Shadow Cabinet Neo VS X-Men Villians

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HeraldofGanthet

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#1  Edited By HeraldofGanthet
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iconrocket123

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#3  Edited By iconrocket123

@heraldofganthet: Ohhh this fun...Well, it can go either way..but I already see Apocalypse and Dracula fighting and the heroes picking them off while they weak. Then they can take dow Moses Magnum who isn't much work. Omega red lol, he is done before this even starts, he gets knocked out cold by Steel. The others just focus fire on Juggy's helmet, when they get it off it's a done deal..or twilight sucks them inside..then it's over..

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WarlordEternal

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I wanna say the Shadow Cabinet.

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pooty

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@heraldofganthet: stalemate. Monica takes out most of the team in seconds. But she cant beat Juggs and he can't beat her.

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ZhuRong

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This isn't a stalemate. Team 2 gets murdered.

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DarkRaiden

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#7  Edited By DarkRaiden

Shadow Cabinet. Juggs is only beat by BFR though.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@darkraiden: @zhurong: @iconrocket123:

I hear you fellas. How do you think I even (i.e. make this a "horse race") this out? Should I give Apoc his Horsemen? I'm perfectly willing to do that. Maybe even adding Adamantium Sabretooth and/or Selene...? You guys know I hate making spite threads.

As far as your assessment goes @darkraiden, the Neos do indeed have a couple of options to affect that outcome exactly. But it may not come to that if Hawkman's weaponry is used to full effect here.

IMO...

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KritikalMassX

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If you have two powerhouses like Blue Marvel and Icon, then I think the X-Men villians doesn't have much of a chance.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@kritikalmassx:

If you have two powerhouses like Blue Marvel and Icon, then I think the X-Men villians doesn't have much of a chance.

Fair enough, though Juggs has been known to be quite resilient. Should I add The Horsemen of Apocalypse, Selene, and/or Adamantium Sabretooth? Perhaps Stryfe...? Feedback is always welcome!;)

What do you think @dondave, @blackwind, @serrure, and @perethorn?

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serrure

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@heraldofganthet: I feel like Steel and Monica really do win this for their team.

Adding Apocalypse might help the X-men villains some. but even he would be hard pressed to beat Monica

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adamTRMM

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First of all, X-villains are outnumbered. Then, I'm not sure anyone can deal with Monica since it'll take extreme energy manipulation to accomplish that, it might be Apocalypse but one feat is just not enough to claim that. And he will be busy with Blue Marvel/Steel/Icon with the help of Juggernaut of course, and then you have all other characters that can also help the Cabinet. I don't see how Magnum and Red even contribute anything significant here.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@serrure:

I feel like Steel and Monica really do win this for their team.

Adding Apocalypse might help the X-men villains some. but even he would be hard pressed to beat Monica

They certainly are a dream team. So, you think I should give Apoc his Horsemen to improve his teams odds?

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serrure

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adamTRMM

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#15  Edited By adamTRMM

@heraldofganthet said:

They certainly are a dream team. So, you think I should give Apoc his Horsemen to improve his teams odds?

Depends what Horsemen. There are others Apocalypse related characters that aren't even his Horsemen and still have some legit feats (like say Stryfe or Exodus).

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HeraldofGanthet

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#16  Edited By HeraldofGanthet

@adamtrmm:

Depends what Horsemen. There are others Apocalypse related characters that aren't even his Horsemen and still have some legit feats.

Interesting... Any examples?

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comic_book_fan

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#17  Edited By comic_book_fan

Apocalypse and juggernaut gives them hell on there own but if you want add Apocalypse minions to the fight you could have sinister exodus and stryfe but eather of them might make it over kill.

or you could add horsemen hulk.

and even if dracula and Apocalypse did get into a fight dracula wouldn't last 2 minutes against modern day Apocalypse the only reason he was able to do anything to Apocalypse was because it was a less evolved Apocalypse and Apocalypse underestimated him current Apocalypse would now be immune to his bite and have more than enough fire power to incinerate him.

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adamTRMM

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#18  Edited By adamTRMM

@heraldofganthet:

Harbinger of Apocalypse, guy was turned into this by Apotech, classically, Apoc transmuted him into a living bomb eventually that Cable BFRed to save Avengers and the city, anyway he had a very prolonged fight with Avengers that took place for two issues, so it's just a part of it. Both issues ended with BFR, and I say it's pretty impressive when you face this roster:

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HeraldofGanthet

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@comic_book_fan:

Apocalypse and juggernaut gives them hell on there own but if you want add Apocalypse minions to the fight you could have sinister exodus and stryfe but eather of them might make it over kill.

Without Cyclops on the Shadow Cabinet Neo, Mr. Sinister becomes an immovable object, IMO. Exodus and/or Stryfe on the other hand are VERY interesting. Stay tuned!

or you could add horsemen hulk.

True. But I'd like you to check out and then post in this thread before I add this incarnation of the Hulk to this X-Villain roster: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/shadow-cabinet-neo-vs-world-breaker-hulk-1630375/

and even if dracula and Apocalypse did get into a fight dracula wouldn't last 2 minutes against modern day Apocalypse the only reason he was able to do anything to Apocalypse was because it was a less evolved Apocalypse and Apocalypse underestimated him current Apocalypse would now be immune to his bite and have more than enough fire power to incinerate him.

Fair enough, but in this fight they'd be allies. So there is at least that...

@adamtrmm:

Harbinger of Apocalypse, guy was turned into this by Apotech, classically, Apoc transmuted him into a living bomb eventually that Cable BFRed to save Avengers and the city, anyway he had a very prolonged fight with Avengers that took place for two issues, so it's just a part of it. Both issues ended with BFR, and I say it's pretty impressive when you face this roster:

Wow. I'd never heard of this guy until now. He's got some firepower for sure. I may include him when/if I edit the OP. Stay tuned!

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adamTRMM

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Wow. I'd never heard of this guy until now. He's got some firepower for sure. I may include him when/if I edit the OP. Stay tuned!

Well, he never made it past this arc for reasons I already stated.

Let me know when the changes are done.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@adamtrmm:

Well, he never made it past this arc for reasons I already stated.

Let me know when the changes are done.

Will do!!

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comic_book_fan

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Apocalypse can adapt to any form of attack he will be very hard to put down.

exodus took on the x-men and the avengers b team with pretty easily.

harbinger of Apocalypse took on cable and the avengers A team and only lost to a bfr.

And juggernaut can't be hurt basically they will have to try and bfr these guys.

Apocalypse and exodus will take most of the team them selves.

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adamTRMM

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#24  Edited By adamTRMM

Now this is going to be fun. Harbinger adapted to being BFRed into a magical dimension by Thor, reconstructed himself from any damage and was creating an antithesis to any attack that was replicated against him. He is a major player here, KOed Wonderman twice, made Thor look unproductive, made a feedback to Vision's intangibility, yeah he can do some major damage here.

Exodus, now I ask, what team's one TP defenses are? Because Exodus got control over Jean and multiple others at the same time so it took Xavier's intervention to just distract him, all while holding a force field over the whole island threatening to crush everybody under it, other instance battled Rachel telepathically while fighting multiple X-men physically with Rogue being able only to steal ONE power out of his powerset with a touch, which I don't think I ever saw that limitation for her before.

So as of now, even avoiding Exodus' TP, he's still an island buster in TK and a telepotrer, with Harbinger's adapting thrown at the mix of Apocalypse and Juggernaut. Well, now I definitely can see team two taking the majority.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@comic_book_fan:

Apocalypse can adapt to any form of attack he will be very hard to put down.

exodus took on the x-men and the avengers b team with pretty easily.

harbinger of Apocalypse took on cable and the avengers A team and only lost to a bfr.

And juggernaut can't be hurt basically they will have to try and bfr these guys.

Apocalypse and exodus will take most of the team them selves.

I gotcha. And while it's true that the Neo's do have a variety of different methods to employ just that tactic, it may not necessarily come to that. I can't say how or why I think that (being the OP and all), but 'Viners like @iconrocket123, @younggunna, @matchesmalone21, and others may be able to illustrate some possibilities.

All in all, I think that both of these teams are in for quite a battle. Especially in this particular location...

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WarlordEternal

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I'm not sure who takes it.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@adamtrmm:

Now this is going to be fun.

Glad to hear it!;)

Harbinger adapted to being BFRed into a magical dimension by Thor, reconstructed himself from any damage and was creating an antithesis to any attack that was replicated against him. He is a major player here, KOed Wonderman twice, made Thor look unproductive, made a feedback to Vision's intangibility, yeah he can do some major damage here.

I agree. I had never even heard of this guy until your initial posting. But he seems to be pretty beefy. I do wonder how he'll fare against a possible double team of anti-matter attacks from Blue Marvel and/or Steel's Annihilator cannon. Just off the top of my head anyway. I'm sure that other possibilities will arise before this is all said and done. But yeah, I wouldn't sleep on this Harbinger guy...

Exodus, now I ask, what is team's one TP defenses are? Because Exodus got control over Jean and multiple others at the same time so it took Xavier's intervention to just distract him, all while holding a force field over the whole island threatening to crush everybody under it, other instance battled Rachel telepathically while fighting multiple X-men physically with Rogue being able only to steal ONE power out of his powerset with a touch, which I don't think I ever saw that limitation for her before.

Exodus is indeed a beastmode character. I know that Bloodwynd has an innate, mystical telepathic resistance that borders on immunity, but I'm uncertain as to what the upper limits of it are. Steel's older armors resisted telepathic as well as telekinetic probes from an angry Maxima (who if she were a Marvel character would easily be considered one of Exodus' peers) by cycling both himself and his armor through multiple Tesseract dimensions at speeds way to high for my math skills to understand. It makes sense that his updated armor(s) would also have this ability, or perhaps even an upgraded version of said ability. He was also able to level Triumph when he turned evil by bombarding him with massive doses of microwave radiation as retaliation for destroying one of his suits of armor. It's at least plausible he could do the same here to du Paris, but he'd probably have to work quickly IMO... Black Lightning has similar (though not identical) protections to telepathic invasion that Storm has, due to his unique brain chemistry/energy flow.

So yeah, while Exodus is a scary guy, the Neo's still have a few options by my estimation. How well they execute them is another matter entirely.

So as of now, even avoiding Exodus' TP, he's still an island buster in TK and a telepotrer, with Harbinger's adapting thrown at the mix of Apocalypse and Juggernaut. Well, now I definitely can see team two taking the majority.

No doubt. He's a very scary guy. That said, Bloodwynd, Steel, and Twilight are teleporters as well so they may be able to escape such an attempt to restrain them. Monica, Starlight, and Black Lightning all have the ability to move at light speed if needed, so they might be able to get the drop on him and his comrades.

Possibly...

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adamTRMM

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#28  Edited By adamTRMM

@heraldofganthet:

I agree. I had never even heard of this guy until your initial posting. But he seems to be pretty beefy. I do wonder how he'll fare against a possible double team of anti-matter attacks from Blue Marvel and/or Steel's Annihilator cannon. Just off the top of my head anyway. I'm sure that other possibilities will arise before this is all said and done. But yeah, I wouldn't sleep on this Harbinger guy...

That's why I enlisted his adapting capabilities, I suggest even without direct showing of countering anti-matter or light-speed blitz, he might be able to come out successfully adapting to it based on what he showed already. Also either Cable or Iron Man claimed his adaptation is somewhat limitless.

Exodus is indeed a beastmode character. I know that Bloodwynd has an innate, mystical telepathic resistance that borders on immunity, but I'm uncertain as to what the upper limits of it are. Steel's older armors resisted telepathic as well as telekinetic probes from an angry Maxima (who if she were a Marvel character would easily be considered one of Exodus' peers) by cycling both himself and his armor through multiple Tesseract dimensions at speeds way to high for my math skills to understand. It makes sense that his updated armor(s) would also have this ability, or perhaps even an upgraded version of said ability. He was also able to level Triumph when he turned evil by bombarding him with massive doses of microwave radiation as retaliation for destroying one of his suits of armor. It's at least plausible he could do the same here to du Paris, but he'd probably have to work quickly IMO... Black Lightning has similar (though not identical) protections to telepathic invasion that Storm has, due to his unique brain chemistry/energy flow.

So yeah, while Exodus is a scary guy, the Neo's still have a few options by my estimation. How well they execute them is another matter entirely.

Interesting, what are Maxima's best TP/TK feats?

I'm actually not really well-familiar with majority of team 1 members like Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel, Starlight, Twilight & Bloodwynd so I expect people who have better understanding to come with counter arguments.

I think you forgot to include Black Lightning to OP ;)

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DarkRaiden

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Still Shadow Cabinet Neo.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@adamtrmm:

Interesting, what are Maxima's best TP/TK feats?

I don't have any scans, but maybe Super'Viners like @lvenger and/or @tifalockhart may be able to help out here with their fountains of knowledge!:)

I'm actually not really well-familiar with majority of team 1 members like Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel, Starlight, Twilight & Bloodwynd so I expect people who have better understanding to come with counter arguments.

@matchesmalone21, @serrure, & @entropy_aegis are certified Steel gurus. Love those guys! @iconrocket123 is your one-stop shop for all things Icon, Starlight, and Twilight. And I know that @beatboks1, @younggunna, & @pooty have made awesome arguments for Mr. Terrific in the recent past, so perhaps they'll lend their much needed expertise here.

I think you forgot to include Black Lightning to OP ;)

Whoops!:P Good catch!!

@darkraiden:

Still Shadow Cabinet Neo.

How do you think they pull it off, mon ami?

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serrure

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@heraldofganthet: Monica is gonna be busy with Apocalypse that means Steel, Icon, Marvel, and Twilight are gonna have to step up

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HeraldofGanthet

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@serrure:

Monica is gonna be busy with Apocalypse that means Steel, Icon, Marvel, and Twilight are gonna have to step up

Agreed. This one is going to be loud for sure!

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Lvenger

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The Shadow Cabinet Neo still have more advantages than the X-Men villains it seems. Juggernaut is left to be dealt with by BFR which isn't out of the question.

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adamTRMM

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HeraldofGanthet

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@lvenger:

The Shadow Cabinet Neo still have more advantages than the X-Men villains it seems. Juggernaut is left to be dealt with by BFR which isn't out of the question.

By a huge or narrow margin? I hope it's not a blow out. By the way, do you have any cool Maxima scans?

@adamtrmm:

Ok, I'll be waiting for their arguments.

They are trickling in now. Hopefully my peoples @willpayton will chime in soon!

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willpayton

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@adamtrmm:

Ok, I'll be waiting for their arguments.

They are trickling in now. Hopefully my peoples @willpayton will chime in soon!

I dont know enough about some of these characters, so I'll have to sit this one out.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@willpayton:

I dont know enough about some of these characters, so I'll have to sit this one out.

Really? That's crazy. I actually stumped you bro? Well, thanks for peeking in anyway mon ami! It's always appreciated!:)

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deactivated-5c1d15b8899b0

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@adamtrmm:

Interesting, what are Maxima's best TP/TK feats?

I don't have any scans, but maybe Super'Viners like @lvenger and/or @tifalockhart may be able to help out here with their fountains of knowledge!:)

I'm actually not really well-familiar with majority of team 1 members like Icon, Mr. Terrific, Steel, Starlight, Twilight & Bloodwynd so I expect people who have better understanding to come with counter arguments.

@matchesmalone21, @serrure, & @entropy_aegis are certified Steel gurus. Love those guys! @iconrocket123 is your one-stop shop for all things Icon, Starlight, and Twilight. And I know that @beatboks1, @younggunna, & @pooty have made awesome arguments for Mr. Terrific in the recent past, so perhaps they'll lend their much needed expertise here.

I think you forgot to include Black Lightning to OP ;)

Whoops!:P Good catch!!

@darkraiden:

Still Shadow Cabinet Neo.

How do you think they pull it off, mon ami?

Sorry mate!!!!

I couldn't be here before,but I'll leave the link to (Pre-New 52) Steel,ok? But if you need a additional help...just call me!!! :D

http://www.comicvine.com/steel/4005-2031/forums/steel-respect-thread-redone-674581/

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serrure

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Sorry mate!!!!

I couldn't be here before,but I'll leave the link to (Pre-New 52) Steel,ok? But if you need a additional help...just call me!!! :D

http://www.comicvine.com/steel/4005-2031/forums/steel-respect-thread-redone-674581/

one of the most comprehensive respect threads on this site is the one just linked. if you cant learn from it... well

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Lvenger

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HeraldofGanthet

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@lvenger:

Not a huge or narrow margin but by a noticeable degree IMO.

I hear ya. Hey, @lordofallhumans I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I always learn something about X-Men related stuff when you chime in!!:)

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LordOfAllHumans

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@heraldofganthet: Not really much to add, but I think Exodus is being overestimated. Not saying he is not powerful because he is and will give this team hell, but his highest feats have always been in the presence of others that serve to feed his powers, he is a psi leech. It makes no sense to mention how he did this and that on genosha and then forget the circumstances. If he was naturally always at blood ties levels Emma would have had no chance against him. His powers were significantly weakened after the fall of Avalon, then we find out its because he is a psi leech and needed to recharge by leeching off of Nate Grey.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@lordofallhumans:

Not really much to add, but I think Exodus is being overestimated. Not saying he is not powerful because he is and will give this team hell, but his highest feats have always been in the presence of others that serve to feed his powers, he is a psi leech. It makes no sense to mention how he did this and that on genosha and then forget the circumstances.

Ahh... See? I learn something new every time you grace the Threads, mon ami. Sweet, beautiful context... I love it!

If he was naturally always at blood ties levels Emma would have had no chance against him. His powers were significantly weakened after the fall of Avalon, then we find out its because he is a psi leech and needed to recharge by leeching off of Nate Grey.

Gotcha. No Nate Grey to sponge off here, that's for sure. Although Bloodwynd does have sizable telepathic skills (albeit his psionic talents are mystically based. Not sure how his leeching abilities react/respond to magical telepathy)... Hmm.. That said, how do you think the Villains fare here? Hopefully I didn't make a spite thread in either teams favor.