Black Beetle massively overpowered?

#1 Posted by lightsout (1833 posts) - - Show Bio

I've bitched about this in a few other topics, but I was very let down that he was simply a reach-guy under the suit. That implies the suit alone was SO strong he could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Mongul, Superboy, Miss Martian, Green Beetle (etc). I don't care how much more experience he has with the suit than Jaimie or if it's a "better model" - he shouldn't be on that level. Yea they needed a villain, but they could have easily said he was some species of alien who's naturally super-powered and it could have made things make much more sense. I really liked YJ, but this was one of the biggest offenses IMO in terms of misrepresentation of power (on top of things like how slow the flashes were or how often Superboy & Miss Martian got jobbed. Or the logic that none of the power-houses not off with the JL (shown in the crowd before they dispersed to shut down the MFDs)..but I digress).

#2 Posted by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

And Wondergirl. Do not forget Wondergirl she literally became the new punching bag within a few episodes.

#3 Posted by lightsout (1833 posts) - - Show Bio

How could I forget her? Really, there were so many "powerhouses" among the kids and the JL members who weren't on trial, the only problem the reach & light should have posed was in terms of plans/subversion/etc. Any fights should have easily been in the good guys' favor.

#4 Posted by cattlebattle (13194 posts) - - Show Bio
@lightsout said:

I've bitched about this in a few other topics, but I was very let down that he was simply a reach-guy under the suit. That implies the suit alone was SO strong he could go toe-to-toe with the likes of Mongul, Superboy, Miss Martian, Green Beetle (etc). I don't care how much more experience he has with the suit than Jaimie or if it's a "better model" - he shouldn't be on that level. Yea they needed a villain, but they could have easily said he was some species of alien who's naturally super-powered and it could have made things make much more sense. I really liked YJ, but this was one of the biggest offenses IMO in terms of misrepresentation of power (on top of things like how slow the flashes were or how often Superboy & Miss Martian got jobbed. Or the logic that none of the power-houses not off with the JL (shown in the crowd before they dispersed to shut down the MFDs)..but I digress).

We have no idea how powerful he was without his armor, for all we know he could have been naturally super strong or genetically modified. Also, if Blue Beetle, a human teenager was strong enough with armor to fight with Superboy its completely logical that Black Beetle who is much bigger could take on Superboy.....not to mention all the weapons his armor has also gives him an advantage.
#5 Posted by IfDCRuledTheWorld (665 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe...but like you said, "They needed somebody."

#6 Posted by lightsout (1833 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: There was nothing given to suggest that. Re. BB vs Superboy: Superboy getting jobbed by writers. (We can't use bad logic in YJ at one point to justify something later).

#7 Posted by cattlebattle (13194 posts) - - Show Bio
@lightsout said:

@cattlebattle: There was nothing given to suggest that. Re. BB vs Superboy: Superboy getting jobbed by writers. (We can't use bad logic in YJ at one point to justify something later).

I don't know, seeing as he could lay out Superboy and Wonder Girl I thought it was pretty obvious that not only did his scarab grant him great strength, but he was probably strong to begin with. 
 
Superboy doesn't really job as there is pretty much no gauge ever given to his strength........this is actually a problem with any super strong characters...if someone beats them up on more than one occasion, people accuse them of being weak. When in fact, they are just as strong as the story needs them to be.
#8 Posted by mk111 (3141 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Beetle was a bit overpowered, but he is also one of my favorite Young Justice villains, so I can't complain.

#9 Posted by lightsout (1833 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: The last part first --> Well naturally it's varied story to story based on the writers, but that's taking the spirit of analyzing it. But Superboy, Wondergirl & the like have never been shown to be weaker than a scarab warrior. You're going just within the confines of YJ which I was arguing weren't logical to begin with. Sure, I would accept "you (me) shouldn't be applying the comics to this animation which is a different continuity", but I just have issues when the relative abilities of the characters are tweaked so much from the source material. To give an extreme example: if a cartoon had the Joker be able to punch Superman hard enough to make him bleed, just because it's within it's on continuity, it doesn't make it any less any less ridiculous.

#10 Posted by nmiller1939 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout said:

@cattlebattle: There was nothing given to suggest that. Re. BB vs Superboy: Superboy getting jobbed by writers. (We can't use bad logic in YJ at one point to justify something later).

Or, y'know, Blue Beetle is also more powerful than Superboy. Remember, Scarab warriors once challenged the Green Lantern Corps. It stands to reason that they are GL-level powerful, and considering that none of the characters you listed could take on a GL (probably), it stands to reason none of them could take on a Beetle. It's not like Blue Beetle was a lot less powerful than Black, just less aggressive. Only people that should have been able to take him on were the martians, and they have a pretty easily exploited weakness.

Also, when exactly did Ms. Martian "job" to anybody? Only time she lost to Black Beetle was because he density shifted the door as she was phasing through, knocking her out instantly.

Lastly, Black wasn't the unstoppable powerhouse people treat him as. In a confined area, he dominated, but when it was an open space, he did considerably less well. I was just rewatching the episode where Robin, Arsenal, Impulse and Blue fought him today...and once they made it out in the corn field, they kind of tore him apart. They blasted him hard enough to severely damage his armor, if only temporarily, and that was while Green Beetle was doing nothing, due to the flame. And Arsenal & the Runaways also did fairly well against him, when given room to work with.

#11 Posted by frozenedge (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Beetle was more than a match for powerhouses like Superboy and Wondergirl because he wasn't just a super-strengt guy, he had versatility. The way he fought also helped considering he didn't just rush in blindly and start throwing punches and kicks (Connor). Considering he was the muscle of the Reach, it would make sense that he would be able to handle most situations thrown at him. Sure he was a bit overpowered but when you have a high-tech alien suit that can create any weapon you can think of, you're gonna end up dominating majority of the people you fight especially if you're a smart fighter like Black Beetle

#12 Posted by SoA (5134 posts) - - Show Bio

i figure the scarabs to be a "modern" take on the GL rings where the suit can do so much , but it also depends on the vessel , so since jaime and "green" beetle were good guys just under scarab influence they were essentially "weaker" than black beetle who may have been a completely heartless monster before the scarab attached itself

Online
#13 Posted by cattlebattle (13194 posts) - - Show Bio
@lightsout said:

@cattlebattle: The last part first --> Well naturally it's varied story to story based on the writers, but that's taking the spirit of analyzing it. But Superboy, Wondergirl & the like have never been shown to be weaker than a scarab warrior. You're going just within the confines of YJ which I was arguing weren't logical to begin with. Sure, I would accept "you (me) shouldn't be applying the comics to this animation which is a different continuity", but I just have issues when the relative abilities of the characters are tweaked so much from the source material. To give an extreme example: if a cartoon had the Joker be able to punch Superman hard enough to make him bleed, just because it's within it's on continuity, it doesn't make it any less any less ridiculous.

I don't think anything is tweaked that much, as I mentioned before Black Beetle is shown to have super strength in Scarab form from the beginning....as episodes go on its shown that nothing can hurt him. Characters like Superboy and Wonder Girl are shown to not even be extremely strong in the first place. I just don't see how Black Beetle being able to beat down everyone is ridiculous
#14 Posted by Mojo65 (137 posts) - - Show Bio

I have more complaints as to how Green Beetle seemed to be underpowered for what he was rather than have them for Black Beetle being overpowered, as we saw someone fighting smart could make things difficult for him, like in the fight in True Colors and his fight against Artemis and M'gann posing as Deathstroke,

#15 Posted by tjs4759 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Well considering that the Reach ambassador/ leader whatever you want to call him, chose him to be the muscle behind their invasion over all other reach candidates - I'm assuming that they had the option of selecting any reach warrior they wanted to bond with the scarab. You can safely assume that he has natural attributes that set him apart from the others. You also have to wonder that since he is reach in nature that perhaps the scarab bonded with him more intimately making him that much more powerful.

#16 Posted by jasontodd7 (109 posts) - - Show Bio

@lightsout: a beetle equals a green lantern ring, right? so how black was overpowered when he fought the team?

Yes, he was overpowered against mongul but mongul was just freed from ice and not fully recovered..plus that black had a little help from green to put him back on "ice".

#17 Posted by nmiller1939 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@jasontodd7: Even then, GLs have taken down Mongul before. Sinestro did it during Blackest Night, Hal did it a little bit before the Sinestro Corps War.

#18 Posted by Cesc114 (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand the point of this forum i mean is a great villian. Have a lot's of energy blasts and flight abilities i really think he haven't use the 100% of his suit abilities

#19 Posted by Teerack (7371 posts) - - Show Bio

He wasn't that over powered to be honest. He wasn't fighting Superman, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, or Martian Man Hunter so it's not like the people he was beating up were stronger then him.

#20 Posted by JamesKM716 (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

You know a great idea would be if he were Kryptonian underneath teh Suit

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