Why have the O5 not had THAT long talk with Adult Cyke yet ?

  • 82 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

So they've been in the present for 21 issues. They're now part of Adult Cyke's team. They've met the Avengers, all teams and have experienced BOTA. Young Cyke even met his older brother. And they seem like they enjoy having these long talks.

But they STILL only know one side of the whole story. There are 2 sides to this coin, and right now, the O5 apart from Warren think adult Cyclops is insane. He is to blame for everything that went wrong in their lives. So why have they not had a long talk with him yet ? Get his version of the whole story.

Why has young Jean not given adult Cyke the full brain-scan like she did on Beast ? ( Nope the thoughts she read from when they first met him were about what was on his mind at that time, not his/her full life's story from his perspective like she got from Hank). Why didn't Cyke ask his older self what really happened to his dad and Sinister ?

Having the O5 run around with just half ( and extremely biased, it's friggin Adult Beast and Wolverine's "truths" lol ) the truth when all they need to do is look right under their noses for the whole story, seems like just a lazy excuse for Bendis to keep the drama and "teen angst" flowing.

My 2 cents...

#2 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

the whole concept of the o5 has gone done hill. teen scott & teen jea. being blamed for what they havent done yet, yet iceman & warren go unscaved like their future selves didnt do anything. the fact that the o5 are following cyclops along with kitty without having a convo about avx or xavier's death. a trial against jean when it was most recently the o5 that kicked gladiators ass during avx. havok, scotts younger brother as leader of an avengers ad-hoc team allowing the o5 to just be running around without returning to the jgshl to confront wolverine or beast about it.... list goes on

#3 Posted by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

#4 Posted by phisigmatau (515 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

sit down hater

#5 Posted by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

sit down hater

This is a public forum where opinions can be freely discussed. Why do I need to sit down again when I'm making a point rather than mindlessly posting like some users do?

#6 Posted by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

#7 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@phisigmatau said:

@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

sit down hater

This is a public forum where opinions can be freely discussed. Why do I need to sit down again when I'm making a point rather than mindlessly posting like some users do?

Thanks for your 2 cents

#8 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio
@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

Lvenger, we've hashed this out in the past AT LENGTH, but I'm feeling antsy, so at the risk of opening old wounds and taking yet another sound thrashing, let me ask how he's a 'd***, a hypocrite, a terrorist, and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong'?

#9 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

ppl still mad cause cyclops did the damn thing. he stepped up to ensure the survival of his race & yup there were casualties but hell noone is coming for ironman over cival war or the illuminati for starting the skrull wars. i hear no magneto bashes or wolverine bashers but everyone madd at scott for overcoming & challenging the avenger which the x-men should not have lost too

#10 Posted by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonsmith said:
@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

Lvenger, we've hashed this out in the past AT LENGTH, but I'm feeling antsy, so at the risk of opening old wounds and taking yet another sound thrashing, let me ask how he's a 'd***, a hypocrite, a terrorist, and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong'?

Oh do we have to do this again? Can a guy not make a simple comment on these boards anymore? I don't think the OP wants another Scott Summers flame war on here.

(Sigh) Fine, committing adultery nearly twice (he kind of did end things with Madelyn just to get back with Jean), forming a kill squad with a child on the team, setting up a mutant only island to lord things over from there, refusing to be reasonable at the start of AvX (Cap played a role too but that was down to bad writing. Cyclops has been d***ish for a while now), not regretting his actions during AvX and saying he'd do them again and proclaiming himself up as the number one authority on mutant rights with his terrorist activities doesn't make Scott a really terrible and dislikeable character?

#11 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@jonsmith said:
@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

Lvenger, we've hashed this out in the past AT LENGTH, but I'm feeling antsy, so at the risk of opening old wounds and taking yet another sound thrashing, let me ask how he's a 'd***, a hypocrite, a terrorist, and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong'?

Oh do we have to do this again? Can a guy not make a simple comment on these boards anymore? I don't think the OP wants another Scott Summers flame war on here.

(Sigh) Fine, committing adultery nearly twice (he kind of did end things with Madelyn just to get back with Jean), forming a kill squad with a child on the team, setting up a mutant only island to lord things over from there, refusing to be reasonable at the start of AvX (Cap played a role too but that was down to bad writing. Cyclops has been d***ish for a while now), not regretting his actions during AvX and saying he'd do them again and proclaiming himself up as the number one authority on mutant rights with his terrorist activities doesn't make Scott a really terrible and dislikeable character?

Aaaaaand here we go again !

#12 Edited by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: Posting that picture doesn't make up for all the wrong decisions and horrible methods Cyclops uses nowadays. He's fallen from the leader he once was into a smug, self righteous anarchist who damages the cause for mutant rights.

#13 Posted by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

ppl still mad cause cyclops did the damn thing. he stepped up to ensure the survival of his race & yup there were casualties but hell noone is coming for ironman over cival war or the illuminati for starting the skrull wars. i hear no magneto bashes or wolverine bashers but everyone madd at scott for overcoming & challenging the avenger which the x-men should not have lost too

Cyclops WON AvX

#14 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@avenger85: Posting that picture doesn't make up for all the wrong decisions and horrible methods Cyclops uses nowadays. He's fallen from the leader he once was into a smug, self righteous anarchist who damages the cause for mutant rights.

In your opinion.

#15 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Oh do we have to do this again? Can a guy not make a simple comment on these boards anymore? I don't think the OP wants another Scott Summers flame war on here.

(Sigh) Fine, committing adultery nearly twice (he kind of did end things with Madelyn just to get back with Jean), forming a kill squad with a child on the team, setting up a mutant only island to lord things over from there, refusing to be reasonable at the start of AvX (Cap played a role too but that was down to bad writing. Cyclops has been d***ish for a while now), not regretting his actions during AvX and saying he'd do them again and proclaiming himself up as the number one authority on mutant rights with his terrorist activities doesn't make Scott a really terrible and dislikeable character?

Well, leaving AvX alone since our mutual agreement of it being awful writing, and I'll concede the adultery as being a d*** move...

Actually, y'know what? I just thought through all my arguments against your other accusations, and we've gone over them before: Scott doing what he had to to protect his species from extinction, that being a responsibility no other hero has ever had to bare (short of maybe Black Bolt, and he decided to forcibly mutate humanity as his way of protection)... Anyway. We've gone over it. You won't budge. I won't budge. So I'll drop it.

But really, dude, you called a character, and I KNOW I'm repeating myself here, a 'd***, a hypocrite, a terrorist' etc. I recognize it's your opinion, and this is an open forum where anyone (except overzealous Storm fans and trolls) can post said opinion, but you make a statement like that, no matter how clear cut you think it is? Especially about a character as... controversial... as Cyclops, with people either seeing it your way or mine with very little middleground?

Did you really expect to just drop that bombshell and saunter off into the sunset with nary an explanation requested?

#16 Posted by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@avenger85: Posting that picture doesn't make up for all the wrong decisions and horrible methods Cyclops uses nowadays. He's fallen from the leader he once was into a smug, self righteous anarchist who damages the cause for mutant rights.

In your opinion.

Why would I say otherwise? Though his actions are pretty clear in showing what kind of character he's become.

#17 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@avenger85 said:

@lvenger said:

@avenger85: Posting that picture doesn't make up for all the wrong decisions and horrible methods Cyclops uses nowadays. He's fallen from the leader he once was into a smug, self righteous anarchist who damages the cause for mutant rights.

In your opinion.

Why would I say otherwise? Though his actions are pretty clear in showing what kind of character he's become.

Yes, In your opinion. Not in mine.

And I guess you have not been reading UXM.

#18 Edited by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: he won in terms of purpose but as a team the x-men should have thrashed the avengers even before the phoenix five yet the super weapons (xavier & legion) remained off the field till the end & the other super weapons got depowered/weakend or otherwise removed prior to the build up of avx

#19 Posted by Wolverine08 (41190 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL! Cyclops isn't getting much love!

#20 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@jonsmith said:
@lvenger said:

Why do we need adult Cyclops' side? He's a d***, a hypocrite, a terrorist and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong. That's all the example young Cyclops needs not to be like my most hated comic book character in the comic book medium.

Lvenger, we've hashed this out in the past AT LENGTH, but I'm feeling antsy, so at the risk of opening old wounds and taking yet another sound thrashing, let me ask how he's a 'd***, a hypocrite, a terrorist, and the worst example of how the utilitarian principle can go very wrong'?

Oh do we have to do this again? Can a guy not make a simple comment on these boards anymore? I don't think the OP wants another Scott Summers flame war on here.

(Sigh) Fine, committing adultery nearly twice (he kind of did end things with Madelyn just to get back with Jean), forming a kill squad with a child on the team, setting up a mutant only island to lord things over from there, refusing to be reasonable at the start of AvX (Cap played a role too but that was down to bad writing. Cyclops has been d***ish for a while now), not regretting his actions during AvX and saying he'd do them again and proclaiming himself up as the number one authority on mutant rights with his terrorist activities doesn't make Scott a really terrible and dislikeable character?

instead of arguing against your points (well except the utopia thing because well he just wanted to protect the 200 mutants left alive because it would be incredibly easy to kill off 200 mutants) ill just show that the characters on the side that you follow have the same flaws.

lets look at wolverine: im sure wolverine has committed adultery and given his past he couldve even raped people, cyclops squad may have had a child on the team but wolverine formed a killed squad that killed children, ill sit the avx debate out bc i think cap was way more at fault (i.e bringing an entire army to a guy who normally would've have had a simple conversation) but is bad writing, wolverine has way more blood on his hands than scott but instead he acts all high and mighty to anyone that kills (so he is a hypocrate), and he was willing to let the future xmen do more harm in bota just because he didnt want cyclops to help. There's plenty more but i think thats enough for now.

Let's look at iron man. He caused the whole civil war and killed countless people all because he thought his way was best and no one blames him at all. He started the illuminati which led to the skrull stuff. he builds a bunch of killer weapons then gets mad if others use his design to do what he designed them for.

Scarlet witch: almost made an entire species go extinct. yeah she wasnt in her right mind but again neither was scott.

Jean grey: killed billions while possessed by phoenix= hero scott kills one while possessed by phoenix=terrorist, evil, d**K

Phantomex: kills people for money and fun= fit to teach at jgs cyclops: killed one guy who was trying to kill him while possessed by an evil cosmic being= not fit to live on this earth

Namor: kills people, causes wars, and is a total d**k but thats okay because he's a different species. Cyclops: had an entire army attack his home and people so he fought back. thats wrong because it is

#21 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, would really appreciate it if we could avoid the Cyclops was right flame wars in this thread. I can make another thread for that if you want lol.

The question in this thread is just as important as wether Cyke was right or wrong. Why haven't the O5 done their damn job and tried to TALK some sense into the man they believe has gone insane ?

Why have they not had the hear-to-heart conversation with adult Cyke where they ( and most importantly young Scott and Jean ) realise what he has gone through all these years and why he did what he did.

#22 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: i think young cyc and current cyc need a team up story

#23 Posted by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: i think young cyc and current cyc need a team up story

I think both young Jean and Cyke need to spend some time with Adult Cyke, Rachel and Cable. But as it's being written by Bendis, this will never happen. We'll only get more "edginess", teen-angst and drama instead of a well fleshed-out story.

#24 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigtewell said:

@avenger85: i think young cyc and current cyc need a team up story

I think both young Jean and Cyke need to spend some time with Adult Cyke, Rachel and Cable. But as it's being written by Bendis, this will never happen. We'll only get more "edginess", teen-angst and drama instead of a well fleshed-out story.

i think bendis is capable of doing that. its just that it feels like its taking forever when his books come out so frequently. But really in the past 3 issues of uncanny we had one team member explored (which people have been asking for), and inh tie in, and we had a lead in for magnetos book so he hasnt had time in uxm. now for uncanny he couldnt just have the team switch sides without showing them in action. so im sure after this battle they will have the talk

#25 Posted by Koays (1465 posts) - - Show Bio

Really the conversation should've been had in the first issue after BoTA. Hell even Kitty should've had a conversation to better explain her switching sides. But I think they needed to have it feel like something was happening other then the aforementioned "teen angst". And any conversation with Cyclops is going to lead to more of that from all the characters, Cyclops and Jean especially, and it needs to have lasting input, so better to have a big actiony crossover like Trial now so that any real revelations aren't interrupted.

#26 Posted by joshmightbe (24878 posts) - - Show Bio

@xspectre28 said:

ppl still mad cause cyclops did the damn thing. he stepped up to ensure the survival of his race & yup there were casualties but hell noone is coming for ironman over cival war or the illuminati for starting the skrull wars. i hear no magneto bashes or wolverine bashers but everyone madd at scott for overcoming & challenging the avenger which the x-men should not have lost too

Cyclops WON AvX

Nobody won AVX, it was an awful, mishandled story, no one behaved in character. Seriously, it had Cap just being Okay with concentration camps, what the f**k was that? It was like the whole staff of Marvel forgot everything about their characters and just trumped crap up to justify explosions.

#27 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: it was to boost avenger sells & fans. had the x-men movies done better then the avenger movie & tie ins the x-men would have been the victors

#28 Posted by joshmightbe (24878 posts) - - Show Bio

@xspectre28: Doesn't matter it was still an awful, poorly written mess regardless of who won.

#29 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11376 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@avenger85 said:

@lvenger said:

@avenger85: Posting that picture doesn't make up for all the wrong decisions and horrible methods Cyclops uses nowadays. He's fallen from the leader he once was into a smug, self righteous anarchist who damages the cause for mutant rights.

In your opinion.

Why would I say otherwise? Though his actions are pretty clear in showing what kind of character he's become.

Not trying to make this worse or anything but the only reason Cyclops is such a dick now is because of Apocalypse and The Void. He was infected with both of those.

#30 Posted by Lvenger (19358 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@arturocalakayvee: Is there any proof of The Void influencing Scott?

Actually there is none and it has not influenced him as he locked it up real tight within a box in a room inside his mind lol

#32 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: shhhh we are supposed to forget about that as well. we are suppose to act like neither happened & just blame scott but u are right, scott hasnt been the same since "the twelve" incident ppl just hate that cyclops stepped up & became that dude a capible leader. just look at HoM... who did the heroes look to for leadership.... Cyclops

#33 Posted by XsPectre28 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: that maybe true but ill ask again who knows what effect the phoenix force had on that "locked room" that the void was in.... scotts mind was already shown to be weaker then the phoenix influence

#34 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (11376 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@arturocalakayvee: Is there any proof of The Void influencing Scott?

Actually there is none and it has not influenced him as he locked it up real tight within a box in a room inside his mind lol

Whether or not The Void has influenced him, and I don't have an honest answer as to whether it has or hasn't, Apocalypse is enough of an influence in my opinion. That dude is a real douche!

#35 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85 said:

@lvenger said:

@arturocalakayvee: Is there any proof of The Void influencing Scott?

Actually there is none and it has not influenced him as he locked it up real tight within a box in a room inside his mind lol

Whether or not The Void has influenced him, and I don't have an honest answer as to whether it has or hasn't, Apocalypse is enough of an influence in my opinion. That dude is a real douche!

Yes, In my opinion, if there is ONE event in X-Men that needs retconning, it's the Apocalypse-possession and the "12" story. That event completely messed up Cyke's head.

#36 Posted by HAWK2916 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, its hard to expect someone with "venger" in their screen name to be objective about Cyclops. i wouldn't argue with him, you'll never convince him.

In discussing the OP's thought/question... I think the whole idea of the O5 is a terrible premise. In addition I think lazy and overall bad writing and concept is part of the reason this hasn't happened. But if I can get past all that and pretend here: I would say that it boils down to the fact that it just so happened that Cyclops wasn't so much pushing that they needed to go back to their own time versus the others at the JGS and so since his current philosophy agreed with what they wanted to do... then they can excuse his actions and sweep any misconceptions or reservations under the rug.

I men let's face it who doesn't enjoy listening to someone tell them what they want to hear right. It's the reason people pick certain religions, athletes and movie stars pick certain agents, why people vote for certain candidates. People can justify anything that is done or anyone who will do certain things as long as it aligns with their wishes and interest. The government fights wars because of this and gets in bed with criminals for the same thing.

This just further shows how petty and arbitrary even the O5, which was supposed to be the clean pure slate, are being portrayed. That even the best will compromise their morals and integrity if you tell them what they want to hear or agree with their POV. Prostitution in it's basic form. lol. I guess the day and age of reality tv in which we live, where creating drama and constant fighting between everyone from hillbillies to the super-rich housewives has leaked over into the comic medium and some writers and editors are influenced to believe that good well researched and well developed writing is no longer necessary. It's no longer "sex sells" but nowadays "drama sells".

#37 Edited by LordMordor (143 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott has flaws...he got with Maddie because she reminded him of Jean (plus sinister influence), he left to find Jean when she returned, but then tried to go back because he knew he had a wife+child. While he was recovering from Apoc influence Jean and him were drifting, Emma comes and actually does help him with his issues (he allows the psychic affair but never lets it get physical). While she was dying in his arms Jean flat out said that until that moment he hadn't been looking alive, and then gives him the psychic push to continue on living with Emma rather than grieve over her the rest of his life.

While Leading the X-men after M-day he does literally anything he can to keep his species alive. Giving them a place they can stay free of persecution where they can all protect each other. It was not just so he could lord over it and the mutants, and that was during Dark Reign when the government (Osborn) ABSOLUTELY was out to get them. People are free to leave whenever they wish though, but they all stay because Cyclops is offering a home, and protection.

AvX hit both Cap and Cyclops with the stupid and unreasonable stick...Cap shows up with a Helicarrier full of avengers and is going to Wolverine for advice knowing FULL well the history and animosity between the two. Scott never considers finding a way for Hope to meet the phoenix away from Earth...but Cap and Wolverine are intent on never letting her and the phoenix meet at all. Logan...the guy who is all "protect the children" actually sneaks in during the fighting to try an assassinate Hope. At the end of it all...Scott sees that the mutant species is being restarted, X-genes are re-activating and new mutants are being born. He regrets Xavier, but seeing that the final outcome is the survival of the species, he admits he would do it all over again.

Even now...when he is a supposed "terrorist" what has he done? He has made it clear that the revolution is NOT about mutant superiority. So far all he has done is save some mutants from being persecuted and has started a school to train them so they can defend themselves and others. Only other thing he has done is show up at a rally supporting mutant rights to thank the humans that have their back.

on to the ACTUAL topic...since these "insane terrorist vs self-sacrificing hero" topics tend to derail things...

They haven't had that long talk with Adult Cyclops yet because until recently there hasn't been a really good opportunity. They arrived at the CXS 4 issues ago. First issue they were settling in, then right after resting up there was a mutant incident involving X-23. The following 2 issues were them caring for her and then going out to find the purifiers. Also there is the fact that they kind of know already that Scott isn't a "bad guy". He helped them when no one else would during BOTA, they already know he only killed the professor due to phoenix influence, and they have seen that he isn't running a mutant supremacy group like Magneto used to. They may disagree with his idea of fighting back against the government in a revolution....but they don't think he is out to get them or the world, otherwise they wouldn't be staying with him. The talk about the details of why he is doing what he is doing can wait. Though I do agree that I would love to see a few pages of them and adult Scott.

#39 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott has flaws...he got with Maddie because she reminded him of Jean (plus sinister influence), he left to find Jean when she returned, but then tried to go back because he knew he had a wife+child. While he was recovering from Apoc influence Jean and him were drifting, Emma comes and actually does help him with his issues (he allows the psychic affair but never lets it get physical). While she was dying in his arms Jean flat out said that until that moment he hadn't been looking alive, and then gives him the psychic push to continue on living with Emma rather than grieve over her the rest of his life.

While Leading the X-men after M-day he does literally anything he can to keep his species alive. Giving them a place they can stay free of persecution where they can all protect each other. It was not just so he could lord over it and the mutants, and that was during Dark Reign when the government (Osborn) ABSOLUTELY was out to get them. People are free to leave whenever they wish though, but they all stay because Cyclops is offering a home, and protection.

AvX hit both Cap and Cyclops with the stupid and unreasonable stick...Cap shows up with a Helicarrier full of avengers and is going to Wolverine for advice knowing FULL well the history and animosity between the two. Scott never considers finding a way for Hope to meet the phoenix away from Earth...but Cap and Wolverine are intent on never letting her and the phoenix meet at all. Logan...the guy who is all "protect the children" actually sneaks in during the fighting to try an assassinate Hope. At the end of it all...Scott sees that the mutant species is being restarted, X-genes are re-activating and new mutants are being born. He regrets Xavier, but seeing that the final outcome is the survival of the species, he admits he would do it all over again.

Even now...when he is a supposed "terrorist" what has he done? He has made it clear that the revolution is NOT about mutant superiority. So far all he has done is save some mutants from being persecuted and has started a school to train them so they can defend themselves and others. Only other thing he has done is show up at a rally supporting mutant rights to thank the humans that have their back.

on to the ACTUAL topic...since these "insane terrorist vs self-sacrificing hero" topics tend to derail things...

They haven't had that long talk with Adult Cyclops yet because until recently there hasn't been a really good opportunity. They arrived at the CXS 4 issues ago. First issue they were settling in, then right after resting up there was a mutant incident involving X-23. The following 2 issues were them caring for her and then going out to find the purifiers. Also there is the fact that they kind of know already that Scott isn't a "bad guy". He helped them when no one else would during BOTA, they already know he only killed the professor due to phoenix influence, and they have seen that he isn't running a mutant supremacy group like Magneto used to. They may disagree with his idea of fighting back against the government in a revolution....but they don't think he is out to get them or the world, otherwise they wouldn't be staying with him. The talk about the details of why he is doing what he is doing can wait. Though I do agree that I would love to see a few pages of them and adult Scott.

good points

#40 Posted by Oscars94 (2475 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: There's many ways to look at his situation.

#41 Edited by HAWK2916 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenger85: sorry lol. I wasnt referring to you with that first statement.

#42 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916: lol it's cool. I figured that out so I edited my post

#43 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

instead of arguing against your points (well except the utopia thing because well he just wanted to protect the 200 mutants left alive because it would be incredibly easy to kill off 200 mutants) ill just show that the characters on the side that you follow have the same flaws.

lets look at wolverine: im sure wolverine has committed adultery and given his past he couldve even raped people,

Y'know, I'm on the pro-Cyclops side of this debate, but do you really think Wolverine is the kind of dude who'd rape or cheat on a girl? He never struck me as that kind of guy. That semblance of honor he effects would lead me to think as raping being a line he won't cross, and he seems straightforward enough that if he'd prefer to be with another girl, he'd tell the girl he's with first.

... Though that would require his girlfriends to live longer than thirty seconds past knowing him, so I guess it never really came up.

#44 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, would really appreciate it if we could avoid the Cyclops was right flame wars in this thread. I can make another thread for that if you want lol.

The question in this thread is just as important as wether Cyke was right or wrong. Why haven't the O5 done their damn job and tried to TALK some sense into the man they believe has gone insane ?

Why have they not had the hear-to-heart conversation with adult Cyke where they ( and most importantly young Scott and Jean ) realise what he has gone through all these years and why he did what he did.

There dragging it out so they can save those stories for another day

#45 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordmordor said:

Scott has flaws...he got with Maddie because she reminded him of Jean (plus sinister influence), he left to find Jean when she returned, but then tried to go back because he knew he had a wife+child. While he was recovering from Apoc influence Jean and him were drifting, Emma comes and actually does help him with his issues (he allows the psychic affair but never lets it get physical). While she was dying in his arms Jean flat out said that until that moment he hadn't been looking alive, and then gives him the psychic push to continue on living with Emma rather than grieve over her the rest of his life.

While Leading the X-men after M-day he does literally anything he can to keep his species alive. Giving them a place they can stay free of persecution where they can all protect each other. It was not just so he could lord over it and the mutants, and that was during Dark Reign when the government (Osborn) ABSOLUTELY was out to get them. People are free to leave whenever they wish though, but they all stay because Cyclops is offering a home, and protection.

AvX hit both Cap and Cyclops with the stupid and unreasonable stick...Cap shows up with a Helicarrier full of avengers and is going to Wolverine for advice knowing FULL well the history and animosity between the two. Scott never considers finding a way for Hope to meet the phoenix away from Earth...but Cap and Wolverine are intent on never letting her and the phoenix meet at all. Logan...the guy who is all "protect the children" actually sneaks in during the fighting to try an assassinate Hope. At the end of it all...Scott sees that the mutant species is being restarted, X-genes are re-activating and new mutants are being born. He regrets Xavier, but seeing that the final outcome is the survival of the species, he admits he would do it all over again.

Even now...when he is a supposed "terrorist" what has he done? He has made it clear that the revolution is NOT about mutant superiority. So far all he has done is save some mutants from being persecuted and has started a school to train them so they can defend themselves and others. Only other thing he has done is show up at a rally supporting mutant rights to thank the humans that have their back.

on to the ACTUAL topic...since these "insane terrorist vs self-sacrificing hero" topics tend to derail things...

They haven't had that long talk with Adult Cyclops yet because until recently there hasn't been a really good opportunity. They arrived at the CXS 4 issues ago. First issue they were settling in, then right after resting up there was a mutant incident involving X-23. The following 2 issues were them caring for her and then going out to find the purifiers. Also there is the fact that they kind of know already that Scott isn't a "bad guy". He helped them when no one else would during BOTA, they already know he only killed the professor due to phoenix influence, and they have seen that he isn't running a mutant supremacy group like Magneto used to. They may disagree with his idea of fighting back against the government in a revolution....but they don't think he is out to get them or the world, otherwise they wouldn't be staying with him. The talk about the details of why he is doing what he is doing can wait. Though I do agree that I would love to see a few pages of them and adult Scott.

good points

Oh i heard on Bendis Tumblr that he is building something up in Uncanny x-men 18

#46 Edited by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@avenger85 said:

@lordmordor said:

Scott has flaws...he got with Maddie because she reminded him of Jean (plus sinister influence), he left to find Jean when she returned, but then tried to go back because he knew he had a wife+child. While he was recovering from Apoc influence Jean and him were drifting, Emma comes and actually does help him with his issues (he allows the psychic affair but never lets it get physical). While she was dying in his arms Jean flat out said that until that moment he hadn't been looking alive, and then gives him the psychic push to continue on living with Emma rather than grieve over her the rest of his life.

While Leading the X-men after M-day he does literally anything he can to keep his species alive. Giving them a place they can stay free of persecution where they can all protect each other. It was not just so he could lord over it and the mutants, and that was during Dark Reign when the government (Osborn) ABSOLUTELY was out to get them. People are free to leave whenever they wish though, but they all stay because Cyclops is offering a home, and protection.

AvX hit both Cap and Cyclops with the stupid and unreasonable stick...Cap shows up with a Helicarrier full of avengers and is going to Wolverine for advice knowing FULL well the history and animosity between the two. Scott never considers finding a way for Hope to meet the phoenix away from Earth...but Cap and Wolverine are intent on never letting her and the phoenix meet at all. Logan...the guy who is all "protect the children" actually sneaks in during the fighting to try an assassinate Hope. At the end of it all...Scott sees that the mutant species is being restarted, X-genes are re-activating and new mutants are being born. He regrets Xavier, but seeing that the final outcome is the survival of the species, he admits he would do it all over again.

Even now...when he is a supposed "terrorist" what has he done? He has made it clear that the revolution is NOT about mutant superiority. So far all he has done is save some mutants from being persecuted and has started a school to train them so they can defend themselves and others. Only other thing he has done is show up at a rally supporting mutant rights to thank the humans that have their back.

on to the ACTUAL topic...since these "insane terrorist vs self-sacrificing hero" topics tend to derail things...

They haven't had that long talk with Adult Cyclops yet because until recently there hasn't been a really good opportunity. They arrived at the CXS 4 issues ago. First issue they were settling in, then right after resting up there was a mutant incident involving X-23. The following 2 issues were them caring for her and then going out to find the purifiers. Also there is the fact that they kind of know already that Scott isn't a "bad guy". He helped them when no one else would during BOTA, they already know he only killed the professor due to phoenix influence, and they have seen that he isn't running a mutant supremacy group like Magneto used to. They may disagree with his idea of fighting back against the government in a revolution....but they don't think he is out to get them or the world, otherwise they wouldn't be staying with him. The talk about the details of why he is doing what he is doing can wait. Though I do agree that I would love to see a few pages of them and adult Scott.

good points

Oh i heard on Bendis Tumblr that he is building something up in Uncanny x-men 18

He's been building up for the total Retcon/"One More Day" and end of the Scott/Jean thing and major changes to the whole of X-Men history. We will see it by the time the sham trial is over.

#47 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@avenger85 said:

@lordmordor said:

Scott has flaws...he got with Maddie because she reminded him of Jean (plus sinister influence), he left to find Jean when she returned, but then tried to go back because he knew he had a wife+child. While he was recovering from Apoc influence Jean and him were drifting, Emma comes and actually does help him with his issues (he allows the psychic affair but never lets it get physical). While she was dying in his arms Jean flat out said that until that moment he hadn't been looking alive, and then gives him the psychic push to continue on living with Emma rather than grieve over her the rest of his life.

While Leading the X-men after M-day he does literally anything he can to keep his species alive. Giving them a place they can stay free of persecution where they can all protect each other. It was not just so he could lord over it and the mutants, and that was during Dark Reign when the government (Osborn) ABSOLUTELY was out to get them. People are free to leave whenever they wish though, but they all stay because Cyclops is offering a home, and protection.

AvX hit both Cap and Cyclops with the stupid and unreasonable stick...Cap shows up with a Helicarrier full of avengers and is going to Wolverine for advice knowing FULL well the history and animosity between the two. Scott never considers finding a way for Hope to meet the phoenix away from Earth...but Cap and Wolverine are intent on never letting her and the phoenix meet at all. Logan...the guy who is all "protect the children" actually sneaks in during the fighting to try an assassinate Hope. At the end of it all...Scott sees that the mutant species is being restarted, X-genes are re-activating and new mutants are being born. He regrets Xavier, but seeing that the final outcome is the survival of the species, he admits he would do it all over again.

Even now...when he is a supposed "terrorist" what has he done? He has made it clear that the revolution is NOT about mutant superiority. So far all he has done is save some mutants from being persecuted and has started a school to train them so they can defend themselves and others. Only other thing he has done is show up at a rally supporting mutant rights to thank the humans that have their back.

on to the ACTUAL topic...since these "insane terrorist vs self-sacrificing hero" topics tend to derail things...

They haven't had that long talk with Adult Cyclops yet because until recently there hasn't been a really good opportunity. They arrived at the CXS 4 issues ago. First issue they were settling in, then right after resting up there was a mutant incident involving X-23. The following 2 issues were them caring for her and then going out to find the purifiers. Also there is the fact that they kind of know already that Scott isn't a "bad guy". He helped them when no one else would during BOTA, they already know he only killed the professor due to phoenix influence, and they have seen that he isn't running a mutant supremacy group like Magneto used to. They may disagree with his idea of fighting back against the government in a revolution....but they don't think he is out to get them or the world, otherwise they wouldn't be staying with him. The talk about the details of why he is doing what he is doing can wait. Though I do agree that I would love to see a few pages of them and adult Scott.

good points

Oh i heard on Bendis Tumblr that he is building something up in Uncanny x-men 18

He's been building up for the total Retcon/"One More Day" and end of the Scott/Jean thing and major changes to the whole of X-Men history. We will see it by the time the sham trial is over.

Yeah plus all-new x-men 23 the solict says a ending so shocking.......You have to see it to believe it. lol

#48 Posted by phisigmatau (515 posts) - - Show Bio

@hawk2916 said:

Guys, its hard to expect someone with "venger" in their screen name to be objective about Cyclops. i wouldn't argue with him, you'll never convince him.

In discussing the OP's thought/question... I think the whole idea of the O5 is a terrible premise. In addition I think lazy and overall bad writing and concept is part of the reason this hasn't happened.

I agree with all of this 100%

thats whhy (in reference to vengerguy - not venger85 -) i just gave him a one liner, but he's convinced in his own mind.

#49 Posted by Avenger85 (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

BTW after reading ANXM 22 they REALLY need to have that conversation with Adult Cyke ASAP.

#50 Posted by CheeseSticks (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops was right. Deal with it.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.