely above 139 by much.
#28 Edited by KingOfAsh (3618 posts) - - Show Bio

Roshi destroying the Moon had little to do with power levels (this is pre-Z).

I'd say Cell is a star buster or a solar system buster, Buu is a multi-starbuster and Bills is a galaxy buster.

#29 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@morgrim said:

@Mortein: even if vegeta wasnt bigger than earth it stands to reason that frieza in form 1 can destroy multiple planets with ease hence in his final form he is a solar system buster thus by super sayian three they r galaxy busters simple

Just because Frieza could destroy thousands of earth like planets, that doesn't mean he can destroy a solar system. You could fit million earths within a sun, Sun is comprising about 99.86% of the total mass of the solar system.

I seriously doubt Frieza could destroy a sun, and Galaxy consists of hundreds of billions stars, light years away from each other.

Cooler was strong enough to destroy the sun. He was considering it when goku was kamehamehaing him into the sun however he stopped when he realized that he was heading right for it.

#30 Posted by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooler was strong enough to destroy the sun. He was considering it when goku was kamehamehaing him into the sun however he stopped when he realized that he was heading right for it.

But he's not cannon.

#31 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@theamazingbatman said:

Cooler was strong enough to destroy the sun. He was considering it when goku was kamehamehaing him into the sun however he stopped when he realized that he was heading right for it.

But he's not cannon.

But he appeared in GT !

#32 Posted by Mortein (2937 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@theamazingbatman said:

But he appeared in GT !

which also is not canon.

Well it doesn't matter . He is on frieza's level.

#34 Edited by theamazingbatman (1955 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@theamazingbatman said:

But he appeared in GT !

which also is not canon.

king vegeta destroyed many planets easily with just one hand and frieza just one shotted him in his first form and frieza was arguably just using 1% of his power.

#35 Edited by kuartus4 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Master roshi was using the kamehameha (an amplifying attack) when he destroyed the moon. When Goku fired the Kamehameha at raditz, his power level went from 416 to over 924 because the kamehameka momentarily amplified his power. That means master roshi destroyed the moon with a power level of around 400. But we see weighted piccolo who had a PL of 322, destroy the moon with a casual blast, so I'll assume that's the minimum PL needed to blow up the moon.

Now the energy needed to blow up the moon is basically its gravitational binding energy:

http://thepatientcapacitor.com/2009/07/if-stephen-fry-wanted-to-blow-up-the-moon/

which comes out to 1.24 x 10^29 joules

The energy needed to blow up the earth is also basically its gravitational binding energy

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/56633/how-much-energy-would-it-take-to-blow-up-the-earth

which comes out to 2.24 x 10^32 joules.

If you divide the greater amount by the smaller amount, you will see that you need over 1,800 times more energy to blow up the earth than is needed to blow up the moon.

So I'll assume that you need a PL 1800 times larger than a PL of 322 to destroy the moon. If you carry out the multiplication it comes to a power level of 580,000 to be able to destroy the earth. First form frieza blew up planet vegeta with a PL of 530,000, but perhaps he core busted planet vegeta like he did namek. This also means Vegeta could not have blown up the earth with his galick gun in the saiyan saga since his galick gun(an amplification attack) only had a PL of 53,000 max. Though it probably would have caused the planet to be uninhabitable and basically destroyed all life on earth. I guess that sorta counts as destroying the planet.

Now according to Wikipedia the gravitational binding energy of the sun is 6.9 x 10^41 joules. That's comes out to an energy amount 3.08 billion times greater than needed to blow up the earth. I will assume you need a PL 3.08 billion times greater than 580,000 to blow up the sun. That comes out to a Power Level of about 1.8 quadrillion that is needed to star bust.

How strong is Goku? In battle of the Gods, which takes place 4 years after the buu saga, the god of destruction Beerus, comments how he doesn’t think base goku can defeat frieza. Now he also didn’t say Goku would lose either. So let’s be charitable and assume Beerus only sees base Goku stalemating freiza, which would mean they are evenly matched. The official power level for 100% final form frieza is 120 million, so I’ll place Base Goku at 120 million as well. Using the official Super saiyan multipliers of

SSJ=50x base

SSJ2=2x SSJ

SSJ3=4x SSJ2

We have SSJ Goku at 6 billion, SSJ2 Goku at 12 billion, and SSJ3 Goku at 48 billion.

Basically this means that Super Perfect Cell who is only around SSJ2 Goku’s level was bluffing when he said he could destroy the solar system. He’s nowhere near that level. And neither is SSJ3 Goku apparently. Or kid buu who was only around ssj3 goku’s level.

Now the Potara fusion is officially said to multiply the fusion members power level by one another, so that Super Saiyan Vegetto’s power level is SSJ Goku’s PL x SSJ Vegeta’s PL. Now logically both Goku and Vegeta are stronger in Battle of the Gods than in the buu saga since they would have trained in the intervening 4 years like Akira Toriyama said they do during times of peace. So I’ll say that Goku had a PL of 5.25 billion while using SSJ1 in the buu saga and vegeta as well after he received the majin boost which put him dead even with goku, disregarding ssj3. So SSJ Vegetto’s PL is (5.25 billion)^2 which comes out to 27.5 quintillion. And Super saiyan God Goku says that his God powers are beyond anything he had ever known, which includes super vegetto. So Super saiyan God Goku> Super Vegetto. With a power level of over 27.5 quintillion, SSG Goku has more than enough power to destroy the Sun and the entire solar system just as Beerus was remarked to be able to do by his master Whis. So the only star busters and solar system busters around would be Super Vegetto, Super saiyan God Goku, Beerus and Whis

#36 Posted by Jigen879 (483 posts) - - Show Bio

During the fight, Super Buu is angry, and his rage begins to tear holes in reality, threatening to destroy the entire universe, though Vegito manages to stop him. So if majin bu with only his rage can destroy the reality I think his power is more powerful, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rw2cnAshI1Q

But whis say galaxy or solar system about Bills ? I know he say in japanese star system, namely galaxy someone have the dragon ball battle of gods with jap sub please ?

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