Darth Sidious vs Darth Caedus (RULES)

Morals are standard.

Standard equipment.

Caedus is at his peak, before getting his arm chopped off.

Sidious powerlevels, and the locations, are in the following rounds:

Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master. Takes place in the open streets of Coruscant. Nobody will interfere.

Round 2: Post-Plagueis, pre-RotS. Takes place on the bridge of the Anakin Solo. Nobody will interfere.

Round 3: Sidious as he was in RotS. Takes place in the Chancellor's office.

I would say that Caedus would win round 1 pretty comfortably. Round 2 and 3 are pretty close, I'm not sure who would win there.

Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master.

Round 1 is pretty vague. Do you mean just before he kills Plagueis, or earlier?

Regardless, Round 2 and 3 i'd say Sidious wins.

Morals? What morals? This is Palpatine we’re talking about. Caedus isn’t exactly a shining example of morality either.

But in any event it doesn’t matter at all.

Round 1 Caedus should win this, though I don’t know much about Palpatine as a Sith Apprentice. Rounds 2 and 3 Sidious should win handily.

@JamesKM716 said:

Round 1: Palpatine as he was throughout the novel Darth Plagueis. Before he kills his master.

Round 1 is pretty vague. Do you mean just before he kills Plagueis, or earlier?

Regardless, Round 2 and 3 i'd say Sidious wins.

... that is essentially what I said. Any feats before Plagueis' death apply.

@JediXMan: AH, in that case, i'd give round 1 to Caedus, i think

Not sure why everyone thinks round 1 is such a clear victory for Caedus. Sidious by the time of Plagueis' death could fight faster than Maul could see, smash people's skulls, fall from over ten stories unharmed, telepathically manipulate other Sith Lords, use Choke on other Sith Lords, telekinetically crumble buildings, manipulate heat, etc., and he was a master of various martial arts forms and had outskilled Maul. Maybe Caedus does win that round, but the effort, or lack thereof, he is being suggested to win with is exaggerated.

@Silver2467:

Ah, went back to that avatar? Oddly suits you.

What do you think of this fight?

Round 1: After A decent fight I would say Cad wins

Rounds 2 and 3: Sidious after another decent fight.

So does Round 3 allow interference?

Round 1 is a heavy duel before a victor is decided. It can actually still go two ways.

Round 2 and 3 definitely lean in Palpatine's favour, but not easily.

@JediXMan said:

Ah, went back to that avatar? Oddly suits you.

Certainly.

@ShootingNova said:

So does Round 3 allow interference?

Well, I figured it wasn't necessary. That location was empty, whereas the other two typically have people

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

@Silver2467 said:

And even Caedus has his own inconsistencies. In Invincible, Caedus was sniped by Jaina...which, of course, makes no sense.

I chalk that off to Luke's amp. He amped Jaina and was messing around with Caedus' head. It's possible that he was doing that a little even before they crossed blades.

Invincible was full of PIS, CIS, and WIS. All of them combined. I would have written the end fight very differently. Really, the fact that Tenal Ka and his daughter were in danger should not have made Caedus weaker; it should have made him want to rip Jaina apart because she stood in his way. At that point in his life, the absolute only thing he really cared about was his daughter. And he kind of Obi-Wan-style copped out and just let Jaina kill him. It was so stupid.

I chalk that off to Luke's amp. He amped Jaina and was messing around with Caedus' head. It's possible that he was doing that a little even before they crossed blades.

Invincible was full of PIS, CIS, and WIS. All of them combined. I would have written the end fight very differently. Really, the fact that Tenal Ka and his daughter were in danger should not have made Caedus weaker; it should have made him want to rip Jaina apart because she stood in his way. At that point in his life, the absolute only thing he really cared about was his daughter. And he kind of Obi-Wan-style copped out and just let Jaina kill him. It was so stupid.

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan: There's still senators, guards, and possibly random Jedi assigned to protect the Chancellor or a senator :)

They took the day off.

LOL.

@DarkScarecrow: Caedus.

I found another speed feat for Caedus in Invincible . He waved his lightsaber quickly enough to form a a red fan and moved in an unidentifiable blur. None of that is particularly extraordinary, but he did this almost immediately after Jaina stabbed him through the gut (which she accomplished by catching him by surprise....again, makes no sense). Also, I remembered another one in in Inferno; when Caedus was dueling Luke, he fought so quickly that he disappeared behind the "ribbons" of light trailing behind the movements of his blade. Like I said before, it can be argued what parallels could be surmised between Caedus' speed and Palpatine's. 
 
Could Round 2 be clarified? Are we discussing AotC Sidious or Palpatine during the Clone Wars?

@Silver2467:

Well let me ask you: how wide are the gaps, would you say, between:

AotC Palpatine

Clone Wars

RotS

I want there to be somewhat of a gap so the rounds don't become too similar.

The feat in Invincible could be more a testament to his extreme pain threshold (which might exceed Palpatine. Caedus' ability to take pain and draw further power from it is rather consistent... usually... kinda...).

The feat in Invincible could be more a testament to his extreme pain threshold (which might exceed Palpatine. Caedus' ability to take pain and draw further power from it is rather consistent... usually... kinda...).

@Silver2467:

Not to mention his ability to fight past the pain coming from the sonic pulses utilized by Thrackan Sal-Solo in Betrayal. He fought past the pain and destroyed the source. Not a bad feat at all.

@Silver2467 said:

Also, I have to wonder: Between Sidious and Caedus, which do you think is superior with Concealment (and this is excluding Jacen's Fallanassi techniques, like Force Immersion, since Palpatine is not trained in those and those extend beyond simple invisibility in the Force but instead include literal invisibility as well; I am isolating this purely to Force Concealment)? On the one hand, Palpatine could stand in the Jedi council chamber without detection of his Force sensitivity; on the other hand, Caedus could even blind enemies during duels, such as when Jaina's precog was rendered largely obsolete because of her inability to sense Caedus in the Force.

That's hard. While, yes, Palpatine's ability to hide his own presence from other Jedi is impressive, he did so when he wasn't utilizing his more impressive abilities, whereas Caedus was still using combative abilities in some of those circumstances. I'd tend to favor Caedus in this regard, but it's hard. It could go either way.

That's hard. While, yes, Palpatine's ability to hide his own presence from other Jedi is impressive, he did so when he wasn't utilizing his more impressive abilities, whereas Caedus was still using combative abilities in some of those circumstances. I'd tend to favor Caedus in this regard, but it's hard. It could go either way.

@Silver2467:

@JediXMan:

Just wanted to say great discussion,wish more of the battle threads could be as well thought out as ones like these.

@Silver2467: Speaking of swordsmanship was there a point where Palpatine didn't use a lightsaber or carry one? I have heard that he vowed not to use one after ROTS,is that true?

@Silver2467 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: No. After RotS, Palpatine dueled Luke twice (he also personally killed the rogue Hand Arden Lyn, though whether this was done with a lightsaber or not is undisclosed; maybe it was done with a weapon, maybe not). Palpatine did consider a lightsaber an inferior tool than the Force, but there was never a point where he resigned his lightsaber altogether.

Okay but he fought Luke in a clone body,so maybe it had something to do with getting older,just a thought.He did have a lightsaber in Force Unleashed too.Though he didn't actually wield it.

@Silver2467 said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Sidious still kept his lightsaber in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, and I have never seen any sources that say he retired his lightsaber. But really, the Emperor became reclusive during the Dark Times, and his appearances between RotS and TESB are not as numerable as before RotS, not to mention his appearances during the Dark Times are virtually always as a background figure (though that was the case, to an extent, during the earlier sections of the Rise of the Empire era as well but not as much). Most of what we know of his activities is that he dedicated himself to studying the Force, established his Dark Side Adepts (the Inquisitorius, the Hands, etc.), ordered the Imperial navy to constantly grow, commanded reconstruction of certain worlds, and subjugated more worlds (this was done to enslave particular species, exploit resources, expand the Empire, etc., though the subjection of worlds was accomplished both through his political maneuvering but also through sector governors without his direct micromanaging), but what types of new inspirations his Force studies engendered in his opinions on lightsabers, such as how it might have colored his thoughts on carrying a lightsaber, have never been stated.

Okay,thanks.

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan: Between Caedus and RotS Palpatine, who would you consider the superior swordmaster?

Hm. Honestly, I think Palpatine is more skilled in lightsaber combat. I think Caedus might be faster, however.

 I think Caedus might be faster, however.

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan said:

I think Caedus might be faster, however.

Really? Why?

*shrug* I just do. I have to go digging around my books to confirm some feats. I do think that matching Luke is impressive - something I don't see Palpatine at this level doing.

@Silver2467 said:

@JediXMan said:

I think Caedus might be faster, however.

Really? Why?

*shrug* I just do. I have to go digging around my books to confirm some feats. I do think that matching Luke is impressive - something I don't see Palpatine at this level doing.

@Silver2467:

I have some reading and writing I have to finish up before I can dedicate some time to actively researching and not going off my own memory. I'll try to do what I can when I am able.

round 1 darth caedus round 2 and 3 is palpatine

@jedixman: I know Silver is absent at the moment but to my knowledge you've been compiling feats for Caedus for his respect thread, yes? Do you have any changes to your opinion, or anything to supplement it? I mostly agree with Silver but I am certainly going to be more lenient in respects to Caedus's speed and leave them at equals. I agree that Caedus wins the first round, but with difficulty.

To be honest, Jaina faring better than she should have still makes sense. Invincible definitely didn't have the best plot but it at least made sense, as compared to Mara's performance in Sacrifice. Now, seeing as though I did make her respect thread recently, I have every respect for the character, but she shouldn't be nearly overwhelming Jacen as she did in that fight.

Bump

Caedus.

Sidious in RotS beats Caedus. AotC Sidious is just too vague.

Caedus probably beats TPM Sidious, though, in an excellent fight.

Not sure.

Bump!

I could see Sidious winning all three.

Sidious sweeps.

I'm open to hear a compelling reason why he does not

Round One goes to Caedus in a good fight and the other two go to Sidious

Sidious sweeps.

Sidious for all 3, even TPM Sidious was regarded as ''most powerful Sith Lord in the history'' and he force choked TPM Maul from another planet which rivals his RotS Force feats. As for his lightsaber feats, yeah, I don't think he even practiced with his lightsabers until 19 BBY timeline (where he duels with Maul and Savage, and Yoda / Windu). So he was even more prepared due to his multiple training duels with Maul in TPM. In RotS, he didn't even duel for years yet he was easily rival to the likes of Yoda / Windu. TPM Sidious must be same or even better in that department as well.

Read the above comments from Nova and Silver. That's everything you'll need to know. At worst, Caedus is equal to Plagueis. Being able to contend with a "bloodlusted" Luke, whom at this point was quite a bit stronger than ROTS Sidious, is a great feat. It doesn't matter that Luke was nursing a previous injury. He messed Caedus up, and Caedus never slowed down (he sliced into his kidney during the fight.)

I feel like Caedus wins round 1, with difficulty, but he's the definite winner. Round 2, if he can win, it's by the skin of his teeth. Most likely though, Sidious wins. Round 3, Sidious wins, with difficulty.

Sidious sweeps.