Wolverine & the X-men: how would you fix it?

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#1 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

I get the feeling that this book is running on fumes, like, as many have mentioned, the joke is wearing thin.

Don't get me wrong, I love that there is a core X-men book dedicated to just being fun, and there have been a few really fun issues (#17, with Doop! -I roared!), I guess I just had hoped it would get better than this by now.

Personally, I get the feeling that it's a matter of focus. Between setting the tone, not really having any main characters, being invaded by crossovers and guest stars, and just generally being maybe too wacky, the whole thing seems a bit fluffy. I don't think this is a necessity of a fun or funny book; take Claremont's Excaliber, or David's X-factor. Hell, look at the way Whedon used the students in his Astonishing run. There's lots of fun and funny X-men stories that don't make the characters out to be one dimensional cartoons.

Some have mentioned that perhaps it's that the cast is too big, and maybe it is, but I feel it's more to do with not having a core cast. I think the core teaching staff is great, classic, love that Storm and Kitty are back, etc, but it seems like they are supposed to be the supporting cast. The book seems to treat the students like the stars, but, with the exception of Quire -who, yeah, is an awesome character- has done very little in the way of giving them any depth or even good character moments.

Could a core group of student characters, a la, say, New X-men or something, bring some focus to this title?

and, if so, who would you like to see most in it?

these X-men go to school, right?

make some li'l lists, and let me know what you think!

#2 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

Fact is, the main characters of the book are a cast of teachers + a cast of students. When I first read this book (6 issues in), I already established this book is going to be fun, but little to no character development or depth. Other side of the spectrum, you've got Uncanny X-Force (that recently ended) with all the grimacing, emotional rollercoaster stuff on a small cast of characters. Personally, I don't mind the variety of WTAS, but a little spotlight here and there would be awesome.

The Doop spotlight was made my month. We need a Quentin Quire spotlight, because I see potential in that kid.

#3 Posted by time (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

Better writing, with better villians too. It's supposed to be one of Wolverine's main books and too childish.

#4 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

The only problems with it are the crossover that it has to be a part of. It's a book about teenage mutants with mutant teachers. Most people would not buy a book about this so they stick Wolverine's name on it to give it less of a chance to be cancelled. Otherwise I think the book is just fine for what it is.

#5 Edited by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know where to begin. There is just so much wrong with this book. I'm not sure if it can be saved any more. Even the focus on characters I like (Genesis, Iceman) has been over-shadowed by the other crap that fills the book.

Sadly, this title sells pretty well and fills a niche, with a tonne of characters, that no other book can really fill atm.

#6 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: yeah, see; I think it's that niche that I want to see well done. That is, the younger characters highlighted in a less serious/more fun style book. With as many X-men books as they have, and as many underused, cool characters as they have, they should be able to pull off one like this.

I kinda feel like if people stop reading it, Marvel would assume that there isn't an audience for this type of book, instead of, say, questioning how well it's being executed.. does anyone else wonder about that?

#7 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@John Valentine: yeah, see; I think it's that niche that I want to see well done. That is, the younger characters highlighted in a less serious/more fun style book. With as many X-men books as they have, and as many underused, cool characters as they have, they should be able to pull off one like this.

I kinda feel like if people stop reading it, Marvel would assume that there isn't an audience for this type of book, instead of, say, questioning how well it's being executed.. does anyone else wonder about that?

I much prefer All-New X-Men to WaTXM atm.

A book like New X-Men Vol. 2 or Generation X would be most welcome, IMO.

I'd rather a teen book with a slightly darker tone than what we have in WaTXM. I'd also rather have focus on the likes of Hellion, Mercury, Dust, Surge, Rockslide, Anole etc, than on the likes of Oya, Eye-Boy and the Hellfire Club.

#8 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

If you want to get rid of a problem, you'll need to surgically strike the source. And the source of this problem is Jason Aaron.

I'd replace him with competent writers who'd bring some long-needed direction and focus to this series -

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

Any one of these guys could replace Aaron and make this title a thousand times better than it is atm, unlocking the potential it had since inception which Aaron has of yet to do, even when he tries his hardest.

#9 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

From that list, I'd chose Brian Wood.

Chris Claremont is too dated to work on a teen mutant book, Yost is focusing on Spider-Man and Whedon's focusing on Marvel Films. Does he even write anymore?

Moreover, Wood doesn't seem too fussed about working with B/C/D list characters and he makes it work.

#10 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

From that list, I'd chose Brian Wood.

Chris Claremont is too dated to work on a teen mutant book, Yost is focusing on Spider-Man and Whedon's focusing on Marvel Films. Does he even write anymore?

Moreover, Wood doesn't seem too fussed about working with B/C/D list characters and he makes it work.

I...see.

And yes, i mentioned Wood mainly because of his work on Alpha and Omega, his portrayals of Cessily and Roxanne added to their interactions with Quire (as well as the depiction of Quire himself), were hilariously brilliant.

#11 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane:

I mentioned him mainly due to his Ultimate X-Men.

#12 Posted by Rickbarry (1853 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Well, I think his Ultimate X-men run is suffering because it refuses to take the spotlight off of Kitty. I mean it's not bad or anything, but I could care less about Mach Two or the sentinel/reservation storyline. Let's move on, Woody!

I think the problem with this book is that it relies on busy panels that just try to work in one liners. Every. single. issue. You really can't keep a book going like that and I've not read an issue since 15 as a result. It's a waste of money to hear lame jokes with absolutely zero story progression. I'd like to nominate Warren Ellis. I've always liked his work(excalibur run was awesome)...save for that Astonishing run, but even then it couldn't be as mind numbing to read as this series.

#13 Posted by McKlayn (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a book that is too everywhere, i love to mention Generation X here because anyone who read the title realizes it was a very light hearted title. They went to different dimensions fought dracula, and several other just silly and fun things. Yet at the same time they dealt with some major issues (the Death of Synch, Betrayal of Mondo, ect.) tried to relate to the current kids (real kids relating to the cast idk if I worded that right) I honestly would suggest cutting down some of the teaching staff (not really off the book just least screen time) Maybe to just Kitty or Kitty and bobby? and getting 4-6 students and focusing on them, then run from there. AND FOR GODS sake drop the Toad / Husk love story <.< it still creeps me out.

#14 Posted by Rickbarry (1853 posts) - - Show Bio

@McKlayn: I think I was the only one that actually dug the Toad/Husk romance.

#15 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

@McKlayn: I think I was the only one that actually dug the Toad/Husk romance.

Disgusting.

#16 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Its fine with me. The only way I can think of improving it is to push away the focus on the hellfire kids.

#17 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

If you want to get rid of a problem, you'll need to surgically strike the source. And the source of this problem is Jason Aaron.

I'd replace him with competent writers who'd bring some long-needed direction and focus to this series -

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

Any one of these guys could replace Aaron and make this title a thousand times better than it is atm, unlocking the potential it had since inception which Aaron has of yet to do, even when he tries his hardest.

YES

#18 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

No offense to Wolverine fans, but it starts with taking Wolvies name off the book and change the title, I'd also let someone else rune the school , who's less tasked in the MU. Wolverine should appear occasionally. They need a true leader in that book.

#19 Posted by McKlayn (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

No offense to Wolverine fans, but it starts with taking Wolvies name off the book and change the title, I'd also let someone else rune the school , who's less tasked in the MU. Wolverine should appear occasionally. They need a true leader in that book.

Ive always thought the title of all X school books should be Academy X (it was such an awesome name) but having wolverine's name in the title is just a cheap money grab, hes the most popular Xmen character after all (yes i know not everyone loves him but the regular none die hard fans he is the most commonly known name) and they want to pull in new readers, people who go and say hmmm what book do i want OH this one is about Wolverine & THE X MEN! sure ill take it! the title itself really has little to do with wolverine which is a good thing, but yes i would love to see a name change Academy X ftw!!

#20 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3628 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly: It needs to grow up and stop being so whacky. If your title always has the silly button pressed, it is only a matter of time before the shtick wears off. I also think that setting it up has damaged what made Wolverine so cool. You can't be 'edgy' and a brooding hero if you are installing flamethrowers in bathrooms (I can't get over that). Emma should take it over and revamp the concept at a new Massachussetts Academy.

#21 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Honestly: It needs to grow up and stop being so whacky. If your title always has the silly button pressed, it is only a matter of time before the shtick wears off. I also think that setting it up has damaged what made Wolverine so cool. You can't be 'edgy' and a brooding hero if you are installing flamethrowers in bathrooms (I can't get over that). Emma should take it over and revamp the concept at a new Massachussetts Academy.

Revamp Generation X? I thought Gen X was awesome, then there was the St Croix thing, and the Mondo thing, and then everyone dying... and then Husk and Jubilee having that weird Chuck Austen sexual fantasy about Skin at his freaking grave.

Now that I think about it, Husk is a seriously messed up character, she dated Angel who was like, twice her age, and now she's dating Toad, who is ughh...

If Wolvie and the X-Men was to be rebooted, I think it should be revamped as a New X-Men: Academy X / Generation X sorta book. The recent New Mutants got kinda stale after awhile, DnA worked on the Marvel Cosmic side well, why couldn't they work their magic on New Mutants...?

#22 Posted by fesak (6981 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Honestly: It needs to grow up and stop being so whacky. If your title always has the silly button pressed, it is only a matter of time before the shtick wears off. I also think that setting it up has damaged what made Wolverine so cool. You can't be 'edgy' and a brooding hero if you are installing flamethrowers in bathrooms (I can't get over that). Emma should take it over and revamp the concept at a new Massachussetts Academy.

Revamp Generation X? I thought Gen X was awesome, then there was the St Croix thing, and the Mondo thing, and then everyone dying... and then Husk and Jubilee having that weird Chuck Austen sexual fantasy about Skin at his freaking grave.

Now that I think about it, Husk is a seriously messed up character, she dated Angel who was like, twice her age, and now she's dating Toad, who is ughh...

If Wolvie and the X-Men was to be rebooted, I think it should be revamped as a New X-Men: Academy X / Generation X sorta book. The recent New Mutants got kinda stale after awhile, DnA worked on the Marvel Cosmic side well, why couldn't they work their magic on New Mutants...?

Would buy/10

Moderator
#23 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: me too.

@McKlayn: agreed. and I love the idea of Kitty and Bobby as authority figures

.@evilvegeta74: I actually like Wolverine as a teacher. his character development has always been strongest in that mentor mode. I know that part of the joke with this series was that he was in charge, but that never seemed like a stretch to me; look at his track record, he started mentoring Nightcrawler as soon as they joined the team, then Kitty, Colossus, Rogue, Jubilee, Armor -to me that was always one of the coolest things about him.

#24 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: I pretty much agree with this. When I started reading this book I was crazy for it. It was Harry Potter meets X-Men. Lately, though, the art has suffered and the stories have gotten too far away from the core concept of a school. Angel going to South America shouldn't be in this book.

#25 Posted by time (5172 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Honestly: It needs to grow up and stop being so whacky. If your title always has the silly button pressed, it is only a matter of time before the shtick wears off. I also think that setting it up has damaged what made Wolverine so cool. You can't be 'edgy' and a brooding hero if you are installing flamethrowers in bathrooms (I can't get over that). Emma should take it over and revamp the concept at a new Massachussetts Academy.

That's actually a good idea, they should change the title and get rid of Wolverine. Give the title a better writer and artists like, Chris Yost/Craig Kyle with Sonia as the artist.

#26 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3628 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Honestly: It needs to grow up and stop being so whacky. If your title always has the silly button pressed, it is only a matter of time before the shtick wears off. I also think that setting it up has damaged what made Wolverine so cool. You can't be 'edgy' and a brooding hero if you are installing flamethrowers in bathrooms (I can't get over that). Emma should take it over and revamp the concept at a new Massachussetts Academy.

Revamp Generation X? I thought Gen X was awesome, then there was the St Croix thing, and the Mondo thing, and then everyone dying... and then Husk and Jubilee having that weird Chuck Austen sexual fantasy about Skin at his freaking grave.

Now that I think about it, Husk is a seriously messed up character, she dated Angel who was like, twice her age, and now she's dating Toad, who is ughh...

If Wolvie and the X-Men was to be rebooted, I think it should be revamped as a New X-Men: Academy X / Generation X sorta book. The recent New Mutants got kinda stale after awhile, DnA worked on the Marvel Cosmic side well, why couldn't they work their magic on New Mutants...?

I was a big fan of Generation X before the bloodletting and weirdness started. I like the school concept. I just think that it works better if the students, no matter how they look, actually can be perceived as young characters first and proceed from there. WatX was just adding characters because they would look quirky.

I'd rather they had the older X-Men act as teachers and mentors at the school, while the New Mutants and surviving members of Generation X become the X-Men so at least the brand could move forward.

Also, they really need better quality control at Marvel. The story lines have really become low quality and some really bad ideas are being allowed to leak into the canon. There should be someone over there still keeping track of continuity and managing the characters enough to say that a Kid Gladiator is a stupid idea.

#27 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984:

In the case of Rogue, he didn't trust her or want her on the team. He has mentored Kitty, and he and Colossus have buddied/pal'd around. As far as Night Crawler goes , Kurt has always been his own man, lived by his own convictions ,and if anything he mentored Wolverine, especially when it came to faith and God. Logan has and always admired Kurt for this, this made them best friends. I stand by what I say, Logan is not suited to be a leader, mentor yes, and his actions with the above individuals don't qualify him by any means neccessary. I didn't speak on Armor or Jubes, haven't paid much attention to those characters at all. Also you need to look at the fact Logan is a killer at heart, and you question yourself whether or not if you would want your kids around a man that has killed all of his own children. I stand by what I say.

#28 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: well, maybe it was more of a big brother thing with Nightcrawler and Colossus, since many of his lessons involved taking them to the bar first, but Kitty, Jubilee and Armor serve my point.

and I don't think of Wolverine as a "killer at heart", Sabertooth is a killer at heart. Wolverine's like a samurai, he has a code; the fact that he has and will kill is part of his story, not the totality of who he is.

You make a good point, though. I think that the other side of this, to me, is the idea that he is willing to kill to protect children, and that underlines not only his priorities, but his dedication. But, no, I can't justify killing people. I've never had anyone try to kill me or my child, so it's all sort of abstract to me.

#29 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

1 - Scrap the entire concept and creative teams, start from a clean sheet of paper because what we have now is so utterly and completely broken no amount of tinkering can make it acceptable much less exceptional. I understand there are fans of the book and I am not slamming you on your taste in comics, this is just MHO on the state of the title.

2 - Forget trying to do what has been done before (New Mutants, Gen X, Academy X, Avengers Academy, etc.) and design the book for the world of today. Taking into account the state of the Marvel U with Marvel NOW and all the recent X-events and not just ignoring the consequences that happens all too much nowadays. While all of those books were better than this one, they all were designed for a different age.

3 - Hire a creative team that will actually take the book in a serious direction. The current book is damn silly and slapstick it belongs in a What-If? or kids line of books, IMO it is insulting to even read. How can everyone be smiles and giggles after the events of recent years? This is not to say the tone needs to be doom and gloom, but it at least has to show the characters not acting like a Monty Python sketch. If Marvel could grovel enough to Brian K Vaughn and convince him to write this I would tap dance in a tutu on You Tube for your enjoyment at my expense.

4 - The staff needs to be slimmed down to a core of 4 at the most, and the characters used have to show that the X-Men take the entire "training the next generation of X-Men" thing seriously. There are a lot of names that could be thrown out based on how you decided to divide the responsibilities, but the current staff is just a complete joke. If you need to keep Wolverine in the title for sales purposes make him a combat instructor, having him as Headmaster is like having the Punisher take Hank Pym's job at Avengers Academy.

5 - The students need to be slimmed down to a core of 8 at the most, we have all seen what happens when books expand to a cast of dozens by now and its about time to learn from those mistakes. Make the core 8 the group closest to graduating to X-Man status, focusing the action on them while showing other students in smaller roles. Over time students graduate and are put on other teams and background characters take on larger roles. Rinse, dry, repeat. The New Mutants went 100+ issues before moving on and they really never graduated, the current students just get tossed on teams when its obvious none of them have been around long enough to be qualified (Armor, Pixie) its just a popularity game.

6 - The X-Mansion needs to go back underground again, the idea of a public school and having it attacked and/or blown up every 12 issues is a tiring concept and makes the writers and characters looks stupid. There are enough graves in the backyard for someone to realize the world is not ready for acceptance and maybe we should try to keep the kids alive long enough to graduate one day. You can rebuilt it or move it (Utopia) but the end result is still the same, when bad guys know where you live they will attack you there.

7 - The team needs to interact with the other teen teams (Young Avengers, Runaways, etc) on a regular basis. If Marvel decides to not bring back any kind of Avengers Academy training team you could even bring non mutant staff and students into the book. The point of the X-Men was human and mutant co-existence, what a kooky concept to actually put it into practice yourself and live and teach side by side.

8 - Allow the book to run its own course and not get hijacked by events, aka the Peter David HiJack Insurance

9 - Limit the number of new students that appear and join the school. Marvel has now twice tried to introduce droves of new characters at once and neither time did it work out for the better, three is not a charm.

10 - Comments Welcome

#30 Edited by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the book is fine.

@AgeofHurricane said:

If you want to get rid of a problem, you'll need to surgically strike the source. And the source of this problem is Jason Aaron.

I'd replace him with competent writers who'd bring some long-needed direction and focus to this series -

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

Any one of these guys could replace Aaron and make this title a thousand times better than it is atm, unlocking the potential it had since inception which Aaron has of yet to do, even when he tries his hardest.

I never thought I'd see Claremont on a list of people who could bring "direction and focus" to anything. He's always been an idea guy, someone throwing out a million ideas every issue, and needed to be reigned in a bit by basic plot fundamentals.

#31 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect: Yeah, I agree with most of this. Citing the New Mutants in your fifth point sort of contradicts your second point, but whatever.

I get the sense that you don't like the staff; any suggestions about who would serve better?

#32 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@Brazen_Intellect: Yeah, I agree with most of this. Citing the New Mutants in your fifth point sort of contradicts your second point, but whatever.

I get the sense that you don't like the staff; any suggestions about who would serve better?

1 - Just because New Mutants had a smaller set cast of students does not mean any book that takes that single aspect is a repeat. I only wanted to show that the New Mutants went 100+ issues and still were not considered ready to graduate yet the newer kids get nowhere near the time training and are tossed to the wolves

2 - I would potentially keep Beast and Shadowcat, but would replace the rest with characters such as:

Rogue

Dr. Cecilia Reyes

Danielle Moonstar

Sage

If they decided to merge and use some Avenger characters then I would use Justice

#33 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I think the book is fine.

@AgeofHurricane said:

If you want to get rid of a problem, you'll need to surgically strike the source. And the source of this problem is Jason Aaron.

I'd replace him with competent writers who'd bring some long-needed direction and focus to this series -

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

Any one of these guys could replace Aaron and make this title a thousand times better than it is atm, unlocking the potential it had since inception which Aaron has of yet to do, even when he tries his hardest.

I never thought I'd see Claremont on a list of people who could bring "direction and focus" to anything. He's always been an idea guy, someone throwing out a million ideas every issue, and needed to be reigned in a bit by basic plot fundamentals.

Giant Sized X-Men #1 (1975) followed by what went on for the following 25 years speaks contrary to that. You could probably callously say something like this during his Forever/NEx tenures and the like, but Claremont has never "always been an idea guy" as you say, and certainly not one who needed to be held on a leash by Editorial. We're talking about the man who set the X-Men in stone.

That's not to say Aaron isn't attempting to do the exact same thing, but failing.

#34 Posted by SoA (5243 posts) - - Show Bio

i like it as is, if you want a book that's dramatic or character oriented pick up something else. there 100 other wolverine and x-men titles out there go read those lol

#35 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane:

I think a lot of people are a lot more familiar with his later work and assume he is an overrated hack. Never has a comic book writer went from greatness to terrible to the level he has since his original epic run.

#36 Edited by Lokheit (489 posts) - - Show Bio

Before AvX I liked the book even though many characters didn't convince me at all (specially Idie... she and not Broo should've been shotted), Jason Aaron despite doing a great job in Wolverine solo books wasn't convincing me (specially everytime he writes something about Cyclops, I don't know why but he completly hates him) and I really missed the far more interesting cast of New X-Men vol 2. But post AvX it's going in a horrible direction.

The new characters are horrible (shark girls and many eyes kid... please bring me Hellion and Mercury and stop this madness). the kidsfire club is lasting way too long when they're kids (no matter how menacing Jason tries to write them, they're horrible as main villians) and the character development is meh.

Despite I dislike the idea, I'm enjoying ANXM more than WatXM. Please bring the cool new mutants back, a lot of them were left with their character development not finished.

#37 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect: I can understand that, and it's true.

But then i haven't read his Forever series, which the vocal fans seem to predominantly moan about when ever referring to his later work.

#38 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@Brazen_Intellect: I can understand that, and it's true.

But then i haven't read his Forever series, which the vocal fans seem to predominantly moan about when ever referring to his later work.

Don't bother or your eyes will melt, it is utterly terrible. I have no idea what happened (alien abduction, CIA mind control, etc) to him between his original run and his later work, but he is all but unreadable anymore.

#39 Posted by FrankenKong (234 posts) - - Show Bio

Two words

Wolverine And The X-Men

Kid Gladiator

#40 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@fodigg said:

I think the book is fine.

@AgeofHurricane said:

If you want to get rid of a problem, you'll need to surgically strike the source. And the source of this problem is Jason Aaron.

I'd replace him with competent writers who'd bring some long-needed direction and focus to this series -

1). Chris Claremont.

2). Chris Yost/Craig Kyle.

3). Joss Whedon.

4). Brian Wood.

Any one of these guys could replace Aaron and make this title a thousand times better than it is atm, unlocking the potential it had since inception which Aaron has of yet to do, even when he tries his hardest.

I never thought I'd see Claremont on a list of people who could bring "direction and focus" to anything. He's always been an idea guy, someone throwing out a million ideas every issue, and needed to be reigned in a bit by basic plot fundamentals.

Giant Sized X-Men #1 (1975) followed by what went on for the following 25 years speaks contrary to that. You could probably callously say something like this during his Forever/NEx tenures and the like, but Claremont has never "always been an idea guy" as you say, and certainly not one who needed to be held on a leash by Editorial. We're talking about the man who set the X-Men in stone.

That's not to say Aaron isn't attempting to do the exact same thing, but failing.

Nah, you listen to him talk about all the different stuff he was trying to work into the book and the rewrites and last minute changes. Heck, even just dropped plots. It was always his way. It's not a bad thing to be an idea guy.

#41 Posted by Freakshow3002 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

i would like to see the book have multiple x-men teams for example one team begin all staff members of the school fighting off treats and an other with all students who are begin lead by wolverine, iceman, angel, or Rachel Grey, or even gambit.

#42 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@FrankenKong said:

Two words

Wolverine And The X-Men

Kid Gladiator

two words about what this title's doing wrong? then I agree..

#43 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Brazen_Intellect said:

@dangallant984 said:

@Brazen_Intellect: Yeah, I agree with most of this. Citing the New Mutants in your fifth point sort of contradicts your second point, but whatever.

I get the sense that you don't like the staff; any suggestions about who would serve better?

1 - Just because New Mutants had a smaller set cast of students does not mean any book that takes that single aspect is a repeat. I only wanted to show that the New Mutants went 100+ issues and still were not considered ready to graduate yet the newer kids get nowhere near the time training and are tossed to the wolves

2 - I would potentially keep Beast and Shadowcat, but would replace the rest with characters such as:

Rogue

Dr. Cecilia Reyes

Danielle Moonstar

Sage

If they decided to merge and use some Avenger characters then I would use Justice

1- ..and therefore were developed into more well rounded characters; agreed.

2- nice. especially digging the Dani and (surprisingly) Marvelboy picks. very cool.

#44 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

#45 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

#46 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

I'm pretty sure that was the plan, until somewhere along the line, Rob Liefeld came and whisked Cannonball off his feet when Cable came into the picture, and then Fabian Nicieza and a bunch of other writers and something something something. Basically, Moonstar and Cannonball were being tossed between Uncanny X-Men and X-Force, never fulfilling the spot Claremont built for them.

#47 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

I'm pretty sure that was the plan, until somewhere along the line, Rob Liefeld came and whisked Cannonball off his feet when Cable came into the picture, and then Fabian Nicieza and a bunch of other writers and something something something. Basically, Moonstar and Cannonball were being tossed between Uncanny X-Men and X-Force, never fulfilling the spot Claremont built for them.

That's so sad. It's like every time there's some kind of potential for characters, that potential is just crushed when a new writer comes in and does something different for the character.

#48 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

I'm pretty sure that was the plan, until somewhere along the line, Rob Liefeld came and whisked Cannonball off his feet when Cable came into the picture, and then Fabian Nicieza and a bunch of other writers and something something something. Basically, Moonstar and Cannonball were being tossed between Uncanny X-Men and X-Force, never fulfilling the spot Claremont built for them.

That's so sad. It's like every time there's some kind of potential for characters, that potential is just crushed when a new writer comes in and does something different for the character.

Sad but true. And sometimes, they create awesome characters (Fantomex for example) with interesting back stories and powers, but arent given enough time to develop their own personality and style (Grant Morrison's New X-Men was too rushed. Frank Quitely's art is usually better).

Problem about X-Men is that there are too many awesome characters, but the X-Books like focusing on fan-favourites, such as Cyclops, Wolverine (he's everywhere, ain't he), Emma Frost, and with multiple books having the same characters, this really doesnt help push forward great characters. (Still waiting for Dust, Surge and pretty much most of the New X-Men vol 2. cast to come back)

#49 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

I'm pretty sure that was the plan, until somewhere along the line, Rob Liefeld came and whisked Cannonball off his feet when Cable came into the picture, and then Fabian Nicieza and a bunch of other writers and something something something. Basically, Moonstar and Cannonball were being tossed between Uncanny X-Men and X-Force, never fulfilling the spot Claremont built for them.

That's so sad. It's like every time there's some kind of potential for characters, that potential is just crushed when a new writer comes in and does something different for the character.

Sad but true. And sometimes, they create awesome characters (Fantomex for example) with interesting back stories and powers, but arent given enough time to develop their own personality and style (Grant Morrison's New X-Men was too rushed. Frank Quitely's art is usually better).

Problem about X-Men is that there are too many awesome characters, but the X-Books like focusing on fan-favourites, such as Cyclops, Wolverine (he's everywhere, ain't he), Emma Frost, and with multiple books having the same characters, this really doesnt help push forward great characters. (Still waiting for Dust, Surge and pretty much most of the New X-Men vol 2. cast to come back)

I definitely agree with this! X-Men has so many characters, so what's the problem of focusing on new characters who were introduced? I would definitely like to see an X-Men book focus on brand new characters and actually give them development that could match them up with the older X-Men.

#50 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@tomchu said:

Am I the only here still waiting for the Claremont's 80s idea where Cannonball succeeds Cyclops and Moonstar succeeds Storm? I swear that was the solve purpose of these characters.

I'm sure WTAS would benefit from having their alumnus coming back and teaching the kids. Go Chamber!

I would love for Cannonball and Moonstar to become the leaders of the X-Men!

I'm pretty sure that was the plan, until somewhere along the line, Rob Liefeld came and whisked Cannonball off his feet when Cable came into the picture, and then Fabian Nicieza and a bunch of other writers and something something something. Basically, Moonstar and Cannonball were being tossed between Uncanny X-Men and X-Force, never fulfilling the spot Claremont built for them.

That's so sad. It's like every time there's some kind of potential for characters, that potential is just crushed when a new writer comes in and does something different for the character.

Sad but true. And sometimes, they create awesome characters (Fantomex for example) with interesting back stories and powers, but arent given enough time to develop their own personality and style (Grant Morrison's New X-Men was too rushed. Frank Quitely's art is usually better).

Problem about X-Men is that there are too many awesome characters, but the X-Books like focusing on fan-favourites, such as Cyclops, Wolverine (he's everywhere, ain't he), Emma Frost, and with multiple books having the same characters, this really doesnt help push forward great characters. (Still waiting for Dust, Surge and pretty much most of the New X-Men vol 2. cast to come back)

I definitely agree with this! X-Men has so many characters, so what's the problem of focusing on new characters who were introduced? I would definitely like to see an X-Men book focus on brand new characters and actually give them development that could match them up with the older X-Men.

Sadly, I fear by introducing more mutants into the world, you get too many sidelined. And then Marvel would have to think of another House of M situation to decrease that number to a more tolerable number.

What I didn't like about House of M is that all the fan-favourites kept their powers :\ and all the unpopular kids got blown up in a bus. literally.

I don't even know how Marvel can dig themselves out of the entire situation. Do I hear Reboot?

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