Zatanna Deserves Respect!!!

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#1 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Im sorry, But Zee has been a victim of Sexism long enough!  Why would she be?  You ask.

Let me put this bluntly:  She is, Technically, more powerful than Superman.  In many arcs of DC, Superman has a weakness towards Magic.  Zee, the strongest spellcaster in DC, (Dr. Fate is second, as he/she has been killed way to many times), would be of the few DC person to have an actual advantage over the Man of Steel, (Yes others have gotten Real close, and Apokolips did kill him, but still).

Now think about it, a Woman is more powerful that Superman.  To many writers, that fact actually demotes him in power, so how do you fix it?  You push her off to the side lines for the majority of her career.

And now, not many know about this wonderful woman, and those that do know her compare her to Dr. Stange, who (being male) is obviously more popular.  And I am sorry, but that is just unfair.

Besides, Zatanna is a wonderful character!  She actually has a real personality!  Ever played justice leaugue heroes?  Zee gets all the good lines, is not uber noble like:  Superman, WW, the Bat, Martian, or Greenie; nor does she act like she is high on something throughout the entire game like Flash.  She shows wit, humour, power, and assertiveness without soundng utterly bland. 

...

#2 Edited by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, and something I found on the Web about Zee.

A respect forum from some site I have never hoyd of.

(I removed it for the time, will post a link again soon)

#3 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silverheart

1.Why copy and paste a whole page from KMC when you could post a link to the forums and we could look at the scans ourselves,rather than wasting a page on a thread?
2.What makes you think that people here don't respect Zatanna or know how powerful she is?
3.Superman doesn't have a weakness to magic and he never did.
4.I don't know if Zatanna is more powerful than Dr.Fate.I don't know where you're getting that from.I would like to see some proof.
5.Zatanna will never be as big as Superman.He's an actual superhero..she's not.She's magician.He is DC's posterboy..she was created way afterwards.
6.I think people more compared Zatanna to Scarlet Witch...not Dr.Strange
#4 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Screw Scarlet Witch.  She is not an actual magician, and Zee saves people all the time, making her a hero.  And I was not just saying HERE!  I was saying throughout.  There is a ton of Zee hate.  And look at some more SM bios, you will see a weakness to magic.  And Fate gets all his/her poiwers off of a stupid helmet!  Take away the helm and what does he got?  Nothing.

As to the copy and paste, my bad, I am new.

#5 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"Screw Scarlet Witch.  She is not an actual magician, and Zee saves people all the time, making her a hero.  And I was not just saying HERE!  I was saying throughout.  There is a ton of Zee hate.  And look at some more SM bios, you will see a weakness to magic.  And Fate gets all his/her poiwers off of a stupid helmet!  Take away the helm and what does he got?  Nothing.

As to the copy and paste, my bad, I am new."
Dr.Strange isn't a magician either.He's a Sorcerer.
You misunderstood what I meant.Superman was built to be a superhero.That is what he lives for.Zatanna just happens to save people with her powers.
I don't see any Zatanna hate on comicvine.
Superman doesn't have a weakness to magic.If any bio says he does it's wrong.In fact she helped him lose the vulnerability to magic.He was just as vulnerable to magic as everyone else,no more no less.
What your saying about Dr.Fate doesn't mean much.You can't say he's less powerful than Zatanna because of where he gets his powers from.He's either more powerful than her or he isn't.
#6 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly:  sorcerer, magician, wizard, etc...  They are all the same, and

I must have missed the Zee and SM thingy.  My bad, I cannot see everything, but... on the same point, ever think that the writers did it to take that advantahge away to secure his power.

And when I said throughout, I meant across the web and many other fans I meet in person.

And honestly, power origins play a big part, watching JLU as a kid, I saw Stargirl (whom I have not seen in a while) fighting some random villain.  Her staff was taken from her grasp, and then she was powerless.  Her source played a big part in her defeat.  Put that with a more known character, and there is not much hope for that set of fans.

Oh well.

#7 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"Honestly:  sorcerer, magician, wizard, etc...  They are all the same, and

I must have missed the Zee and SM thingy.  My bad, I cannot see everything, but... on the same point, ever think that the writers did it to take that advantahge away to secure his power.

And when I said throughout, I meant across the web and many other fans I meet in person.

And honestly, power origins play a big part, watching JLU as a kid, I saw Stargirl (whom I have not seen in a while) fighting some random villain.  Her staff was taken from her grasp, and then she was powerless.  Her source played a big part in her defeat.  Put that with a more known character, and there is not much hope for that set of fans.

Oh well.
"
No they aren't.Sorcerer is a higher position than magician and so is Wizard.
Yes...that is exactly why the writers did it.I think it's stupid because Superman is overpowered as it is.

Well..we don't do that on comicvine.People may not acknowledge Zatanna but I don't know of anyone here who hates or dislikes her.

No..they don't.You're either more powerful than someone or you're not.It doesn't matter how you get your powers.
#8 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

The source of your powers determines a weakness.  The bigger the weakness, the weaker the character is.  So, for a power object/suit, take that away and leave them powerless is in fact a pretty big weakness.  Just my opinion.

#9 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"The source of your powers determines a weakness.  The bigger the weakness, the weaker the character is.  So, for a power object/suit, take that away and leave them powerless is in fact a pretty big weakness.  Just my opinion."
Power is connected to offensive ability.Weaknesses don't factor in.
#10 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

I donno....I love Zatanna....I dont know too many people here who have ever said they hated her

#11 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio

i love Zatanna, but that ridiculous outfit has to go.

#12 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"i love Zatanna, but that ridiculous outfit has to go."
She's a magician.What did you expect her to wear?
#13 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio

something that sets her apart from the wannabes

#14 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"something that sets her apart from the wannabes"
I don't know of anyone but her wearing a female magician costume.
#15 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio

all the other stage performers across the universe

it's gimmicky is what i'm saying. Like if i had powers of water and i walk around in a fireman costume.

#16 Posted by G-Man (18922 posts) - - Show Bio

The community here voted Zatanna "Hottest Female" for 2008.  Guess that's a different kind of respect.

Staff
#17 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Sweet!

#18 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"i love Zatanna, but that ridiculous outfit has to go."

Come on!  The Fishnets rule!
#19 Posted by Constantine (16059 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never seen any disrespect for Z

#20 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"pixelized said:
"i love Zatanna, but that ridiculous outfit has to go."

Come on!  The Fishnets rule!"
they're more fitting for black canary than Zay
#21 Posted by Constantine (16059 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to see a new suit

#22 Posted by King Saturn (225200 posts) - - Show Bio
I thought Zatanna got respect ?
#23 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio
Constantine said:
"I've never seen any disrespect for Z"
I am speaking generally.

And Zee is hotter than Canary.
#24 Posted by Constantine (16059 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"Constantine said:
"I've never seen any disrespect for Z"
I am speaking generally.
O.o so was I?
#25 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
And Zee is hotter than Canary."
Maybe but the fishnets suit Dinah more
#26 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Only because she mimicked her mother!  They were not her original idea.

#27 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio

They're part of the Canary Line... Zatanna putting on a pair wasn't original.

#28 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Zatanna.

She's wonderful, she's hot.

She's not more powerful than doc Fate.

#29 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

Persopnally I love Zatannas costume...who cares if its gimmicky....its her and it looks good.......better than tons of other femle characters I could name ...

#30 Posted by Succubus (478 posts) - - Show Bio

Her brother suffers from the same Gimmicky thing.

#31 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Silverheart said:
"Constantine said:
"I've never seen any disrespect for Z"
I am speaking generally.

And Zee is hotter than Canary."
Zatanna is only as hot as the artist who draws her will make her.So technically there are times when Canary could look better in comparison.
#32 Posted by Silverheart (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh, I guess.  I have just seen hotter pics of Zee than Canary.

#33 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes gimmicky can be good...

The Penguin, Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow, and Harley Quinn are just a few of Batman's villains whose costumes are gimmicky...heck Batman himselfs cowl would seem gimmicky if we werent so used to it.

Many of the best characters costumes are gimmicky....its what sets them apart and makes thier Identity.

#34 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Sometimes gimmicky can be good...

The Penguin, Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow, and Harley Quinn are just a few of Batman's villains whose costumes are gimmicky...heck Batman himselfs cowl would seem gimmicky if we werent so used to it.

Many of the best characters costumes are gimmicky....its what sets them apart and makes thier Identity."
The costumes aren't gimmicky..they go with their personas.For someone names the Joker to wear anything else but clown attire would make no sense.
#35 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont see the difference between Zatanna wearing a magician outfit and Joker wearing a clown outfit?

#36 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"I dont see the difference between Zatanna wearing a magician outfit and Joker wearing a clown outfit?"
There is no difference.My point is it isn't gimmicky for either to wear what they are wearing because it fits their persona.
#37 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

aight then we agree lol

#38 Posted by Swagga Vance (108 posts) - - Show Bio

=]

#39 Posted by Calvin (3479 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe I've read Justice League comics were Zatana was presented as the most powerful of all.
But Superman is always seen as earth's champion. Even without counting with Superman there are other heroes who have far more experience than Zatana, and have win against many supervillains more powerful than themselves.

Of course Superman doesn't have any invulnerability against Zatana. I would say that Zatana's powers works in Supes just like it would work on any other, like Batman, for example.

The thing is that power is not the only important aspect in consideration.

#40 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"I dont see the difference between Zatanna wearing a magician outfit and Joker wearing a clown outfit?"
it'd be like Storm Jean Grey walking around in a big bird outfit or cyclops dressing up as an ogre. Zatanna works on a stage in the same thing she saves the world in... that's pretty gross.
#41 Edited by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about.

#42 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about."
Phoenix = Bird. A cyclops is an ogre.. the symbolism is what i want Zatanna to have. I like a little mystery with my characters, i want to look at them and wonder what they do, Zatanna in her top hat and magic wand doesn't really leave much to imagine.
#43 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio

Zatanna would probably get more respect if she didn't look like such a sex abject :P

#44 Posted by Citizen Vance (200 posts) - - Show Bio
Donnieman v5.1 said:
"Zatanna would probably get more respect if she didn't look like such a sex object :P"
fixed.
#45 Posted by Citizen Vance (200 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about."
Saying Jean wearing a bird on her chest doesn't make sense is like saying Tigra should look more like a Lion.
#46 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

pixelized said:

"Lunacyde said:
"Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about."
Phoenix = Bird. A cyclops is an ogre.. the symbolism is what i want Zatanna to have. I like a little mystery with my characters, i want to look at them and wonder what they do, Zatanna in her top hat and magic wand doesn't really leave much to imagine."




Neither does Beast, Joker, Spider-Man, Mad Hatter, Green Goblin, Rhino, Scorpion, they are all very straightforward with thier costumes exactly who they are and what they do. And that is just a very brief list.


And Jean Grey isnt and hasnt always been the Phoenix, and when she is Phoenix she does have a bird on her outfit.

#47 Posted by Citizen Vance (200 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"

pixelized said:

"Lunacyde said:
"Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about."
Phoenix = Bird. A cyclops is an ogre.. the symbolism is what i want Zatanna to have. I like a little mystery with my characters, i want to look at them and wonder what they do, Zatanna in her top hat and magic wand doesn't really leave much to imagine."




Neither does Beast, Joker, Spider-Man, Mad Hatter, Green Goblin, Rhino, Scorpion, they are all very straightforward with thier costumes exactly who they are and what they do. And that is just a very brief list.


And Jean Grey isnt and hasnt always been the Phoenix, and when she is Phoenix she does have a bird on her outfit.

"
Why doesn't Jean having a bird on her outfit make sense though?
#48 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

I never said that didnt make sense

#49 Posted by pixelized (62883 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"

pixelized said:

"Lunacyde said:
"Jean Grey walking around in a giant bird costume doesnt even make sense lol.....Cyclops h the visor that makes it look like one eye that is the symbolism. Not very good examples to argue your point,..i suppose she should wear something cute and bland and look like a host of other female characters with no flair who I couldnt care less about."
Phoenix = Bird. A cyclops is an ogre.. the symbolism is what i want Zatanna to have. I like a little mystery with my characters, i want to look at them and wonder what they do, Zatanna in her top hat and magic wand doesn't really leave much to imagine."




Neither does Beast, Joker, Spider-Man, Mad Hatter, Green Goblin, Rhino, Scorpion, they are all very straightforward with thier costumes exactly who they are and what they do. And that is just a very brief list.


And Jean Grey isnt and hasnt always been the Phoenix, and when she is Phoenix she does have a bird on her outfit.

"
Beast has an outward mutation, there's no hiding that he's blue and furry. Spider man didn't do a literal transformation to his outfit as Rhino, Green Goblin ,and Scorpion have. They're villains and no one cares about them anyway.

Yes, it's subtle is the point that i was making, as opposed to attaching feathers and a beak to herself.
#50 Posted by Lunacyde (19523 posts) - - Show Bio

Alrite I guess Zatanna should just wear a tuxedo t-shirt from now on then....its more subtle

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