Wonder Woman vs Green Lantern Kyle Rayner

@dondave: Hmm and from what I can read here most of that story is Spectre Hal trying to help his old friend get it back together. Marty for instance is supposed to be Hal's son, only that we all know Hal doesn't have one.

get this

wonder woman is faster and stronger.

she will brake any object that kyle puts near her

wonderwoman ftw

It was his ring pretending be his son.

If you have a single example of the Omega Beams destroying planets or disintegrating black holes, please present them --- because I can present them for Kyle's ring at a moment's notice. Writers never really bothered maintaining the Omega Beams at any constant level. And Darkseid has claimed his beams once fired would kill Superman on several other occasions as well, all of which ended in Superman surviving them. So unless you can present those showings, which I know for a fact you can't for the simple reason that they don't exist, this point doesn't really change the fact that one blast from Kyle ends the fight. Wonder Woman doesn't even have the best proven defense here: Traitor's blasts could overpower stars and shred worlds to dust and Kyle tanked them, not to mention surviving an anti-matter wave that annihilated an entire solar system. Wonder Woman has never done any better.

People are used to GL's being dumbed down in Earth-based settings like team scenarios, which is really the only kind of scenario Diana could beat Kyle in ---- because if everyone's bloodlusted, she is almost ludicrously out of her league.

@dondave: The ring isn't there, it's all Hal as the Spectre. Besides, isn't the ring Jordan wore the same one Ganthet passed to Rayner?

@outside_85 said:

@saren: Completely ignoring the Aegis even Darkseid couldnt get through? Right...

If you have a single example of the Omega Beams destroying planets or disintegrating black holes, please present them --- because I can present them for Kyle's ring at a moment's notice. Writers never really bothered maintaining the Omega Beams at any constant level. And Darkseid has claimed his beams once fired would kill Superman on several other occasions as well, all of which ended in Superman surviving them. So unless you can present those showings, which I know for a fact you can't for the simple reason that they don't exist, this point doesn't really change the fact that one blast from Kyle ends the fight. Wonder Woman doesn't even have the best proven defense here: Traitor's blasts could overpower stars and shred worlds to dust and Kyle tanked them, not to mention surviving an anti-matter wave that annihilated an entire solar system. Wonder Woman has never done any better.

People are used to GL's being dumbed down in Earth-based settings like team scenarios, which is really the only kind of scenario Diana could beat Kyle in ---- because if everyone's bloodlusted, she is almost ludicrously out of her league.

Then I am going to dare you post the omnipotence of the GL rings. And let me tell you, I have scans of WW beating down a Khund Green Lantern, but for some reason the CV page wont let me post them.

.. I'd give it to Kyle it think

It was the ring. Actually read the story instead of insisting you're right because of a wiki. Also, no, Hal was buried with his ring.

"Dare" is a somewhat strong word ---- in a context like this, it suggests you're calling a bluff, something that would work if this were hard to do. Here's Kyle destroying a planet and tanking its explosion:

Gallery

Here's Kyle and the anti-matter wave:

Gallery

Here's Kyle building a construct to hold dozens of planets in place:

Gallery

Here's Kyle containing a supernova until Kal Kent shows up to help:

Gallery

I also never claimed the GL rings were omnipotent, but constructing strawmen instead of addressing arguments is part and parcel of the battle forum experience, from my experience, so no one can fault you for that. Or for the implication that one needs omnipotence to beat Wonder Woman. But hey, let's have a good look at all those planet-busting, supernova-tanking feats Wonder Woman's got under her belt.

And when all is said and done, it is super impressive that there exist scans of Wonder Woman beating down a featless Lantern with no relation to Kyle. That's the entire thread right there.

@saren: And now I am going to poke some holes in your feats in relation to this battle:

• Yes Kyle blew up Oa, so he has the power to do that, sadly (for him) Diana happens to be more durable than rock even without the Aegis.
• Not sure about the point of the AM-wave scan is... and I really doubt its the very same one the Anti-Monitor unleashed because he was dead at that point.
• He is reinforcing an already existing structure.
• He's containing a giant computer in the middle of a meltdown.

As for buying and reading Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan... uhh how about no? I don't like Hal at all, that book is undoubtedly more expensive than I'd be prepared to pay for it and the plot of the entire story is posted on the web.

As for strawman arguments, how about this one: Why its it that everytime WW gets into a fight with a GL, she wins?

The Rings being 'the most powerful weapon in the universe' is a gross exaggeration of what they are, because it's down to the individual Lantern to work them properly. And as I've said before: Kyle is even more out of his league than he would normally be because he is bloodlusted.

She's only been in maybe one or two legit fights with a GL, other than that she fought a Sinestro clone and almost lost, granted she was weakened to the point of barely being able to support a bridge...

@ancient_0f_days: Fought Hal in the New 52, headbutted Kyle in A League of One, smacked Gardner into a satellite for being an ass and battered down the Khund Lantern I still wish I could upload. That's 4-0 to Diana by my count.

Headbutting Kyle isn't a fight and smacking Guy isn't a fight either as both sides were not actively combating eachother....fighting Hal in New 52 makes no difference here since Pre-52 is being used here and NOT Nu-52....The Khund Lantern feat is the only real applicable feat you've mentioned.

@ancient_0f_days: Diana wasn't trying to kill either of them.

Well lets see, Hal Jordan didn't change one bit with Flashpoint while most people seem to think Diana was depowered because of it, so yeah, I think the comparison is entirely accurate save old Diana would have it even easier than Johns barbarian.

As for the Khund, it's the only one I need for this. Kyle is bloodlusted, he is not going to be thinking or focusing a lot under that and that's how a Khund normally is.

Doesn't matter, they weren't actual fights or wins and you know it.

Hal didn't but that is another version of Wonder Woman altogether...it doesn't matter, drop it.

No it's not...you made it seem like she casually takes on GLs, this Khund is some no name featless GL who WW fought, the only GL she's actually had a serious altercation with...it is unsubstantial

Here we go:

The fight goes on for most of the issue, but Diana is the winner even after she lets him take a number of free swings at her with a giant spiked gauntlet.

Bloodlust does not mean one loses intellect. It just means that one is fighting to draw blood or kill.

@outside_85: We've all seen this.....once again...unless this Khund is as powerful as Kyle, it barely matters especially since he has no feats and is never seen again before or after that issue.

@outside_85 said:

Here we go:

The fight goes on for most of the issue, but Diana is the winner even after she lets him take a number of free swings at her with a giant spiked gauntlet.

Wasn't that a rookie Green Lantern? Can someone confirm whether it was a rookie GL or not? Besides, when she tried the peaceful option and left herself open to attack, the featless and possibly rookie Lantern actually made Diana bleed. That's very telling of her durability against a GL. Take into consideration that Kyle is vastly more experienced, skilled and powerful with the ring and well regardless of what's happened between Diana and a Green Lantern, I can't see Wonder Woman taking a majority against a ring slinger like Kyle Rayner.

@lvenger said:

@outside_85 said:

Here we go:

The fight goes on for most of the issue, but Diana is the winner even after she lets him take a number of free swings at her with a giant spiked gauntlet.

Wasn't that a rookie Green Lantern? Can someone confirm whether it was a rookie GL or not? Besides, when she tried the peaceful option and left herself open to attack, the featless and possibly rookie Lantern actually made Diana bleed. That's very telling of her durability against a GL. Take into consideration that Kyle is vastly more experienced, skilled and powerful with the ring and well regardless of what's happened between Diana and a Green Lantern, I can't see Wonder Woman taking a majority against a ring slinger like Kyle Rayner.

It wasn't a Rookie Lantern

@dondave: Thanks for the confirmation. It's still a featless one off Lantern though.

@dondave: That was IIRC Procanon Kaa correct?Don't remember much on him

Yeah, he hasn't had that many appearances

just because wonder woman has not done these things does not mean she's less powerful. she was brought up to fight the greek gods not to save the universe. plus would he have done this alone. there would be lot's of other lanterns helping. and yes it does matter about the them 2 fighting together in a justice league story. because when they go face to face its the most important proof. and wonder woman is stronger and much faster she owns

Unless bloodlust means Kyle uses his power to the fullest (the ring doesn't make him smarter as shown against Hitman), Wonder Woman has this in a good one.

The Khund is wearing the exact same type of ring as Kyle, he's about as different from Kyle as two human soldiers with M16's are different from one another.

That's your interpretation. And not correct, since people usually give Bloodlusted and willingness to kill as different settings.

@outside_85: Bloodlust usually means the character is doing everything they can to kill their opponent. No holding back. It doesn't mean they're stupid. It also doesn't serve an argument to downplay what a character is capable of by trying to finangle the setup. There's nothing stopping a bloodlusted Kyle from doing any of the feats presented in this thread.

@outside_85: The difference between Kyle and this lantern is that Kyle has shown to be superior through feats.2 Human soldiers with M16's?Well what if one soldier has shown average skills in shooting and another to be a Master Marksmen with it?Guess which one is Kyle?Kyle wins here

@comicstooge said:

@givemefreedom said:

No challenge at all, Wonder Women wins.

Kyle restrained Ultraman for hours. He's well within Wonder Woman's strength league.

He should have just went through the cracks between the fingers of the constructs, which are not even cracks seeing as how big they are, lol.

@reaverlation: With what? He doesnt have anything Diana cant counter, and she's much faster, she can easily break his constructs and because of the tiara she can kill him at range more easily than he can try and kill her.

@dredeuced: Thats your interpretation.

@outside_85: As shown by @saren,Kyle can easily withstand her attacks while Kyle would have no trouble encasing her in a bubble and teleporting,shown by @dondave,with her to the sun and dropping her in it.Kyle wins

@reaverlation: A) Lanterns cant teleport, those scans are the Spectre's doing. B) I proved Diana was not slowed down by hard light constructs.C) Her combat speed is still faster than he can see or move, so expect him to be pulp 0.1 sec into the fight. You have nothing.

@outside_85: A)Lanterns can teleportation easily as shown already

B)She wasn't slowed down by constructs that weren't Kyles who,as already shown,can stop her with his constructs easily

C)Kyle can easily keep up and take her hits while he can blast her with attacks that blow up planets(that was him as a rookie too by the way)

Exactly. Its like I said a bloodlusted wonder woman won't use skill.

@outside_85: You can't just interpret it whichever way benefits your side. You've been on this forum long enough to know what the modus operandi is for bloodlusted characters. If you think Wonder Woman wins this fight then you also don't need to belittle the other side of the argument by introducing subjective handicaps.

I have to admit, it is rather refreshing that Lantern is getting his due here. That ring is deadly in the right hands.

@reaverlation: Wonder Woman has easily broken Green Lantern constructs before and even broke through Hal's constructs in the New 52. Regardless, Kyle won't be able to keep up with Wonder Woman since she has kept up with Zoom before and has combat speed on par with Superman. In the New 52, Batman has said that the only contigency to take down a bloodlusted Wonder Woman is Superman. I'm sure we can all agree that normal Superman could take down a bloodlusted Green Lantern if the need arose.

Kyle with a little trouble.

@viperking: Congrats at using New 52 Wonder Woman to show she can break constructs of New 52 Hal's constructs. Kyle has held more dangerous things in his constructs than her (supernovas,black holes,etc.).She hit a Zoom who purposely slows down so Diana can register him(as Wally has trouble seeing Hunter)Still using New 52 smh.Green Lanterns have fought Superman easily(kilowag physically took down Superman)without trouble.Kyle can handle Superman as well

@reaverlation: Apologies for not clarifying. I'm saying both pre-Flashpoint Wonder Woman and post-Flashpoint Wonder Woman could defeat Kyle. Pre-Flashpoint Diana has broken through Green Lantern constructs just like post-Flashpoint Diana has. Since we are supposed to use the most modern incantantions of the character, then post-Flashpoint Wonder Woman should be the opponent. However, the OP is three years and eights months ago, when the Flashpoint hadn't even started.

Does it matter that Zoom was being cocky? Zoom can alter time relative to himself, so Wonder Woman tagging him is a feat in itself. Her combat speed is on par with Superman. She has been shown to run comfortably next to Jesse Quick, another speedster, and is almost fast enough to enter the Speed Force.

When did Kilowag or any Green Lanterns take down Superman easily? As I recall, Superboy-Prime killed more than thirty Green Lanterns, and both Superman and Wonder Woman (bloodlusted) are in the same weight class.

@viperking: So you're saying Diana is faster than Wally West,who couldn't see Zoom and tag him unless Zoom purposely slowed himself down?Superboy Prime is way stronger and more durable than Superman or Diana so using Prime doesn't help you at all.All Lanterns from Hal,Kyle,John,Kilowag,etc. have given Superman trouble.I'm done here for the fact that so many people lowball Lanterns to the point where they can't hang with people in Superman's class.Argue with someone else about this topic

Kyle. The guy arguably has the best green lantern feats pre52. Current Kyle stomps both versions of WW.

@reaverlation: You're completely misinterpreting everything I say, whether deliberately or not, I don't know. I said Diana tagging Zoom is a feat and shows that her speed is on par with Superman. If Zoom was going as slow as she was with Diana, Wally could have easily tagged Zoom. However, I'm saying that anybody even touching Zoom is a feat. When Zoom was going against Wally, he didn't take any chances and easily speedblitzed Wally.

So you're saying a bloodlusted Superman or Wonder Woman isn't in the same league as Superboy-Prime? Superboy-Prime is basically a bloodlusted amped version of Superman. Both Superman or Wonder Woman's blows could hurt Superboy-Prime, especially if bloodlusted.

You keep saying that Green Lanterns have taken Superman but have never shown me where or when this happened. You can be as rude as you want but I simply want to see when any Green Lantern "fought Superman easily" and where "Kilowag physically took down Superman."

You keep picking and choosing which questions, arguments, to answer to and which ones to ignore. I've already shown you that Wonder Woman has an advantage in speed and has bust through Green Lantern constructs.

"I'm done here for the fact that so many people lowball Lanterns to the point where they can't hang with people in Superman's class.Argue with someone else about this topic"

I never said Kyle couldn't :hang with Wonder Woman." I said Wonder Woman would win. She's a tremendously strong, agile, and durable Greek demigoddess whom Batman said only Superman could defeat. If you provided examples of Green Lanterns pummeling Superman and slamming him around, I would be more likely to change my mind but since you haven't, I have no reason to.

Neither Wonder Woman or Superman are in Superboy Prime's weight class, they both needed help to fight him.

As for Diana supposed Speed Advantage, Kyle just uses the Speed Force to drain her of it.

@viperking: I'm on my phone so I'm limited. This is John not just taking on Superman but the justice league as well.Can't post Kilowog vs Superman but as I've said Lanterns have taken on Superman.Zoom doesn't take chances with Wally as Zoom is another league of speed compared to Wally even when Wally is bloodlusted so using the Zoom feat for Diana doesn't help you here.You haven't shown anything for Diana at all but make claims about Diana beating Kyle when there has been more shown for Kyle beating to stomping Diana. That contingency plan only counts for new 52 and false(Barry can beat Diana and so can Aquaman so that plan doesn't mean anything).Kyle wins here and Diana loses

@reaverlation: What title is this scan from? What is the name of the story arc too? Also, I don't see the Justice League members even attacking John. Only John is attacking them.

You know what, you can go ahead and forget anything about that Zoom feat. It's like Deathstroke tagging Flash. It's a feat but it's also plot-induced stupidity, especially since Zoom isn't a speedster. In fact, let's forget everything I used for post-Flashpoint Wonder Woman.

However, Wonder Woman was almost fast enough to enter the Speed Force and was able to keep up with Jesse Quick, another speedster, and catch him with a rope. Wonder Woman was even fast enough to intercept Batman after flying to the sun and going back to the earth. Also, Wonder Woman was able to keep up with Superman when he was under mind control, which shows that her combat speed is on par with Kal-El. Batman has also implied that Wonder Woman's combat speed is even better than Superman in Shattered God. Strength-wise, she's still quite impressive. In fact, she's even pummeled Doomsday before. She took out an exact clone of Doomsday with one punch. In Superman: Sacrifice, Superman punches Wonder Woman so hard into space, she makes a crater on impact. She easily shakes it off and keeps on fighting. During JLA vs. Titans, she helps other powerhouses move the moon back into orbit. I can name tens of other Wonder Woman feats but I personally think this shows that her strength, speed, and durability is too much for Kyle.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15711961/WWPlus1JesseQuick-33_zpsd9d6bf64.jpg.html

http://s477.photobucket.com/user/fangirl102/media/SupermanBatman056002-1.jpg.html

http://s477.photobucket.com/user/fangirl102/media/SupermanBatman056003-1.jpg.html

http://s477.photobucket.com/user/fangirl102/media/SupermanBatman056004-1.jpg.html

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67985/1301918-wonder_woman_faster2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GyKxbA9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WScDsql.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XwIsXwa.jpg

@reaverlation: John was amped by Parallax in those scans for the record. Guy took out the entire JSA and JLA when possessed by Parallax. Is that something that's within his normal capabilities? I agree that Kyle wins here but scans from Rebirth aren't the most reliable evidence given the amp Parallax was giving to the possessed Lanterns.

@viperking: For the record, Superman's bloodlusted punch actually KOed Wonder Woman. The scan clearly says that she blacks out and only the heat of re-entry wakes her up. She doesn't just shake it off, she's temporarily KOed by it which isn't surprising given how many times Diana has admitted physical inferiority to Superman.

I wish there were some way to frame comments for future reminiscence, because is this comment legitimately claiming that Diana can take planet-busting attacks because she's more durable than rock? Really? I don't understand it at all, and I hope for your sake you don't understand it either. Colossus is more durable than rock. Namor is more durable than rock. Luke Cage, Iron Man, Cyborg, Aquaman and She-Hulk are all more durable than rock. Superboy is more durable than rock! Can we thus infer that they'd all be peachy after the Earth explodes around them?

You realize that the destruction of a planet isn't as simple as "breaking rocks"?

• Not sure about the point of the AM-wave scan is...

The point is terribly simple: The wave destroyed a solar system. The wave was thus a very powerful attack the likes of which Wonder Woman has never faced before. The wave did not destroy Kyle because the defense he offered to it was greater than its capacity to destroy. See?

and I really doubt its the very same one the Anti-Monitor unleashed because he was dead at that point.

Who said it came from the Anti-Monitor? Why would it need to come from the Anti-Monitor? He has never had an exclusive copyright on any and all anti-matter waves.

Seriously, why even mention the Anti-Monitor?

• He is reinforcing an already existing structure.

He's reinforcing the body of the structure, not the arms that are holding the planets in place and in connection to the structure.

• He's containing a giant computer in the middle of a meltdown.

The giant computer in question was a living star whose explosion most certainly had the destructive capacity of a supernova, because after it was done, Flash informed Kyle that people were actually etching the sun-caging feat into the history books.

As for buying and reading Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan... uhh how about no? I don't like Hal at all, that book is undoubtedly more expensive than I'd be prepared to pay for it and the plot of the entire story is posted on the web.

Don't buy it, don't read it, not really an issue for me. But in that same breath, while people are pointing out details of the story that have been derived from actually reading it, don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you try and refute the truth by quoting a wiki.

As for strawman arguments, how about this one:

That is not what a strawman argument is.

Why its it that everytime WW gets into a fight with a GL, she wins?

I suppose it was a different Amazon that a berserk John Stewart quickly stomped after Parallax drove him insane, then? Perhaps the answer to that question lies in reading more WW.

The Rings being 'the most powerful weapon in the universe' is a gross exaggeration of what they are, because it's down to the individual Lantern to work them properly

A point that was never brought up, disputed or had any relevance to anything I said.

And as I've said before: Kyle is even more out of his league than he would normally be because he is bloodlusted.

I'll assume this makes sense to you, because I doubt it makes sense to anyone else. It certainly doesn't to me, but others' mileage may vary.

He wasn't amped by Parallax. He was just influenced by Parallax, like Hal was when he first turned against the Corps. Not to mention Parallax was still inside Hal Jordan during Rebirth.

Guy one shotted the JLA and JSA members with him including Alan Scott and Martian Manhunter, who's tanked worse than what Guy can throw out. And Superman's never been one shotted by a Lantern before so forgive me for feeling sceptical that they can achieve those feats under their own power.