Spider-Ladies vs Asgardian Ladies

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#1  Edited By owie  Moderator

Jessica Drew and Julia Carpenter

vs

Sif and Valkyrie

Round 1: Jessica and Julia have all their powers. Val and Sif are standard and have their swords.

Round 2: Jessica and Julia do not have their venom blast, pheromones, or psi-webs (but Julia does retain her prescience). Val and Sif are unarmed.

Morals off. Battle takes place in the woods of the Michigan Upper Peninsula, starting at 20'. Win by any means.

Clearly the Asgardians are stronger and more durable than the Spider-Ladies. The Spider-Ladies are, I think, clearly much faster and more agile than the Asgardians, and have a couple extra powers on top of that (at least in round 1). Who wins and why?

Jessica Drew
Jessica Drew
Julia Carpenter
Julia Carpenter
Sif
Sif
Valkyrie
Valkyrie

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round 1 can most likely go to the spiders considering they can bind the ladies with psy-webs and stuff.

round 2 can go either way but im leaning towards the asgardians due to experience and being at least twice as strong as the spiders

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gunmetalgrey

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#3  Edited By gunmetalgrey

I doubt any form of binding will work, knowing how skilled the Asgardian ladies are with a blade. I also have no idea whether or not pheromones even work on Asgardian physiology, so venom blasts seem to be the only thing that I'm sure will have any sort of effect and even that would be hard to gauge considering their durability. I'm not sure how the Spider ladies can win here.

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_Cerberus_

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I doubt any form of binding will work, knowing how skilled the Asgardian ladies are with a blade. I also have no idea whether or not pheromones even work on Asgardian physiology, so venom blasts seem to be the only thing that I'm sure will have any sort of effect and even that would be hard to gauge considering their durability. I'm not sure how the Spider ladies can win here.

Mmmm dat pheromones

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#5 owie  Moderator

I doubt any form of binding will work, knowing how skilled the Asgardian ladies are with a blade. I also have no idea whether or not pheromones even work on Asgardian physiology, so venom blasts seem to be the only thing that I'm sure will have any sort of effect and even that would be hard to gauge considering their durability. I'm not sure how the Spider ladies can win here.

Julia's webs are psionic in nature, so they're not quite like binding with normal webbing. But they can still be destroyed physically, so you're right that the Asgardian ladies may be able to cut their way out.

One other power the Spider-Ladies have is Julia's precognition, which isn't exactly like spider-sense, but is a fairly good approximation of it. So she at least should be able to dodge pretty well.

It is certainly a question as to whether the Spider-Ladies (both more or less 10 tonners) can hurt the Asgardians (Sif--30 tons, Val-45 tons) through punches and kicks. Certainly the Asgardians' durability would absorb much of their blows--but would it absorb all of it? There must be some good examples out there of similar strength vs durability matchups but I can't think of any offhand. In general though, standard Asgardians can easily be hurt by other standard Asgardians wielding swords and clubs and whatnot, so I wouldn't think they're totally beyond the Spider-Ladies' capabilities.

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spidey team wins

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#7  Edited By jashro44

From what I have seen spider-woman can hurt them with venom blasts but is Sif still a beserker? IIRC she has a healing factor now right? Not sure if they can put Sif down.

I think they can hurt them with there fists as well. But Sifs healing factor complicates things a bit IMO (if she still has it).

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#8  Edited By gunmetalgrey
@owie said:

One other power the Spider-Ladies have is Julia's precognition, which isn't exactly like spider-sense, but is a fairly good approximation of it. So she at least should be able to dodge pretty well.

Julia's precog works more like random visions of the future. Not only are they mostly vague, they're also not always completely accurate. It's hardly like spider-sense wherein she would know exactly when or from where a specific attack will be coming.

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#9 owie  Moderator

@jashro44 said:

From what I have seen spider-woman can hurt them with venom blasts but is Sif still a beserker? IIRC she has a healing factor now right? Not sure if they can put Sif down.

I think they can hurt them with there fists as well. But Sifs healing factor complicates things a bit IMO (if she still has it).

At the end of the berzerker arc, they basically said it wasn't a new magic amp for her, it just changed her mindset. So she really isn't any different now than she was before, except for perhaps being a bit more of a serious warrior (not that she wasn't before).

@owie said:

One other power the Spider-Ladies have is Julia's precognition, which isn't exactly like spider-sense, but is a fairly good approximation of it. So she at least should be able to dodge pretty well.

Julia's precog works more like random visions of the future. Not only are they mostly vague, they're also not always completely accurate. It's hardly like spider-sense wherein she would know exactly when or from where a specific attack will be coming.

That's generally true, but I think it does help her in mid-fight to some degree. She can get pictures of what's going to happen and act on it. Definitely not as accurate as Pete's spidey sense though.

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jashro44

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@owie: My mistake. I thought there was mention of a healing factor.

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#11 owie  Moderator

@jashro44 said:

@owie: My mistake. I thought there was mention of a healing factor.

I think they sort of made it out that way and then backpedalled a bit. But all Asgardians have a healing factor to some degree. Congrats on 10,000 pots by the way.

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@owie said:

@jashro44 said:

@owie: My mistake. I thought there was mention of a healing factor.

I think they sort of made it out that way and then backpedalled a bit. But all Asgardians have a healing factor to some degree. Congrats on 10,000 pots by the way.

Thank you I didn't even notice until now!

If that is the case though I think the ladies can win both rounds. I think spider-womans venom sting will be a problem and I also think they can hurt the asgardians with there strikes. Thrown in with there greater speed and agility I see them winning both rounds.

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New_World_Order

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The Asgardians stomp.

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@jashro44: Why are the Spider-Ladies' speed and agility held as such a big advantage over the Asgardians? Being Asgardians, they have superhuman speed and agility too, though not to the Spider-Ladies' degree. These aren't your normal slow and lumbering bricks. They're also far more accomplished and experienced (by thousands of years) fighters. And they're using swords and it's morals off, so one solid hit takes either of the Spiders out. Any not-so-solid hit would still maim or at least slow them down considerably. It's not a stomp, but I'd say the Asgardians definitely win.

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@jashro44: Why are the Spider-Ladies' speed and agility held as such a big advantage over the Asgardians? Being Asgardians, they have superhuman speed and agility too, though not to the Spider-Ladies' degree. These aren't your normal slow and lumbering bricks. They're also far more accomplished and experienced (by thousands of years) fighters. And they're using swords and it's morals off, so one solid hit takes either of the Spiders out. Any not-so-solid hit would still maim or at least slow them down considerably. It's not a stomp, but I'd say the Asgardians definitely win.

I know they are faster then the average bricks but I don't think they are as fast as the 2 spiders. Julia was able to keep up with spider-man (granted he didn't have his spider-sense but he did have his way of the spider), and Peter was the one who didn't think he could beat her. Spider-woman is fast enough to dodge lasers, and out pace a pole she threw with her 7 ton strength. I can see spider woman just keeping her distance and spamming her venom sting which has caused class 100's pain in the past. Julia will hold out long enough to distract her enemy while spider-woman beats either Sif or Valkaryie.

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gunmetalgrey

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@jashro44: And like I said, they're very smart fighters and they have their swords, they can block the venom just as easily as Jessica can shoot it. At most for the Spiders, it will end up a stalemate if they keep staying at a distance.

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@jashro44: And like I said, they're very smart fighters and they have their swords, they can block the venom just as easily as Jessica can shoot it. At most for the Spiders, it will end up a stalemate if they keep staying at a distance.

I don't doubt there smart but I don't really see that helping them. Neither Julia or Jessica are dumb, and additionally its impossible for them to catch Julia off guard. Her precognition lets her know exactly whats going to happen before it does. She all ready knows the out come of the fight before the fight even begins so I don't see how they will out smart someone that is going to know all of there moves so far in advance.

On the subject of blocking venom blasts I don't see how they can do that with swords alone. The venom blasts radius is too big for that. Additionally I am pretty sure venom blasts move at greater speeds then bullets and neither of the asgardians have the reflex feats to block venom blasts too my knowledge even if venom blasts didn't have a huge area of effect. Eventually they will be knocked out by Jessicas venom blasts.

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gunmetalgrey

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@jashro44 said:

I don't doubt there smart but I don't really see that helping them. Neither Julia or Jessica are dumb, and additionally its impossible for them to catch Julia off guard. Her precognition lets her know exactly whats going to happen before it does. She all ready knows the out come of the fight before the fight even begins so I don't see how they will out smart someone that is going to know all of there moves so far in advance.

Since when was her precog at that level? As of her relatively recent Scarler Spider appearances, she could only make out bits and pieces of visions and she wasn't exactly sure what was going on.

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@jashro44 said:

I don't doubt there smart but I don't really see that helping them. Neither Julia or Jessica are dumb, and additionally its impossible for them to catch Julia off guard. Her precognition lets her know exactly whats going to happen before it does. She all ready knows the out come of the fight before the fight even begins so I don't see how they will out smart someone that is going to know all of there moves so far in advance.

Since when was her precog at that level? As of her relatively recent Scarler Spider appearances, she could only make out bits and pieces of visions and she wasn't exactly sure what was going on.

Which issue are you talking about? IIRC she tried to warn Kaine from Annebelle but I am a little hazy on the details. I recall Peter stating that she all ready knew the outcome of there fight as soon as shang chi told them to start. She also was the one who talked shang chi into training spider-man in order to prep him for spider-island (because he needed the help). She didn't know how spider-island was going to end but she knew it was going to happen weeks in advance IIRC.

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#21  Edited By New_World_Order

@jashro44: Sif, and Valkyrie are pretty agile, and extremely skilled with a sword. There also somewhere around from a 30-50 tonner, so one punch is going to give em pain.

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@jashro44: Sif, and Valkyrie are pretty agile, and extremely skilled with a sword. There also somewhere around from a 30-50 tonner, so one punch is going to give em pain.

All though they are extremely fast and agile they aren't on the spiders level in this regard. As for skill IIRC Jessica was trained by taskmaster (I need to double check that) and Julia has precognition which is better then spider-sense so it balances out. I see Jessica using her venom blasts to KO the asgardians (they have made class 100's scream in pain in the past).

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New_World_Order

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@jashro44: Now that I think about it' didn't Jessica hurt Hulk ?

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#24  Edited By gunmetalgrey

@jashro44: I can't seem to find the exact issue, but it was about that warning. The scene was her going out with her daughter and suddenly getting the vision in the middle of the sidewalk. She couldn't tell what it was exactly about Annabelle that Kaine should look out for, just that she was an element in a plot by the bigger threat.

That's another thing about her precog. It comes at random and it's never, or at least not usually, of something in the immediate future. She could tell the outcome of a fight weeks ahead, but not the details of the fight, so it really isn't anything like spider-sense.

Assuming that she did have a vision weeks ahead of this particular fight would be unfair as it is not stated in the OP that they have prep.

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@jashro44: Now that I think about it' didn't Jessica hurt Hulk ?

I was unaware of that. I would assume a showing like that would be PIS all though it is a pretty powerful attack.

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#26  Edited By jashro44

@jashro44: I can't seem to find the exact issue, but it was about that warning. The scene was her going out with her daughter and suddenly getting the vision in the middle of the sidewalk. She couldn't tell what it was exactly about Annabelle that Kaine should look out for, just that she was an element in a plot by the bigger threat.

That's another thing about her precog. It comes at random and it's never, or at least not usually, of something in the immediate future. She could tell the outcome of a fight weeks ahead, but not the details of the fight, so it really isn't anything like spider-sense.

Assuming that she did have a vision weeks ahead of this particular fight would be unfair as it is not stated in the OP that they have prep.

I vaguely remember the scene you are talking. That happened in the rodeo issue right? I will look through my issues tomorrow, all though this could be because the Annebelle thing (whatever it is) is too far in the future to really get a clear view I guess.

I am not trying to argue she will be aware of the fight weeks in advance but I am saying that as soon as the fight begins she is going to know exactly what happens (its the only way we can really stay true to her powers and keep this under the OP rules IMO). I just brought up her knowing about spider-island so far in advance as a showing for how advanced her precog is. I think her precog is less random when it is life threatening matters to her and the people around her. Like she was able to warn spider-man about a greater danger after spider-island (doctor octopus stealing his body), and as I mentioned earlier she knew all of Peters moves. She also knew that Peter was going to get smacked around by his friends when he tried to help them in spider-island.

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#27  Edited By New_World_Order
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#28  Edited By owie  Moderator

@jashro44 said:

@gunmetalgrey said:

@jashro44: And like I said, they're very smart fighters and they have their swords, they can block the venom just as easily as Jessica can shoot it. At most for the Spiders, it will end up a stalemate if they keep staying at a distance.

I don't doubt there smart but I don't really see that helping them. Neither Julia or Jessica are dumb, and additionally its impossible for them to catch Julia off guard. Her precognition lets her know exactly whats going to happen before it does. She all ready knows the out come of the fight before the fight even begins so I don't see how they will out smart someone that is going to know all of there moves so far in advance.

On the subject of blocking venom blasts I don't see how they can do that with swords alone. The venom blasts radius is too big for that. Additionally I am pretty sure venom blasts move at greater speeds then bullets and neither of the asgardians have the reflex feats to block venom blasts too my knowledge even if venom blasts didn't have a huge area of effect. Eventually they will be knocked out by Jessicas venom blasts.

I don't personally think they could block/deflect the venom blasts with a sword due to the nature of the energy, but back in the day Val actually used to spin her sword around in a circle and block machine gun fire and flame attacks etc. on multiple occasions. It was kind of a signature move. I can find the scans if you like.

One other detail I hadn't thought of originally is that Jessica could theoretically just fly up in the air and rain down venom blasts all day long, since the others can't fly. They could throw stuff at her of course but I think she could dodge pretty easily.

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Val would have a chance to solo but the asguard ladies win a good battle.

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@owie: I would like to see scans. Its not that I don't believe you but mainly so I have some for future use encase.

I was thinking about Jessica flying up in the air but I would imagine the asgardians can just jump up and leap after her. Unless she were to fly really high up in the air.

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#32 owie  Moderator

@jashro44 said:

@owie: I would like to see scans. Its not that I don't believe you but mainly so I have some for future use encase.

I was thinking about Jessica flying up in the air but I would imagine the asgardians can just jump up and leap after her. Unless she were to fly really high up in the air.

Sure, here you go. The first one is against Burner, who could shoot continuous flame blasts, although in this image it looks like it's just tufts of small flames. I felt like I had one of machine gun fire instead of the pistols in the second one, I'm not sure if I can't find it or if I'm imagining it. I've seen her do it other times besides these, in any case, in the old Defenders volume. The third one is recent and I just found it in her image page, I don't know the context.

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@owie: Thank you. Those scans are very impressive. I think the hand to hand round might be a bit closer if they are both that fast.