OMG.. EVERYONE dies?!

I love cartoons that do that! Nothing goes right everyone is dead.. bad news.. plays with your hear strings.

Best transformers was the rust virus ,

Best GI Joes what the train explosion, different time line where COBRA won.. everyone is dead.

I watched bothe of those around 8--9 , blew my mind!

But that that YJ was crazy awesome, Robin stepping up was awesome. Best EP yet, and they have been really good.

You mean the "Failsafe" episode today?

It was alright, not good, not bad.

coming behind the last few episodes i did not think it was that good.

Certainly not the best episode, but I still enjoyed it like I enjoy the rest of Young Justice.

I always love that kinda ep. I liked it.

My favorite part was the various cameos...this show does an awesome job of cameos... it's about time we saw Wonder Woman doing something.

So, John can't read Megan's mind? That's not going to backfire or anything....

It started off to shocking it didn't earn the OMG of we just killed the entire Justice League in 3 minutes and the entire team by the end of it. No TV show would do that without some sort of build up. The reveal at the end though was nice and I guess sets up some stuff. My biggest complaint with Young Justice is it doesn't have many of those character moments it dose big event stuff good but the team is lacking n character its there but I want more.

Still solid episode and anything that dose a kobayashi maru is fine in my book.

I like the part 
 

i slept through most of it..........i HATE when i do that

A character is supposed to die at some point. I wonder if it will be Miss Martian Jean Grey style.

I thought this was an end to the first season and a prelude to the second season, Young Justice Invasion... Then I was thinking there were still like 10 episodes till season one is done so this had to be a vision or something similar!!! But defiantly some foreshadowing for events to come!! Solid episode... it had me gasp in awe!!

that episode was amazing i never expected the ending it was very emotional what a ride

@YoggSaron: I kinda got that feeling too! and I hope so...if they really plan on bringing Wonder Girl in, I hope it makes way for her and Conner (if it's Cassie that is, although I do prefer Donna) Although I think it's ultimately Artemis that's gonna choke first because of the obscurity of the character and she clearly wasn't in the Invasion promo picture.

I liked it. I wonder if the creators will still kill one of them off like they said they would. I would enjoy having Zatana back in the fray and more episodes that build on character.

@VanTesla: if theu kill one of them for real im done with the show

Missed the first 5 minutes but what Manhunter did to his neice to wake her up made this one of the best episodes

@VanTesla: if theu kill one of them for real im done with the show

@Kairan1979: how would this give it depth

Man, I got the scare of my entire life I never have been so scared, well not exactly scared but was too much adrenaline my heart was beating very very very strong and fast and what I have learned?...

I hate alien invasions

It was obviously a "Omg i can't believe i dreamed all that " episode I was sad when Miss Martian was stabed through the chest Because I knew it wasn't real. One moment i was like "yessssss" then i was like "wait a minute awwww"

I don't want to see any one die..I really am very happy with series so far though, might be my 2nd fav comic cartoon after BatmanTAS.

I want Shazam to join the team though.

Side not: Anyone else not really like Brave and the Bold lately.. it jumped the shark from fun cartoon for kids that would sneak in some fan boy stuff, now it's ALL fan boy stuff.. I get that, I started my Batman & Superman w/ Golden/silver age nonsense.

@Kairan1979: how would this give it depth

@YoggSaron: I kinda got that feeling too! and I hope so...if they really plan on bringing Wonder Girl in, I hope it makes way for her and Conner (if it's Cassie that is, although I do prefer Donna) Although I think it's ultimately Artemis that's gonna choke first because of the obscurity of the character and she clearly wasn't in the Invasion promo picture.

@xhavoc86: I don't know how much we can actually go by the poster. The only one I recognize is Robin. :P

@YoggSaron said:

@xhavoc86: I don't know how much we can actually go by the poster. The only one I recognize is Robin. :P

And Aqualad! I think he's the most obvious one, I don't know about Robin, which one do you think is him?

@xhavoc86: The guy in the middle. He has a cape and what appear to be gauntlets that resemble Robin's.

Oh, and I can see Aqualad now.

@YoggSaron said:

@xhavoc86: The guy in the middle. He has a cape and what appear to be gauntlets that resemble Robin's.

Oh, and I can see Aqualad now.

oh duh lol

Lame episode is lame. "It was all a dream" = cheap.

Lame episode is lame. "It was all a dream" = cheap.

The ending was very anticlimactic.

@cattlebattle said:

@fodigg said:

Lame episode is lame. "It was all a dream" = cheap.

It wasn't a dream...it was a training sequence that went horribly out of control, It wasn't like the episode from Batman "over the edge" where none of it was lasting when it was over...the development the characters went through was real and will presumably be remembered as it was a traumatic experience

If the viewer is led to believe that "sh*t just got real," but in the end, nothing that happened actually happened, it was "all just a dream." As @jrock85: said, it is very anti-climactic.

If they wanted to avoid this cliche, they should have informed the audience up-front that it was a training sequence, then raised the stakes by showing Artemis and the "dead" members on death's door after the mishap, with the panic of the JL members setting the tone. Instead, we were given a bait-and-switch, especially as there was a perfectly reasonable explanation without "all just a dream"--zeta-beam transport.

Really, nothing has changed coming out of the episode. Megan is a powerful telepath--more powerful even than Manhunter. That could've been handled in a throwaway line with an entirely different episode.

@cattlebattle said:

@fodigg said:

Lame episode is lame. "It was all a dream" = cheap.

It wasn't a dream...it was a training sequence that went horribly out of control, It wasn't like the episode from Batman "over the edge" where none of it was lasting when it was over...the development the characters went through was real and will presumably be remembered as it was a traumatic experience

If the viewer is led to believe that "sh*t just got real," but in the end, nothing that happened actually happened, it was "all just a dream." As @jrock85: said, it is very anti-climactic.

If they wanted to avoid this cliche, they should have informed the audience up-front that it was a training sequence, then raised the stakes by showing Artemis and the "dead" members on death's door after the mishap, with the panic of the JL members setting the tone. Instead, we were given a bait-and-switch, especially as there was a perfectly reasonable explanation without "all just a dream"--zeta-beam transport.

Really, nothing has changed coming out of the episode. Megan is a powerful telepath--more powerful even than Manhunter. That could've been handled in a throwaway line with an entirely different episode.

@cattlebattle said:

If they would have revealed it was a training sequence from the beginning the episode would have lost all the momentum IMO, The reason the episode was good is because it kept you guessing on how the whole thing is going to turn out...."who the heck are these aliens" and whatnot....I don't know, your opinion seems to be the general consensus on this episode...which is disappointment, I for one enjoyed it, and the ending was ominous and creepy

Well, it's so unlikely that they'd kill off the entire justice league that there's no real tension for the viewer to begin with. Compare that to my proposal: the false-drama of the death of the justice league is traded for real drama of coma-death for the members of the training simulation.

@cattlebattle said:

If they would have revealed it was a training sequence from the beginning the episode would have lost all the momentum IMO, The reason the episode was good is because it kept you guessing on how the whole thing is going to turn out...."who the heck are these aliens" and whatnot....I don't know, your opinion seems to be the general consensus on this episode...which is disappointment, I for one enjoyed it, and the ending was ominous and creepy

Well, it's so unlikely that they'd kill off the entire justice league that there's no real tension for the viewer to begin with. Compare that to my proposal: the false-drama of the death of the justice league is traded for real drama of coma-death for the members of the training simulation.

@cattlebattle said:

We had no idea what was going on though,

That was the problem. We had no idea what the real tension of the episode was until the last minute. We found out about the danger literally after it had been averted.

when the League was getting zapped we figured they were getting teleported, which was explored as what really happened later in the episode which then revealed wasn't the case. After things started building to a head...and the Team was addressing the world about having hope, you started figuring that it wasn't real as the world was apparently too far destroyed....it was only left to what was really going on...which wasn't a dream.

Again, that was weak tension because we know they wouldn't kill off the league. So we spend the majority of the episode assuming it's zeta-beams, then in rapid succession we're told: no they're dead, wait it's a dream, wait it was a DANGEROUS dream but now it's okay, okay see you next week.

I feel like when people are comparing to a dream episode that (as I stated before) "over the edge" comes to mind, where it was such an "end all" dramatic episode..only to be revealed as none of it being real...everything is OK.
The events they witnessed were very character driven and there was a lot to take out of it...Kid Flashs concern with Artemis, Robin acting more like Batman than he previously has, Aqualads leadership folly in the face of desperation, Superboys mentality of how he feels about Superman, and though feels he resents him, still strives to be like him, and of course Megans power and how the League seemed frightened by it...there was a ton to take out of the episode

None of which the above required the "it was just a dream" cliche to deliver.

@cattlebattle said:

We had no idea what was going on though,

That was the problem. We had no idea what the real tension of the episode was until the last minute. We found out about the danger literally after it had been averted.

when the League was getting zapped we figured they were getting teleported, which was explored as what really happened later in the episode which then revealed wasn't the case. After things started building to a head...and the Team was addressing the world about having hope, you started figuring that it wasn't real as the world was apparently too far destroyed....it was only left to what was really going on...which wasn't a dream.

Again, that was weak tension because we know they wouldn't kill off the league. So we spend the majority of the episode assuming it's zeta-beams, then in rapid succession we're told: no they're dead, wait it's a dream, wait it was a DANGEROUS dream but now it's okay, okay see you next week.

I feel like when people are comparing to a dream episode that (as I stated before) "over the edge" comes to mind, where it was such an "end all" dramatic episode..only to be revealed as none of it being real...everything is OK.
The events they witnessed were very character driven and there was a lot to take out of it...Kid Flashs concern with Artemis, Robin acting more like Batman than he previously has, Aqualads leadership folly in the face of desperation, Superboys mentality of how he feels about Superman, and though feels he resents him, still strives to be like him, and of course Megans power and how the League seemed frightened by it...there was a ton to take out of the episode

None of which the above required the "it was just a dream" cliche to deliver.

@cattlebattle said:

Well, unless they were going to have an apocalyptic event with characters dying...they did need the simulation format

Yeah, but the simulation format doesn't necessarily require the cliche of "it was just a dream," as I describe above.

I don' know, I for one enjoyed the episode, I thought all the points I made about each characters development was good...and I'll tell you right now, even after I did figure out it wasn't real (the point where Superboy and M'gann are addressing their classmates in costume at Happy Harbor High..I figured it was too soon for a reveal like that) I was still at the edge of my seat to see what happened, then found the ending great as we're left with Miss Martian balling in Captain Marvels arms with a great look of concern on everyones' face as Megans powers have been revealed to be more than originally expected....Plenty of shows use common science fiction tropes such as the "dream" episode, its just how well its written and the lasting effects is what it comes down to.

It's not that I disagree with you that there was character development, I just feel like you're saying the episode as a whole was good because, other than the really bad parts, it had some good parts. As I'm more critiquing it's bad parts than the episode as a whole—especially since those bad parts are easily avoided—I don't think your points about character reveals necessarily conflict with my perspective. Remember, my original critique was "it was just a dream = lame." It was not "there was nothing good at all in this episode."

I still believe, however, that everything that was of worth in this episode (the megan reveal, the character development, the JLA cameos, the fight sequences) could have been handled in a number of other scenarios or even with the exact same setup but with an up-front reveal. They weren't significant enough to warrant the cliche. Also, this episode didn't affect the status quo of the show at all—which is the primary problem with "just a dream"—even if it offered a few small new perspectives to the viewer on the characters.

I mean a well excepted "dream" episode in cartoon history is "Perchance to Dream" a Batman episode, everyone loves that episode due to its a look at Bruce Waynes life if he never became Batman.......basically an alternate, what if tale. Same premise for this episode, If The League falls in combat would the Team be able to step up...even in the face of everything getting worse

Again, the concern is not generally with the concept of "dream-space" sequences, but with the specific cliche of "it was just a dream," which is a unique play on viewer expectations. If you want examples of dream-scape tales being told well and avoiding this trope, look at the works of Neil Gaimen: Mirror Mask, Sandman, and Coraline to name a few. The difference is that the viewer, and often the characters, are aware what's going on so the author isn't laying on false tension for a "gotcha" twist at the end. The author is instead allowing a little dramatic irony to inform the situation so that the audience always knows the true stakes of any given situation. For a story that full-on does the "it was just a dream" twist and yet manages to succeed despite this, check out Pan's Labyrinth.

My wife and I watched this together and were both trying to figure out what the hell was going on. Obviously killing off most of the Justice League before the opening credits tells you that something crazy is happening and there's no way this is going to stick. The way YJ handeled everythign was great. I know that if I just saw something vaporise Captain Marvel, Superman, and Martian Manhunter I would just crap my pants, hide under my bed, and hope I die quickly lol. This show is just great btw. I look forward to it every week. This and Thundercats are the best cartoons going right now.

@cattlebattle said:

Yeah, but the simulation format doesn't necessarily require the cliche of "it was just a dream," as I describe above.

It's not that I disagree with you that there was character development, I just feel like you're saying the episode as a whole was good because, other than the really bad parts, it had some good parts. As I'm more critiquing it's bad parts than the episode as a whole—especially since those bad parts are easily avoided—I don't think your points about character reveals necessarily conflict with my perspective. Remember, my original critique was "it was just a dream = lame." It was not "there was nothing good at all in this episode."

\

Again, the concern is not generally with the concept of "dream-space" sequences, but with the specific cliche of "it was just a dream," which is a unique play on viewer expectations. If you want examples of dream-scape tales being told well and avoiding this trope, look at the works of Neil Gaimen: Mirror Mask, Sandman, and Coraline to name a few. The difference is that the viewer, and often the characters, are aware what's going on so the author isn't laying on false tension for a "gotcha" twist at the end. The author is instead allowing a little dramatic irony to inform the situation so that the audience always knows the true stakes of any given situation. For a story that full-on does the "it was just a dream" twist and yet manages to succeed despite this, check out Pan's Labyrinth.

@cattlebattle said:

I have been trying to drive at, It was more like a what if...worse case scenario story than an actual "dream". There has been episodes of tons of shows and cartoons where the protagonists travel to a dystopian future...this wasn't too dissimilar from those. A dream episode would more imply that everything is OK after the episode is over...and everyone is back to normal....Everything is obviously not OK now that they have found Miss Ms power flux, and everyone is not back to normal as they have all been through a horrible traumatizing ordeal.

It was a literal dream. And honestly, your defense of it is that it's commonplace? That's kind of the problem. It's overdone.

Your original comment was about it being a dream...however, later you stated that the characters could have been developed in the same way without the scenario they were facing. Which I believe is false, Superboy didn't start realizing his need to be like Superman until he was gone and the soldiers were mistaking him for the genuine article...two situations that would have never happened if they were not in this simulation (as Superman would have been alive and the Team generally goes on covert missions...not running into the military), the same could be argued for Kid Flash's emotion for Artemis as she would not have been killed off in an episode, as well as Robin stepping up...all these developments really could not have been explored if the situation wasn't so dire. Your arguing there wasn't a necessity for the episode being a training simulation, I think it was the whole basis for what made the episode exciting and good.

I've already given an example of a simple, tiny tweak that would eliminate "it was all just a dream" and still have the exact same plot points. What you're talking about, the "dire" state of things, is whiplashed back when we find out it's just a dream. It's revealed as false drama and it cheapens everything. Also, had they gone forward with the zeta-beam thing, it would've been the same without everything being a dream. In no way was this cliche necessary.

Well, thats the point. The fact that your not aware of whats going on until mid-way or near the end was what made the episode good, your not just sitting there saying "Its all fake, so it doesn't matter" I really wouldn't call it a "gotcha" ending either as the audience could have pretty much figured out they wouldn't have killed the League and the rest of the team off . Your honestly kept in suspense and questioning "WTF is going on here....this isn't right"......I'm sure there has been better written stories using this writing format...This show had twenty minutes to tell a solid story.Which brings me to saying there is no point in relating the show to books, This show is serialized, and the ramifications of what they have gone through will be addressed in future episodes, so I fail to see the correlation as a novel would be a stand alone story. The quality of how the story is handled is also unfair as a novel or movie is able to go into greater detail.
Thats basically the point I'm reiterating here. I don't just think certain parts of the episode were handled well, I thought the whole thing, from the action, the character development and the ending, all of which would not have been possible without the what if storyline it had.

I disagree strongly. It was false drama with a cheap ending all based on a tired fakeout. And the consolation prize was "oh, but you DID almost die...because of a scary coma! ignore the fact that we're springing that on you at the last second!" It is cheap writing and it weakened the episode a great deal.

@cattlebattle said:

I disagree strongly. It was false drama with a cheap ending all based on a tired fakeout. And the consolation prize was "oh, but you DID almost die...because of a scary coma! ignore the fact that we're springing that on you at the last second!" It is cheap writing and it weakened the episode a great deal.

@cattlebattle:

Yes!! my defense is it has been done before...multiple times...and is usually some of the best episodes of the shows series, everyones argument for this episode is "its been done before"...or "its a cop out" , There has been many episodes of this show with tropes that are commonly used in science fiction, it just seemed like this bothered everybody because it was more blatant than others.....lame reasoning in my opinion, It wasn't a cop out since the episode was never intended to be real in the first place, and only entertained the idea of being real for a while.

So...there are no such thing as cliches? And it's not just that it's been done before that makes it poor implementation. It's a letdown. The audience is pumped up with false hype and then it was all for naught. And most importantly, it is not necessary to deliver the "good bits" of this episode. It's lazy and yields a subpar final product.

Well, your dislike of the quality of the writing is your preference. I suppose you could do better,

Ah, the classic final bastions of defense: "quality is just an opinion" and "I don't see you doing better." I think I've officially made my case. Quality is not totally relative and criticism can be legitimate from "mere" members of the audience. In fact, one might argue the audience is the most important pool of critics.

I found the episode very exciting and and the character development very needed, the great thing about episodes like this is that they can throw anything at you...without any lasting effects, but they actually found a loop hole around that

I'm not saying you shouldn't like the episode. That's fine. But even if you do, you should be able to admit that it would've been a better, stronger episode without the silly cliche.

I thought this episode was fantastic and the ending was appropriately unsettling. Love that the main premise of the very next episode is dealing with the fall out of what happened in the simulation. Does Black Canary have a psychology degree? Just wondering, I thought she was more of a H2H teacher than a guidance counselor. Anyways I knew it couldn't be real but it was still fun to watch what happened and I can't wait to see where its going.