The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.
I think for the sake of knowing history people should go look at what has happened every single time anyone has tried to destroy or control the Phoenix, it always ends the same way. Oh sh!t bad idea, run away and hope it doesn't kill us all.
I'm making a judgement on the crossover: Its stupid. LOL.
I'm not judging by what I think will happen. I'm saying that there's no justifiable reason for why Wolverine should go against either Team, unless this become Wolvie's X-Men and the Avengers vs Cyke's X-Men.
I don't see how you would think Wolverine doesn't have a reason.
Wolverine because of his past with Jean would give him interested in it. He is also already an Avenger which puts him in it. Not to mention I dunno the fact that an entity that could destroy him and his students is coming to Earth which doesn't afford him the luxury of simple bowing out of this mission if it was a simple Avengers vs X-men issue.
Sitting with his head in the sand and ignoring it would be the real stupid thing.
I don't see how you would think Wolverine doesn't have a reason.
Wolverine because of his past with Jean would give him interested in it. He is also already an Avenger which puts him in it. Not to mention I dunno the fact that an entity that could destroy him and his students is coming to Earth which doesn't afford him the luxury of simple bowing out of this mission if it was a simple Avengers vs X-men issue.
Sitting with his head in the sand and ignoring it would be the real stupid thing.
He definitely has a stake in it. Just not sure why he'd take the Avenger's side.
@ReVamp: I have to agree since one side is trying to do something most likely impossible and the other side is trying to do something they should know for a fact is going to blow up in their faces
What would you suggest they do then? Doing nothing is the worst thing because that gets the planet destroyed.
@ReVamp: I have to agree since one side is trying to do something most likely impossible and the other side is trying to do something they should know for a fact is going to blow up in their faces
What would you suggest they do then? Doing nothing is the worst thing because that gets the planet destroyed.
In general or here?
But I'd advise him to NOT JOIN THE TEAM THAT'S ATTACKING HIS SCHOOL. Y'know. I think it'd be pretty smart and all that.
@ReVamp: No just turn on the specific mutants who are planning on doing something stupid that could get the entire solar system blown up
I'm not saying Cyke may or may not be stupid, but if anyone can do anything its him and THE AVENGERS ARE ATTACKING HIS SCHOOL. Why is everyone excluding that?
@ReVamp: I'd advise him to tell both teams this is a monumentally bad idea and to contact people like Dr. Strange or the Annhilators that might actually be able to do something about the Phoenix before it gets here
@ReVamp: I'm not defending the attack on the school, in fact I think both sides are being ridiculous and this problem is bigger than both of them, if they were smart they'd take what has been learned about the phoenix and work together to try to keep it away from Earth with out destroying the world in the process
@ReVamp: I'd advise him to tell both teams this is a monumentally bad idea and to contact people like Dr. Strange or the Annhilators that might actually be able to do something about the Phoenix before it gets here
Can't argue with that.
@joshmightbe said:
@ReVamp: I'm not defending the attack on the school, in fact I think both sides are being ridiculous and this problem is bigger than both of them, if they were smart they'd take what has been learned about the phoenix and work together to try to keep it away from Earth with out destroying the world in the process
Exactly. Let me translate that into ReVampish. THIS IS STUPID.
Because he thinks the Avengers are right and what Cyclops is doing is stupid.
So obviously let's turn on mutants.
I already explained how that is faulty logic. He is fighting one group of mutants because they are doing something that endanger not only all mutants but every being on the planet. There is not turning on mutants going on. Another point of view is he's fighting for mutants and Cyclopses action are the ones being harmful.
But I'd advise him to NOT JOIN THE TEAM THAT'S ATTACKING HIS SCHOOL. Y'know. I think it'd be pretty smart and all that.
You are assuming again. It hasn't happened yet nor does he know it will.. You don't know for sure what the Avengers are doing their and you don't know he will still be on their side if they do or why. You ask why people are excluding it when the real question is why aren't you. You are basing your logic something you don't know the details about.
Because he thinks the Avengers are right and what Cyclops is doing is stupid.
Cool beans. I'd like to see how him joining the team that's attack his home is good writing.
I already explained how that is faulty logic. He is fighting one group of mutants because they are doing something that endanger not only all mutants but every being on the planet.
And he's joining the team that's attacking his home.
You are assuming again. It hasn't happened yet nor does he know it will.. You don't know for sure what the Avengers are doing their and you don't know he will still be on their side if they do or why. You ask why people are excluding it when the real question is why aren't you. You are basing your logic something you don't know the details about.
Yes we do. Because you forget that Marvel are greedy whores and just want to give you a random fight and a lackluster story, much like all the other crossovers they've done lately. I'm basing my opinion (not logic, don't put words into my mouth, I never said I was being logical about this because there's nothing to be logical about, I'm going purely based on what I feel) on the patterns of what has happened over the last 10 Years with Marvel comics.
Cool beans. I'd like to see how him joining the team that's attack his home is good writing.
Utopia isn't his home. They School is and we don't know if he is attacking it. Like to see how you think him standing by while he believes Cycops is risking the world on a power grab is good writing. Or that fact that a destroyed Utopia is better then helping the Avengers put a girl in protective custody. That's what you call good writing?
And he's joining the team that's attacking his home.
Once again Utopia isn't his home and even if it was if someone close to me was being foolish with a power that could destroy the world and not wiling to listen too reason and stop you bets believe I'm going to action. To simply stand by and do nothing because it's his 'home" is not only stupid but insane.
Yes we do. Because you forget that Marvel are greedy whores and just want to give you a random fight and a lackluster story, much like all the other crossovers they've done lately. I'm basing my opinion (not logic, don't put words into my mouth, I never said I was being logical about this because there's nothing to be logical about, I'm going purely based on what I feel) on the patterns of what has happened over the last 10 Years with Marvel comics.
and all that boils down to is you don't really know anything and going simply on assumptions on what you think will happen at the school. Making you're points about what's going to happen and how that effects the now groundless and meaningless because you don't really knpw whats going to happen.
Utopia isn't his home. They School is and we don't know if he is attacking it. Like to see how you think him standing by while he believes Cycops is risking the world on a power grab is good writing. Or that fact that a destroyed Utopia is better then helping the Avengers put a girl in protective custody. That's what you call good writing?
How do you know he believes Scott is risking the world? Maybe he thinks Scott is right, because he trusts Scott with matters such as this. Because they've been together for years. They merely disagree with Politics.
Once again Utopia isn't his home and even if it was if someone close to me was being foolish with a power that could destroy the world and not wiling to listen too reason and stop you bets believe I'm going to action. To simply stand by and do nothing because it's his 'home" is not only stupid but insane.
I never said Utopia isn't his home, I'm referring to a school. Your inserting personal bias here. We don't know whether Scott is doing something wrong or not. And again, Utopia isn't his home.
and all that boils down to is you don't really know anything and going simply on assumptions on what you think will happen at the school. Making you're points about what's going to happen groundless and meaningless because you don't really know whats going to happen.
I never said they were based on logic, you merely interpreted them as such. Just because I go the battle forums doesn't mean I can't give my opinion on something without using logic and going by what I feel. I'm not trying to prove anything at this point because its impossible to prove any point until the story has finished.
Okay the Avengers have a flawed but somewhat logical idea, a dangerous force is coming to Earth so they want to destroy it where as scott's idea is completely insane, Jean Grey was possibly the most level headed of all the X-men and she couldn't stop the phoenix from going insane and Scott wants to give this power to an obviously unstable chick with a history of using her power to manipulate people who will most likely go Dark Phoenix in about 8 seconds. why does no one else see how horrible an idea this is?
How do you know he believes Scott is risking the world? Maybe he thinks Scott is right, because he trusts Scott with matters such as this. Because they've been together for years. They merely disagree with Politics.
DId you read the issue or his conversation with Cap? Unless he was being misleading everything he said and has done support that. Wolverine said that everything was tried to control it last time even going so far as Jean killing herself and it didn't work. He also said Scott wasn't totally able to see the situation clearly. It's more then simply disagree in politics. He thinks Scott is wrongly for endangering the kids by putting them in harms way. He doesn't think the risk is worth the power they gain by having the kids as soldiers is worth it. Kinda like he is risking the
I never said Utopia isn't his home, I'm referring to a school. Your inserting personal bias here. We don't know whether Scott is doing something wrong or not. And again, Utopia isn't his home.
I only said Utopia because you said he attacks his home and that is the only place he has attacked. Until you know it as a fact that he or the Avengers attacks the school isn't the truth. Which makes the statement of ..... And he's joining the team that's attacking his home. .......wrong because you don't know it will happen and don't know if he will stay with them if it does. What we do know is Wolverine has no idea the Avengers will go to the school at time of agreeing to go with the avengers.
My comments on attacking his Utopia and it being going on as it's his home is because THAT"S THE ONLY PLACE THAT WE KNOW IS BEING ATTACKED.
Saying I'm inserting bias into this isn't true. Biased for what. all my judgments are based on the situation as given which differs from yours that considers things that you don't know. I don't favor either teem. Scott is trying to control the Phoenix for an agenda all based on some vague thinking they it's their "right". He disregards what Hope or anyone else wants to do because he wont consider anyone else thinks but himself. Cyclops is one of my favorite characters and I make a lot of excuses for his actions but with the information we have so far he is in the wrong.
I never said they were based on logic, you merely interpreted them as such. Just because I go the battle forums doesn't mean I can't give my opinion on something without using logic and going by what I feel. I'm not trying to prove anything at this point because its impossible to prove any point until the story has finished.
I interpreted them as they were presented. A commentary that mattered of the situation at hand. Going to the battle forums without some logical reason to make you feel that way make the opinion baseless and meaningless the conversation of the thread. Which is what I said about your opinion using made up points as a bases. It would be conversation just for conversation. If it was like you are trying to present it now you wouldn't continue point against point against someone who is going based on what we know.
@joshmightbe: Both sides are being stupid. Avengers have a noble idea: Save the earth from Phoenix. But look how Cap went about it. He just shows up on the shores of the island. He doesn't announce himself, he doesn't call ahead to inform Cyclops he is on the way for an urgent meeting/briefing. He shows up on the shore, stands there, and waits for one of the telepaths to recognize his presence while his army is on stand-by cloaked. He was never intended to make this a peaceful, mutual thing. It was gonna be Cap's way or no way
Now, look at Scott's point of view. Think about it: The Avengers are there to take the person that Cyclops and the mutant community have sacrificed everything for. Scott's ordered people to kill, Nightcrawler died, Scott sent his son on a suicide mission, and he lost most of his long-time friends all in the mission to protect the mutant messiah. Scott has more stake in this than anybody on the planet, and Hope possesses the fragment of the very same cosmic entity that impersonated his wife and then got her killed so she could transcend reality, possessed his girlfriend, and has to tried to eat him, his friends, and multiple worlds a few times.
Both are being irrational. But Cap did the single worse thing he could have done to cause this fight: Not gonna directly to Scott and have a talk about this as soon as you knew it was Phoenix, and really understand what the Phoenix is and maybe come up with a way for both sides to have what they want. But no, Steve goes to Logan and stupidity insues.
This is basically the same problem I had with X-Sanction. None of the Avengers had a prior beef with Cable, but instead of Cable walking up to their door and being like, "Dudes, we need to have a talk..." he goes on this mini-rampage. Captain America basically is pulling the same nonsense.
As to whether or not Wolverine is a traitor or not, I think it depends on why he is helping the Avengers, if that's the case. Wolverine wouldn't let anything happen to the students or the school, so if he knows that the Avengers are plotting to do something terrible to the school, then he will immediately join the X-Men to fight against the Avengers. Personally, I think that Wolverine should stay neutral, especially for the sake of the kids since Wolverine getting involved would cause the school to be in jeopardy if anything were to come out of this battle, but Marvel will probably find some way to get Wolverine involved somehow even though it's not necessary.
@Rabbitearsblog: Try having Avengers sent to the School. Not everyone there will like that the Avengers are watching them. There's your reason should Wolverine turn on the Avengers to aid the X-Men.
@Rabbitearsblog: Try having Avengers sent to the School. Not everyone there will like that the Avengers are watching them. There's your reason should Wolverine turn on the Avengers to aid the X-Men.
Exactly. If the Avengers even think about hurting the kids because they're mutants, then Wolverine will definitely side with the X-Men to the very end and I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel tries to have it set up where the Avengers might do more harm to the mutant population.
@TheGreyOutcastX: @Rabbitearsblog: Well, from what I understand, The Avengers somehow end up at the Jean Grey school and a fight erupts. I believe Fraction mentioned Iceman and Colossus fight both hulks respectively. If that doesn't get Logan to choose a side...nothing will.
@TheGreyOutcastX: @Rabbitearsblog: Well, from what I understand, The Avengers somehow end up at the Jean Grey school and a fight erupts. I believe Fraction mentioned Iceman and Colossus fight both hulks respectively. If that doesn't get Logan to choose a side...nothing will.
Hmmm...that's interesting...so Iceman will team up with the X-Men?
@Rabbitearsblog: I'm not entirely sure. I can only assume the Avengers try to strong arm Logan or Hope somehow ends up at the mansion for the time being.
@Rabbitearsblog: I'm not entirely sure. I can only assume the Avengers try to strong arm Logan or Hope somehow ends up at the mansion for the time being.
@Rickbarry: I'm thinking the first. I believe that Rogue still has some sort of bond to Hope which will play a role in her getting involved which will lead her team to just in.
@papad1992: Why to which? Cancellation or the Avengers Academy?
Cancellation was cause it was the lowest selling X-title, next to New Mutants (which is still trucking as they are trying to be Cyclops's answer to X-Factor)
AA because of X-23 is a member and it's a school for young heroes. Makes sense.
I meant the imprisoned Avenger's Academy situation!? I really don't care about the cancellation (kinda happy now, maybe we'll get a New X-Men book now that most of the students are back in school)! So can u elaborate on the detaining?
the editor in chief axel said that there are no plans for a new xmen book cause a book with only teens in it and without popular characters doesn't sell so much so we are gonna have to wait alot longer...sadly
@papad1992: Why to which? Cancellation or the Avengers Academy?
Cancellation was cause it was the lowest selling X-title, next to New Mutants (which is still trucking as they are trying to be Cyclops's answer to X-Factor)
AA because of X-23 is a member and it's a school for young heroes. Makes sense.
I meant the imprisoned Avenger's Academy situation!? I really don't care about the cancellation (kinda happy now, maybe we'll get a New X-Men book now that most of the students are back in school)! So can u elaborate on the detaining?
the editor in chief axel said that there are no plans for a new xmen book cause a book with only teens in it and without popular characters doesn't sell so much so we are gonna have to wait alot longer...sadly
Someone should show Axel the New X-Men series that was very popular and successful... until Messiah Complex happened!!
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Didn't one of the previews show Captain America asking Wolverine whether he and the school (in which Wolverine corrected him saying just himself) was on their side?
From what I can tell, its not the school joining the Avenger's side, but just Wolverine. I mean, Wolverine built the school so that kids won't be dragged into fights, and him bringing kids to side with the Avengers will pretty much make him a hypocrite.
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Well someone needs to tell this guy to brush up on some Dust heavy stories and see that considering someone as a traitor is way out of reach for her character!! I hate how they're treating her recently!!
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Well someone needs to tell this guy to brush up on some Dust heavy stories and see that considering someone as a traitor is way out of reach for her character!! I hate how they're treating her recently!!
That's classic Surge, but Dust's always been really good friends with X-23. I'm sure she'd see her side of things.
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Well someone needs to tell this guy to brush up on some Dust heavy stories and see that considering someone as a traitor is way out of reach for her character!! I hate how they're treating her recently!!
I wouldn't say the way Dust has been portrayed recently is out of character to be honest, given her choice to stay with Cyclops and her reasons behind it, as well as what she's been through, I think it's just character development, good character development at that.
He is with the Avengers because he fought with Scott because he was putting kids on the battlefield and this time it's the same.The Phoenix Force is coming for Hope and he doesn't want help from others.
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Well someone needs to tell this guy to brush up on some Dust heavy stories and see that considering someone as a traitor is way out of reach for her character!! I hate how they're treating her recently!!
I wouldn't say the way Dust has been portrayed recently is out of character to be honest, given her choice to stay with Cyclops and her reasons behind it, as well as what she's been through, I think it's just character development, good character development at that.
Have u read the New X-Men series? That was great character development for Dust. Having her stay on utopia as a solider recruit like a military is completely and utterly out of character for her and bad development!! She's only really explained her "reason" recently in X-Men Legacy briefly but that's not a good enough reason for her to not be by her friends! The ones that endured the same pain but have come to the conclusion to overcome it!
- None of the leadership involved in Schism and it looks like AvX is going to make any sense in their actions, that seems to be taking a back seat so the writers can steer the story in whatever direction they choose
@TheGreyOutcastX: I've seen that cover before! I was hoping u would know more behind it but I'll just have to wait!! There's also this cover too:
AVX Tie-In: Avengers Academy #30 Cover
It features some X-students on it...
the writer cage said that dust and surge are gonna dispute with laura and think of her as a traitor (although that is out of character for dust)
Could you show me the interview for this please ? Cause i know Cage said that both Surge and Dust would have a long talk with Laure about her decisions and such, but now accuse her or think of her of being a traitor.
The last time we talked about "Avengers Academy," you mentioned X-23 would play a role in the "AvX" story line. Will we see her interact with the kids of "Generation Hope" or will she be interacting with some other youthful X-Men?
Laura's interactions will actually be primarily with her former classmates from the New X-Men, Dust and Surge, who consider her a traitor for being part of an Avengers organization that is keeping them against their will. It's an interesting situation for someone as unused to exploring emotions as Laura. She left the X-Men in part because she didn't want to choose sides in the "Schism," but now there's no avoiding it -- you're either on one side or the other. So she'll have to really consider who and what she wants to be
Well someone needs to tell this guy to brush up on some Dust heavy stories and see that considering someone as a traitor is way out of reach for her character!! I hate how they're treating her recently!!
I wouldn't say the way Dust has been portrayed recently is out of character to be honest, given her choice to stay with Cyclops and her reasons behind it, as well as what she's been through, I think it's just character development, good character development at that.
but dust calling laura a traitor ...........thats off i mean wouldn't dust try to see her side of things first and then label her as a traitor
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