Goro vs Nightwing

• Hand to hand.
• Takes place in a Mortal Kombat Tournament (tournament rules apply).
• No PIS jobbing for Goro.

Nightwing jump kicks his head repeatedly. He's arguably faster than his mentor.

He's more agile. I dunno about faster though..

If Dick plays it smart and uses his speed and agility to his advantage..he should win here.

If Liu Kang and Tundra (ok he was a cyborg at the time but he was also tackling Kintaro as well) can beat him, I don't see why Nightwing can't.

Dunno Goro has Aoe, range, and some pretty ridiculous (reality warp) speed when he needs it.

Aside from beating the original Kung Lao, what noteworthy opponents has Goro defeated?

Goro slaughter stomps.

Speed means little if you can't hit hard enough to do any real damage, and if Goro grabs NW once this fight is over.

Also, I don't think NW is skilled enough to contend with Goro. Goro beat the Great Kung Lao, something Shang Tsung's couldn't do, and GKL was WAY faster and more agile than NW.

Goro can't beat Dick...............

@ancient_0f_days: lol!

@onilordasmodeus:

Goro can take punches but he's not made of rock. Dick knows pressure points on humans (maybe it could work on shokan).

Goro isn't human. Knowledge of the pressure points in the human anatomy really doesn't mean much to someone who isn't human.

Goro has changed ALOT. His latest versions have him being very slow but still powerful.

I'm going Nightwing here.

Goro really hasn't changed at all. And if you are talking about gameplay...that is gameplay.

@onilordasmodeus: Why would you shout that at me if I clearly already stated it... lol weird.

@thanofleeze:

You said, and I'm paraphrasing,

"Dick knows the pressure points of the human body, and that may work on a Shokan."

I said,

"no, it wouldn't work."

Did you make a typo or something in you original post?

@onilordasmodeus: No I didn not. I made it clear that humans and shokans were not the same. I just suggested that maybe the anatomies could be similar.

@thanofleeze: I'm only pointing out that that is a moot point. Pressure points are a fairly delicate art, and if muscle, bone, and thus nerve structures are different, then that whole art is turned on its head.

Now, if Dick wants to attack joints and things like that, I could get behind that, but at the same time that just comes full circle back to my statement that I don't think Dick can hit hard enough, nor do I think he is skilled enough, to significantly hurt and defeat Goro.

IMO Nightwing can hit as hard as Liu Kang.

@tifalockhart

Dick can punch through a person? Your gonna have back that claim up.

@onilordasmodeus: That's not a normal punch. That's his fatality.

@tifalockhart

I fail to see the issue. You said Dick can punch as hard as LK, and LK can punch through a person. Through chi LK can augment his strength, as well as his speed and durability. That is how he can beat Goro. What does Dick have?

I seem to recall flames when he does his torso punch move.

Prove he's faster than Nightwing. Has "Great Kung Lao" ever dodged bullets with his speed and agility for example? Nightwing has.

You guys say Goro is too strong for the Wing, I say NW is too fast for Goro.

Not cause of the speed...Cause I freaking hate speed arguments...Like if you have speed that means your un-hittable.....Any way Goro is just another Super villian to Nightwing, even if he shoots out that green fire ball thing....Nightwing whoops dat dude(in my ghetto voice)....Nightwing wears a nice shirt and shades.....

Yes...flames that he summons through Chi.

Do you know who Kung Lao is? Who the Great Kung Lao was?

To start...

The "current" Kung Lao in the games is the reincarnation of the Great Kung Lao. He is as good as he was 500 years, with all the same ability/abilities. Once he got past his jealousy of Liu Kang and found his confidence, he was running through people. All except Shao Kahn that is.

Second...

Kung Lao is/was a teleporter:

Gallery

If Kung Lao was put up against the guy in the scan you posted, as soon as the gun was lifted and pointed at him, he would have teleported behind him and finished him.

Bottom line...

Instantaneous movement beats all of Dicks agility and movement feats (that I know of). Not to mention the facts that KL can create an energy barrier to deflect most physical attacks, as well as the fact that he has a razor trimmed hat which he can essentially control with his mind.

Please don't try to equate Dick to KL; KL and GKL are in a different league than him.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@tifalockhart said:

I seem to recall flames when he does his torso punch move.

Yes...flames that he summons through Chi.

@baltoro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Goro slaughter stomps.

Speed means little if you can't hit hard enough to do any real damage, and if Goro grabs NW once this fight is over.

Also, I don't think NW is skilled enough to contend with Goro. Goro beat the Great Kung Lao, something Shang Tsung's couldn't do, and GKL was WAY faster and more agile than NW.

Prove he's faster than Nightwing. Has "Great Kung Lao" ever dodged bullets with his speed and agility for example? Nightwing has.

You guys say Goro is too strong for the Wing, I say NW is too fast for Goro.

Do you know who Kung Lao is? Who the Great Kung Lao was?

To start...

The "current" Kung Lao in the games is the reincarnation of the Great Kung Lao. He is as good as he was 500 years, with all the same ability/abilities. Once he got past his jealousy of Liu Kang and found his confidence, he was running through people. All except Shao Kahn that is.

Second...

Kung Lao is/was a teleporter:

Gallery

If Kung Lao was put up against the guy in the scan you posted, as soon as the gun was lifted and pointed at him, he would have teleported behind him and finished him.

Bottom line...

Instantaneous movement beats all of Dicks agility and movement feats (that I know of). Not to mention the facts that KL can create an energy barrier to deflect most physical attacks, as well as the fact that he has a razor trimmed hat which he can essentially control with his mind.

Please don't try to equate Dick to KL; KL and GKL are in a different league than him.

You still haven't proven that Kung Lao or Great Kung Lao are faster than NW. Outmaneuvering a guy with no feats like Baraka is not as impressive as dodging bullets easily. He can teleport behind him but the guy can still turn around and shoot him. It's not like being able to teleport is equivalent to actual fighting speed. He can teleport behind NW in a fight and get KOed by Nightwing spin-kicking him or elbowing him in the jaw when he appears...he'll see that trick coming a mile away bro.

Could go either way imo.

It's going to be a tough fight, NW is obviously far more agile and and a lot faster than his opponent. I would also say Dick is more skilled. However Goro outclasses NW in the strength category by a mile, It's gonna be hard for our four-armed friend to land a blow on someone who can easily outmaneuver him, but I do believe eventually Goro can and will land a hit, or cathc a blow form NW and it would be downhill for the first Robin at that point. I do not think NW can hit hard enough to put Goro down or hurt him too much before Goro does his thing and does a bane back breaker on NW.

So your using all feats excluding Gameplay for Goro?

Huh? I'm saying gameplay is not the only way to judge Goro (or any character really). Gameplay shows what a character can do, but it is not the end all be all of that character. You have to take into account lore, as well as the other applicable mediums.

How can you just throw out that 'random dude #5' can beat KL in cqc? What makes you think that the guy with the gun can contend with KL at all? What makes you think that Dick can?

KL beat Shang Tsung...and Shang Tsung would humiliate Dick.

And, why does it always have to be like this? I post feats for an MK character, only to have to turn around and post more feats for another character just because the other guy (you) don't know the material. You don't see me asking you to post shooting feats for the guy with the gun do you? Should you have too?? Should I discount the scan you provided because the guy in it that is shooting at Dick is "feat-less" (?) and probably can't hit the broadside of a barn?

In fact...I think you should prove that that guy can hit a moving target at the same distance that Dick was at. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was Dick's movement that made him miss, and that it wasn't just that that guy was a horrible shot.

SMH...

Back on topic...

This guy fought Goro...

Gallery

...and didn't do much of anything.

Then immediately afterward Liu Kang, JC, Subzero, Sonya, and Kano all attacked him...

Gallery

...and were beaten due to Goro's beyond human strength, durability, and more than exceptional skill and experience.

Prove that Dick is beyond exceptional. Prove that he can hit as hard as KL or LK, the only humans to have ever beaten Goro in fair single combat. Prove that he can even hurt Goro in H2H.

Goro takes this. He's too strong and powerful. He could take his 4 arms and pound Nightwing and Nightwings Pizza sauced..... H2H Wise of course.

@ancient_0f_days: hue hue

Leaning towards Nightwing.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@tifalockhart said:

I seem to recall flames when he does his torso punch move.

Yes...flames that he summons through Chi.

@baltoro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Goro slaughter stomps.

Speed means little if you can't hit hard enough to do any real damage, and if Goro grabs NW once this fight is over.

Also, I don't think NW is skilled enough to contend with Goro. Goro beat the Great Kung Lao, something Shang Tsung's couldn't do, and GKL was WAY faster and more agile than NW.

Prove he's faster than Nightwing. Has "Great Kung Lao" ever dodged bullets with his speed and agility for example? Nightwing has.

You guys say Goro is too strong for the Wing, I say NW is too fast for Goro.

Do you know who Kung Lao is? Who the Great Kung Lao was?

To start...

The "current" Kung Lao in the games is the reincarnation of the Great Kung Lao. He is as good as he was 500 years, with all the same ability/abilities. Once he got past his jealousy of Liu Kang and found his confidence, he was running through people. All except Shao Kahn that is.

Second...

Kung Lao is/was a teleporter:

If Kung Lao was put up against the guy in the scan you posted, as soon as the gun was lifted and pointed at him, he would have teleported behind him and finished him.

Bottom line...

Instantaneous movement beats all of Dicks agility and movement feats (that I know of). Not to mention the facts that KL can create an energy barrier to deflect most physical attacks, as well as the fact that he has a razor trimmed hat which he can essentially control with his mind.

Please don't try to equate Dick to KL; KL and GKL are in a different league than him.

Confusion i have with this. If the great kung lao during the time of MK to deception:ending was imprisoned with shang tsung. Since Shang had his soul. How the heck then how can Kung Lao be reincarnation of the great kung lao if his soul was imprisoned ?

I've asked the same question. IDK. Twin souls maybe? Maybe Shang didn't absorb the entire thing?

This issue has never really been addressed directly as far as I know.

@onilordasmodeus:

Huh? I'm saying gameplay is not the only way to judge Goro (or any character really). Gameplay shows what a character can do, but it is not the end all be all of that character. You have to take into account lore, as well as the other applicable mediums.

Your, "That is just gameplay" statement confused me a bit. Thought you were saying you weren't taking it into account here.

I agree, you should take into account all acceptable mediums. But there are times where they directly contradict each other.

Also, I'm assuming Nightwing has his wing dings and eskrima and he would attempt to hide and use stealth to his advantage. It would seem a bit out of character for him to charge a massive 4 armed man. I give it to Nightwing due to that, and it will be tough for Goro to hit him.

@sachmoo: As long as he follows MK tournament rules, it is allowed.

If Dick has his wing-dings and escrima sticks/staff, then I'd agree that he has more of a chance against Goro. Even still though, I'd have to see some feats from Dick with them (injustice doesn't count) because I'm still not sure that with them that he'd be able to hit hard enough to phase Goro much.

If this fight was taking place in an Injustice style arena, say Gotham, with interactables and explosives where Dick can play a "hit and run" game, then yeah of course Dick would have a very good chance to survive or even win.

But...

The OP says the fight takes place in the MK tournament style...

The image above is the Courtyard where the majority of the fights in the first MK tournament were held. As you can see there is no place to hide, and there is nothing to use to your advantage; this is a 'fight club' style battle where 2 walk in, and 1 walks out. Sure Dick could run out of the ring, but at that point he probably would get DQ'd for refusal to fight, or he'd just be shoved back in by the patrolling guards.

You've got to remember that in a Mortal Kombat battle the stakes are: you win to save your world, or die and condemn all the other people of you world. There is no running to gain a better position to win, or "let me lead him into a trap to win" (this isn't the MK movie here). You can be called out for cheating in the tournament because it is an official event with rules. And when you are up against Goro, you either stand, fight, and win...or die.

I don't see a way for Dick to go through Goro here.

Edit:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@sachmoo said:

@onilordasmodeus:

Huh? I'm saying gameplay is not the only way to judge Goro (or any character really). Gameplay shows what a character can do, but it is not the end all be all of that character. You have to take into account lore, as well as the other applicable mediums.

Your, "That is just gameplay" statement confused me a bit. Thought you were saying you weren't taking it into account here.

I agree, you should take into account all acceptable mediums. But there are times where they directly contradict each other.

Also, I'm assuming Nightwing has his wing dings and eskrima and he would attempt to hide and use stealth to his advantage. It would seem a bit out of character for him to charge a massive 4 armed man. I give it to Nightwing due to that, and it will be tough for Goro to hit him.

If Dick has his wing-dings and escrima sticks/staff, then I'd agree that he has more of a chance against Goro. Even still though, I'd have to see some feats from Dick with them (injustice doesn't count) because I'm still not sure that with them that he'd be able to hit hard enough to phase Goro much.

If this fight was taking place in an Injustice style arena, say Gotham, with interactables and explosives where Dick can play a "hit and run" game, then yeah of course Dick would have a very good chance to survive or even win.

But...

The OP says the fight takes place in the MK tournament style...

The image above is the Courtyard where the majority of the fights in the first MK tournament were held. As you can see there is no place to hide, and there is nothing to use to your advantage; this is a 'fight club' style battle where 2 walk in, and 1 walks out. Sure Dick could run out of the ring, but at that point he probably would get DQ'd for refusal to fight, or he'd just be shoved back in by the patrolling guards.

You've got to remember that in a Mortal Kombat battle the stakes are: you win to save your world, or die and condemn all the other people of you world. There is no running to gain a better position to win, or "let me lead him into a trap to win" (this isn't the MK movie here). You can be called out for cheating in the tournament because it is an official event with rules. And when you are up against Goro, you either stand, fight, and win...or die.

I don't see a way for Dick to go through Goro here.

Edit:

Loading Video...

There are very few times i would ever use injustice to prove a point. This is not one. And i hope your not trying to use a 'Hack' ^ for evidence.

But allow me to tear down most of what you put in there.

1. Search and scour the internet, pretty much the only rule of MK is, 'You cannot turn down a challenge'. Whether it be from an opponent or Shang. We know the rules of win 10 straight, and all that long term stuff. But as far as the battles go, anything goes. matter of fact, the rules of MK are so nonexistent, i don't see how it can be considered a tournament at all. The scenes where the guards or random people push you back in the arena are just them doing so under their own will so they can see some action. You aren't confined to any specific area as seen in the Cage vs. Goro fight posted above. There is no such thing as a DQ in MK. BFR happens ALL THE TIME, we know this because of Scorpion.

2. You are correct that they show many fights in the standard arena. BUT most fights involving Goro happen in his lair.

As you can see their are visible dark halls multiple hallways. How far do they stretch? Don't know because gameplay restricts it for obvious reasons. The dark long hallways seem endless, but who knows. While those would HELP Nightwings cause, by no means am i going to say advantage NW, because they are in GOROS lair afterall. And although it is his lair (who would know the dark corridors better than him) Goro isn't much for Sneaking up on opponents. I mean, you can hear his footsteps for crying out loud. So even with familiarity on his side, i say its even battle field because it ACTUALLY plays into Dicks strengths more than Goros.

3. Of course Dick has his erkrima and wing dings. They are very much apart of his normal costume. No, i do not think NW has the punching power to KO Goro with one blow. But wit his durability, agility and strength, he can and WILL outlast Goro and beat him down.

Here he is fighting Barry Pierce. A metahuman who when concentrating is said to be invulnerable. He fights him and beats him down long enough to the point where he is to tired to concentrate. Then finally KO's him by punching him threw a wall.

@sachmoo said:

There are very few times i would ever use injustice to prove a point. This is not one. And i hope your not trying to use a 'Hack' ^ for evidence.

But allow me to tear down most of what you put in there.

1. Search and scour the internet, pretty much the only rule of MK is, 'You cannot turn down a challenge'. Whether it be from an opponent or Shang. We know the rules of win 10 straight, and all that long term stuff. But as far as the battles go, anything goes. matter of fact, the rules of MK are so nonexistent, i don't see how it can be considered a tournament at all. The scenes where the guards or random people push you back in the arena are just them doing so under their own will so they can see some action. You aren't confined to any specific area as seen in the Cage vs. Goro fight posted above. There is no such thing as a DQ in MK. BFR happens ALL THE TIME, we know this because of Scorpion.

2. You are correct that they show many fights in the standard arena. BUT most fights involving Goro happen in his lair.

As you can see their are visible dark halls multiple hallways. How far do they stretch? Don't know because gameplay restricts it for obvious reasons. The dark long hallways seem endless, but who knows. While those would HELP Nightwings cause, by no means am i going to say advantage NW, because they are in GOROS lair afterall. And although it is his lair (who would know the dark corridors better than him) Goro isn't much for Sneaking up on opponents. I mean, you can hear his footsteps for crying out loud. So even with familiarity on his side, i say its even battle field because it ACTUALLY plays into Dicks strengths more than Goros.

3. Of course Dick has his erkrima and wing dings. They are very much apart of his normal costume. No, i do not think NW has the punching power to KO Goro with one blow. But wit his durability, agility and strength, he can and WILL outlast Goro and beat him down.

Here he is fighting Barry Pierce. A metahuman who when concentrating is said to be invulnerable. He fights him and beats him down long enough to the point where he is to tired to concentrate. Then finally KO's him by punching him threw a wall.

I put that video up there because you mentioned gameplay and how slow Goro was, that was all. Like I said in my previous post, GP doesn't tell the whole story, even though the gameplay shown wasn't that "slow". Also, yes to play as Goro you have to hack the game, but nothing was done to alter the Goro's gameplay in anyway; all it did was unlock him.

Also, I only mentioned Injustice because most of my NW knowledge comes from the Injustice universe, and not the comics proper.

But anyway...

1) What you cited as the rules of MK are really just the general rules of engagement for each realm.

All the tournament's fights took place in an arena like space where both parties stood and fought where there weren't/wasn't room for the hit and run tactics like there could be in a non-tournament sanctioned street fight fight (like in the scan you provided). Keep in mind that fights like that did happen during the MK9 story line, but I don't think any of those were sanctioned tournament battles. Like I said in my other post, the "majority" of the first tournaments matches took place in the Courtyard, but also keep in mind that when the second tournament happened, it was exclusively held in Kahn's Coliseum.

To address your Scorpion/Subzero example directly, the Scorpion vs Subzero fight in the first tournament wasn't an official tournament battle as both Scorpion and Subzero were fighting on the side of Outworld; it was the same for the Scorpion vs Cyrax/Sektor battle that happened just prior. The only reason that fight took place at all at the tournament was because Scorpion wanted to have an "honorable" victory over Subzero (which has been a theme MK has held to from the beginning). Also remember, Cyrax fought in an official tournament fight the next day against JC.

2) Within an actual MK tournament there is no running, and there is no hiding to get better positioning, as I already explained/showed in my previous post, but you are right that Goro's fights normally do take Place in Goro's lair (I was gonna mention that but, ehhh). That fact alone though doesn't really change anything. Like I said already, if there were more expansive arenas then yes NW would have more of a chance...but there aren't.

3) The OP says hand-to-hand, which is why I didn't go directly to weapons. Goro has used weapons too though...

...but that is whatever. Dick can have his weapons in this fight, but I'd still like to see some feats with them just so I can get a good understanding of what he can do with them.

And regarding your scan, I'd need more info about that fight to truly have a understanding of what I am looking at. I get that you are showing that NW hit that dude through a wall, but it is just hard for me to tell what exactly is going on in that scan as NW just appears from no where. Was he swinging in? Was that a running kick? I just don't know.

Also, that kick is NW's exact kick from Injustice. Funny.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@sachmoo said:

I put that video up there because you mentioned gameplay and how slow Goro was, that was all. Like I said in my previous post, GP doesn't tell the whole story, even though the gameplay shown wasn't that "slow". Also, yes to play as Goro you have to hack the game, but nothing was done to alter the Goro's gameplay in anyway; all it did was unlock him.

Also, I only mentioned Injustice because most of my NW knowledge comes from the Injustice universe, and not the comics proper.

But anyway...

1) What you cited as the rules of MK are really just the general rules of engagement for each realm.

All the tournament's fights took place in an arena like space where both parties stood and fought where there weren't/wasn't room for the hit and run tactics like there could be in a non-tournament sanctioned street fight fight (like in the scan you provided). Keep in mind that fights like that did happen during the MK9 story line, but I don't think any of those were sanctioned tournament battles. Like I said in my other post, the "majority" of the first tournaments matches took place in the Courtyard, but also keep in mind that when the second tournament happened, it was exclusively held in Kahn's Coliseum.

To address your Scorpion/Subzero example directly, the Scorpion vs Subzero fight in the first tournament wasn't an official tournament battle as both Scorpion and Subzero were fighting on the side of Outworld; it was the same for the Scorpion vs Cyrax/Sektor battle that happened just prior. The only reason that fight took place at all at the tournament was because Scorpion wanted to have an "honorable" victory over Subzero (which has been a theme MK has held to from the beginning). Also remember, Cyrax fought in an official tournament fight the next day against JC.

2) Within an actual MK tournament there is no running, and there is no hiding to get better positioning, as I already explained/showed in my previous post, but you are right that Goro's fights normally do take Place in Goro's lair (I was gonna mention that but, ehhh). That fact alone though doesn't really change anything. Like I said already, if there were more expansive arenas then yes NW would have more of a chance...but there aren't.

3) The OP says hand-to-hand, which is why I didn't go directly to weapons. Goro has used weapons too though...

...but that is whatever. Dick can have his weapons in this fight, but I'd still like to see some feats with them just so I can get a good understanding of what he can do with them.

And regarding your scan, I'd need more info about that fight to truly have a understanding of what I am looking at. I get that you are showing that NW hit that dude through a wall, but it is just hard for me to tell what exactly is going on in that scan as NW just appears from no where. Was he swinging in? Was that a running kick? I just don't know.

Also, that kick is NW's exact kick from Injustice. Funny.

I have to disagree on the Scorpion vs Cyrax/Sektor fight. Shang Stung clearly stood up and said, "A challange! Scorpion vs. Cyrax and Sektor!" The rules as i interpret them are that if a challenge is offered and not accepted, than it is viewed as a loss for the opponent. I believe Shang said as much in the 1st movie. So they should have been eliminated at that point, but Cyrax fought again? The rules of the tourney are so finicky. Thats neither here nor there.

Anyways, Where are you getting the No hiding, running or using stealth rule from? As i stated earlier, Johnny Cage did the opposite in the movie. As stated earlier, i try to gather info from all mediums and try and meld it together. But if you can find where the rules clearly state no running, then i will take it into account.

He said NW gets his weapons if MK would allow it. I think we can certainly agree on that. And he always has those items on his person so it would be OOC for him to NOT have them. Goro has HAD items, but that isn't the norm. Now since he isn't restricted to game mechanics he could in all honesty grab the skeleton hanging on the wall in the pic i posted above and us it to his advantage. So could Dick, and there are many scans of Dick using random items laying around to his advantage. Goro (to my knowledge) does not.

In that scan i provided, Dick was fighting Barry Pierce for a while and didn't get hit much at all. He wore him down mentally so he couldn't stay concentrated to stay invulnerable. He knocks him into the room, where he tells his brother he is tired. That's from Dick whopping him around. Then he kicks him into the wall, and punches him through it for the KO.

Yeah Shang did say "A Challenge!", but that is not grounds for an official tournament match; and if a challenge isn't accepted between two fighters on the same side, how would that equate to a tournament loss anyway? The tournament is between Outworld and Earthrealm, if Outworld challenges Outworld, at best that would be a side fight that has no bearing on the overall tournament. IDK. From all the team tournaments I've witnessed, for a member of a team to be eliminated they have to loose to a member of the opposite team...or be DQ'd (or killed like Subzero was). Regardless, it is a fact that many of the actual tournament fights were not shown in the MK9 story mode (who eliminated Sonya?).

And I guess I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you on the ground rules of the tournament with regard about the fighters being able to run to higher ground. As much as I scoured the net (I swear I saw/read something), I cannot find what I want/need to put a nail in that argument so that can be an arena specific point. I think really the only person who can now definitively put an end to this particular discussion is the OP, and him saying which arena the fight would actually take place in. Also, I'm fine with Dick getting his weapons, just as I'm fine with Goro not having any, I was just throwing that out there (this is why the OP needs to be/try to be as detailed as possible).

Anyway, since were have been comparing Dick to KL and LK for the most part up to this point in order to see where he stacks up, and to see if he hits hard enough to hurt Goro, I wanted to post these pieces of info/scans just to put into perspective where I'm coming from for anyone reading. I'm not sure if I've posted this anywhere else on CV, but like wise, I've personally never seen anyone else post anything like this on CV either. I did this research a while ago...but anyway, here...

This is Mohs hardness scale...

Mohs hardness scale is used to show the durability of various materials from plasitcs to concrete, to various pure metals and alloys. I've posted many times before on CV that MK characters can break concrete/limestone level materials with single strikes due to what they have shown while taking part in the "test your might" mini-game within the MK games, and what has been shown in various instances in the comics. And though the TYM game goes up through titanium, and up to diamond (a 10 on the scale), I typically don't go all the way to the top in my arguments, even though IMO I could. I do use titanium from time to time however, because, well...

...titanium is a 6 on the mohs scale of hardness, and as you will see, I am being very generous when I make that argument.

As I've said before, MK characters have been seen breaking a multiude of materials from wood, which is between a 2 and 3 on the scale (most say), (and take note of the speed in this scan as well)...

...to concrete, a solid 3 on the scale,...

But yeah...

...Liu breaks corundum (ruby), which is a 9 on the scale, as a child.

To reach the upper echelons of the Shaolin (in the MK-verse), this was/is one of the tests they had to pass. As you can see, the master was surprised at the feat that was achieved, but not because it was broken, but because of who broke it. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Kung Lao, or any of the other combatant for that matter, could break it also (it is because I have no scans of them breaking it which is why I usually just downgrade and go with titanium or concrete), but regardless, I think my point is made. Liu and Kung can HIT HARD, and not just hard for a human, but extremely hard in general. That was one of the main reasons the reasons they were successful against Goro, who does stuff like...

(FYI: this scan takes place directly after the scan where Liu broke that stone) and this...

...as well as taking lightning bolts to the chest, among other things.

PS: While I was looking around I found this scan...

...pretty much the same feat you showed for NW. But regardless, if NW could produce that same level of strength as LK or KL, coupled with enough skill, I'd be convinced he could take Goro out heads up.

I guess the OP said you could use the MK comics? Then again the pic for Goro isn't canon so...guess it works. But see now...arguments are actually being made for MK here due to the use of comics, rather then just speculation or what have you on the MK games and what happpened/didn't happen.

Without them...what could you possibly argue for MK? Nothing.....are the MK comics non-canon? Yes, but are they better to use then to use nothing at all when arguing for MK? Yes.

While comic characters can have non-canon stuff, they also have canon stuff for them too. Game characters...usually don't have this because it's the player playing the game for the majority and cutscenes at times don't always show what the character can actually do.

Yet you may have comics that show what said character or characters can really do outside of gameplay. So...I don't see why you can't use the MK comics for an argument.

In short folks, would you rather go into mindless speculation of what a character could do? Or would you rather look at the comics of said character(even if they aren't canon) to see what they can do?

.....Hm...sorry for going on a long post that has nothing to do with the battle lol.

@wolfrazer: Actually, the mods of CV said that the Malibu comics for MK could be used over a year ago, it's just that many of the members on CV choose to fight that when ever I do choose to use them. Regardless though, most of the proofs I chose to use, I prove using cinematic stills and lore...but still many members fight me on those too.

Did you see that feat of speed I showed for Kung Lao in post #27 of this thread?

Oh yeah, never mind. That one didn't count because it wasn't in a comic.

@onilordasmodeus: They did?....Don't remember that...though I vaguely recall something as such. As for the speed feat ya I saw, but then you're gonna have people saying "well Shaolin monks isn't canon so they can't do that" which is just /facepalm.

Yeah...ok game isn't canon, but why would the powers/abilities shown by the characters in the cutscenes be non-canon, when it's apart of their skill set regularly?

Oh speaking of, I have found a site where all the MK comics are. Or is that where you are also getting your scans?

@onilordasmodeus: Very impressive Scans. And yeah, i guess a lot of what we are debating could be answered in the OP. NO offense, but putting the blanket, 'Mortal Kombat tourney rules apply' doesn't answer much.

Also, i never got into the KL/LK vs. NW debate.

@sachmoo: Ok, Let me clarify (from MK wiki).

• 1. Every generation, competing realms would send their best fighters in to a single-elimination martial arts tournament; the victor of the tournament is crowned Mortal Kombat Grand Champion. If a realm can garner ten straight victories via their Grand Champion or another representative of theirs, they earn the right to invade the opposing realm. The Grand Champion him/herself is granted stunted aging and immortality until the next tournament. This is the ONLY way for a realm to invade and conquer another.
• 2. Mortal Kombat, once declared, cannot be refused by either party.
• 3. Special powers can be used in the tournament (Mortal Kombat: Conquest only, although it is entirely possible this rule was in place prior to the first game, storywise).
• 4. Any violation of the above rules is considered an act of treason against the realms and the Elder Gods themselves, and will be dealt with accordingly and swiftly.

So basically:

• It doesn't expressly say Nigtwing can't bring his shenanigans to the fight.
• There is no mention of battle boundaries, so I guess either warrior can just run away (not sure at which point this counts as a DQ)
• Point 2 is a bit vague, but I'm guessing this refers to the official tournament rounds, and not the "I challenge you to a fight" thing. I suppose this may be an extra-official aspect of the tournament, where turning down a challenge is frowned upon, and considered a lack of honor (honor is important among many of the characters).

As to the canon/non-canon argument, MK comics should be considered canon, as should the game lore (cut-scenes and in-game literature), whereas actual gameplay features (moves, fatalities, etc.) should not, and neither should the movies or cartoons.

@wolfrazer:Yeah, they did. Some saw it, even Nick saw it; but like others he won't acknowledge it, and I think it is because he just really doesn't want to debate. I could bring up the thread if I need to, but at this point I'd have to search my memory banks to even find it.

Anyway, yeah, Kamidogu.com is where I go to get all the MK comics, though I have downloaded most of them already.

Also, a little known fact that I'm also fought on all the time, (shhh) MK Shaolin Monks...is canon to the OG timeline.

When MKSM came out they said they were going to tell the story of what actually happened in the MK2 era, but because of how everything played out in the actual game, most people (myself included) chose to not take it as canon. At the time, and still to this day to a degree, I'd rather take the untold, jumbled, mish-mash of events that happened in the MK2 game, rather than what happened in MKSM...but in reality MKSM is an official game that came from (now) NRS, and it is the storyline they chose to stick with in the games that followed afterward (MKA, and to a degree MK9). Take note that I realize that some of MK9's story is DRASTICALLY different from what happened in MKSM, but before MK9's release, MKSM wasn't so far out of left field in conjunction with the rest of the games...it's just that people didn't like it from a story perspective.

As a case in point for what I'm saying (probably the biggest one), take a close look at Kung Lao's "change" throughout the MK series. In the OG timeline, KL was a mysterious character who was a pacifist and chose to leave the Shaolin because he didn't want to take part in the MK tournament. He was more mature than Liu Kang, and though he was haunted by his ancestor's past, he fought not to go down that path and thus was never in direct competition with Liu. MKSM changed that and made them direct rivals, and it also made KL look like a whinny kid, pretty much exactly how MK9 reiterated.

MK9 was the game that actually solidified it, for me any. It told me that that was the story they were keeping up with in all the games that followed after MKSM. Check it out...

This is from Raiden's MK9 flashback...that didn't happen in MK9, nor in MK1 or MK2. This only happened in MK Shaolin Monks. If you remember, in MK9 Raiden called Kung Lao out while he was clothed in a guards uniform. If things would have played out like "normal" he would have fought Baraka, but at it turned out he fought Scorpion instead.