Hey guys,

I've just finished AvsX and there's something I do not quite get.

At the end they show Magneto on the run with a wanted poster in the background. I don't understand why though as he helped The Avengers towards the end? And the X-men who originally fought against the Avengers were pardoned. As Cap suggests he is just looking for the bad folk as he says"I wish your fellow renegade X-men felt the same"

Because of poor writing.

no reason whatsoever

Because unlike the rest of the Extinction team, he didn't hand himself in/betray the Phoenix 5.

Cause Marvel suck, that event was created to make the Avengers look better than the X-Men. Let's not forget Iron man did beat Magneto, what a load of rubbish.

@time: He did kinda Prep for Magneto so it wasn't totally unbelievable....

But yeah in regards to the OP, it basically comes down to the fact that once Cyclops was down, he still didn't side with the Avengers. Sure he fought against the Phoenix 5, but it doesn't mean he was going to be the Avengers whipping dog.

Yeah it was, Magneto has taken on all the x-Men before, solo and he looses to iron man. Yeah right.

You are both right. This is a clear case of no reason being given for something which is the result of lazy writing. It was clear that Magneto was a strong supporter of Cyclops and they intended for him to remain in the Cyclops camp in the aftermath of AvX. Even after all the other X-Men including Magneto that sided against the world joined the Avengers he is the only one singeled out for harassment asside for the P5 and no reason is given either.

Perhaps the fact that Utopia is no longer a sovereign nation (not that it ever was), or even a habitable landmass any more, resulted in Magneto losing his pseudo-immunity as a result of being a resident of the island.

The guy is still a mass murdering terrorist, I mean.

@citizenbane: Mutants were basically hunted for existing though, if I was an omega level mutant I wouldn't just stand by.

Bad writing, as has been stated. Any other reason is the false inference of subtext where there is none.

I dont know , Namor should be arrested , but in new avengers he is there on the side of CAP , and no one cares (except Black Panther , of course . )

yeah, as far as I understood it, Magneto was an outlaw before he hooked up with the X-men on Utopia, I don't see why he wouldn't still be now.

@henrik said:

Again - bad writing.

Considering the planet is about destroyed, I think they have bigger fish to fry, no pun intended. And I wouldn't be surprised if Namor has diplomatic immunity of some sorts, which I am pretty sure he does anyway.

So... they respect diplomatic immunity, but think it's alright to show up on a sovereign nation's doorstep and demand that one of it's citizens be handed over?

Again - bad writing. I'm not even going to go any farther into this argument b/c it's beyond dumb. Stop wasting your time trying to justify it.

@ctg: No. I'm saying that world is about be destroyed as in they all die and Namor being a king of a sovereign nation probably has diplomatic immunity, so bringing it up in that time of crisis when they didn't have any extra time to spare probably wasn't a good idea.

But hey, if you don't want to debate about it, fine. No reason to get testy about it, though.

When did maggie-neeto ever stop being a villian?

What sovereign nation? When has Utopia ever been a sovereign nation? It's a chunk of rock in US waters that was always the property of the US government. The government of San Francisco deciding it would be fun to have a mutant island as a tourist attraction doesn't mean it's their sovereign nation all of a sudden. The government of San Francisco doesn't even have the ability to make a decision like that. The mutants acting like the island is their little pretend-kingdom doesn't change the fact that they're permitted to reside there by the US government. As an official representative of the US government, and a high-ranking, influential one at that, Cap would have been well within his rights to have the entire island firebombed off the map if he wished.

@citizenbane said:

That would be the case were Utopia to exist in the real world , but as it so happens , it's not so in comics . Otherwise , as a law-enforcement agency , HAMMER too would have possessed every last right that you're giving Cap here , to simply barge into Utopia and level the whole island if they so wished .

Plainly and simply put , Cap's actions were a violation of international law , especially in light of the fact that there is no known extradition treaty between the US and Utopia established in comics .

Utopia was Asteroid M -- crashed into American waters -- it was raised to create Utopia and Namor created new Atlantis under it with pillars to help support it. No taxes were imposed on it -- they were self sustaining (to a point) so it's in a unique position of not really being part of the United States -- was the New Atlantis considered part of the United States?

It's left unaddressed in the comics but I have yet to see The Avengers claim Utopia as part of the United States, as evidenced by Captain America never stepping onto the beach when he came for Hope. However, none of them were stopped from going back to New York to create the Jean Grey Institute and Scott and the Gang were going back and forth from San Francisco whenever they wanted to. Add to that the location of where Scott's new school is (last I heard it was in Canada) so who knows how borders and whatnot works.

As for Magneto being outlawed -- I don't know how that works -- he can be considered an accessory after the fact? Then again, so can everyone else who joined in helping the P5 -- maybe it's just whoever sided with Cyclops that became personae non gratae and just by being on American soil, they could be arrested.

The hypocrisy with Namor is pretty bad -- diplomatic immunity doesn't preclude heads of state from becoming persona non grata. He should at the very least prevented from entering the United States.

Ugh -- freaking Marvel.

I think the "outlaw" aspect was a mistake in AvX. In the Consequences miniseries, he was only wanted for questioning like the other E-team members (Storm and Psylocke included) and never came in.

But then again why should the questioning have been limited to the E-team members? All the X-men that participated on Cyke's side should have been questioned as well. It's all pretty much PIS designed to set up the new status quo.

@chasereis: In Uncanny X-Men 200 or the first Avengers v. X-Men mini series, in an international court he was found not guilty of crimes against humanity for destroying the submarine in Uncanny X-Men 150. Though the world still considered him a threat, they left him alone (until the new Jim Lee X-Men series that introduced the Acolytes). So he was never a villain per se, just someone sticking up for mutant rights.

Even since the Acolytes, Magneto's actually been mostly retired from full on super-villain mode. Fatal Attractions was probably the last time he was any real threat, and that was 20 years ago.

But I would say he's been more of an anti-hero (as opposed to a reformed villain, like he was in the 80's) ever since his return to the X-men on Utopia.

@oldnightcrawler: (@captain_oblivious:) Anyone who is in opposition of the hero is a villain. I don't do shades of grey unless I'm doing laundry. Just because they don't perform consistent villainous acts does not release them from that character trait. Sooner or later they will "heel turn" on the "baby faces".

200? Loved that issue, even the JR jr. art isn't that funny? Fenris was actually pretty cool for a upstart (no pun intended) villain which they would have done more with them. The point of X-Men is acceptance of mutants in society via heroic adventure. Magnus is a separatist at best and has consistently tried (through various incarnations and bad writing) to subjugate the flat scans. He is in opposition of Xavier's dream overall. Thus X-Men who work (or rather suppose to work) towards societal integration and acceptance are at odds with Maggie-neeto (and Scottie-neeto) (Good day) Separatist values or (Bad day) kill me some flat scans.

@chasereis: How would you rank the Punisher? He has opposed Daredevil, Spider-Man, and Captain America. He is fighting for a cause he believes in using methods he supports which at times is in opposition to heroes. Wolverine could fit your definition of villain depending on what his objective his.

Because the Avengers side is full of hypocrisy and winners dictate who are the baddies and the goodies. So yeah f*ck Avengers...

Cause plot convenience