I was looking into sales charts for comics back in the mid-90's and it is shocking to see how the X-Men dominated the market, the likes of which nothing being published today can even come close to holding a candle to. From blogs, articles and wikis, it is easy to see that the X-Men were equally popular in the 80's as they were in the 90's. I can remember being a kid in 90's and seeing the X-Men everywhere, from stickers, to toys, to TV, to collectable cards, to video games, to other kinds of merchandise to the comics themselves. The X-Men just had this broad spectrum appeal that was palpable even to a child.

I look around today and see that the X-Men have been reduced to "just another franchise" in comics. With the exception of Wolverine, I barely see any X-Men related merchandise (toys, shirts, collectables). The X-Men seem to have been sidelined in games as well. Obviously Marvel/Disney wants to push the properties they have sole control over rather than share a piece of the pie with another company (understandable); however I feel like the X-Men have been in decline for far longer than the last few years. I remember being in high school in the early/mid 2000's and there was little X-Men related things beyond the teenybopper show and the movies, both of which were fleetingly popular.

Did people just get tired of the X-Men? Did their struggle for civil rights some how become less important/meaningful since the 90's? Did other heroes simply speak to the zeitgeist better than the X-Men now-a-days? How do you explain their calamitous fall from grace?

The entire comic book industry crashed not just X-Men.

it's more that the X-men were still popular in the 90's.

The comics from the 80's were really what made them popular in the first place, and as that popularity with comic readers was the impetus for them having their own popular cartoon (X-Men: The Animated Series) in '92, they then became even more popular in comics as the cartoon was what brought a lot of new readers in. The comic industry in general were having a rough go then, and it was really cartoons like X-men:TAS and Batman's series that got a whole new generation started on them.

Of course with greater popularity came more and more merchandising, but mainstream comics have always had their feet in that, the X-men just happened to be especially well-known at the time.

The movies, especially the first two, were actually really really popular; no one really thought they could be as good as they were at the time, so they were kind of a big deal, but it was a different kind of big deal than the zeitgeist of the early 90's era. Firstly, while the movies were really impressive at the time, they weren't something that people grew up with like the comics or the cartoons. They could only be "fleetingly popular" in that media, because that was just the nature of the media.

They were just one or two stories rather than a whole series like they had been in other media. And many people who liked the characters from those sources still thought the characters were too different and not done properly in the films. Also, because superhero movies had yet to come into their own as a popular genre, it was easy to see the success of the first X-men movies as something of a fluke, inspired more by 80's and 90's nostalgia than any genuine interest in the genre.

More than that, the comics themselves had been going down in both popularity and quality since the heyday o the mid-90's. As people out-grew the cartoons, the comics were already trying to again reinvent themselves for the next generation, alienating longtime fans without being able to generate interest among a generation that was less and less impressed with comic books because they were growing up with more sophisticated media, more impressive special effects, and above all: the internet.

The thing is, the stories that made the X-men popular in the first place are still just as popular, and probably more well known, as they ever were. Even now people still think of the 80's and even the early 90's as the most classic periods for the X-men. As the cartoon became popular in the 90's, the comics changed somewhat to be more recognizable to that audience, but they still managed to maintain much of the same style and tone that had made them popular in the 80's.

As people outgrew stories they associated with their childhood, or just became less interested in comics, superhero comics as a genre really struggled to find new ways to engage a generation who's cultural context had become entirely different, and many of those approaches ended up doing as much harm as good because perpetual reinvention was alienating what was still left of the fan-base.

Personally I think the X-men eventually returned to greatness in the 00's, but only in the comics; it's just most that people weren't reading the comics anymore by that point, so it's less of a popular culture thing now. Superhero movies have become the primary presence for comic characters in the mainstream, while comics themselves have once again become more of a subculture.

In that subculture, X-men have remained as popular as Superman, Batman, or Spider-man, so they are still generally among the best selling comic characters, they just don't have that really popular edge they had over those characters in the 90's.

The fact that they're now on equal footing for popularity with the Avengers is likely due the popularity o the Marvel movies, but the Avengers have been gaining on them ever since Spider-man and Wolverine joined, just like the JLA did in the 90's when they finally put Superman and Batman back on the team. Considering that both the Avengers and the JLA had been far more popular than the X-men until the 80's, I think it's actually kind of cool that they've both bounced back from the X-men's cultural dominance.

Comics arent the same

I wonder myself the same thing.

There's a story that I've heard: Joe Quesada intentionally took the focus of the Marvel Universe away from the X-Men in the mid-2000s because after all the crappy stories of the 90s, he knew they were a nearly unsalvageable mess.

(And if they weren't then, they will be once Bendis is done with them)

I would believe that. Joe Quesada always seems like he has a dislike for the X-Men franchise. You can listen to any number of interviews where he either avoids talking about them altogether or doesn't speak very highly of the franchise when asked

I'm not sure about that, because I've also heard the reasoning behind House of M was the same as One More Day (i.e. JQ wanted the X-Men to be more like they were when he was a kid).

I know for me... the Xmen TAS is what introduced me to the comics, and I know it was for others as well.. and tho the movies are big.. it doesn't have the same effect.. I can watch captain america or avengers or Spiderman movies and could care less about their books.. so there isnt anythinh pulling the new generation in besides jubilee being a vampire to pull in the vampire fanatics.. ( stupid) also I think Xmen needs better Writers .. cuz xmen in the 80s had no toy merchandise nor a cartoon and they were good cuz of the art the writers and good stories

I think their "fall from grace" (if that is fair to say, considering they are still quite valuable) has to do with an intersection of a generally weaker creative direction for the franchise as a whole, over-saturation of certain characters even though nothing was really being done with them, and the overall tropes employed during the '90s era.

I think that the X-Men's popularity was the result of the long-term direction of a single writer (Chris Claremont) and a few artists on the series to an extent largely unheard of in today's Marvel. Since the X-Men weren't as successful as other books, the creative team had the freedom to experiment above and beyond what other titles were doing at the time, so as a result, characters changed, rosters shifted, and there was an overall sense of progression that made the storylines have a larger impact.

As they gained popularity, more editorial attention was paid to the X-Men such that there more popular characters were marketed constantly, they were drawn into mass mega-events which interrupted the creative teams' long-term plans for the series and characters (an analysis of mega-events deserves a discussion of its own), and certain characters became valuable IP that generated revenue for Marvel so they were protected to the extent that nothing too dramatic could happen to them. This can simultaneously make it appear that the X-Men were everywhere even though nothing really dramatic was happening to change the status quo.

I don't think the X-Men ever really spoke to civil rights in an important or meaningful way, though it did certainly contribute to the dialogue in the comic book medium with stories like "God Loves, Man Kills" and "The New Mutants". It was a theme that generated a few storylines and certainly angst, but civil rights was often employed as a trope to always have an "enemy" for the heroes to deal with even though an actual villain was absent from a storyline. Certain writers certainly treated that subject very seriously compared to others, but I would say that the '90s was generally a time period where the X-Men were more focused on big shoulderpads, ammo belts, and hugely disproportionate muscles and boobs.

I think because the X-Men had so many different writers over the years (which started in the 90s after Chris Claremont left the title), it might have caused some confusion among the fans about what was really going on with the X-Men stories. Back in the 80s, the X-Men series was mainly written by Chris Claremont, so the stories were very consistent at the time. However, after he left and so many different writers came on board, the stories did start to get a bit confusing (with a few gems here and there). Also, ever since Marvel teamed up with Disney to make movies, I think that Marvel has been focusing heavily on the franchises that they got (mainly the Avengers and possibly Guardians of the Galaxy if it does well) and therefore, they didn't put too much advertising into the X-Men.

I think because the X-Men had so many different writers over the years (which started in the 90s after Chris Claremont left the title), it might have caused some confusion among the fans about what was really going on with the X-Men stories. Back in the 80s, the X-Men series was mainly written by Chris Claremont, so the stories were very consistent at the time. However, after he left and so many different writers came on board, the stories did start to get a bit confusing (with a few gems here and there). Also, ever since Marvel teamed up with Disney to make movies, I think that Marvel has been focusing heavily on the franchises that they got (mainly the Avengers and possibly Guardians of the Galaxy if it does well) and therefore, they didn't put too much advertising into the X-Men.

The simple answer is Marvel. When Marvel sold the rights of the X-Men to 20th Century Fox. When that happened everything change about the X-Men franchise. Everything been about The Avengers, Marvel really just focus on them and putting them every where.

@oldnightcrawler I have to disagree with you, when you said 'Personally I think the X-men eventually returned to greatness in the 00'

I consider the 2000's as the worst X-Men period, it's when Marvel destroy the X-Men franchise. They destroy a lot of good X-Men characters, they destroy all the popular relationships. The X-Men stop being a family, they stop living like normal people. When was the last the time we saw the X-Men go shopping or go on date. How often do we see the X-Men in casual clothes, hardly ever.

Then most of the mutant race was wipe out. Then X-Men became center around the same cast for nearly 6 years. Then we had loads of mutants in the X-Men franchise and most of them were neglected.

Since Grant Morrison came along , we had so many poorly constructed characters and none of them are really relevant.

That's just the comics.

When was the last time we saw a good X-Men game, oh yeah X-Men Legends 2, which was about 10 years ago.

When was the last time we saw a good X-Men cartoon. oh yeah 6 years ago with Wolverine and the X-Men.

Have we ever had X-Men animated movie. ? No, only Wolverine gets that. Sure we had X-Men Anime, that wasn't that good and it didn't feature all the X-Men characters.

I agree @phoenixofthetides As they gained popularity, more editorial attention was paid to the X-Men such that there more popular characters were marketed constantly, they were drawn into mass mega-events which interrupted the creative teams' long-term plans for the series and characters (an analysis of mega-events deserves a discussion of its own),

I do think this happened more in the 2000's than the 90's.

I do find it strange when the 90's get criticize a lot, the late 90's wasn't that good, the early 90's was. The early 90's was a good period for X-Men comics. I mean back than, we had good writers like Fabian Nicieza and Scott Lobdell. In the 2000's we had Matt Fraction and Jason Aaron. Worst X-Men writers ever.

1. I don't see it that way at all. The 00's had some great couples: Cyclops and Emma (the best X-couple), Angel and Beak, Colossus and Kitty, Prodigy and Surge, Richter and Shatterstar --a lot of my favorite X-couples are from that decade. And, to me, Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, David's X-Factor, New Mutants (vol.3), Brubaker's run, and most of New X-Men (vol.2) all had the kind of familial comradery that I associate with great X-men runs.

2. so? it was a good cast, in most of the books, most of the time between '01 and '10. There were a lot of good stories. Not every character that was good was being used, but that's almost always the case.

3. Morrison also made really good characters like Quire, Dust, and the Cuckoos, all of whom have been in some great stories since. Relevance is in the eye of the beholder, but almost no character has it when they're new.

4. I don't really play video games, and I think of the X-men as comic characters, so I guess I just don't have that expectation.

5. I don't think any of the cartoons are very good, really. Not compared to the comics. I think even the worst X-men comics are more interesting than what any of the cartoons have produced.

I have to agree that X-cutioner's Song was pretty nothing. So I guess there was a dip in quality there..

But I think the X-men had a good couple of years following that; from Uncanny' #297 - X-Cutioner's Song Epilogue Songs End to at least issue #319 - Untapped Potential were a pretty solid few years, and X-men was quite good around the same period, from like issue #17 - A Skinning of Souls to at least #38 - Smoke and Mirrors were mostly good. It had a few more dud issues than Uncanny' had in the same period, but between the two of them it's still probably a high point for the 90's. '93-'94 were probably the best the X-men had been since like '86.

Its not the worse thing ever, it was just a chaotic time.The multitude of spin offs had begun and they all just folded into one another and characters were reworked for the benefit of artists who had little respect or understanding of what came before

My point is that it is a period of contention from many X-fans due to lack of Claremont leaving and dips in characters building, in a way, its almost like the X-Men were rebooted at the time, the changes in the teams dynamic, the changes in outfits, character that had been previously pretty relevant, like Forge for instance being relegated to almost nothing. There also just seemed to be a precedent to eliminate anything interesting Claremont did....one single issue of Uncanny X-Men eliminates the Reavers and the Hellions, probably because the writers and Harras weren't creative enough to know what do with them.....but alas, they did create the infamous, super well known, timeless villlains such as "Hazard" and "Siena Blaze" and lets not forget "Adam X", the greatest X character ever :D

If you go back and read the stuff from the Blue and Gold team stuff you will find some characters written very poorly. An example would be Beast, he just primarily functions as the Blue teams "smart guy" for years and doesn't even have any noteworthy story arcs. Where if you compare it to what Claremont was doing right up until he left....everyone was fleshed out and the team had a great balance between all its members. The main reason the early 90s suffer is because of what it had to follow.

1. see, for me that's a product of the late 80's more than the early 90's. I see what you mean if you're thinking about the Silvestri/Lee/Liefeld crowd, but by '93 the regular artists on the main books were John Romita Jr. and Andy Kubert, both of whom are pretty top-shelf artists in my books, and were both doing great work at the time. I tend to clump Joe Madureira in with those styley image guys, but even he did some of his best work in this period.

2. Again, to me that has much more to do with Jim Lee's influence; he's the one who did all those awful costume designs. Maybe it's that I don't think of the last few years of CC's run to be especially good, but while they did briefly get worse after he left, by '93 they were definitely on the upswing and better than they had been in years.

3. Yeah, but the issue you're talking about The Uncanny X-Men #281 - Fresh Upstart, again, was written by Jim Lee, not Lobdell. Lobdell and Nicieza tried to run with some of the last cool stuff that Claremont brought in. They kept the Acolytes as major villains, as well as Fitzroy and the Upstarts, Sinister, Sabertooth; they kept Gambit, Rogue, Psylocke, and Jubilee as the main characters, and developed Emma into a hero the way Claremont did with Magneto. If anything, they were trying to stay more true to what Claremont had done than he did himself near the end. Definitely more than when he was working with Jim Lee.

4. Sure, it had to follow Claremont, but it also was following Claremont's weakest period. Personally I think it got better after he left (just not right away) and, though I do think their era petered out, I think it got worse again after Lobdell and Nicieza left.

Yes, I am specifically talking about the Lee, Liefield and Portacio crowd. Their presence was very much the architecture for the early 90s. The X-Men cartoon that became so ever popular and the way people usually picture the X-Men is due to Lees designs. Not to mention the look they had and the giant guns characters seemed to carry. All that stuff came from the eventual Image founders.

I disagree. There is nothing to write home about from the X-Men titles in the mid 90s really either. Its all opinion

You are incorrect. Jim Lee never wrote anything, he plotted it. John Byrne actually wrote the script to that, but, as I said, it was all under Bob Harras suggestion anyways. I also disagree with you saying "they stayed true to Claremont" it's more like they couldn't develop anything on their own so they just used pre-existing characters. They also totally admonished ideas like Gambit being a traitor and Mr Sinister not being what he was originally intended to be because they were trying to dumb down the series for new readers that would result of the cartoon. There is actually interviews of Bob Harras admitting that.

Yeah, after Harras and Lee forced Claremont out the door they basically cribbed a bunch of his ideas he had for the next 6 or 7 years. Which is actually kind of hilarious.

Again. For the 30th time, the late 80s being weak X-books is your opinion. I thought it was just as good as anything else he did. Good interaction between the characters, good development of characters that had been around for a while but nobody cared about like Havok and Dazzler (not any writer can do stuff like that), new concepts and directions, new twists on old villains and new villains, new characters, new directions for old characters.....notice how many times the word "new" popped up there. It just seems like that for a lot of people that if the X-Men don't have whatever characters they grew up liking on the team while living at a school and fighting Magneto and Sentinels it isn't the X-Men.....I wonder if those same people have a heart attack when a TV series they watch changes from season 1 to season 5. Things change, lie goes on.

All in all the 90s were a great time for X-Men.

Important things that happened in 90s X-Men.

• In 1990 Gambit is introduced
• In 1990 Cable is introduced

• In 1991 Cyclops, Jean Grey and the Beast became X-Men again. they had been in X-Factor since 1986 (In fact Jean Grey hadn't been a member of the X-Men since 1980.)
• Cyclops became the leader of X-Men again in 1991. Storm had been the team's leader through most of the 80s

• In 1991 Professor X returns to being confined to a wheelchair after being able to walk since 1983.
• Professor X then returned to living at the X-mansion after being gone since 1985.

• Also in 1991 Magneto stops wearing his crappy 80s costume and starts looking like Magneto again. and he stopped being a friend to the X-Men and started being a bad-ass adversary again.

• In 1991 Deadpool is introduced
• In 1991 X-Force is introduced
• In 1991 the Havok & Polaris version of X-Factor is introduced
• In 1991 Bishop is introduced

• In 1991 the Acolytes were introduced
• In 1993 Illyana Rasputin died from the legacy virus
• In 1993 Colossus joined the Acolytes
• In 1993 Magneto's Avalon Space station is introduced
• In 1993 the adamantium was stripped from Logan's skeleton
• 1993 Magneto is left in a catatonic state after Professor X uses his telepathic powers to shut down his mind
• In 1994 Scott and Jean get married

• In 1994 The Hellions are killed by Trevor Fitzroy
• In 1994 Cyclops learns that Cable is his son Nathan
• In 1994 the Generation-X team is introduced
• In 1994 Jubilee leaves the X-Men
• In 1995 Magneto's Avalon Space Station is destroyed
• In 1995 the Age of Apocalypse alternate timeline is introduced

And when you consider that the 90s was also X-Men's first big decade as a media franchise, it was obviously a classic era.

X-Men comics in the 2000s were mostly written and drawn by people who wanted to change everything about them, arrogant in thinking they could reinvent an already established and popular franchise. and it left the books virtually unrecognizable.

and considering how mainstream X-Men still was at the time thanks to the movies, it was a wasted time.

in the 2000s Marvel did not seem to have any interest in X-Men being popular. probably because 20th Century Fox owns the movie rights. so Marvel just let anybody come in and mess with the comic, it's characters and it's formula.

and that's the reason why X-Men isn't as good or popular as it was in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

@combo-man: I don’t think it had anything to do with Fox. Marvel wasn’t making its own films at the time.

@DevilMayehm666:

Then what was it? they didn't treat any other property so carelessly.

I believe MCU not being able to include X-Men characters was the main reason why X-Men has mostly been a disaster for the last 17 years. I guess we will know for sure if the Disney-Fox merger happens next year.

Remember Iron Man came out in early 2008 and was filmed in 2007, Marvel had bigger plans for their IP, and it looks like they knew X-Men wasn't going to fit into those plans.

Because Fox gave us poor xmen movies while Disney gave us awesome Avengers movies.

@jhazzroucher: So why did Logan get that screenplay Oscar nom? Being intellectually dishonest ain’t we?

Even if you didn't read the comics the X-Men had a big presence in pop culture. The '90s show was a hit, there were a ton of video games - and the classic arcade game - and they did a great job marketing the franchise, like having X-Men stuff at Pizza Hut. Plus, even the Marvel trading cards were big.

/threadover

Well they are not so unpopular esle they wouldn't keep making so much movies about them.

But they are not liked as they were in the 90's or before because the movies have become very bad (except maybe Old Man Logan) and the comics are bad as well. If they made good movies and good comics, people might like them more.

@jhazzroucher said:

I didn't like the X-men movies either, but if it wasn't for those movies a whole generation might not even know what X-Men is. kids sure as hell weren't buying the comics in the 2000s, so even if the movies did suck at least they were successful enough to keep the X-Men name around.

bad movies....

everyone knows who antman is yet they don't know who the heck mystique is