Young Justice - My thoughts on Invasion (Spoilers)

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Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

With the first episode out I thought that I'd go over the things that I think about Season 2. I know that there are a couple of threads on this, but really, they should have no effect on this blog and vice-versa. Firstly, I can understand why a lot of people are angry at this change, there was still a lot of character development to be had with the characters that were there. Not just with the characters themselves, but more specifically with the relationships that were had within the team, because just at the end of the season we got to see a couple of key romances happen that we were all waiting for and therefore I can understand how random and abrupt it seems.

Dick Grayson as Nightwing

Now, anyone who has a facsimile of knowledge on me knows that I absolutely love Dick Grayson and more specifcally my love comes from his as Nightwing. So it should come as no suprise ot anyone that Dick Grayson being present as Nightwing, not to mention as still a main character regardless of the involvement of Tim Drake as Robin is a huge upside. I mean, huge. I love the two of them together and a chance for the two of them to interact is something that doesn't come that often, specially not in animated series. Easily the biggest positive of Season 2 would have to be this.

Missing Team Members

I'm curious as to see where they're going with this, but I really hope that Artemis gets a chance to appear in this season again as a main character. I think its entirely possible that either Wally has become the Flash (but I think he'd have appeared already) or that he has retired much like he did in Comics but this time instead of being with Magenta, Francis Kane, its very possible that he's decided to retire with Artemis Crook instead. I think it'd be interesting if they took this direction and we'd have the ability to see Barry die and Wally reluctantly take up his place instead.

Lastly, lets not forget that Aqualad is nowhere to be seen and I'm indeed quite curious to see what he's been up to. Easily one of the better characters of the show, he lead to his own character being created in the comics and I think that he's going to have some big role to play in what comes up. Unlike many, I highly doubt that he will have turned into a villain and to be honest I find the plot convoluted. Perhaps its possible that Kal'dur is the king of Atlantis, replacing Arthur since the latter is known to not "want" the Throne from time to Time?

New Members

Interesting additions, I did feel that there were too many characters added. Lagoon Boy and Blue Beetle were good additions, but they didn't get the character development that they needed, while Tim definitely made a good appearance in the show. Batgirl felt extra, to be honest I wonder if Dick has a relationship with her or not, or whether he still has a relationship with Zee. Regardless, I wasn't happy with the appearance of Wonder Girl and while I definitely feel that she should have been a part of the team, I'm not sure her appearance was handled all that well. Both of the last two characters' voice actors felt out of place as well.

Its also possible that Jason Todd existed, as hinted by the "Just Don't Die".

Relationships

I like the tension that they're building with Superboy and Miss Martian, but I don't like the fact that there's a possiblity that they're rearing this up to be a Wonder Girl/Superboy pairing. I'd much rather that Superboy and Miss Martian stick with each other by the end of the show and that Wonder Girl ends up going with Tim Drake, if there's an absolute necessity for the everyone in the team to be paired up together. (I'm also officially shipping them in Comics, as of the New 52, by the way).

I'd also like a Nightwing/Zee love thing instead, I don't care if they make it a love triangle with Babs because of the comics, I'd just rather they didn't go with the latter as the full blown romance option. Regardless, if there's one thing that will force me to skin everyone in DC alive, it'd have to be if the pull the Batman TAS card and have Zatanna hook up with Bruce. Which seems to be more likely, if it happens.

The Roy Harper incident

It seems to be quite apparent that the real Roy Harper is going to become Arsenal, as he was quite obviously missing an arm and thus the codename will fit. Not to mention that he's probably been in some cryogenic stasis so he's still the same age as he was. That said I thought that the plotline with him was ridiculous. So ridiculous, that when it was mentioned I ignored it for a lie that the Justice League was telling the Young Justice team. I'll be damned, that they were telling half truths instead, but it still doesn't make sense that they naturally believed what the League had told them. Regardless of the plothole, I won't mind if Red Arrow goes rogue just to see his relationship with Chesire, but I definitely hope that Arsenal doesn't, not to mention the age gap if he's been perserved in the stasis.

In conclusion, I just hope that looking back, they don't make this all about the new members of the team and completely forget the old memebers, having them as recurring characters, because to me, that just wouldn't do.

Can't seem to upload the pic, so you guys'll have to stick with boring text.

/ramblings.

#1 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: in regards to Dick and relationships: how would you feel if at sometime during the season Kory is introduced? With the show focusing more on space this seems possible and would be a good addition to the YJ team, IMO at least

#2 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: That would actually be pretty interesting actually. Maybe with the REBELS. But yes, if she were to be introduced to the team I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't like it if she was forced into a relationship with Dick.

#3 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

ok it was definitely not a smooth transition, but im sure the show will bridge the gap and explain all the missing parts. dick grayson as nightwing made my little day, and it would be kinda cool to have the real roy harper as arsenal and the clone as red arrow.

#4 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@KnightRise said:

ok it was definitely not a smooth transition, but im sure the show will bridge the gap and explain all the missing parts. dick grayson as nightwing made my little day, and it would be kinda cool to have the real roy harper as arsenal and the clone as red arrow.

Yeah, I'd definitely agree.

#5 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Completely agreed on the points of the missing members. Aqualad was my favourite character of season 1. Personally I DESPISE Cassie, so if this just turns out to be a Kon-El/Cassie relationship thing, I'll be pissed.

Good post though Vampy.

Moderator
#6 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed with almost everything, well said

#7 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Completely agreed on the points of the missing members. Aqualad was my favourite character of season 1. Personally I DESPISE Cassie, so if this just turns out to be a Kon-El/Cassie relationship thing, I'll be pissed.

Good post though Vampy.

Yeah, I'd definitely be pissed too. I'd love to see them make it work between her and Tim.

#8 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

Agreed with almost everything, well said

Anything in particular?

#9 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

Agreed with almost everything, well said

Anything in particular?

Not really anything in particular really just a character preference differences here or there, I don't like Artemis for example so just little stuff like that. I agree with the overall sentiment and most points you made as well

#10 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

Agreed with almost everything, well said

Anything in particular?

Not really anything in particular really just a character preference differences here or there, I don't like Artemis for example so just little stuff like that. I agree with the overall sentiment and most points you made as well

Hmm. I see. To be honest though, I don't really care much for Artemis as a character, I just really like Wally/Artemis pair.

#11 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Completely agreed on the points of the missing members. Aqualad was my favourite character of season 1. Personally I DESPISE Cassie, so if this just turns out to be a Kon-El/Cassie relationship thing, I'll be pissed.

Good post though Vampy.

Yeah, I'd definitely be pissed too. I'd love to see them make it work between her and Tim.

I personally would've rather seen Donna on the team if anything. As for the stupidly unexplained 5 year gap, I would've preferred to see the original team "grown up" then a bunch of new members.

Moderator
#12 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

@ReVamp said:

@BlackArmor said:

Agreed with almost everything, well said

Anything in particular?

Not really anything in particular really just a character preference differences here or there, I don't like Artemis for example so just little stuff like that. I agree with the overall sentiment and most points you made as well

Hmm. I see. To be honest though, I don't really care much for Artemis as a character, I just really like Wally/Artemis pair.

Yeah, they set it up well especially towards the end

#13 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

I personally would've rather seen Donna on the team if anything. As for the stupidly unexplained 5 year gap, I would've preferred to see the original team "grown up" then a bunch of new members.

Meh... I don't know. I'm a big Donna fan, but she's a bit too much like Diana and her origin always was confusing, so while I agree, I can understand where they came from.

As for the "grown up" team, I don't necessarily agree. I like that the other most probably have moved on to something and that there's a lot of backstory to deal with. They're badasses now, that's kind of the jist. They're no longer green, wet behind the ear kids.

#14 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Yeah, they really did. I wasn't sure whether or not they were going to ruin it towards the end, but it ended well. I hope that the Megann/Lagoon Boy thing isn't just Megan having a pity party of being ugly as fck.

#15 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: That's be pretty screwed up, but I could actually see them doing that. A popular theory is that Lagoon Boy is just happier than SB and that's why MM choose him, I hope that's right I prefer it to the ugly reason

#16 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@ReVamp: That's be pretty screwed up, but I could actually see them doing that. A popular theory is that Lagoon Boy is just happier than SB and that's why MM choose him, I hope that's right I prefer it to the ugly reason

I doubt that's the true reason if Superboy ends up with Miss Martian. If he doesn't and ends up with Wonder Girl, then its possible that that's the theory. Quite honestly, I think that the "Lagoon Boy is happy" is far more screwed up than the other theory for a kids show.

#17 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Good point about the happy thing, that may be a little much to explore on Cartoon Network. Like you said in the OP if they feel the need to pair up everyone I really hope they stay away from Wonder Girl and Super Boy pairing. But given their comic history and the fact that Miss Martian was just kind of holding Wonder Girl's place since they didn't have he rights them not doing the pairing seems unlikely

#18 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Fair enough, they could've at least gave Kon a new costume or make him look older.

Moderator
#19 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@ReVamp: Good point about the happy thing, that may be a little much to explore on Cartoon Network. Like you said in the OP if they feel the need to pair up everyone I really hope they stay away from Wonder Girl and Super Boy pairing. But given their comic history and the fact that Miss Martian was just kind of holding Wonder Girl's place since they didn't have he rights them not doing the pairing seems unlikely

Yeah. If just fcking sucks.

#20 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor said:

Agreed with almost everything, well said

#21 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne: GET OUT!

#22 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@ReVamp: Fair enough, they could've at least gave Kon a new costume or make him look older.

Don't you dare go all Primm on me.LOL.

Meh, they didn't do that to many people. Only Nightwing looks older. And Kon's costume was changed slightly.

#23 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: lol What? :P
#24 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: I WENT THERE!

Megan got a haircut, Zatanna grew boobs and all Kon got was gloves...

Moderator
#25 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

I am worried about character development. Last season it was clear some got the short stick. We had 26 episodes and 6-8 team members. This season we have 11 on the Team plus they have to fill in relevant info of back history for 5 years with only 20 episodes while dealing with an Invasion. That is going to be difficult.

#26 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Zatanna grew boobs

I know you love Nightwing Revamp but this twas the greatest age shift of all

#27 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGoldenOne said:

@ReVamp: lol What? :P

Nothing. GET OUT. I don't talk to Octopuses.

@Deranged Midget said:

@ReVamp: I WENT THERE!

Megan got a haircut, Zatanna grew boobs and all Kon got was gloves...

Meh.

@Skaddix said:

I am worried about character development. Last season it was clear some got the short stick. We had 26 episodes and 6-8 team members. This season we have 11 on the Team plus they have to fill in relevant info of back history for 5 years with only 20 episodes while dealing with an Invasion. That is going to be difficult.

Yeah... I see that too. I think some will be background characters.

#28 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp*grabs a chair and takes a seat* Make me :P
#29 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: @TheGoldenOne:

Moderator
#30 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget: lol.
#31 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked most of what you did actually...
 

  • Dick as Nightwing over Robin is something I like, and I like that he turned down membership for the JL in favor of running YJ still which to me goes to show how much he's truly grown as at the beginning of the show, the team's dream was to be in the Justice League, but now they've found their own place where they feel they can do more good. Hopefully well see more of him in action in the future.
  • I agree about the Superboy/Miss Martian relationship, the fact that this is in a alternate universe makes it where they can do things differently from the comics and give us something new that we don't normally see. Plus I loved their relationship. I hope they eventually get back together.
  • I think we're going to see the real Roy become Arsenal but will be under the control of the Light which will most likely lead to a show down between the clone Roy and the real Roy, with the clone trying to save the real Roy.
  • I doubt Zatanna and Batman will get together mainly because there's a huge age gap between them. And while I think Zatanna fits with being on the JL, I did like the fact she was on YJ as again it was something new.
  • I would like to also mention that I believe Flash was shown at the end of the episode with the rest of the League (may have to double check me on that though...) and it looked like it was still Barry, so I don't think Wally's Flash and while something cool to see, I doubt we'll see him become Flash. (Could be wrong though. :P)
#32 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer:

  1. Absolutely. Couldn't put it better myself. I like how his Dream isn't so "superficial" in a sense and he's found a place where he can truly do good.
  2. Yeah, their relationship was amazing.
  3. I'm not sure whether it will be real vs "fake" but I think that's definitely a possibility.
  4. Yes, I know. I mostly just calling this out now, because of what was BrucexBarbara in Batman: TAS.
  5. I disagree. I think we'll see it happen in the first wave of whatever the enemy is going to end up being.
#33 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer: I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

Moderator
#34 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

What hint? There was a hint? o.o

#35 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:

@War Killer: I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

I think the real Roy is going to become a villain while clone Roy tries to save him as he probably sees it as his duty. I get the feeling that the real Roy will end up dying and show his clone that he may have been a clone and the mole but deep down he was still Roy inside and out, or something like that. 

@ReVamp said:

@War Killer:

  1. Absolutely. Couldn't put it better myself. I like how his Dream isn't so "superficial" in a sense and he's found a place where he can truly do good.
  2. I disagree. I think we'll see it happen in the first wave of whatever the enemy is going to end up being.
  1. That was one of my favorite scenes in the show when Dick was talking to Black Canary and finally revealed that he didn't want to be Batman one day, it was his first step I believe in his journey to becoming his own man, which is apparently exactly what he's done.
  2. Either I way I don't mind, I personally liked Wally as Flash in the last JL cartoon so I'd be happy to see him return to that role again.
#36 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Deranged Midget said:

I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

What hint? There was a hint? o.o

Well you know... They made out and stuff :P

Moderator
#37 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer: OR MAYBE the "real" Roy is actually the clone and Vandal Savage has been messing with "clone" Roy's mind the entire time and he's actually the real one who's been set way off course. Probably not true due to his supposed "programming" but it also could've just been the mind-control stuff.

Moderator
#38 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio
@Deranged Midget said:

@War Killer: OR MAYBE the "real" Roy is actually the clone and Vandal Savage has been messing with "clone" Roy's mind the entire time and he's actually the real one who's been set way off course. Probably not true due to his supposed "programming" but it also could've just been the mind-control stuff.

Well seeing as we saw a younger Roy in that tube, I really think the clone Roy is the clone. But I have no doubt they've probably been telling the real Roy all kinds of crap to turn him to their side. Hence why the clone Roy will see it as his duty to rescue the real Roy.
#39 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@Deranged Midget said:

I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

What hint? There was a hint? o.o

He's talking about where Robin/Dick and Zatanna kissed at the end of season one, not the whole thing with her and Batman. :P
#40 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer said:

@ReVamp said:

@Deranged Midget said:

I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

What hint? There was a hint? o.o

He's talking about where Robin/Dick and Zatanna kissed at the end of season one, not the whole thing with her and Batman. :P

Oops, I should've re-worded that better :P

Moderator
#41 Posted by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey I saw Aqualad! No joke. Wasn't he the black guy kinda looked like him talking to team? If not then who was that?

#42 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer said:

@ReVamp said:

@Deranged Midget said:

I hope they don't kill off clone Roy, I actually liked him. As for Zatanna, I didn't mind the little hint at a fling they had going in the season finale. Would definitely like to see that one explore into more detail.

What hint? There was a hint? o.o

He's talking about where Robin/Dick and Zatanna kissed at the end of season one, not the whole thing with her and Batman. :P

Yeah, I for some reason interpreted it as "the little hint in Season 2".

#43 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995 said:

Hey I saw Aqualad! No joke. Wasn't he the black guy kinda looked like him talking to team? If not then who was that?

No, he didn't appear there brah. Must've been someone else.

#44 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Good thoughts all around @ReVamp:. Personally I don't mind the time-jump and I agree with you on each of your points. Too many new characters meant Wonder Girl and Batgirl especially felt meh. I liked Lobo though, which is odd for me.

#45 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: I think what made Lobo a particularly good addition is the fact that he was pretty low-key. They didn't try to force him as a villain and just let him have that small appearance in the beginning.

#46 Posted by JohnnyGat (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember seeing in a YJ:Invasion toy box Aqualad was wearing Black Manta-ish armor and an interview stating that BM knew Kal was his son but Kal didn't know BM was his father. Maybe that plays in on whatever Aqualads role will be in his disappearnace from the team. I wouldn't mind him turning heel though, that voice plus on a villain is just sick.

#47 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyGat said:

I remember seeing in a YJ:Invasion toy box Aqualad was wearing Black Manta-ish armor and an interview stating that BM knew Kal was his son but Kal didn't know BM was his father. Maybe that plays in on whatever Aqualads role will be in his disappearnace from the team. I wouldn't mind him turning heel though, that voice plus on a villain is just sick.

Yeah, I saw that too with the armor. I don't think I mentioned it because of the possible spoilers, but I don't think that means he's turned into a villain. I wouldn't like him to be an outright villain, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind seeing him vs the team. That would be plenty cool imo.

#48 Posted by Delphic (1468 posts) - - Show Bio

If they do go with a Kon/Cassie pairing then they need to develop her character a little more and give us a reason for how the relationship might work. To be honest though, I'm more interested in why Kon and Megaan split. I also am sort of wondering what she sees in Lagoon boy. I'm also just as curious was to what has happened to Artemis and Wally. To be honest, I didn't see that one lasting.

The thing that excited me the most was seeing Dick take on the Nightwing role. We saw him start to develop out of the Robin role when he confessed about not wanting to be Batman, and my personal favorite in the season one finale when Dick breaks out the Ecrima sticks while still Robin.

I agree 100% with Babs sort of just being there. She doesn't really fit in my opinion

#49 Posted by JohnnyGat (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@JohnnyGat said:

I remember seeing in a YJ:Invasion toy box Aqualad was wearing Black Manta-ish armor and an interview stating that BM knew Kal was his son but Kal didn't know BM was his father. Maybe that plays in on whatever Aqualads role will be in his disappearnace from the team. I wouldn't mind him turning heel though, that voice plus on a villain is just sick.

Yeah, I saw that too with the armor. I don't think I mentioned it because of the possible spoilers, but I don't think that means he's turned into a villain. I wouldn't like him to be an outright villain, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind seeing him vs the team. That would be plenty cool imo.

Consider me blinded by my wished episode featuring the character, but I just want Kal to have joined BM under the fact that Aquaman and his "stepdad" Cal Durham (In the YJ comics based on the show he exists) were truly responsible for his Biological mothers death causing him to join Black Manta but through all the years of him being a hero he in the end chooses to follow the values that he learned in life but at the same time loses his trust in his father and his king causing him to be more of a solo guy that wedges his way back into the main cast much like Red Arrow in the first season towards the end.

#50 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delphic said:

If they do go with a Kon/Cassie pairing then they need to develop her character a little more and give us a reason for how the relationship might work. To be honest though, I'm more interested in why Kon and Megaan split. I also am sort of wondering what she sees in Lagoon boy. I'm also just as curious was to what has happened to Artemis and Wally. To be honest, I didn't see that one lasting.

The thing that excited me the most was seeing Dick take on the Nightwing role. We saw him start to develop out of the Robin role when he confessed about not wanting to be Batman, and my personal favorite in the season one finale when Dick breaks out the Ecrima sticks while still Robin.

I agree 100% with Babs sort of just being there. She doesn't really fit in my opinion

Yeah I definitely liked the fact that Dick has the escrima sticks in the season finale, it was a nice touch. And I definitely see Artemis and Wally lasting, I saw it from the beginning.

@JohnnyGat said:

Consider me blinded by my wished episode featuring the character, but I just want Kal to have joined BM under the fact that Aquaman and his "stepdad" Cal Durham (In the YJ comics based on the show he exists) were truly responsible for his Biological mothers death causing him to join Black Manta but through all the years of him being a hero he in the end chooses to follow the values that he learned in life but at the same time loses his trust in his father and his king causing him to be more of a solo guy that wedges his way back into the main cast much like Red Arrow in the first season towards the end.

Its definitely a cool idea, I wouldn't mind that at all.

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