Hello Comic Vine users, welcome to the sites' second "Roundtable User Discussion". Second? If you don't know what this is then you have been missing out! (Check out the first ever Roundtable User Discussion HERE)
For those of you newbies who have no idea what this is, or those of you who need a refresher, let me explain a bit. A bunch of CV users, like you, virtually met up to talk comic books. That conversation has been posted here for you guys to see, read and enjoy. After you read our conversation be sure to comment below where you can submit your own opinions after reading ours.
I am joined by two of the users who were with me during the last discussion ( xerox_kitty and danhimself) and I also have two new recruits: the lovely Psyentist and the lazy lazystudent!
xerox-kitty: My name's xerox-kitty & I'm a Vine-aholic.
The Psyentist: Hey. I'm The Psyentist. I like comics and the various spheres that are incorporated in comics such as concepts and characters. (I will be abstaining from posting pictures of myself for this... haha.)
danhimself: I'm danhimself and I love comics.
lazystudent: Hi I am lazystudent. Although I am neither a student or especially lazy. That's the irony of the name. Just call me Ryan Or Lazy to keep it short.
Welcome to the "Roundtable" guys. So first of all I want some feedback from the past roundtable. xerox and dan both were there but did you (Psy and lazy) read it?
The Psyentist: Well... to be honest, I skimmed through to the parts that seemed to be of the most interest to me. But it was good stuff.
lazystudent: It was a great read. Good to see something different with some nice interaction between us viners.
danhimself: I loved it. I loved doing it. Like I said in the thread it's so rare to actually just sit down with people and have a comic book conversation where it's not about dissing everything they read.
xerox-kitty: I just remember fighting off the Sleep Monster... but I'm a glutton for punishment who's come back for more.
danhimself: The sleep monster is a dangerous foe.
lazystudent: He maybe dangerous but at least he eats your nightmares, or so I have heard.
The Psyentist: No comment from the psychology major...
Well, we are going to follow a similar road that we took last time and I hope it will be just as interesting as the last. So to start of I want to ask: What was the last comic book, graphic novel or web comic you read?
danhimself: I just finished reading Marvel's 5 Ronin #3.
The Psyentist: The last graphic novel I read was actually V for Vendetta which I FINALLY purchased and read.
lazystudent: Oooh Alan Moore! Psy is talking my language.
The Psyentist: Well, it would make sense Lazy. People think I'm from the UK so I would be speaking your language, almost your dialect even. I shall now avoid a monologue on linguistics...
xerox-kitty: I had a light 'new comics' week last week, so the last thing I read was X-Men: Legacy (and I'm absolutely loving the Age of X!), but I'm looking forward to reading X-Factor tomorrow.
Marvel mutants already? That didn't take long! Hehehe
lazystudent: The last comic-related thing i read was the excellent Batman: Hush graphic novel. I loved the accurate interactions between characters and the range of villains in the book. Its for sure in my to 5 Batman novels now. Says the man who owns 6 lol
In my case the last graphic novel I read was Umbrella Academy Vol. 1. Now let me ask you this, out of all the books we mentioned right now, are any of them kid-friendly?
The Psyentist: V for Vendetta by Alan Moore... not so much.
lazystudent: Alan Moore period is pretty much a no. He does love his adult themes.
danhimself: Not really. The closest any of these books would be to "kid friendly" would be X-Men: Legacy and even then I'm not sure how "kid friendly" it is.
xerox-kitty: Technically the X-Men books are rated for teens. I would recommend them to kids younger than teens, but not little kids. I have friends at work who have babies (or pregnant wives) and I've already been planning on their first comics. I've already started with some Calvin & Hobbes. I'll definitely throw some of Marvel' OZ books in there, and possibly some Pet Avengers & Power Pack. All well written, well-drawn fun stuff.
danhimself: If I were to recommend any books to someone looking for books for their kids then I'd go with Tiny Titans, Darkwing Duck, and Chip N' Dale's Rescue Rangers. I personally love all three of these books.
lazystudent: If we are talking pre-teen kids The Marvel OZ books are exceptional, nice art and great characters. Oh and the Muppets, I still love them and their comics aren't too bad if you like them also.
xerox-kitty: I'd recommend anything that Lil' G-Girl has reviewed too. She's got good taste, so I'd trust her recommendations.
Have you guys have had any experiences where someone asks you if they are kids' books or something along those lines?
xerox-kitty: No, not really. Even when I used to work in a comic shop, I never had any problems. Although, after all these years my Mom still doesn't understand why I collect 'magazines'. Bless her ;)
The Psyentist: Eh no, but I suppose it may have come up where I have discussed gritty and/or deep pieces found within comics that surprised people.
danhimself: Most of my "real life" friends are non comic book readers and their kids are still babies so there's been no recommendations on that end and when I'm at the comic book store I tend to run in grab my books and run out only glancing over the shelves a little bit while I'm there. So there's been no recommendations on that end. If I'm recommending something to someone then it's here on the site in someone's thread.
lazystudent: In terms of trades I would say its tough to pick especially for that age. There's a lot of stuff that could be just a little ahead of that age group. You pitch too high and you can disturb them, to low and they wont be interested.
The Psyentist: I've actually been surprised myself on occasion. I remember when I was first loaned Watchmen. Not the stereotypical comic book, though it does involve masked heroes. I was amazed at the thought, literary merit, language, sexuality, violence, and... blue man parts.
danhimself: I think that's going to be an issue for just about everyone who reads comic books. Comics are still looked at as "kiddie books" and it seems like society as a whole is in no rush to move past that stereotype. So I think that we're always going to have that problem.
danhimself: I think that's something we just need to get used to. As long as there are cartoons, action figures, and pajamas based on comic book characters then they're going to be viewed as juvenile. Plus I don't know about everyone else but most people my age that I know are to busy watching Jersey Shore to bother picking up a book.
lazystudent:Shudders at the mention of Jersey Shore.
The Psyentist: I guess it's just a stereotype. It's a little ironic since these stories are created, written, and drawn by adults. Possibly the fantasy element. Very imaginative. Superheroes are sometimes seen as role models. But they can be so much more.
xerox-kitty: People remember the cartoons from when they were kids. So a lot of their perception will be built around the cheesy fun of Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends or the moody Deco Noir of the Batman Animated Series from the early 90's. As the cartoons have grown more sophisticated, I think people's idea of comics might evolve.
lazystudent: You would think with the current surge in comic-based entertainment that people would of got used to things based on the "comics are for kids" aspect years ago. They don't seem to be bothered when watching the films TV shows etc based on them.
The Psyentist: Which is also odd because there are quite a few adult cartoons out as well.
lazystudent: Exactly being a major Simpsons fan I always argued that the humor in most cases int aimed at children, but the whole it being a cartoon means people perceive it to be that way.
lazystudent: I think the Simpsons has been around so long and has become so iconic that people don't really mind letting kids watch it. After all it's still way safer than Family Guy or South Park in terms of risque jokes. I think the same is said with comics most parents are aware of the major players and wouldn't expect possible negative behavior form them. But with all the main players there's always the possibility you could allow a potentially dodgy issue to be read by your child. The only way to be 100% safe is to read all the issues yourself first.
Marvel (and DC in the near future) has a rating system for books, do you guys think that helps?
The Psyentist: I like ratings. They let me know the kind of material I'm getting into. Does that mean people will pay attention... not necessarily. But in theory, I think ratings help.
xerox-kitty: The ratings wont change a thing. It's like the story a couple of years ago about the mom who was outraged that her son had seen MJ in her bra when he'd checked a Spider-Man trade out of the library. The ratings on comics are small & aren't as clear as those on other media. I don't think they make any difference to non-comic reading parents.
danhimself: I think the rating system will help parents more than anyone else. I think everyone knows about the lady who goes out and buys her kid a comic book only to be surprised that there's violence on the inside. The rating system will allow those irresponsible parents to be even more irresponsible and continue to judge their kid's books and games based on the covers. Personally the rating system means nothing to me. If a book is good then I'm going to read it. I already mentioned that I read Darkwing Duck, Tiny Titans, and Rescue Rangers. All three are meant for children but I enjoy the heck out of them and it's nice to have something light to read after I just got done reading about Joker beating another Robin with a crowbar.
danhimself: Darkwing Duck easily. It's for kids but it's not dumbed down.
lazystudent: The Wizard of Oz marvel books are brilliant. The art and stories are both fantastic. Very good way to show younger kids how awesome a good comic can be. They make me, as an male adult, smile they have magical powers lol.
xerox-kitty: Jut one kid title? That's not fair ;)
Probably something simple yet chaotic & energetic like Calvin & Hobbes.
lazystudent: Hell no I have most of the works of Alan Moore and without trying to sound like some kind of deviant, I like comics that have a bit more of an edge to them. Moore is the master for Edgy action.
xerox-kitty: Only if it calls for it. Sometimes it seems that extreme sex & violence is thrown in for shock value. Like when Marvel MAX was first launched, the first issue of Alias sold out because rampant hormones were excited at the prospect of seeing an established super hero having anal sex with the lead character. I'm not interested in shock value. Alias went on to be a good series, but I demand decent characterization & plot... Not pointless gratuity.
danhimself: I don't mind it as long as there's a purpose behind it being there. I really don't care for Frank Miller's work since I feel that he adds in the violence and foul language into his books just for the sake of adding it in and sometimes even to the point where it messes up a character. Take All Star Batman and Robin for instance, I hated that book. The Batman in that series isn't Batman. He abuses Dick Grayson even going as far as to lock him in the cave with no food or water for days at a time. Definitely not Batman I don't care if it's an alternate reality or not.
The Psyentist: Along with Lazy, I like edge but I like purposeful action and yes, Moore does this quite well. Sexual themes are fine for me, but I am a bit prudish when it comes to sex and nudity. I prefer things be implied.
The Psyentist: I would get violent. Okay, maybe not. I guess I don't really have an example in mind, so... yeah. I would probably facepalm and find it a bit nauseating.
xerox-kitty: The original Power Pack dealt with some pretty tough themes for a kids book. They tackled drug abuse, kidnapping & even child abuse. It was always done in such a style that you'd be sure that your kids were learning from the stories without being traumatized by reading it.
danhimself: If there were a legitimate story where Spider-Man needed to be dark and gritty then I don't think I would have a problem with it. Wait. I know I wouldn't have a problem with it since I loved Grim Hunt.
...and yet Grim Hunt was rated A.
xerox-kitty: I just remembered X-Force: Sex & Violence. When I first read the name it sounded like a bad idea. By the time the series came out, it was so tame in comparison to some of the violence already seen in Kyle & Yost's X-Force, and the reader didn't see any sex. Yet it wasn't disappointing. It was almost a relief that it wasn't hideously over the top with boobs, blood & sperm.
lazystudent: Spider-Man could kind of work as a max tittle if done well, he normally holds back a lot when fighting and is often injured as a result. Making a Spidey MAX title could allow for a bit of blood and maybe offer a slightly more adult look at Spideys life. Thou with the many women in Peters life it could end up a little pervy.
lazystudent: Spidey is never gonna be gritty like Punisher but he could have darker books in which he is not very different but the world around him is darker. Spideys various enemies are all quite nasty and a max title would allow a means of showing their more brutal behavior especially the likes of Carnage and Kaine.
danhimself: The thing is that "dark and gritty" doesn't necessarily mean "sex and gore". Batman is a dark and gritty title by nature but has very little sex and gore.
That's right, sex and gore would be things you would only see when the cover says: EXPLICIT CONTENT. Is Spider-Man fit to have a MAX title?
xerox-kitty: Only in an alternate universe. It was the only way the X-Men had a MAX title.
It took you a while to get another X-Men reference in there Kitty! :P
The Psyentist: Well, I might find it a bit off just because Spider-Man was one of the first comics I read. He always seemed like a decent sort of character. I think with the MAX title it automatically means certain elements will be in it more for shock value. But I don't know. I've never read any MAX.
danhimself: Spider-man wouldn't really have to change though. He could still be that decent character. But like Lazy said a Max title would give his villains a chance to really cut loose. He deals with psychopaths and murderers in just about every issue of Amazing Spider-man but in a Max title we could really see just how insane some of these characters are and then have the comparison of them against Spider-man.
The Psyentist: Psh. No argument. I've been here longer. He's just older. Haha. As far as "adult books," I'm not especially well-read, but since we were discussing it before, works by Alan Moore. It's edgy but also purposeful and thought-provoking.
lazystudent: I concede; Psy won. One recommendation for adult books in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen series. Why? you may ask and I would say because the style of the backdrop is awesome, they have several Easter Eggs related to other written works and the art while gory and sexual in places is just great. Basically its one of the best adult based series I have read.
danhimself: It would be the same recommendation that I give to anyone looking for a book to read. The Walking Dead. It's by far the best title on the shelves today.
xerox-kitty: Since the other guys will recommend Alan Moore, then I'd better come up with something else. Try Cowboy Ninja Viking for a completely original story & vivid art. Or even though I haven't read a lot of it, take a stab at some of Vertigo's Endless characters in Sandman or the different Death mini titles... and Fables too! That ought to keep Aztek happy ;)
So I guess we have reached the end of our discussion. In honor of our Kid vs Adult themed topic I say we end this Roundtable singing the end theme of the Mousketeers!
The Psyentist: FALSE
danhimself: but I don't know the end theme of the Mousketeers... what are the Mousketeers?
lazystudent: I am with Dan I don't think we had that in England. Looks for backing from Kitty
xerox-kitty: Oh, I know what a Mousketeer is but only because of a talking Mickey toy that my aunty brought for me when I was little., but we've never had the theme tune over here in the UK.
Really!? "Now it's time to say good bye to all our Mouseketeers. M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E" No?
lazystudent: If you said Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle is would of been with you but never heard of this lol
So because I need to teach these guys the song I will now end this discussion!
Would you guys care to say your good byes?
The Psyentist: Goodbye, all. *tips hat*
xerox-kitty: Good night, Y'all!
lazystudent: I am so tempted to break into song now just not with a theme I don't know. Perhaps I should just say cheers for letting sit at the round table and walk away into the sunset Bruce Banner style.
danhimself: Wait. It's new comic book day. Why am I talking to people? Gotta go!
Hahaha. I am Geo/sora_thekey now signing off. Bye
"Dan! WAIT FOR ME!!!"
-- Geo ( sora_thekey) 24/7 geek! -- Follow me on Twitter: @sora_thekey
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