Legion vs Umar

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#1  Edited By owie  Moderator

Legion vs Umar.
 
Both at their most powerful.  Umar has the flames of regency.
 
In character.  Legion is lucid enough to fight.
 
Battle takes place in the Dark Dimension.
 
Who wins and why?
 

Legion
Legion
Umar
Umar
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#2  Edited By owie  Moderator

Bump!

Legion, destroyer of the Elder Gods of Limbo? Umar, nearly equal to Dormammu?

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#3  Edited By Magethor

Umar. And Legion didn't destroy the true Elder Gods, because if he had. He wouldn't exist.

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#4  Edited By owie  Moderator

@Magethor said:

Umar. And Legion didn't destroy the true Elder Gods, because if he had. He wouldn't exist.

The Elder Gods of Limbo, which are not the same as the ones from 616.

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#5  Edited By Pokergeist

@Owie: Not quite as Legion Destroy them. Clearly weaker to 616 Eldar Gods.

Umar wins.

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#6  Edited By chiq

@Owie said:

@Magethor said:

Umar. And Legion didn't destroy the true Elder Gods, because if he had. He wouldn't exist.

The Elder Gods of Limbo, which are not the same as the ones from 616.

No Caption Provided

Dormy himself didn't look too happy seeing Magik's bloodstones which contained the Elder Gods...Legion just blinked them out w/o much effort.

Dormammu himself needed Magik 2's help with Archenemy. While Magik needed to manipulate everyone around her to get Legion to destroy the elder gods including the risk of destroying all of creation.

Witchfire treated Dormy and the others more like peers while she looked at the elder gods like some sort of super weapon. Her father had an actual seat at that table.

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#7  Edited By owie  Moderator
@chiq said:

@Owie said:

@Magethor said:

Umar. And Legion didn't destroy the true Elder Gods, because if he had. He wouldn't exist.

The Elder Gods of Limbo, which are not the same as the ones from 616.

No Caption Provided

Dormy himself didn't look too happy seeing Magik's bloodstones which contained the Elder Gods...Legion just blinked them out w/o much effort.

Dormammu himself needed Magik 2's help with Archenemy. While Magik needed to manipulate everyone around her to get Legion to destroy the elder gods including the risk of destroying all of creation.

Witchfire treated Dormy and the others more like peers while she looked at the elder gods like some sort of super weapon. Her father had an actual seat at that table.

Thanks for the scan.  I think Dormammu (and a lot of the other supernatural/extradimensional powers) have been shown at lower power levels recently, compared to the past.  There are all these councils now, like the fear lords and so on, that make them all more equalized than they used to be.
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#8  Edited By chiq

@Owie: Yeah, I myself am confused when ranking them. Hell lords, Fear lords seem to mingle with Death gods. Cyttorak refers to himself as a Demon Lord and seems to have similar characteristics to hell lords being more powerful in their own domains.

No Caption Provided

I don't know what the difference between the Elder gods of Limbo and Earth are.

Limbo though as been described as a portal to all of creation. So i don't know if it is a part of the 616 universe or if its outside it. I also don't know if there is a connection between Immortus Limbo and Magik's. Doom said it was different but both Limbos have access to all sorts of timelines. Even Rom's Direwraiths haved popped up in both Limbo's when Rom banishes them. He calls Limbo a concept more then an actual place.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The splinter realms also confuse me. It's supposed to be one hell that got split into different hell dimensions but you also have Sutur, Pluto and Hela as members.I thought they were connected to Asgard etc....

"Magik tells Kitty that while the N’Garai seek to conquer Earth, Belasco’s ultimate goal is to seize Limbo, the portal to all creation, and use the realm as his base from which to dominate the entire Omniverse." -x-men black sun.

So Limbo might be some sort of nexus...

So is Limbo, the dark dimension, the crimson cosmos, hela's realm, Mephisto's hell, etc just different dimensions? or are they outside the 616 universe? are they a pocket universe? universe, multiverse, omniverse...I am quite perplexed.

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#9  Edited By jeanroygrant

Legion.

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#10  Edited By Saren

@chiq: Interesting scan, where's it from?

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#11  Edited By chiq

@CitizenBane: I think it was from ROM annual 3.

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#12  Edited By Saren

@chiq: The scan with Dormammu, Hela and co?

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#13  Edited By chiq

@CitizenBane: Oh sorry, X-infernus 1

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#14  Edited By Saren

@chiq: Thanks, I've been looking for some context for that Elder Gods feat for quite a while.

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#15  Edited By chiq

@CitizenBane: Yup, No prob.

Magik isn't one who gets intimidated or backs down from really powerful demons or hell lords, especially In Limbo, I mean she has feats on the high end of literally warping reality in Limbo, even the Soul Sword wouldn't be enough this time, she knew her only chance at destroying them completely would be Legion. She risked the destruction of everything to pull it off. Add this scan with with these types of powerhouses crapping in their pants at the sight of the Bloodstones...speaks volumes on that feat of Legion for me.

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#16  Edited By Blacharrt1

@chiq: you said you were abit confused about the Hell lords and Fear lord, i'll try to explain what i know. Basically just like the skyfather, and other pantheons of faith they are corresponding hell gods to deal with the deal. For each different belief there is a Hell god, and it's own hell dimension where those god rule supreme. For example Hela is the ruler of Hel, Mephisto is the Ruler of Hell. Limbo was create as a waypoint a nexus behind those other dimensions and earth, but it was also to guard from the Elder God ever getting to those Dimension because they would destroy everything. So the Hell god also have a duty duty and that why when Magik called up them to fight off the Elders God or a threat to Limbo they do, they are also guardians of sorts.

Fear lord, I'm not too clear on, they aren't really associated with religions so much as the Hell god, but are typically magical people who were banished from the Earth realm and or merged with some ambitious demon and gained insane amounts of power, they don't have the responsibilities the Hell lords do, but tend to be just as powerful.

This is just a very loose interpretation, I'm sure there is more details someone could add to this, but i hope this helps a little.

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#17  Edited By daak1212

Im going with Legion untill someone can inform me of what Umar has done with her life. Literally I know nothing of her except for the Hulk arc

@chiq: I can kinda help you with the Hel thing. Hel has a piece of loaned property from Mephisto (as this was talked about in the D'sir arc of Thor....or Journey into Mystery Im not sure). It was almost token away from her I think but Thor intervened.

Edit: How freaking bad is Marvel at their job. Their are like thousands of nexus's in Marvel. Theirs the White Hot Room/M'Kraan Crystal, Avalon, Earth, Limbo and Chronopolis.

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#18  Edited By owie  Moderator
@chiq: I want to respond to a few other points, but right now I just have a short time, so I want to address Limbo.  Your various scans are interesting.  In the first Annihilators mini, we saw Immortus and banished Dire Wraiths in the same Limbo together, and I had always thought that was the case (they shared that Limbo).  But I thought Magik's was different.  I looked up the description of the various extradimensional realms in the old '86 OHOTMU (which would have come out not too long after those scans, I think), and it said there were actually three LImbos.  These were written by Mark Gruenwald, who was seen as somewhat of an expert on other dimensions at Marvel, so I tend to trust them, but of course things could have changed since then.  Here's what they say, verbatim:
 
Limbo (True)
Type: Alien World
Environment: Subjectively perceived
Usual means of access: Vibrational attunement
Dominant lifeform: Not applicable
Prominent Inhabitants: Immortus, Tempus, Space Phantom
Comments: Limbo is a timeless realm in which all events happen simultaneously, and nothing ever changes.  Through it there is at least a theoretical possibility of reaching any time period in any reality.  Time travelers, therefore, must pass through Limbo during their journey.
 First appearance: Avengers 2

Limbo--Belasco
Type: Mystic realm
Environment: Alien
Usual means of access: Magic
Dominant lifeform: Demons
Prominent inhabitants: Belasco, S'ym, Illyana Rasputin
Comments: This "Limbo" is not the true Limbo of Immortus but rather a similar place in which time and distance can fold in on themselves.  When first seen, this realm was ruled by Belasco, but he was eventually expelled from it, and control was assumed by Magik. 
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men 160
 
Limbo--Rom
Type: Interdimensional space
Environment: Alien
Usual means of access: Vibrational attunement
Dominant lifeform: Dire Wraiths
Comments: This "Limbo" is also not the true Limbo, but rather a place of banishment to which Rom commonly sent Dire Wraiths.  It is accessible from Limbo, and the Space Phantom has visited it.
First appearance: Rom 1
 
So I think this is all interesting in relation to your scans, esp. the last line from OHOTMU.  Maybe they really are separate, but Rom's and Magik's can just be accessed from the true Limbo.
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#19  Edited By chiq

@Blacharrt1: Thanks. Yeah I remember reading somewhere that Limbo is supposed to either a gateway or the final outpost that looks over the splinter realms.

@daak1212 said:

Edit: How freaking bad is Marvel at their job. Their are like thousands of nexus's in Marvel. Theirs the White Hot Room/M'Kraan Crystal, Avalon, Earth, Limbo and Chronopolis.

Agreed.

@Owie: Interesting.

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BUMP

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Umar curbs under these conditions.