A bastion of hope, the Jedi Temple has stood for millennia. A symbol of the Jedi's dominance, and influence on Coruscant's skyline.
Team Consolemaster will start at point A, Team Cosmicallyaware will start at point B, Team Esquire will start in a defensive position inside the Temple.
Objectives
Team Esquire
- Protect the Jedi Temple from the invaders
Teams Consolemaster001 and Cosmicallyaware1
- Assault and storm the Temple
But above all,
Eliminate every enemy at all costs.
Layout
Team A start the centre of the Temple, at the foot of the Spire. Team B start at public center (The round docking bay in the first picture)
Rules
- Eliminate both opposing teams, occupy the temple.
- No permanent BFR
- You're allowed to make use of any of the Temple's defenses or structures
-Teams get 1 day's worth of Prep. Teams Consolemaster001 and Cosmicallyaware1 get dossiers on their opponents after 6 hours, whereas Team Esquire only gets knowledge about who they're fighting 2 hours before the match, however, they are allowed free access to roam and familiarize themselves with the Temple during their Prep.
- The Prep allows you to make use of any of your resources, however I draw the line at inviting other people into the match. For Example. No Minions/Armies/LMDs however, if you had Madrox I'd allow duplicates naturally.
Okay, let's get this show on the road. With a day of prep, my team has plenty of options for defending the temple.
Sodam Yat and Mon-El are both Daxamites, an offshoot of Kryptonians who left Krypton before its destruction. As such, they have Superman-like powers and metabolize Yellow Sun radiation. Since they have 24 hours to spare, they'll both go to Sundip, bathing in the sun's core to gorge on its power. When Superman sundipped for less than an hour, his powers tripled and he was able to move Warworld with pure strength. So after a full day of sundipping, the Daxamites will be exponentially more powerful than Superman as far as Daxamite powers go.
Meanwhile, since all resources are available, Steel will retrieve his time machine and send Manhunter, Super Skrull, and Cassandra to the Legion of Three Worlds future.
Martian Manhunter will meet with the Sodam Yat of the future, and use a recording made by my Sodam Yat to convince him to give up 58 of the 7000 unused GL rings. Cassandra will retrieve a vial of the serum that made Mon-El immune to lead poisoning, and Super Skrull will go to the Legion Museum and grab Superboy Prime's solar armor. They'll all meet up and return to our time.
While they're doing this, Steel will retrieve the Entropy Aegis and then interface with the Temple's computer systems and then rewire the training droids to fight lethally. Once the team returns from the future, he'll examine the Solar Armor and build a copy of it. Since he was able to fabricate time machine without instructions, I have no doubt he'll be able to make a copy in the time allotted. Once that's done, Martian Manhunter will give everyone ten Green Lantern rings, and they'll take a few hours to practice using them. Since MM and Steel have experience with Green Lanterns, they'll make productive use of their time. With two hours left, they'll receive dossiers on their opponents, which they'll study. MM will TP link my team, so everyone will absorb the information from the dossiers simultaneously.
@Esquire that's one hell of a prep and you're allowed to use time travel ?
I see no reason why I couldn't use it. Time manipulation is out, but time travel doesn't affect the flow of time during the battle, so I see no issues.
@consolemaster001: hey, know eliminating all opponents is key, but wanna team up to take Esquire out and then we square off? could use you in my opening statement, some of our guys are very comparable to get esquire. His team is powerful and he's a good debater.
Sorry Esquire.
So, we can use time travel and not manipulation?cool. also, what are the rules on pulling items/artifacts in? should we clarify with Nick? I don't have a problem w/ Esquire's (I can counter that)...just wondering on the caps of what i"m allowed to do.
How this is going to work is, my team occupies the temple. Both of your teams want to take it over. Since you both want to take control, you'll have to kill both my team and your opponent's team in order to take possession. All teams are in fighting mode, so you won't be negotiating a team-up or anything like that. So everybody fights everybody.
If you want to argue this, that's fine. But that was the explanation I gave to Backflip and Consolemaster here when I suggested the three-way. Again, if you want to debate how your team-up would realistically happen, by all means go for it.
On prep: My understanding was that all resources your team personally has access to are available, but nothing can break the rules. So you couldn't bring in artifacts that would allow you to reality warp, or that put you over the Silver Surfer limit. I don't think the Solar Armor and extra rings put my team over that limit, but if you think so then please call me out.
A quick note of clarification: First, on the team-up idea. My problem is not "Waah, their ganging up on me! It's not fair!" My problem is that you are going into this with the mindset of a battle, and since you have the dossiers, you know that everyone you see is an enemy. I'm just skeptical that your teams would sit around and have a diplomatic discussion about mutual benefits, especially if my team is shooting at both of them.
Also, on my prep: Mon-El and Sodam will get the Solar Armor and Sodam the anti-lead serum when they land 5 minutes before the battle. And they are able to get those from the Legion because of a recording Mon-E will send with my future team.
@Esquire: Doesnt the Solar Armour put Mon El like in Thanos League?
It has no feats to demonstrate anything even remotely close. It changed SBP from someone who could fight Kal-El and Kal-L to someone who could beat them. It's essentially a continuous sundip, with some added durability. Nowhere close to Thanos level.
@CadenceV2: I'm not sure Owned is accurate. He was able to hurt him, but he's often able to at least put up a fight against DS. Superman is a little stronger than Mon-El or Sodam before sundip anyway, though. But here're the vs Darkseid scans.
A quick note of clarification: First, on the team-up idea. My problem is not "Waah, their ganging up on me! It's not fair!" My problem is that you are going into this with the mindset of a battle, and since you have the dossiers, you know that everyone you see is an enemy. I'm just skeptical that your teams would sit around and have a diplomatic discussion about mutual benefits, especially if my team is shooting at both of them.
Also, on my prep: Mon-El and Sodam will get the Solar Armor and Sodam the anti-lead serum when they land 5 minutes before the battle. And they are able to get those from the Legion because of a recording Mon-E will send with my future team.
I say that cosmic and i could use our prep time to discuss diplomatically and besides esq has a green lantern rings on EVERY member on each finger so i think it's fair.
@Esquire: understood on the team up. i will change my strategy, I overlooked the post you had put regarding the situation, was just trying to utilize everything at my disposal. And you really pulled some sick stops out on amping up you team! I'm gonna have to work hard for this one.....will be posting here in a bit, one last piece of research and need to find a few scans....
If its the flash rogues vs injustce league ( or whatever it was) , based on my recollection of the debate IZZr lost badly. hos answers to every post of Esquires were just your teams not powerful enough withiut actually adressing offered strategy.
okay...here I go...this is the initial salvo to deal with Esquire's team,,working on my other opponent next. Esquire's team is the most potent threat and needs to be dealt with first.
-Initially Warlock and ray begin initial attack. Warlock infects the temple w/ Techno organic virus and takes control while Ray creates hundreds of solid light constructs of himself and creates diversionary tacticts at FTL speeds.
-Dr.Fate teleports to obtain Mind gem, returns and gives it to Xemnu. Xemnu immediately begins mental assault on all combatants with substantial increased ability from Gem, focusing on disrupting GL ring weilders ability and shutting down mental capabilities of Manhunter and Cassandra Nova.
-Ganthet immediately senses the number of GL rings/energy in the area and begins to find a way to counter/absorb/shut down GL energy and unleashes a heavy barrage attack
-Dr.Fate goes on offensive and first engulfs Manhunter in Mystic flames that attack his physical and mental form, the flames cannot be extinguished.
-immediatley following that Ganthet shuts down all GL rings and GL energy......Ray collects rings from combatants at FTL speeds and delivers them to Ganthet who destroys them while in protective globe reinforced by Fate's magics
-next Fate senses threat of amped daxamites, takes Thragg and teleports all t Daxam space where yelow sun enhancements fade......Thragg beats then badly into unconsious.
then Fate teleports then all back to the battlefield where Xemnu enslaves their minds to be used as puppets against other team.
-with the mindgem, Xemnu's augumented psychic powers have destroyed Casandra Nova's mind
-Ray and Thragg double team Super Skrull and take him out.
-Warlock and Fate have been using Technarcy infection plus Fate's mystic energies, along with Xemnu's psychic barrage to handle Steel and Entropy Aegis. Steel falls and Fate teleports Aegis into Limbo.
Remember, Cosmically, you get a full day's prep in advance if you want it. Solid opening post, this is definitely going to be a tough match for all of us. I'll try to get a rebuttal up sometime today. If you want to debate why a team-up is reasonable, I'm open to that. I had assumed that Prep time was separate and the first time we met was on the battlefield, but if you want to argue differently, go for it.
@IZZR@CadenceV2@beatboks1
IZZR lost internet for a while, so we decided to continue our debate. I've still got lots I'd like to say, but I don't have a lot of free time right now. I'll try to get something up soon, though.
Does my team get prep or do we go straight for the assault like cosmic ?
@cosmicallyaware1
All three teams get a day of prep before the fight. The difference between you two and me is, you get dossiers of information on your opponents after six hours, so you get 18 hours of prep with knowledge. I don't get dossiers until 2 hours remain, but I do get to prep the temple and things like that. Cosmicallyaware1 didn't use his prep in his initial post. I'm not sure if he didn't want it or didn't know about it, but he can go back and explain what he would do with it. Consolemaster001 also gets a full day's prep to work with. Access to all resources, but no help from allies and such. And no bringing in artifacts/equipment that will break the rules.
I'm on my phone and it's 11 PM where i live so i'll be going to bed soon bit i made you guys wait long enough and i don't want you guys to wait any longer because of me.
-Doctor doom will use his interdimensional portal to send Ultraman and Spidey to the antimatter universe to look for kryptonite (unlike his earth one counterpart kryptonite amplifies ultraman's powers). Spidey will tag along with him because that way they can search on a much quicker
-Back at headquarters doom will give Mary, Vision and abin his enhancements. The same ones that allowed him to go toe to toe with the likes of thor and doctor strange this way they will be immume to all diseases and magic
-Vision will later go to absorb solar energy. And be fully charged
-Abin will travel to oa where he speaks with the guardians and tell them about ganthet's misadventures. The gaurdians say that he didn't have their approval and he will be punished. (if this is unapproved then i'll edit this out. :D)
-With little time remaining finally doctor doom will travel to earth 91110 and retrieve the power stealing device.
@consolemaster001: Seems pretty solid, I just have a couple of questions.
Does Ultraman have any Kryptonite stockpiled anywhere? If not, I'd be willing to say that they find 1 piece, just to keep things simple. Sound okay?
I'm not too keen on speaking with the Guardians. You could consult with them, I guess, but I think having them punish Ganthet would count as bringing in outside help. Does that seem reasonable?
How long will it take Doom to give the enhancements? If it doesn't take very long, you could do it to Spidey and Ultraman, too.
Does Doom have access to the power stealing device? If he made it and 91110 is his home reality, then I have no issues with it.
But that seems cool, and you can get your opening strategy up tomorrow sometime when you have time. I still have to respond to Cosmically's first post, so you're not holding us up.
@Esquire: Forgot that I had prep time!!! ok, sooooo
with the prep time my team:
-Dr. Fate uses his abilities to advance Warlock to near maturity, amping his power levels close to that of his father, the Magus
(example of mature technarcy)
(showing of Magus ripping apart a star)
-now take note that I stated that Warlock is amped to NEAR maturity, he does not quite have the power level of father, this is just to show that his power set ha raised substantially and can support the actions i stated in opening argument.
next:
-Dr.Fate studies the spell necessary to use against Manhunter so it is effective
I think that is all i need honestly.........................
Actually i just found out that ultraman carries kryptonite with him but still more would increase their chance of winning so...
Doom's enhancements wouldn't take much time but spidey and ultraman are powerful enough so i had to sacrifice them to save time.
Earth-91110 is the home reality to the power stealing device and doom has a inter dimensional portal so he travels there and retrieves it.
The gaurdians punishing ganthet wouldn't really be bringing outside help. But if abin had asked them to come fight alongside them, then that would be breaking the rules. Anyways it's 12 pm now . Goodnight to me and have a nice afternoon to everyone else. :)
@Esquire: yeah, that was the spell I was thinking of...couldn't think of the name. was trying to find a pic to use as scan. was also thinking of using scan from Virtue and Vice where manhunter was immobilized......
Okay, here we go. Before the battle starts, everyone will get ten GL rings and the Daxamites will get Solar Armor, and Sodam Yat will get the Anti-Lead serum. During my two hours of full knowledge prep, everyone will have adjusted their GL auto-shields to be one-way mirrors, and they'll have programmed the rings to automatically blast each of your team members.
Martian Manhunter will set up a telepathic link between my team and Steel will interface with the Temple's systems. Just before the battle starts, MM and Super Skrull will turn invisible. MM and Cassandra will go intangible. Then, the battle is joined.
okay...here I go...this is the initial salvo to deal with Esquire's team,,working on my other opponent next. Esquire's team is the most potent threat and needs to be dealt with first. Initially Warlock and ray begin initial attack. Warlock infects the temple w/ Techno organic virus and takes control
An early version of Steel's armor had tech antibodies. He's now several iterations later, so it stands to reason that his antibodies would be even more powerful. Taking over the temple won't be easy. Especially with 24 hours to work on the systems, John Henry will have made it pretty difficult to hack.
while Ray creates hundreds of solid light constructs of himself and creates diversionary tacticts at FTL speeds.
The diversions will be ineffective because of the telepathic link. J'onn and Cassandra will be able to isolate the real Ray with their telepathy and that information will be relayed to everyone via the link. Ray can create plenty of constructs, but he's up against six people who can do the same thing, including one who's ION-powered. His constructs will get swamped due to superior numbers alone, ignoring the fact that Sodam and Mon-El are trained GLs and everyone has other ways of dealing with constructs.
-Dr.Fate teleports to obtain Mind gem, returns and gives it to Xemnu.
Wait, the Marvel mind gem from the infinity gauntlet? First of all, how does Fate even know it exists? Second, how does he know where to find it? And third, how does he plan to get it away from the entire team of X-Men, seeing as it was in Xavier's possession? And even if he could get it, there's a reason Charles doesn't use it. It's extremely difficult and dangerous to use, it's not just a generic amplifier. Xemnu would be taking a huge risk even trying to use it, and without a lot of practice it wouldn't amp him all that much.
Xemnu immediately begins mental assault on all combatants with substantial increased ability from Gem, focusing on disrupting GL ring weilders ability and shutting down mental capabilities of Manhunter and Cassandra Nova.
First of all, GL rings have strong telepathic resistance.
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Each of my team has ten, so that's pretty potent TP resistance right there. Secondly, Manhunter is a dominant telepath. He's gotten into Spectre's mind more than once, read every mind on the planet, dominated multiple white martians, and done things like make Joker sane. He's no pushover in a mental battle. And Cassandra Nova made a name for herself by possessing Charles Xavier for months, undetected by the various telepaths in the X-Men. She's repeatedly punked Xavier in TP battle, and has done the same thing to Jean Grey. Again, she's no pushover. Even if Xemnu could have gotten the Mind Gem, breaking through all of that resistance is unlikely, to say the least. However, he won't have the chance in the first place. Super Skrull's forcefields are able to stop telepathy, as seen here:
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Sue Storm is able to block Jean Grey's telekinesis, and Psi-Lord, (an alternate timeline version of Franklin freaking Richards), has to wait for her to drop her field before he can assault her psionically. Since Super Skrull is superior in power to the Fantastic Four, he should be able to do the same. Once he wraps Xemnu in a bubble, no psionic attack will be possible, and he'll proceed to wrap Xemnu's brain in a forcefield and squeeze, something he'll do in-character. As the scans show, he can create a second forcefield inside the first one, and he's done the brain-bubble technique.
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-Ganthet immediately senses the number of GL rings/energy in the area and begins to find a way to counter/absorb/shut down GL energy and unleashes a heavy barrage attack
Has Ganthet ever done anything like this? I haven't read all that much of him, but I don't remember him shutting down Lanterns like this. Either way, he's not going to do it before Mon-El can blitz him. With as much yellow-sun energy as he's absorbed, he'll be up near light speed and will pack one heck of a punch. His heat vision should be able to vaporize Ganthet entirely, and SBP was punching out the Guardians, so a sundipped, Ring-amped Mon-El should be able to KO him with physical trauma, too. Ganthet will be overwhelmed by sheer power, just like when the Guardians fought Prime.
-Dr.Fate goes on offensive and first engulfs Manhunter in Mystic flames that attack his physical and mental form, the flames cannot be extinguished.
At the beginning of the battle, MM will be invisible and intangible. Since Fate is probably my most powerful opponent, we'll know to target him immediately. J'onn will blitz him while invisible/intangible. Can Hall detect him when he's invisible? Either way, J'onn is Superman-level in strength and speed, so he'll be able to get a few shots in before Fate has the possibility to react. Despite his superhuman durability, Hall has been hurt by plenty weaker that the Martian, so he'll go down to the physical assault before he can cast his spell. However, the physical attack probably won't even be necessary. At the beginning of the battle, Manhunter will mentally blast him, and since Cassandra is a very capable multitasker, she'll also assault him psionically. In the following scan, Manhunter fights Captain Marvel in h2h while simultaneously fighting psychically with The Grey Man, whose telepathy was powerful to possess Captain Marvel and, you guessed it, Dr. Fate at the same time. Even without using intangibility, martian vision, or his various other powers, Manhunter goes almost blow-for-blow with a bloodlusted Billy and is still able to break Grey Man's control over Fate and Batson.
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So, abc logic though it may be, J'onn beat Grey Man who beat Fate. I think it's a valid comparison, since J'onn beat Grey Man psionically and Grey Man beat Fate psionically, so it's really a pretty direct power comparison. And Manhunter also has the aid of Cassandra, so they should be able to beat Fate. But even if by some twist of fate (pun!) he doesn't get completely overwhelmed, he'll certainly be thrown off his game, and while he's off-balance fighting the psychic intrusion J'onn can beat him down easily.
-immediatley following that Ganthet shuts down all GL rings and GL energy......Ray collects rings from combatants at FTL speeds and delivers them to Ganthet who destroys them while in protective globe reinforced by Fate's magics
Ganthet gets blitzed long before he can figure out a way to disable the rings, especially since he doesn't have Fate there to make a magic shield for him. With their reflective GL fields, my team will hold up well against Ray's light-based attacks. As soon as Manhunter is finished with Fate, he'll go after Ray. Interestingly, his Martian Vision can actually hurt Ray, as well.
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Added to everyone's GL attacks and Manhunter attacking telepathically, Ray should go down.
-next Fate senses threat of amped daxamites, takes Thragg and teleports all t Daxam space where yelow sun enhancements fade......Thragg beats then badly into unconsious.
A few issues here: First, Fate will be taken down by now, so he can't teleport them. Second, since Ganthet won't have done anything to their rings, Yat and Mon-El will be able to simply teleport back.
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Third, even if they get 'ported under a red sun and can't get back, they both have Solar Armor keeping them supplied with yellow sun rays, which will keep them at a powerful level.
So Mon-El has made quick work of Ganthet since he doesn't get Fate's protection and Manhunter is attacking Ray. This leaves Steel, Mon-El, and Cassandra Nova to attack Thragg while Yat and Super Skrull hang back to defend the Temple. Thragg, from all I've seen, is more or less Superman-level. Mon-El is Superman-level before he sundipped for a day, got Solar Armor, and got 10 Green Lantern rings. He should be able to win by himself, and with Steel he'll take it for sure. But before they attack, Cassandra will go for possession. None of the Viltrumites have ever displayed TP resistance as far as I know, so she shouldn't have any trouble. This is the woman who possessed Xavier for months with no problems. She shouldn't struggle with Thragg.
She'll then turn him on Warlock, and he'll attack along with Mon-El and Sodam Yat. Steel will pull back to defend the Temple along with SS. Even in his amped form, Mantis should go down to the combined powers of three Superman-level beings with all of their various extra powers.
I've purposefully left some of my team unaccounted for throughout the match, so I have them available to fight off Consolemaster's attack. Once he gets a post up, I'll address his strategy and reveal the rest of my own.
@Esquire: nice man, good work!!! I will be countering here as soon as i can...monday is very busy at work, probably won't get to it until later and will give me time to think.
Before i begin i would like to clarify that : I'm on my phone right now so no scans. I'm sorry but it's near impossible working with a phone on this site. It's lunch break at school right now so i'll just have to write a bit short. Again sorry if my strategy is a bit incomplete or "half-assed" if you will.
-Vision will scan the team of their powers and strength levels. He informs them that steel has taken control over the temple. Doom will use the power stealing device on steel and he'll lose all control over the temple along with his suit. Doom then uses this device to shut down all gl rings. (This once has been used on cosmic spidey and he lost not only his cosmic powers but his spider powers as well.)
-Being immune to telepathy vision will use his solar beams to take down the martian (since fire is his weakness and vision will use it to his advantage.
-Ultraman will fight Mon-El and with a little help from mary and the kryptonite stored in his pockets he'll be able to defeat the daxamite.
-Cosmic spidey flying at light speed will attack Super Skrull not being able to react will ultimately be defeated.
-Cassandra will use her abilities and try to take over or paralyze the minds of my team but abin thanks to his resistance and vision's immunity take her down before she can cause any more damage .
-Meanwhile doom is squaring off with sodam yat and is having a hard time, but ultraman and mary come to the rescue as they just finished dealing with Mon-El.
@Esquire: i'm working on rebuttaling certain points at a time, due to this being quite the task!!!!
first off:
okay...here I go...this is the initial salvo to deal with Esquire's team,,working on my other opponent next. Esquire's team is the most potent threat and needs to be dealt with first. Initially Warlock and ray begin initial attack. Warlock infects the temple w/ Techno organic virus and takes control
"An early version of Steel's armor had tech antibodies. He's now several iterations later, so it stands to reason that his antibodies would be even more powerful. Taking over the temple won't be easy. Especially with 24 hours to work on the systems, John Henry will have made it pretty difficult to hack"
In response to that:
Truthfully, taking over the temple will be easy, and overcoming Steel's tech also. Warlock is a highly evolved techno-organic being who has been shown to easily infect organic matter and mystical/demonic beings, let alone tech which is the most natural for him to interface with
and this is warlock BEFORE his amplification in the prep phase. he is close to maturity Magus level
which would easily overwhelm.
oh yeah..did I mention that the Magus was able to rip a star in half?
saying that his power levels are near that now......Warlock easily states what i intented him to do.
Will move on to the next point soon.........let this one digest.
@Esquire: while i have a momement, i will tackle another rebutall.
-Dr.Fate teleports to obtain Mind gem, returns and gives it to Xemnu.
"Wait, the Marvel mind gem from the infinity gauntlet? First of all, how does Fate even know it exists? Second, how does he know where to find it? And third, how does he plan to get it away from the entire team of X-Men, seeing as it was in Xavier's possession? And even if he could get it, there's a reason Charles doesn't use it. It's extremely difficult and dangerous to use, it's not just a generic amplifier. Xemnu would be taking a huge risk even trying to use it, and without a lot of practice it wouldn't amp him all that much".
-yes, the mind gem from the infinity gauntlet. Firstly, Fate knows it exists because Xemnu is aware of it's existence. Secondly, He knows where to find it by keying in on it's energies through a spell and teleporting to it. Thirdly, it's a simple matter of just appearing next to it where it is located, taking it, and teleporting away in the blink of an eye. Doubt it is guarded under 24 watch. Charles doesn't use it out of danger, he doesn't use it from a standpoint of need. Doesn't need to, and probably feels that by using it it would be wrong somehow.
Xemnu would probably taking a risk, but in the extremity of the battle situation....warranted risk. Xemnu is an intergalactic being that has experience using items to augument his power...this is just a different situation. His power would be amped considerably enough to overpower Manhunter, Cassandra and other opponents.
Okay, nice post. I'll drop my strategy for dealing with you and then respond to yours. Another note, you may not want to totally ignore Cosmicallyaware1's team, as it's very powerful, too. You have to defeat us both for a victory. Anyway:
At the beginning of the battle, Cassandra will take possession of Ultraman. "But wait!" You say. "Isn't she using some of her power to weaken Dr. Fate's mental defenses, which will help MM psionically defeat him?" I'm glad you asked! Cassandra Nova is an extremely powerful and versatile psyker, and she can do both with plenty of power to spare. In the following scans, she's able to effortlessly resist Xavier and Jean Grey mentally attacking her simultaneously, and after throwing Charles around with TK she mindr*pes Jean while casting an illusion over Cyclops. While she's doing all of this, she uses TK to destroy Wolverine's arm, goes intangible to avoid a blast from Cyclops, and psionically creates armor to beat on Wolverine. This whole time, Xavier is totally unable to affect her in any way.
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Another notable feat is when she beat Xavier in a telepathic battle, even though he was using Cerebra. This supposedly amps his power to the tenth degree, which would theoretically be equivalent to her beating 9,765,625 Xaviers. At the same time.
Ultraman has never displayed any TP resistance, and powerwise he's a morals-off Superman. Supes has been mindcontrolled several times, by Maxwell Lord for example, who's far less powerful than Cassandra. So she should have no trouble instantly taking over Ultraman, especially since she's proven capable of possessing Charles Xavier, a far stronger mind than Ultraman's.
Ultraman will then blitz Doctor Doom, removing the powerstealing device. Since Doom won't expect Ultraman to attack him, he won't be able to use the powerstealing device on Ultraman before UM steals it at near-light speed. UM will then proceed to pound on Doom with all of his Kryptonian powers. Sentry was able to beat up 616 Doom in Mighty Avengers without much issue, so against an amped and bloodlusted Kryptonian, Doom should go down fast.
@cosmicallyaware1 As soon as Ultraman steals the powerstealing device, he'll speed to Sodam Yat, who will speed to meet him and grab it. With both of them moving at around light speed, the exchange will be over pretty much instantaneously. Then, while Ultraman returns to beat on Doom and Mary, Sodam Yat will fire the powerstealing device at Warlock. This will remove Warlock's technopathy, and since this happens only about a second into the match, John should be able to hold out easily that long. Once Warlock's power is gone, Steel will be able to focus on fighting, and won't have to worry about counter-hacking for the Temple.
Back to @consolemaster001. I'm going to assume that once Ultraman starts attacking Doom, your whole team will unite to fight him off, rather than sticking to your strategy. I'll continue under this assumption for the rest of this post, until I address your strategy directly later on. Ultraman is tough, but he's not tough enough to fight off Mary Marvel, Cosmic Spidey, Doom, Vision, and Abin Sur all at the same time. Luckily, he won't have to. Sodam will use the power-stealing device on Cosmic Spidey, and we already know that it'll work on him. This turns him into regular Peter Parker, so he won't be able to do anything in the fight. Sodam will then give the device to Super Skrull, who'll protect it within a forcefield and GL bubble. Yat will then charge into battle alongside Ultraman.
Abin Sur will be easy to defeat, since Sodam can take over enemy constructs. Shown here against Alex Nero, who was powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, and even Kyle Rayner when he was ION. Here he's beating Kyle and Sodam at the same time until Sodam takes control of Nero's constructs.
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So he can use Abin Sur's own weapon against him, and with his Daxamite powers he should be able to beat Sur, anyway. Since his constructs will be useless against Yat, Sodam will have no trouble fighting Mary Marvel at the same time. Although she's more powerful than usual, thanks to the Black Adam powers, she's also inexperienced with them, as was shown several time in that story ard, iirc. With the sundip and Solar Armor, Yat is physically more powerful and he's also more versatile thanks to his Heat Vision, Ice Breath, and many GL powers. Mary might be able to hold him off for a little while, but especially thanks to his rings she'll definitely lose.
So Ultraman beats Doom due to better stats and more versatile offensive attacks, and Yat beats Abin Sur and Mary Marvel due to Construct Control and superior stats and versatility. Spider-Man has been depowered by the powerstealing device. That leaves Vision and a mindcontrolled Ultraman.
Vision's intangibility is something of an issue, but as I've shown above, Martian Manhunter can shoot Ray while he's intangible, and he and Nova can go intangible as well. Cassandra's TK should be able to hurt Vision while he's phased, too, in my opinion. Either way, most of my team is too fast for him to tag, so he can't pull out a victory before MM finally takes him down with Martian Vision.
After turning Ultraman on anything left of Cosmicallyaware1's team, I'll finally pit Thragg and Ultraman against each other and then Cassandra will execute the victor. Now, on to your strategy:
Aaaand here i go Before i begin i would like to clarify that : I'm on my phone right now so no scans. I'm sorry but it's near impossible working with a phone on this site. It's lunch break at school right now so i'll just have to write a bit short. Again sorry if my strategy is a bit incomplete or "half-assed" if you will.
No problem. Any post is better than no post. And this seems like a fine strategy, not incomplete in the least. If you could get scans of the powerstealing machine, that would be great, but other than that I'm clear on how everything works.
-Vision will scan the team of their powers and strength levels.
You'll already know the basics from the info you get during prep, but this will let you know about the amps and GL rings. Good call.
He informs them that steel has taken control over the temple. Doom will use the power stealing device on steel and he'll lose all control over the temple along with his suit. Doom then uses this device to shut down all gl rings. (This once has been used on cosmic spidey and he lost not only his cosmic powers but his spider powers as well.)
I'm skeptical of the Device taking Steel's powers, since they aren't really powers. He's nothing more than human, it's the suit that gives him his abilities, and the suit isn't really a superpower. Cosmic Spidey's powers, both cosmic and spider, were both superpowers. They weren't equipment, which both the GL rings and Steel's armor are. So without further evidence, I'm unconvinced that the Power Rings and Armor would be affected by the device. However, the point is moot since Ultraman will be blitzing before Doom can trigger the Device.
-Being immune to telepathy vision will use his solar beams to take down the martian (since fire is his weakness and vision will use it to his advantage.
Fire actually isn't a weakness of the Martian anymore. So solar beams won't do much to an intangible shapeshifter with Superman-level durability. Plus, MM could simply speed-blitz him, seeing how much faster he is than Vision.
-Ultraman will fight Mon-El and with a little help from mary and the kryptonite stored in his pockets he'll be able to defeat the daxamite.
This would be a pretty decent fight. We've got Ultraman, who's a little above Superman-level with the kryptonite, and Mary, who's a little below Superman-level and inexperienced with her powers, vs Amped Mon-El, who's way above Superman thanks to sundip and armor, and also has ten GL rings and training in how to use them. I'm really not sure who would win here. I'm leaning towards Mon-El because Mary wouldn't be able to do much damage through the Ring-Shields, and with his amps plus GL amps Mon-El should be able to put her down pretty fast. I would give Mon-El the majority mostly because of durability, but since Cassandra is taking over Ultraman, this fight won't happen, anyway.
-Cosmic spidey flying at light speed will attack Super Skrull not being able to react will ultimately be defeated.
Superskrull has dodged and tanked hits from Mjolnir, and has taken hits from Silver Surfer and Hulk. He has the combined durability of the Thing and Mister Fantastic, which should let him tank hits until he can get a forcefield up. Spidey has him beat in strength and speed, but if SS catches him in a forcefield, he can mess him up pretty good. He has supernova-level fire attacks, anti-matter blasts that have blown the top off of a mountain, 100+ ton strength to put behind superheated stone spike punches, and of course the brain-bubble. And if Cosmic is trying to blitz around, he puts himself at risk of smashing into a forcefield or getting sliced in two by an arm-turned-razorwire. (I have scans of I think all of these, if you want them.) But regardless, the Powerstealing Device is going to be used to negate Peter's powers.
-Cassandra will use her abilities and try to take over or paralyze the minds of my team but abin thanks to his resistance and vision's immunity take her down before she can cause any more damage .
As I've shown above, she's hardly a one-trick pony. She can go intangible and use her telekinesis to destroy Abin, and at best Vision can stalemate her. I think her TK would work on an intangible Vision, but I haven't been able to find any evidence. But whether she can hurt him or not, she's not going down to Sur or to Vision.
-Meanwhile doom is squaring off with sodam yat and is having a hard time, but ultraman and mary come to the rescue as they just finished dealing with Mon-El.
616 Doom has gotten rocked by superior stats in the past, and Sodam has vastly superior stats. As a sundipped Daxamite, he's probably more powerful physically than anyone Doom has ever faced, and he also has his GL versatility. Doom would go down quickly against him, and with ION power I think he could beat Ultraman and Mary together, if that possibility weren't made unnecessary by Cassandra's hostile takeover of Ultraman.
@cosmicallyaware1
i'm working on rebuttaling certain points at a time, due to this being quite the task!!!!
Lol, no worries. I do write quite a bit.
Truthfully, taking over the temple will be easy, and overcoming Steel's tech also. Warlock is a highly evolved techno-organic being who has been shown to easily infect organic matter and mystical/demonic beings, let alone tech which is the most natural for him to interface with and this is warlock BEFORE his amplification in the prep phase. he is close to maturity Magus level which would easily overwhelm.
Impressive stuff. I'll admit that it does look like Warlock could overwhelm Steel's Temple defenses. A couple of counterpoints, though: First, Steel has had a day of prep. Before my future team returns, he'll have nothing better to do than work on the Temple's tech defenses. Rewiring the droids will be the work of at most a couple hours, so that should give him 10+ hours just to make the computer systems his own. Steel's come up with tech that counteracts mind control, so he can do some pretty solid anti-hacking things with the Temple. Warlock should be able to overwhelm them, but it'll take him a little while, especially with Steel actively working to counteract him.
The other thing is, in your scans, Warlock has to touch things to infect them with the virus. This means it'll take him time to get to the Temple before he can infect it, especially with GL rings blasting at him the whole way, and he won't be able to affect Steel himself, due to Steel's flight and speed. All of this should delay Warlock long enough that they can use the Device to steal his powers before any permanent harm is done.
-yes, the mind gem from the infinity gauntlet. Firstly, Fate knows it exists because Xemnu is aware of it's existence. Secondly, He knows where to find it by keying in on it's energies through a spell and teleporting to it. Thirdly, it's a simple matter of just appearing next to it where it is located, taking it, and teleporting away in the blink of an eye. Doubt it is guarded under 24 watch. Charles doesn't use it out of danger, he doesn't use it from a standpoint of need. Doesn't need to, and probably feels that by using it it would be wrong somehow.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. If this sort of thing is legal, what's to stop me making the same argument and having ION teleport to the Wish Machine or something like that, since he's capable of time travel? But even if we let Fate get the Gem and assume it doesn't blow up in his face, Super Skrull can still brain-bubble Xemnu before Fate has gotten the Gem to him.
Xemnu would probably taking a risk, but in the extremity of the battle situation....warranted risk. Xemnu is an intergalactic being that has experience using items to augument his power...this is just a different situation. His power would be amped considerably enough to overpower Manhunter, Cassandra and other opponents.
@Esquire: I actually attacked your team first because they seemed to be on top of the ladder when you replied to @cosmicallyaware1 . Oh and nice reply it'll take some time to cook up a rebuttal. Also my original strategy was to wait until you two eat each other up and then i'd step in and take over :D
@Esquire: i will say that this is seriously fun!!!! i'm am very excited also to have the opportunity to be debating with you, have respect from viewing other debates you have participated in! anyways......nice rebuttals, working on some more points....and looking for those pics of Xemnu psychic augumentation to scan....will be back on later......
@consolemaster001: don't worry, haven't forgotten about you..esquire has my hands full! I am with you in the sense that I was trying to take out esquire and then attack you, but seems that is not going to work.....be prepared for what i have in store for you today!!!!
If you both think it's the best strategy to ignore each other, then go for it. I just wanted to make sure nobody was confused about how that battle was allowed to play out. Both of you are putting up really good debates, and I'm having a great time here. Keep up the good work, and good luck to you both!
If you both think it's the best strategy to ignore each other, then go for it. I just wanted to make sure nobody was confused about how that battle was allowed to play out. Both of you are putting up really good debates, and I'm having a great time here. Keep up the good work, and good luck to you both!
Thanks pal :D oh and tomorrow once i get ahold of my computer i'll write my answer so stay tuned :)
And uh guys nick may be gone but he said that debates will last for 3 days and it's been 2 days since the debating began so i think that we should wrap this up before deadline...which is going to be difficult seeing as i have to fight cosmic after fighting esq's team.
And uh guys nick may be gone but he said that debates will last for 3 days and it's been 2 days since the debating began so i think that we should wrap this up before deadline...which is going to be difficult seeing as i have to fight cosmic after fighting esq's team.
We're honestly further on than almost all of the other matches. Some of them haven't even started yet, so I would say don't worry about the deadline, just do the best you can. I doubt we'll have to close quite so soon.
Ganthet = -has faced many lanterns before and triumphed
has had the power to remove other lantern powerful effects
powerful enough attacks to harm cosmic level entities such as anti-monitor and nekron.
have already shown that guardians are capable of destroying rings if choose to. guardians have bestowed the ION power set, and can take it away also. Sooo Ganthet shuts down and neutralizes GL rings and power sets in the battle....
ganthet has also taken punishment from cyborg superman....
so he is semi used to the physical contact from daxamites.
he can handle this.
that's all I have time for now........
there is much her to still discuss gentlemen.............
@Esquire: I am vengeance, i am the night, I AM BATMAN
At the beginning of the battle, Cassandra will take possession of Ultraman. "But wait!" You say. "Isn't she using some of her power to weaken Dr. Fate's mental defenses, which will help MM psionically defeat him?" I'm glad you asked! Cassandra Nova is an extremely powerful and versatile psyker, and she can do both with plenty of power to spare. In the following scans, she's able to effortlessly resist Xavier and Jean Grey mentally attacking her simultaneously, and after throwing Charles around with TK she mindr*pes Jean while casting an illusion over Cyclops. While she's doing all of this, she uses TK to destroy Wolverine's arm, goes intangible to avoid a blast from Cyclops, and psionically creates armor to beat on Wolverine. This whole time, Xavier is totally unable to affect her in any way.
Good call on the mind control bit.
Ultraman will then blitz Doctor Doom, removing the powerstealing device. Since Doom won't expect Ultraman to attack him, he won't be able to use the powerstealing device on Ultraman before UM steals it at near-light speed. UM will then proceed to pound on Doom with all of his Kryptonian powers. Sentry was able to beat up 616 Doom in Mighty Avengers without much issue, so against an amped and bloodlusted Kryptonian, Doom should go down fast.
Mistaking MUVA doom for 616 doom is a HUGE mistake pal i mean MUVA doom was able to do this
And this
AAAND THIS
Single handidly kicked the ass of an entire team of avengers and young avengers. So don't think doom will go down so easily . And he gave these powers to mary vision and abin so you have to take these into consideration
As soon as Ultraman steals the powerstealing device, he'll speed to Sodam Yat, who will speed to meet him and grab it. With both of them moving at around light speed, the exchange will be over pretty much instantaneously
I am afraid that won't be happening . My team might not have the brightest minds of the marvel and dc universes but they aren't completer friggin' morons. The INSTANCE ultraman attacks doom they'll realise that he's under mind control. It won't take vision more than a second that to figure out that cassandra is doing this. He'll use his fully charged solar beams along with the doom enhancements (see above) to fry (oh alright maybe not fry but at least neutralize) cassandra. Now that that's taken care of, i'm going to assume that they will follow my strategy. Now i'll adress your strategy:
I'm skeptical of the Device taking Steel's powers, since they aren't really powers. He's nothing more than human, it's the suit that gives him his abilities, and the suit isn't really a superpower. Cosmic Spidey's powers, both cosmic and spider, were both superpowers. They weren't equipment, which both the GL rings and Steel's armor are. So without further evidence, I'm unconvinced that the Power Rings and Armor would be affected by the device
Steel lost his armor when Lex Luthor tampered with his DNA . The device is capable of doing that since it took away pete's spider powers . WHICH ARE IN HIS DNA.
Fire actually isn't a weakness of the Martian anymore. So solar beams won't do much to an intangible shapeshifter with Superman-level durability. Plus, MM could simply speed-blitz him, seeing how much faster he is than Vision.ı
I don't have much knowledge of j'onn other than the old justice league tv show .I think i saw an UNLESS- in that sppech bubble i'd like to hear the rest please :) until then, no objections.
This would be a pretty decent fight. We've got Ultraman, who's a little above Superman-level with the kryptonite, and Mary, who's a little below Superman-level and inexperienced with her powers, vs Amped Mon-El, who's way above Superman thanks to sundip and armor, and also has ten GL rings and training in how to use them. I'm really not sure who would win here. I'm leaning towards Mon-El because Mary wouldn't be able to do much damage through the Ring-Shields, and with his amps plus GL amps Mon-El should be able to put her down pretty fast. I would give Mon-El the majority mostly because of durability, but since Cassandra is taking over Ultraman, this fight won't happen, anyway.
Mary might not know how to use her powers properly but she's black adam mary. Which is the most powerful she's ever been. And with doom's powers on top of all that i think Ultraman and Black Adam + Doom-Mary could take down Mon-El. Don't get me wrong he is pretty strong but the devestating team up of these two can be really painful. Besides Ultraman's and Mary's costumes have yellow on them so the gl rings won't have much affect anyway. Though only rookie lanterns are vulnerable to this Mon-El only trained for less than 24 hours
Superskrull has dodged and tanked hits from Mjolnir, and has taken hits from Silver Surfer and Hulk. He has the combined durability of the Thing and Mister Fantastic, which should let him tank hits until he can get a forcefield up. Spidey has him beat in strength and speed, but if SS catches him in a forcefield, he can mess him up pretty good. He has supernova-level fire attacks, anti-matter blasts that have blown the top off of a mountain, 100+ ton strength to put behind superheated stone spike punches, and of course the brain-bubble. And if Cosmic is trying to blitz around, he puts himself at risk of smashing into a forcefield or getting sliced in two by an arm-turned-razorwire. (I have scans of I think all of these, if you want them.) But regardless, the Powerstealing Device is going to be used to negate Peter's powers.
Super Skrull is a worthy opponent *strokes beard* but Cosmic Spiderman has him beat at almost every category . SS may have the durability of thing and Mr. Fantastic (though that is impressive) but Cosmic Spidey DID THIS:
PUNCHED THOR INTO SPACE I SH*T YOU NOT. if you want i can upload the rest of their battle here.
616 Doom has gotten rocked by superior stats in the past, and Sodam has vastly superior stats. As a sundipped Daxamite, he's probably more powerful physically than anyone Doom has ever faced, and he also has his GL versatility. Doom would go down quickly against him, and with ION power I think he could beat Ultraman and Mary together
I think if you look above i already made my points on doom ultraman and mary if cosmic spidey finishes SS fast enough than he can just steal his rings in lightspeed as he did here.
He ended the persian gulf war by disarming both sides within hours hours so i'll think he could take away his rings within seconds. Besides he'll be too busy wtih fighting ultraman mary and Uber Doom (that's what we should call him from now on lol) to notice it.
Oh boy am i tired.
Mary :Nice Job guys
Ultraman: Hey how about we celebrate at olive garden. My treat
DD: B*TCH PLEASE YOU ALWAYS LEAVE ME WITH THE BILL.
Ultraman: Oh i'm sorry not all of us can be rich dictators
DD: Says the man who's leader of a crime syndacite
Ultraman: YOU TALKIN' TO ME SHELLEAD ?
Vision: Gentlemen please.
Ultraman: Stay outta this ROB.
Cosmic S.: Ugh not again, hey abin wanna go back to my place and play the new Call of duty ?
Abin: If the guardians will allow it.....
.....I have fun here...
EDIT: I noticed i didn't adress the martian in this rebuttal since he wasn't involved in your strategy..since cassandra is out of the picture i think that'll leave him to deal with dr.fate and abin
anyway... @consolemaster001: I'ma takin it to you now...........
-In taking control of temple, warlock also assimilates Vision. considering the upgrade to near maturity, he is tpp formidable for Vision to content with, and now I have control over Vision.
-next Dr.Fate binds and entraps Black Mary...drawing her into prison in Amulet the way he did to Mordru...
-Warlock sends controlled Vision after Doom to disrupt his control while he sends portion of himself against Doom in a sneak attack. Vision phases through Doom from beneath his feet in ground, temporarily disrupting him and fritzing out his power stealing machine momentarily. Warlock then infects doom w/ transmode virus.
he has been shown to phase through powerful opponents, force fields, etc...before and cause damage....
and warlock.....
doom end up like this......
-next.......Ganthet ha been dealing with keeping Ultraman busy w/ Thragg while fate transmutes (has shown this ability before....Legends I think?) some of the ground into Blue Kryptonite that disables Ultraman....
-Ganthet then disables Abin Sur the same way he has taken care of other GL rings like on Esqire's team.....
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