Favorite Animated Movies VOTING: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm vs. Batman: Under the Red Hood

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k4tzm4n

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Poll Favorite Animated Movies VOTING: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm vs. Batman: Under the Red Hood (386 votes)

Batman: Mask of the Phantasm 35%
Batman: Under the Red Hood 48%
I love both of them 14%
Sorry, I'm not a fan of either 1%
It brings me great shame to admit I haven't watched both and won't be able to before Friday 1%

Batman has more than a few enjoyable animated features, but two tend to rise above the rest: Batman: Mask of the Phantasmand Batman: Under the Red Hood. 1993's Mask of the Phantasm is a compelling mystery and, despite the older release date, it does indeed hold up to this day! 2010's Under the Red Hood is packed with action and emotion and successfully incorporates quite a few familiar faces.

Both movies need to be watched at least once by any Batman fan (you're doing yourself a major disservice if you don't watch them), but this week, we want you to compare and contrast the two projects. Do you prefer one over the other or do you love them equally? Do you think one story is better than the other? Perhaps a memorable twist or phenomenal action scene won you over? Or maybe the cast will help you make up your mind? Think it through and then cast your vote!

Look, we're well aware that both are excellent and this probably won't be one of the easiest decisions for some of you. Because of that, we feel obligated to point out there's no need to rush to a decision just yet. The poll will remain open until Friday morning (ET), so that should be more than enough time to give this choice a lot of thought or even watch both of these films again. Shortly after we lock the poll on Friday morning, we'll post an updated article with the poll's percentages and feature some of your posts. Yes, that means if you're going to vote, we strongly encourage you to speak your mind in the comments, too! So, which gripping movie will take the top spot, Viners?

Check the homepage this Friday to see which animated movie wins and why. In the meantime, feel free to make future match-up suggestions in the comments below or tell us via Twitter.

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RustyRoy

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Most people who are voting UtRH probably haven't seen MoTP, its even better than TDK.

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anthonyhillman

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Mask Of The Phantasm. It's really no contest. The best thing to come out of the best Batman show (and some say best Batman adaptation) in history, featuring the voices Batman and Joker that most of the world by now associates with those characters.

It's a fantastic mystery that also explores the one time when Bruce Wayne nearly gave up on his promise to fight crime because he had unexpectedly found happiness, and how that was cruelly ripped away from him at the last moment.

And even better... it's an original story, and not just a pretty much note-for-note retelling of a story from the comics.

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DoctorXander

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Both movies are awesome, but straight away I knew I was voting Phantasm,for the following reasons:

Kevin Conroy. Only voice actor to come even close to the awesomeness of his is Peter Weller in DKR, all others are nothing to me

Mark Hamil. Joker has both a great voice and great dialogue in this movie.

Soundtrack. The main theme of Phantasm perfectly captures the darkness that is Batman

Story. Awesome plot, flashbacks are also amazing, its really cool to see them focus on the time shortly before he becomes Batman rather than the standard origin

And this:

Loading Video...

Don't think I hate Red Hood, I really like it, but for me in ranking animated films Phantasm is up with Disney and Pixar's best

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DoctorXander

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#104  Edited By DoctorXander

@the_tree said:

I didn't like Mask of the Phantasm, so Under the Red Hood.

YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR!

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Superteddy

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Just watched Red Hood again, last week, Phantasm does not even come close. Case closed!

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Lvenger

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47% of the current voters haven't seen Mask of the Phantasm.

Seconded, it should be doing better than it is currently.

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@muyjingo said:

@dimitridkatsis said:

Mystery?

More than MOTP?

You're so wrong it hurts.

More adult and emotional? Really?

I'm not wrong, we just disagree. Something many folk on here need to learn...

Yes, I think the mystery of who is this person running around that seems to have been trained by Batman and seem familiar and is killing people is a more intriguing mystery than who is this new vigilante with lethal methods running around.

And yes, I also think UtRH is more adult and emotional. The MPAA at least would seem to consider it more adult with a higher rating. I think the themes are more adult, by which I mean the movie has more adults can relate to in it. As for more emotional...I just found the scenes with Bruce remembering Jason and the Climax at the end to trump anything in MotP.

@muyjingo said:

@dimitridkatsis said:

@muyjingo There was no mystery even if you hadn't read the comic it's basically set from the beginning who RedHood is. Did you figure out who the new vigilante was before it was revealed? Go ahead lie to me. Nothing wrong with disagreeing or saying you have a bad taste. Mask Of the Phantasm was a mystery/thriller/horror/action movie. What about the MPAA? You count your judgement on some ... whatever the MPAA is supposed to be. A man losing the love of his life and the life he could have had over his obsession is less of an adult theme than Batman losing his kid friend and feeling guilty? How much of an adult are you?

I'm not going to reply to you again. Not sure why you're trying to "win" and accusing me of lying, like I said I just have a different opinion to you.

To address your points though:

  • I mean the mystery from the perspective of Batman, not the audience.
  • The MPAA is a consortium of US movie studios who together decide ratings for films released in the US. IE, they decide which rating a film will have.
  • UtRH was about a lot more than just "losing a kid friend". I guess you can't see or comprehend the wider issues, so it's no wonder you don't enjoy the film.

What @muyjingo said. Well played. Totally agree. Good posts.

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dimitridkatsis

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#108  Edited By dimitridkatsis

@hit_monkey well played? That's not even the whole argument and still he's just contradicting himself and acts noble and offended making no points. Just say you liked the movie cause it had more bam bam kiddo. Plus that last confrontation conversation was super gay, just close your eyes and listen Jason say "if he had taken you from me blah blah blah".

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anthonyhillman

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You do realise that the identity of the Red Hood is only a mystery to those who haven't read the near-identical comic it is an adaptation of, right?

And even then, the film's opening scenes makes it pretty obvious by putting so much emphasis on the death of Jason Todd... if it wasn't him, that entire opening sequence would have been pointless.

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Hit_Monkey

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You do realise that the identity of the Red Hood is only a mystery to those who haven't read the near-identical comic it is an adaptation of, right?

And even then, the film's opening scenes makes it pretty obvious by putting so much emphasis on the death of Jason Todd... if it wasn't him, that entire opening sequence would have been pointless.

You know, some mysteries let you know right off the bat who the antagonist is and story is about the protagonist working out what you've already been let in on. Red Hood is a good example of this kinda setup. I don't get what you're driving at?

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Bystander

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detective38

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#113  Edited By detective38

MOTP encompassed everything that was great about the 90s animated series probably my favorite batman movie of all time animated or live action. screw jason people voted for him to die for a reason.

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Sarenis

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Red Hood for fiew reasons :

1) Better animated

2) We get to see Jason Todd for the first time in the animated media

3) It has deeper story - personal failures, vengance, justice, raising form the dead

4) The voice acting and overall monologs/dialogs are far better writen

5) Its superior to many Batman movies - even the last one "Son of Batman" is Inferior

The way they depicted Deathstroke is painfull to watch, and the most interesting fight between Damian and Nightwing is OFFSCREEN - wtf ?!

So yeah - "Under the Red Hood" is the superior movie !

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Zjd106

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Dang, I don't really remember liking Mask of the Phantasm that much. But the love fest that's going on in this thread is definitely on a make me rewatch it

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i_dont_like_comics

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@the_tree said:

I didn't like Mask of the Phantasm, so Under the Red Hood.

blasphemer!! me neither.

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AllStarSuperman

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@zjd106 said:

Dang, I don't really remember liking Mask of the Phantasm that much. But the love fest that's going on in this thread is definitely on a make me rewatch it

Prepare to not be amazed at all. Try not to fall asleep during the climax either.

@allstarsuperman: I have too admit with you here.

Good. lol

@rustyroy said:

Most people who are voting UtRH probably haven't seen MoTP, its even better than TDK.

Why do you hold it so highly? It was quite boring.

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deactivated-64332b810a025

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My personal favorite is Under the Red Hood but in no way was it an easy decision.

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i_dont_like_comics

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@rustyroy said:

Most people who are voting UtRH probably haven't seen MoTP, its even better than TDK.

boy, that's subtle. anyway, i saw it and hated it.

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Darkseid_Prime

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First off this is unfair because B:UTRH is on Blu-Ray and B:MOTP is not. BUT I saw Batman:Mask of the Phantasm in the movie theater on the big screen... so that's.. a draw.. I guess. Secondly, NIGHTWING AND RED HOOD! C'mon, there's no other animated Batman anything where you can get a better lineup of the Bat-Family! Bonus: Jensen Ackles as Jason Todd, Neil Patrick Harris as Nightwing, and Bruce Greenwood as Batman (who is a solid 2nd next to Kevin Conroy and way better than Jason O'Mara), plus Amazo, Joker, Black Mask, Riddler and Ra's al Ghul! Both great but Under the Red Hood gets my vote.

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RustyRoy

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#121  Edited By RustyRoy

@rustyroy said:

Most people who are voting UtRH probably haven't seen MoTP, its even better than TDK.

boy, that's subtle. anyway, i saw it and hated it.

I liked UtRH but for me its nowhere near as good as MoTP.

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RustyRoy

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@zjd106 said:

Dang, I don't really remember liking Mask of the Phantasm that much. But the love fest that's going on in this thread is definitely on a make me rewatch it

Prepare to not be amazed at all. Try not to fall asleep during the climax either.

@cyberwarrior said:

@allstarsuperman: I have too admit with you here.

Good. lol

@rustyroy said:

Most people who are voting UtRH probably haven't seen MoTP, its even better than TDK.

Why do you hold it so highly? It was quite boring.

I didn't find it boring, not for even one moment, it is the most perfect movie to me, everything was great, there's nothing that I hated.

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i_dont_like_comics

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@darkseid_prime: i fail to see what difference it would make if mask of borethasm was on blu-ray. it's still the same movie.

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#124  Edited By MuyJingo

@hit_monkey said:

What @muyjingo said. Well played. Totally agree. Good posts.

Thank you sir. Not really trying to convince anyone, just stating why I think it's the better film.

Like others, I am going to have to rewatch MotP to make sure I'm not being unfair...been a few years since I've seen it.

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@muyjingo: I will be watching it myself this evening. It won't change my mind. Red Hood really impressed me when I first watched it. Phantasm only kept me entertained. I like it but don't rate it all that highly.

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under the red hood its not mystery but it does have an awesome message

"Ignoring what he's done in the past; blindly, stupidly disregarding the entire graveyards he's filled... the thousands who have suffered... the friends he's crippled! I thought...I thought I'd be the last person you'd ever let him hurt. If it had been you that he'd beaten to a bloody pulp, if he had taken you from this world, I would have done NOTHING but search the planet for this PATHETIC PILE OF EVIL DEATH-WORSHIPPING GARBAGE! And send him off to Hell!"

to bad it was retconed, now its just this....

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AllStarSuperman

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@rustyroy said:

I didn't find it boring, not for even one moment, it is the most perfect movie to me, everything was great, there's nothing that I hated.

You just describe Kick-Ass, :P

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lifeofvibe

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#128  Edited By lifeofvibe

No Caption Provided
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lifeofvibe

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lobdell, somebody really should shoot him to the moon

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TheCannon

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Personally I never understood what was so great about Phantasm. It wasn't bad, but I don't think it's amazing like others do. Just okay for me.

Under the Red Hood is my 2nd favorite Batman movie though. I just loved it and have pretty much no complaints with it. So that gets my vote.

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MuyJingo

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#131  Edited By MuyJingo

Rewatched MofP tonight, and nothing altered my opinion.

I think the problem with MofP is that it is primarily a love story. A Batman story should not ever be primarily a love story. There can be secondary love stories or interests, but a Batman story that is a love story first just doesn't work that well.

Also, the phantasm was never really billed as a real threat. Yea, she gave batman a bit of trouble and killed a few people...but how is that really different from a run of the mill Batman rouge? The Phantasm certainly isn't "Gotham's Greatest Enemy" as proclaimed on the DVD cover. Red Hood on the other hand was a real threat...someone who could outrun and outfight Batman, someone who made a helicopter crash into the street as a distraction...someone who was taking control of the entire Gotham underworld...

With UtRH, we have the character of Robin who died due to Bruce's negligence (or so he feels), come back from the dead looking for vengeance and to make a point, with Bruce slowly realizing the impossible has come back to life. That's another thing that's great about that movie...it merges the mystical in perfectly with the semi-real world take on Gotham City.

No idea why people think the mystery in RH is predictable but not so in MotP...they are equally so in my book....

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Hit_Monkey

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@muyjingo: I agree. Watched it last night again, myself and I honestly can't see what the big deal is? Red Hood is a considerably better film. Also, you are right. There is no real mystery in Phantasm. No more so than Red Hood. So all this chat about it being a superior mystery story is totally reaching.

Frankly, I'm miffed at being inferred as some sort of ignorant noob by some viners for liking Red Hood better. Especially after watching it again. After all these shrill claims that it was the 'greatest Batman cartoon of all time'. I was actually a bit disappointed after watching it. Did not live up to the hype on this thread at all.

I think there is a reason that Phantasm wasn't really inducted into the DC universe other than 1 non speaking role in 'Epilogue'. Unlike Montoya or Harley Quinn. Phantasm isn't all that interesting.

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Ninjablade09

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@muyjingo said:

Rewatched MofP tonight, and nothing altered my opinion.

I think the problem with MofP is that it is primarily a love story. A Batman story should not ever be primarily a love story. There can be secondary love stories or interests, but a Batman story that is a love story first just doesn't work that well.

Also, the phantasm was never really billed as a real threat. Yea, she gave batman a bit of trouble and killed a few people...but how is that really different from a run of the mill Batman rouge? The Phantasm certainly isn't "Gotham's Greatest Enemy" as proclaimed on the DVD cover. Red Hood on the other hand was a real threat...someone who could outrun and outfight Batman, someone who made a helicopter crash into the street as a distraction...someone who was taking control of the entire Gotham underworld...

With UtRH, we have the character of Robin who died due to Bruce's negligence (or so he feels), come back from the dead looking for vengeance and to make a point, with Bruce slowly realizing the impossible has come back to life. That's another thing that's great about that movie...it merges the mystical in perfectly with the semi-real world take on Gotham City.

No idea why people think the mystery in RH is predictable but not so in MotP...they are equally so in my book....

Agreed.

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dimitridkatsis

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@muyjingo said:

Rewatched MofP tonight, and nothing altered my opinion.

I think the problem with MofP is that it is primarily a love story. A Batman story should not ever be primarily a love story. There can be secondary love stories or interests, but a Batman story that is a love story first just doesn't work that well.

Also, the phantasm was never really billed as a real threat. Yea, she gave batman a bit of trouble and killed a few people...but how is that really different from a run of the mill Batman rouge? The Phantasm certainly isn't "Gotham's Greatest Enemy" as proclaimed on the DVD cover. Red Hood on the other hand was a real threat...someone who could outrun and outfight Batman, someone who made a helicopter crash into the street as a distraction...someone who was taking control of the entire Gotham underworld...

With UtRH, we have the character of Robin who died due to Bruce's negligence (or so he feels), come back from the dead looking for vengeance and to make a point, with Bruce slowly realizing the impossible has come back to life. That's another thing that's great about that movie...it merges the mystical in perfectly with the semi-real world take on Gotham City.

No idea why people think the mystery in RH is predictable but not so in MotP...they are equally so in my book....

MOTP was primarly a mystery story and don't give me that it was predictable cause you didn't figure it out first time or you just watched it after reading aboot it here or somewhere. It's just the action that was better nothing else and you're using it to wraparound all the rest things that weren't cool about it. Not a love story? Jason seemed very much in love with Bruce : P. Everything he did was about that.

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Timotheus316

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"Hello Mr. Bronski." Me and my nephew would mimic that voice all the time. That's when my nephew was a kid and looked up to me. Haha. I like both movies but Red Hood is a bit more adult I guess while I will always have a place in my heart for Mask of.

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Hit_Monkey

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@muyjingo said:

Rewatched MofP tonight, and nothing altered my opinion.

I think the problem with MofP is that it is primarily a love story. A Batman story should not ever be primarily a love story. There can be secondary love stories or interests, but a Batman story that is a love story first just doesn't work that well.

Also, the phantasm was never really billed as a real threat. Yea, she gave batman a bit of trouble and killed a few people...but how is that really different from a run of the mill Batman rouge? The Phantasm certainly isn't "Gotham's Greatest Enemy" as proclaimed on the DVD cover. Red Hood on the other hand was a real threat...someone who could outrun and outfight Batman, someone who made a helicopter crash into the street as a distraction...someone who was taking control of the entire Gotham underworld...

With UtRH, we have the character of Robin who died due to Bruce's negligence (or so he feels), come back from the dead looking for vengeance and to make a point, with Bruce slowly realizing the impossible has come back to life. That's another thing that's great about that movie...it merges the mystical in perfectly with the semi-real world take on Gotham City.

No idea why people think the mystery in RH is predictable but not so in MotP...they are equally so in my book....

MOTP was primarly a mystery story and don't give me that it was predictable cause you didn't figure it out first time or you just watched it after reading aboot it here or somewhere. It's just the action that was better nothing else and you're using it to wraparound all the rest things that weren't cool about it. Not a love story? Jason seemed very much in love with Bruce : P. Everything he did was about that.

It was predictable. The first time I watched it was clearly very obvious that Andrea was the Phantasm. Honestly. Oh and Jason did love Bruce. Like a son loves his dad. Frankly, this insinuating that Jason was actually attracted to Bruce is really quite puerile. Red Hood was better. It was more emotionally resonant due to the tragic nature of Jason and Bruce's father/son relationship.

The whole plot revolves Batman's greatest mistake and the consequences of that mistake. That aspect is very interesting to watch. The actors do a stellar job of conveying the emotional weight in the confrontation scenes between Jason and Bruce. It was also a better mystery story and before you start. Some mysteries let you know right off the bat who the antagonist is. The story is about the protagonist working out what you've already been let in on and in this case how he deals with the revelation. Red Hood is a good example of this kinda setup.

Phantasm was good but nothing to write home about. I'd even say Sub-Zero was better.

Red Hood was a damn game-changer.

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dimitridkatsis

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@hit_monkey I know it's puerile, I also don't buy you figured out who the Phantasm was and to say it was more emotionally resonaut... you must be joking. MOTP was about how Bruce couldn't escape his destiny no matter how much he wanted, the scene he puts on the mask for the 1st time is better than anything in UTRH.

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Manwhohaseverything

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My reaction after seeing MOTP: Whoa, that was epic. This was darn near flawless. MInd-blown.

After UTRH: That was very good.

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Gracetrack

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#139  Edited By Gracetrack

@ninjablade09 said:

@muyjingo said:

Rewatched MofP tonight, and nothing altered my opinion.

I think the problem with MofP is that it is primarily a love story. A Batman story should not ever be primarily a love story. There can be secondary love stories or interests, but a Batman story that is a love story first just doesn't work that well.

Also, the phantasm was never really billed as a real threat. Yea, she gave batman a bit of trouble and killed a few people...but how is that really different from a run of the mill Batman rouge? The Phantasm certainly isn't "Gotham's Greatest Enemy" as proclaimed on the DVD cover. Red Hood on the other hand was a real threat...someone who could outrun and outfight Batman, someone who made a helicopter crash into the street as a distraction...someone who was taking control of the entire Gotham underworld...

With UtRH, we have the character of Robin who died due to Bruce's negligence (or so he feels), come back from the dead looking for vengeance and to make a point, with Bruce slowly realizing the impossible has come back to life. That's another thing that's great about that movie...it merges the mystical in perfectly with the semi-real world take on Gotham City.

No idea why people think the mystery in RH is predictable but not so in MotP...they are equally so in my book....

Couple of points of contention:

Mask of the Phantasm was certainly not "primarily a love story." It was primarily a murder/mystery. Yes, the love story played a big part in things, but the film as a whole was far from being a love story.

You don't like that the DVD cover billed it as "Gotham's biggest threat"? Sorry, but that's marketing. And besides, the other primary villain in the film (besides Phantasm) was the Joker, and the Joker certainly is one of Gotham's biggest threats. Combine those two threats and I'd say yes... one could certainly bill it as "Gotham's biggest threat" if he or she wanted to.

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MuyJingo

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Couple of points of contention:

Mask of the Phantasm was certainly not "primarily a love story." It was primarily a murder/mystery. Yes, the love story played a big part in things, but the film as a whole was far from being a love story.

You don't like that the DVD cover billed it as "Gotham's biggest threat"? Sorry, but that's marketing. And besides, the other primary villain in the film (besides Phantasm) was the Joker, and the Joker certainly is one of Gotham's biggest threats. Combine those two threats and I'd say yes... one could certainly bill it as "Gotham's biggest threat" if he or she wanted to.

I disagree. I think it was primarily a love story, because the mystery was built upon the love story, not the other way around. Even the reveal was linked to that.

I understand marketing wasn't accurate, but that particular banner has a basis in truth. The Phantasm was hardly a noteworthy threat, so much so that they had to bring in Joker to supplement it.

You could perhaps make the same accusation against UtRH, but I don't think that owuld be as valid because Joker was actually integral to the story.

It was predictable. The first time I watched it was clearly very obvious that Andrea was the Phantasm. Honestly. Oh and Jason did love Bruce. Like a son loves his dad. Frankly, this insinuating that Jason was actually attracted to Bruce is really quite puerile. Red Hood was better. It was more emotionally resonant due to the tragic nature of Jason and Bruce's father/son relationship.

The whole plot revolves Batman's greatest mistake and the consequences of that mistake. That aspect is very interesting to watch. The actors do a stellar job of conveying the emotional weight in the confrontation scenes between Jason and Bruce. It was also a better mystery story and before you start. Some mysteries let you know right off the bat who the antagonist is. The story is about the protagonist working out what you've already been let in on and in this case how he deals with the revelation. Red Hood is a good example of this kinda setup.

Phantasm was good but nothing to write home about. I'd even say Sub-Zero was better.

Red Hood was a damn game-changer.

Agreed on all points.

UtRH may have been predictable, but it was a lot more engrossing to watch Batman solve the mystery. There were actually clues for him to follow and investigate as he pieced it all together, combined with nostalgic flashbacks with only work to highlight the climax.

I actually need to watch Sub Zero. I know it is responsible for fleshing out Mr Freeze (Something Snyder went and undid in the comics...sigh), and I'm expecting to enjoy it more than MotP.

I would go further and say UtRH is the best animated comic book movie that has been made so far. All Star Superman would second, or maybe Crisis on Two Earths. The DCAU movies have been lackluster recently, hoping they get back to the level they were at.

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#141  Edited By Gracetrack

@muyjingo: If it was primarily a love story, then it would have been classified as a "romantic drama" or "romantic thriller." Sorry, but it wasn't. It is generally classified as a mystery/suspense and action/adventure film. You can still choose to view it as primarily a love story. That's up to you. Just know that it isn't.

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#142  Edited By MuyJingo

@omnicrono: Like I said, I disagree. More than that, I think you are objectively, demonstrably wrong.

As I said, the mystery is built upon the love story. The mystery would be basically meaningless without it, as it's just another costumed weirdo killing people.The movie wouldn't not work without the love story, because that is the core of the movie.

It's worth noting that if you trim the love story elements and scenes out, you're left with a 25 minute movie. Which is the length of an episode of TAS, which is basically what MotP is, albeit extended.

It really doesn't matter what it was marketed/classified as, as marketing is often disingenuous.

As you note in your previous post.

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#143  Edited By Gracetrack

@muyjingo: Yep, there is a love story embedded. It is not primarily a love story though. You're confused.

Didn't say it was marketed as a mystery/suspense. I said it has been classified as such. Two separate issues.

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They are both great in their own ways. For me the nostalgia of Phantasm and the dark story of Hood were both great!

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Mask of the Phantasm. Period. I don't even know why we are having this debate?

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@muyjingo said:

@hit_monkey said:

It was predictable. The first time I watched it was clearly very obvious that Andrea was the Phantasm. Honestly. Oh and Jason did love Bruce. Like a son loves his dad. Frankly, this insinuating that Jason was actually attracted to Bruce is really quite puerile. Red Hood was better. It was more emotionally resonant due to the tragic nature of Jason and Bruce's father/son relationship.

The whole plot revolves Batman's greatest mistake and the consequences of that mistake. That aspect is very interesting to watch. The actors do a stellar job of conveying the emotional weight in the confrontation scenes between Jason and Bruce. It was also a better mystery story and before you start. Some mysteries let you know right off the bat who the antagonist is. The story is about the protagonist working out what you've already been let in on and in this case how he deals with the revelation. Red Hood is a good example of this kinda setup.

Phantasm was good but nothing to write home about. I'd even say Sub-Zero was better.

Red Hood was a damn game-changer.

Agreed on all points.

UtRH may have been predictable, but it was a lot more engrossing to watch Batman solve the mystery. There were actually clues for him to follow and investigate as he pieced it all together, combined with nostalgic flashbacks with only work to highlight the climax.

I actually need to watch Sub Zero. I know it is responsible for fleshing out Mr Freeze (Something Snyder went and undid in the comics...sigh), and I'm expecting to enjoy it more than MotP.

I would go further and say UtRH is the best animated comic book movie that has been made so far. All Star Superman would second, or maybe Crisis on Two Earths. The DCAU movies have been lackluster recently, hoping they get back to the level they were at.

I with you on Red Hood being the best DC animated feature so far. I'd also agree that all in all, All-Star Superman is a close second. Though I did love those DC Shorts, The Spectre and Jonah Hex. If they were longer. It would have between those two foe 2nd place for me.

Yeah, it bugs me to how steep the dip in quality the DC features has gotten. It's pretty shoddy. They really need to get it together. DC could do great things with those features. I hope Aquaman is better than the last few ones to come out.

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#147 god_spawn  Moderator

Mask of the Phantasm.

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@hit_monkey I know it's puerile, I also don't buy you figured out who the Phantasm was and to say it was more emotionally resonaut... you must be joking. MOTP was about how Bruce couldn't escape his destiny no matter how much he wanted, the scene he puts on the mask for the 1st time is better than anything in UTRH.

It doesn't really matter that you 'don't buy' that I figured it out the first time round. As, I in point of fact did (it's not hard at all). I'm only offering my opinion and perspective on the movies I watched. I have literally no reason to make up anything? I still think the the dialogue in the confrontation(s) scenes between Bruce and Jason are far more engaging and harrowing than anything in Phantasm. Not to mention the conversation between Joker and Batman/Nightwing in Arkham.

Out with that. The scrip is better. The animation, stunning. The action is the tippity-top. I'd even say that the story is considerably better. I do like Phantasm but it's not in the same league as Red Hood.

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Of the two, I'd go with Red Hood.

But Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, took the personal impact of some of the crazy and added some long term impact into the next generation.

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#150  Edited By Nerd Of A Hero

This is not a easy choice for me to decide. Here are my thoughts and my answer.

Batman: Mask of the Phantasm is an amazing beautiful, charming, theatrical, well-rounded, mystery and somewhat thriller story that really set the bar of how far a 'classic cartoon' can go to make a great story in competing with live action films, but also further explores and build layers in the characterization of Batman/Bruce Wayne, and enforcing the fact that Batman will triumph over the corrupt scum in Gotham City no matter the stakes while looking good doing it. MOTP seemed like a 4 part episode, than a movie. You have Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, and other actors returning their roles from TAS and they all gave a excellent performance. The animation is awesome (thought I prefer TMS studios to make it more fluid and expression like in 'heart of ice' and 'feats of clay: pt 2'), the musical score is the best thing to ever exist and is way 'superior' than UTRH by a mile, awesome action sequences, the visuals is always great to look at with it's noir style and 1940's setting and locations, and we even get to see a new villain - somewhat. I didn't mind the love story since we get to explore Bruce Wayne's back story and how he became Batman in a different perspective as well as his character; Hell, he also never became Batman because he didn't know the 'element' he needed to stop crime and pretty much given up, opted to give money to the police to handle the burden and have a love life with Andrea, but that didn't happened. The movie is also similar to Batman '89 film; hence Joker's outfit like Jack Nicholson, the confrontation with Bats and Joker at a abandoned location, that wonderful 'soul' music at the ending credits, all great. It also took references from Year One to some degree, so in essence MOTP is it's own film. The folks that were involved still delivered and proves that this classic film demonstrates as to why we love the animated series so much.

Then there's Batman: Under the Red Hood, which push the envelop even further. The setting is more modern, cold and darker, filthier, with graffitis on run down buildings and alleys, train stations and freeways, yet still habitable. The animation has gotten better and the character designs were okay-ish. What bothered me was the CGI effects on the vehicles since they seemed clunky and static at some areas, but not all of it. I'm glad they made more cars in that chase scene making the city look like it had people around inside a city and not like other most DCU films where the city seem like a ghost towns whenever the heroes is fighting and as such There's some great musical scores here and there - opting for sapience and action, most noticeably when Bats and Nightwing fight Amazo and when Batman fights Jason, but it's nothing compared to MOTP. The action scenes are better, longer and more detailed. We got a different case to play the roles but still did a awesome job with the characters in UTRH, there's over of 6 villains here, 3 being the most important; Black Mask, Joker, and Red Hood. It's an adaption from a comic but I'd enjoyed this film way more. Red Hood is a force to be reckon with and actually did give Batman a really hard time. It's a great darker, crime story and I can understand why fans love this way more.

Watching these movies simultaneously, I was amazed of how similar they were, yet have their difference.

  • They both have flashbacks showing that the early days were bright, fun and colorful just before circumstances change and has gotten worse, which lead to the events of the current plot. In some ways or another, The Joker is involved and is at fault for the wrong doings he has cause of the antagonist and they're loved ones, thus they seek revenge.

  • In some way or another, The Joker is at fault and has cause his victims suffering and pain to them and their loved ones. They go seek revenge which resolute for a final climax.
  • There's always some mob gang hanging around trying to control Gotham, most get killed off in the crossfire.
  • They both throw in Batman's no killing policy - though I think UTRH reenforced it more than MOTP.
  • Batman isn't happy in the end and thus goes on to patrol or fight crime in Gotham City.
  • The antagonist knows who Batman is, has some sort of relation with him for a while, and in some ways they're costumes and actions does resemble Batman's theatrical appearance and vigilantism. They also resemble some sort of 'ghost' or 'demon' that returns from the past to get back at the wrongdoer that victimize them to begin with. The involvement of family seems to be a big factor.
  • Alfred play's a big role as a great supporting character and helps with Batman/Bruce Wayne's moral and conscious in the events that is happening.
  • MOTP had a love interest while UTRH focused on Batmans' son. Gordon plays a role in MOTP but a cameo in UTRH. MOTP was self-explanatory, still having vague answers but still having more questions that are shrouded in mystery, like who was the Phantasm, how did Andrea get her equipment and what did Joker do to escape from death this time? UTRH did had some mystery but not as heavily, and seems to have things explain in detail yet show that the answers one seeks are not really pleasant. MOTP, Batman had the small pieces but needed the bigger piece, while in UTRH he had the bigger piece but needed the smaller ones.

In conclusion, while I do feel that Batman: Mask of The phantasm is a great movie, I feel that Batman: Under The Red Hood has the stronger story in my opinion only because Red Hood was a stronger villain and motivator, as well as having more characters which made it a bigger, more intense story. Red Hood at least gave joker a beating, demanded as to why Batman has never took the chance to kill the Joker. The Phantasm wasn't really trying to fight Batman when they confronted and probably wouldn't win anyway. Andrea fought Joker but needed Batman's help in a moment where she almost got killed. She knows that Batman would never result to revenge but Jason ask the question 'why not' for him and how far it'll go, he even attempts to be a better Batman. I still love Phantasm's costume though. Red Hood for the win.

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