Zorro: hero? or Superhero?

#1 Posted by WolfMonkey (298 posts) - - Show Bio

There's currently a discussion going on about the first superhero. Zorro's name has been brought up and shot down a number of times in it. This is a new topic because I believe it deserves it's own discussion.
Zorro: I'm sure most, if not all of us can agree he's a hero. Question is, does he have have what it takes to be called a superhero?
My friend said "he is in no way super, hes a talented swordsman but thats it, maybe if he was a hand to hand combat specialist, had tons of gadgets, and was basically a ninja with a cape like Bat boy id think differently but hes not"
I reasoned "he is a pretty good hand to hand fighter, and i think his sword skills put him in the category of combat specialist, hand to hand or not. gadgets? 1) sword and whip are all the gadgets he needs, and 2) batman has proven time and again that you dont need the gadgets to be a superhero... they just help. ninja with a cape? compared to the rest of the old west he was. also mask and secret identity help put him in that category"
what are your thoughts?

#2 Edited by Agent9149 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

hes a superhero cause hes super fine besides..if hes not a superhero neither is batman

#3 Edited by TheAmazingCondraic (79 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok well wolf monkey with that line of thinking do you consider Robin Hood a super hero?

#4 Posted by the referee (2523 posts) - - Show Bio

Robin hood is not a hero he is a legend. I couldn't possibly prove my point it's just the way I feel
and Zorro fit in this category too

#5 Posted by TheAmazingCondraic (79 posts) - - Show Bio
@the referee:  Thats a really good point, Zorro and Robin and characters like them are larger than life heros or legends who paved the way for superheros.
But they are NOT superheros
#6 Posted by the referee (2523 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheAmazingCondraic: agreed
#7 Posted by WolfMonkey (298 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm afraid i dont see the line between your "legends" and "superheros"

#8 Posted by TheAmazingCondraic (79 posts) - - Show Bio

ok so im the friend who started this discussion with wolfmonkey here is what we've been saying
 
 Me "but with that line of thinking u could call robin hood a superhero"
 
WolfM " i guess by that line of thinking i would. how about i put it this way: compared to their own times, they were the closest things to superheros that existed, even if compared to today they may not be considered as much. Green Arrow is a lot like robin hood re-tailored for the modern age" 
 
Me " true, but you kind of just made my point "Superhero" is a modern concept so I can't apply it to characters that existed before the concept, its true that Zorro was like the superhero of his time but his fans at the time would just call him a hero and thats what he was" 

#9 Posted by WolfMonkey (298 posts) - - Show Bio

hm.. ok so i guess you've got a point with it being a more modern concept making it harder to relate
but i still want to hear what other people think

#10 Posted by TheAmazingCondraic (79 posts) - - Show Bio
@WolfMonkey:  Legends are before the concept of Superheros and superheros are after
                       The concept of superheros came about after a combination of a lot of ideas and characters including Zorro
#11 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (18976 posts) - - Show Bio

Superhero

#12 Edited by Liberty (9192 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheAmazingCondraic said:

" ok so im the friend who started this discussion with wolfmonkey here is what we've been saying   Me "but with that line of thinking u could call robin hood a superhero"  WolfM " i guess by that line of thinking i would. how about i put it this way: compared to their own times, they were the closest things to superheros that existed, even if compared to today they may not be considered as much. Green Arrow is a lot like robin hood re-tailored for the modern age"  Me " true, but you kind of just made my point "Superhero" is a modern concept so I can't apply it to characters that existed before the concept, its true that Zorro was like the superhero of his time but his fans at the time would just call him a hero and thats what he was"  "

According to Websters dictionary the word (concept) of Superhero was first used in 1917.  Zorro  "The Fox"  first came out in an illustrated magazine in 1919.  He was considered a superhero. He had an alias  as the fox that is what Zorro means.  He fought with a whip and sword instead of a batarang.  He had an underground lair.  like a Batcave.  He was a rich man by day and a vigilante by night.  He hid his identity and adopted one that instilled fear.  He wore a cape and has used his cape as a blind, a trip-mat and a disarming tool.  
 
The only argument that has been stated that differentiates him are the gadgets and I say that is weak.  He is a superhero of another time.  He used things that were available to him in his time period he is not going to have access to the futuristic and technological gadgets the Batman used.
#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

When Zorro stares down White Martians and wins, give me a call. Til then, Pulp Hero.

#14 Posted by danhimself (22720 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" When Zorro stares down White Martians and wins, give me a call. Til then, Pulp Hero. "
exactly
 
Websters is only pointing out that the term superhero was first used in 1917 describing Zorro...by today's standards and as most commonly accepted Superman was the first SUPERhero
#15 Posted by goatman2112 (67 posts) - - Show Bio

The idea of the superhero comes from Superman. To most people, those who predate him are either pulp or pseudo superhero. It is the evolution of the genre that started with Superman. That's why Sherlock Holmes, Captain Nemo, or other literary characters are usually considered Superhero's (league of extraordinary gentlemen not notwithstanding). So zorro is a proto-superhero.

#16 Posted by Segador (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing super about Zorro, I guess he could be dubbed a "hero" though.

#17 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

He's a hero, just a man but does much more than many do.

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