@PhoenixoftheTides said:
@Skaddix said:
@samuel_larson_10 said:
both, together, Storm for the tactical decisions and beast for the diplomatic issues, they'd be an awesome team. But honestly If I had to choose, I'd pick hank, he's one of the original 5 x men, ice man, jean, angel, they are all unfit to lead. Cyclops is a good leader but he's been making some bad decisions as of late
Yeah I don't see the point of special deference to the orginal 5. Sure they were first but before ANAD the X-men were going nowhere fast.
For me, the difference is that the original team weren't action heroes to the point the ANAD were, and they often favored a more diplomatic approach. I give deference to Scott, Jean and Hank moreso than Warren and Bobby because they've lead a team, been co-leaders on other occasions and been team members before, so each is pretty well suited in a Professor X-type position having experienced being a leader as well as taking orders in a variety of roles outside of combat. As I said earlier, Storm is good for tactical leadership, but her record of setting a goal for the school isn't good - she had her reasons, but one of the marks against her was needing to abandon the students at the Mansion because enemies knew where the X-Men were. And when Charles had to choose a replacement to protect the school and his vision, he chose Magneto, partially because he needed someone with a vision larger than heroics to achieve his dream. If I had to put it another way, it's that Storm lacks vision because she is really focused on herself and more limited tasks, such as missions or combat training, whereas the leader of the school in a Professor X-type position should have other goals and interests - Beast is not only interested in science, but also education, diplomacy and team building. It is due to these factors that I think make him best suited to be a Professor X-type leader precisely because he is not limited to a warrior ethos. Even in New X-Men, when instructors were needed at the School, Emma, Jean and Hank were among them because their powers, experiences and educational background each made them a fit teacher. Hank just brings more to the table; it's like seeing a resume punctuated by impressive educational credentials, experience, interests, achievements and indicators of a well-developed personality and comparing it to another that has some experience but no other achievements outside of a certain role. It is like comparing the background of a professor (who actually has a few PhD's) to a bright but undeveloped student/graduate - the professor is just going to seem more fit to lead an educational/ethical institution like Prof.X's school while the graduate may be qualified to teach or assist in teaching a class or two. Bottom line: If you want the X-Men to be about achieving peace through all possible means, Beast seems to be the best leader. If you want the X-Men to be about combat effectiveness, Storm would be one of a few viable options.
I'd argue that the X-Men are in trouble now because their current leaders only present the most popular, combat effective and appealing options, and not the most logical choice. You can criticize Cyclops, but at the end of the day, he is still running the team as if it is multifaceted, with educational/training, strike team, scientific/research components all merged into a larger organization. Storm, at the end of the day, still favors being free to do what she wants and hasn't really stepped up to present a multifaceted vision of how they should evolve. I think Beast has presented this vision, but he defers to Scott out of respect for his record and strategic abilities. I'd like to see what he could do with the team as the overall visionary, and I feel that Storm has already passed up her opportunities to do the same because she basically doesn't want to. Any time the call went out to be teachers, educators or administrators (the hard, intellectual work behind running the X-Men as a school, movement or organization), Storm tends to back out and let others step up, but she has served as a mediator or ambassador (ie. representative functions) before. I like both characters but I just think Beast understands what Professor X was trying to achieve moreso than Storm, and he is just deferential enough to avoid calling out the current leader unless they start crossing major ethical lines. And I still think some posters are mistaking what the OP was talking about - this role would largely be sidelined and dealing with administrative and executive level business: If Storm were to take this role, she wouldn't be leading the vast majority of combat missions as it would be irresponsible for this type of leader to place themselves in danger for minor or needless reasons. Technically, someone like a Reed Richards would be ideal for this role; not a Captain America.
That's where you're somewhat wrong, and it baffles me as to why you've decided to re-inforce your point more than three times now. Yes, the OP asked for a Professor X-esque type of leader, who sent the team on missions. There was no mention of the "School" or for that matter "It's vision". I hope you're aware that Charles only stayed on the sidlines and did not get as much attention compared to the combat units, as you described, because of one reason, he was disabled.
I suppose you're quite right in that the 05 probably did take a more diplomatic approach to most of their...antagonists, but i don't see where you're going with, because they were both members of a team as well as leaders/co-leaders, they're suited for a Professor X-esque position ? I don't understand that, it'd be appreciated if you could elaborate on that, cause (from what i'm well aware of) he has openly been a leader from the get-go and i don't re-call him openly taking orders from anyone during his glory days (even though i'll get back to this subject), he started all this (and i'd prefer to not get redirected to some First X-Men articles).
As has been pointed out from a couple other users, Beast has never been put in the "leadership" position in comparison to Professor X and Storm, and if he has, it was never really noticable. Sure, he's co-head of The Jean Grey School For Higher Learning, but he didn't think twice about getting sent off on that space mission to apprehend the Phoenix. He didn't provide much to the team other than his smarts, and even that didn't save them. His vision for the school wasn't exactly evident in this case, either, if he wanted what was best for the students and the teachers there, he would have, and could have, stayed. He is, in someways, a sideline character himself, but that doesn't mean he never gets his hands dirty when the enemy comes, he has, many times, been placed as a field operative and took that role with open arms, he's not much of a guy who watches through the computer screens telling the other team-members what to do, he likes getting up-close and personal, from what i've seen anyways, so forgive me if i'm wrong (take Secret Avengers for example, he's almost always on the field, never being put in that type of positon, or WaTX where he prominently appears, almost always on the field, too. Have not read into much of his past appearances, so i'm probably wrong on a lot of points, still.)
As much as he supposedly possesses the skills and intelligence needed to carry out such a task, he has never taken on the initiative to do so. It was Wolverine's idea to set-up the school again, not his. That never even came to his mind, even though he's Professor Xavier Vol.2 as you think him so much to be.
Magneto's not much of a good example, yeah, he took care of the New Mutants, but how long did that last ? As soon as the going got tough, he left them. Something a Professor X-esque type visionary should not be doing, he did have a vision, but left it as soon as something went awry, and, in the end, went back to his villianous ways, so, not a good example.
The fact that Storm is a Queen, does at least give her some leewway, in that she doesn't always need to be with the X-Men, when the times were tough (HoM, Messiah CompleX, etc, etc.) it'd be understandable for her to not be there, though, now, you could definitely argue against all of that. It's not, completley, that she cares more about herself and is solely confined to limited tasks as a leader, but it's that she has(d) other priorities to attend to, which should be understandable. But i do somewhat agree with the "limited tasks" aspect of the character, she admitted herself that making long-term choices and the like weren't exactly her strong points, which were true, but some of the choices that she did make (faking their deaths to not draw any attention to the X-Men and the ones related to them, taking her own squad of X-Men which included Beast, to search for Destinies Diaries, creating the XSE while doing so) actually turned out for the best.
Even currently, she's dealing with matters that require assistance from the likes of Beast and such, but, because of the intricacies that follow, she's choosing not to. With the situation, she's not delving head-on because of her combat prowess, she's taking a good look at it, analysing it, seeing where her and her team should act and should not, then making her way to strike (i'm talking about Blank Generation, Brian Wood's X-Men #30 -#32.), to counteract the fact that you think she's solely a combat leader and not one to take a breather from things and take a look at it diplomatically, well, she's doing exactly that. She's not trying to overpower anything in this instance, she's just doing what Xavier would do (this was even done in Xenogenesis). Truthfully speaking.
Personally, i think the person who you're trying to describe is Scott Summers. He entirely fits that bill more than any other X-Leader and that is a definite given.
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