So what X-Men do you think will be on the Astonishing Avengers?

Avengers & X-Men: AXIS 6

ACT II: INVERSION

• The Axis of Evil have won, who is left to stop them?

• Rogue and Nightcrawler vs Mystique!

• Thor vs Loki!

• Magneto and Quicksilver vs The Scarlet Witch!

• This is it, the face of the new world disorder--The Astonishing Avengers are formed!

Personally I think Cyclops might actually lead it.

You're joking right? He shouldn't be on the Avengers team let alone lead one. At least not until he gets his head out of his @ss and admits he's part of the problem.

If you read through all of the solicit for Axis the entire story is about weather or not the Avengers and X-Men can unite and it also kind of hints that all of the leaders they had before have either been taking out of commission or turned evil.

Stever Rogers is old, Iron Man is INVERTED, and in issue 2 "The all-new Captain America pays a terrible price." so I don't see the leader being Falcon either.

Them?

@koays: That's from issue 2 and the team is formed in issue 6. That is even before people get INVERTED so Sabertooth and other villains could be on the team to.

That doesn't change anything. Someone else will just have to step up. Cyclops as he is has become far too polarizing for unity and is too far gone into the us/them mentality.

@teerack: hmm idk then. if theres one good thing about this event its that it's hard to predict even with the hints, since we don't know who's turning and who's not

@dernman: Possibly. I feel like everyone that has been happening to Scott has been working towards something, and I think this could be it.

@dernman: @koays:

This is what got me thinking it could happened based off Remembers quote today.

30 Days of AXIS: Cyclops

While haunted by the death of Charles Xavier at his hands, Cyclops has remaind resolute in battling for mutant rights in the pages of UNCANNY X-MEN. His stance has evolved, but his end goal to safeguard his people has not.

AVENGERS & X-MEN: AXIS brings about the nightmares come true for all mutants, and gives Scott Summers the opportunity to back up his bluster.

"Cyclops is proven to be right in his own eyes, in his assumption that the humans will stop at nothing to wipe the mutants off of the Earth and that there will constantly be human threats," says Rick Remender. "He finds himself in a situation where most of his fears and most of his predictions are shown to be true, but at the same time has little option but to join forces with the Avengers, and to try and turn the tide. But how that alliance pays out, or plays out, will obviously be a secret."

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/comics/23218/30_days_of_axis#ixzz3E6oGGhoQ

I feel that also but this is kind of in the opposite direction.

For me that says Cyclops taking a knee like Magneto took a knee to Cyclops.

idk....i think im gonna stick with the preview team minus maybe tony.....i dont know if they'll be too many team switches and flips on a event like this, just because we need a solid group of main characters to follow

@dernman: That would be something. I can't even imagine Scott Summers taking a knee in this situation.

Have you read No More Humans?

I have, and he doesn't "take a knee" there either....he leads the team in the field and sort of co-leads with Storm when they aren't.

That said, I don't think we will see Scott join a unity squad of any kind...its to much of an opposite direction for him right now, especially since his revolution so far still hasn't moved beyond training new recruits. Bendis has some good ideas sometimes, but seriously, they can take forever to happen

@lordmordor: I wasn't the one who said he takes a knee and I wasn't saying he took a knee in No More Humans. I brought it up because Wolverine, Storm, and Havok all agreed that with such high stakes they needed to have Scott lead.

I'd imagine it's going to be the inverted version the villains. Doctor Doom, etc.

Although I do hope it consists of Nightcrawler and Colossus. They're hands down my favorite X-men currently and I'd like to see them on a major team again.

When I heard Remender was doing an event I was excited. But after seeing what its about especially with the road to Axis stuff showing Xavier appearing with half his head cut off, I'm skeptical. I mean its goign back to the weakest part of the Uncanny Avengers run. I guess grafting Xavier's brain to his own is conceivable for the Red Skull but I dont know I guess the event will play out. I have to say I'm quite tired of the heroes becoming villains, villains becoming heroes stuff. And this unity thing feels forced right now.

I actually hope that the Xmen and Avengers go back to their respective corners and stop mixing. I dont want any u xmen joining the avengers and the ones that are there should come back to the xmen. No Avengers ever come just joi the Xmen, but nobody seems to see that. I hope Astonishing Avengers is just about Avengers, lord knows they have plenty of them. Hell maybe the young Avengers or Aengers Academy kids can fill that role of looking to Astonish the world.

By the way, I actually heard somewhere that Bishop was joining, maybe this is where he comes in

He's part of what problem?

kinda hope it's this lineup

people be acting like cyclops is the only one who has done something horrible..... get over yourselves. most of marvel, especially those who have been in a leadership role has done things that were out of character but i dont hear anyone calling for their heads like they do cyclops.... cyclops haters!!

@cresshadow said:

kinda hope it's this lineup

Interesting

Havok should be leading the team.

Same here but I have a bad feeling about Havok in this event.

Neither can I. Magneto doing so is almost more believable. At least with him you could imagine him doing s just for show then make a play for leadership out from under him. Ya I read it. To be honest for something I was really looking foward to I was dissapointed. It was a good idea but thought they made bad choices.

The human/mutant thing he's now a part of the cycle of hate.

Really? Name one person on here that fits what you're saying.

@dernman: The human/mutant thing he's now a part of the cycle of hate.

In what way is this true? Before the BOTA came and wrecked the story Cyclops and his X-Men were going to rallies for mutant/human peace.

Cycle of hate exists with or without Cyclops.

Gallery

yup

In every way. Sorry but the rallies are only a small portion of the world an are hardly indicative of the majority of humans. Rallies are no always a positive thin to people. In fact they be opposite especially with who is involved an what happens there. That is not even mentioning the fact that this isn't a black and white issue. Mutants/humans are not a perfect example, metaphor, or whatever you want to call it for minorities, racism. There actually is good reason for the other side when these people are walking talking WMDs. The rallies mean nothing nor are they the only thing he did. One side acts, then other side reacts thinking they are justified, then the other side does the same and round an round. Rhetoric and puffed up shows of standing, acts of violence perceived or not perceived by either side as justifiable and bullsh!te. It's all part of the cycle. Cyclpps is polorizing and as long as he lives so far in the them vs them, mutant or human world he is part of the problem. Prof X's dream while not perfect was the closest path for true peace.and not taking part in the cycle of hate.

.

This is not Cyclops hate. Cyclops was my favorite X-Man long before people started jumping on the bandwagon post AvX and always defended him when people called him boring. I may not agree with his new direction but view him as a great presentation of natural growth in modern mainstream comics. I may not agree with Cyclops but still think he's an interesting character. This isn't hate like some user accused.

How is that a counter to what I said?

In what way does it address my point?

Where did I even slightly suggest it wouldn't continue without him?

I was under the impression that he gets brainwashed or mind controlled by Red Skull. He might have been a goo character to step up.

@dernman:

I was under the impression that he gets brainwashed or mind controlled by Red Skull. He might have been a goo character to step up.

Yah, especially after the events in Uncanny Avengers, how he and Jannet lost their daughter...it was a good set up for Alex to step up and to unite both the Avengers and X-Men in this arc.

@dernman: @humanrocket: That is what I was thinking about.

@dernman: Prof X's dream while not perfect was the closest path for true peace.and not taking part in the cycle of hate.

What actually did Professor X want? Oh yeah, them to stay isolated away from humanity and only come out when threats came out mutant or otherwise. It did nothing for peace and the hatred for mutants continued until Cassandra Nova forced them out in the open.

What exactly do you want Cyclops to do? Hide out in the JGS with everyone else? Because that has worked wonderful in the past (sarcasm).

Prof X didn't want them to stay isolated away from humanity. The time he started his work to the general public mutants were very few and at the time his team working in secret was in their best interest of the community as a whole until they had a stronger position. he also had other organizations advocacy groups that worked out in the open. What he wanted was for mutants an humans to live side by side in peace. Which is part of the reason PX was apposed to when Magneto wanted to separate mutants from humanity. Prof X efforts did a lot for mutants and humans. THat is despite the efforts of terrorists like Magneto hindering his efforts. Hell it's part of what they tried to show in AoA an why Magneto changed his views

What I want is for Cyclops not to be a polarizing an instigating those who have legit reasons to fear people with power. Stop taking a position of them vs us or those who are not with us are against us. To take a step back. Cause you know what he's doing now works and brings peace. (sarcasm)

i wasnt refering to anyone on here in particular but in overall consensus cyclops has become the new poster boy of evil in the eyes of most people because of AvX but as i stated there are others (Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Man, Xavier, Magneto, Beast, Scarlet witch, Namor...) who have done things on par to what Scott did or worse.with that being said i think its kind of hypocritical that cyclops cant be on an avengers team because of his past but many of the avengers (Past & Present along with most of the X-men: Past & Present, as well as the Current Uncanny Avengers were for the majority either: A) a killer, B) a villain, C) manipulated to do evil, or D) all of the above. i didnt come on this post and directly said that you and any of the other people in here were cyclops haters i was stating how i felt overall of the situation so as far as finding someone to fit what i was saying i named them already in my post. clearly i stated in my original post "In Marvel" refering to the comic characters not people in the post, Thanks

Is it the detractors fault or is it partly the fault of those who are bending over backwards defending Cyclops. Twisting the truth to make him the good guy, who not doing anything wrong, that he's right and it's the other characters that are wrong.

Wolverine and Namor are not heroes. Namor has always bordered on hero/villain. There is no pretending there. Wolverine is an anti hero and most people accept that when they tried to make him one ruined his character. Wolverine was never suppose to take the position of the good guy and never had the influence that Scott did untill recently. Yet he never pulls people into that world he keeps separate which he gets called out on.

Xavier was a good guy until they character assassinated him and most people recognize those wrong doing. Nobody is giving him a pass because Prof X owned up to it to everyone NOT keep going down a bad road like Cyclop. Beast is getting his own sh!te now.

Magneto is a terrorist, Magneto never was a good guy. He gets it worse than Cyke as he should. There is no double standard there.

WHat has Cap one exactly that puts him in the same boat? Scarlet Witch A was crazy, and has dome nothing since but try to make up for what she has done. The hypocrisy isn't there like you're saying it is. Maybe minor in certain light but not equal. THe closest is SW and to a lesser extent WOlverine but I explained the difference.

Scott can't be and it's not hypocritical because he still taking the position he has. Say what you want but the current mutant members are not stuck in a position of them vs us. THey take one of both mutants and humans are just people against the bad. Cyclops can't be on the Avengers NOT just because of his past. He can't be in the Avengers because his stance hasn't changed really and that he has done nothing to separate himself from it. If anything he's using it. Thats the difference which he brings on himself an it's not just Haters.

Because you blame his actions and his current figure for this cycle? Ar least it sounds like this.

That makes no sense for you to come to that conclusion. I said his actions and position he has taken has made him a part of the cycle.

THere is nothing there that infers anything more than that. You're taking a huge leap from that to being the cycle itself. Regardless though he is a part of it which makes him part of the problem. So it doesn't absolve him if it continues without him. The point is to be part of the solution to end the cycle or at least not make it stronger by taking part.

@dernman:

So you blame him partially, which means you still do, just incompletely. And what I say that problem exists no matter what, it's like to you the only way is the conventional one and it proved to end bad for muties, so sorry for not having a good grasp of your point.

So you blame him partially, which means you still do, just incompletely.

If you're part of the cycle then yes you are to blame for your part in it. There is no getting around it

And what I say that problem exists no matter what,

It doesn't matter, What part of this are you not getting? If you're actively taking part a cycle of hate then you're doing bad. It existing with or without you does not absolve him of his actions and his part of the cycle. As long as he takes part he will be a part of the problem. Again there is no way around that.

it's like to you the only way is the conventional one and it proved to end bad for muties, so sorry for not having a good grasp of your point.

Yes because making things worse for both parties by taking part of the cycle of hate is the solution........(sarcasm) It's the cycle of hate and agression that is the problem between mutants and humans. As long as it's there the situation will always exist because you're not working to fix the problem. You are the problem but sure if you want to stick you head in the sand and ignore that just so you can defend a character you like.

And no nothing has been proven badly because following the dream. If anything its the opposite

A: The future has always been unwritten. Marvel has never had a definitive one.

B: The entire time we got guys like like your "hero" or Magneto hindering the good efforts by feeding the cycle and undermining their effort to bring peace and understanding. No you wouldn't want to do the logical thing like stop making the problem worse. You rather incite both parties further down a divisive path and eventual war. Yup THAT sure is the solution. In stead of stopping an reverse course you want to run head first into it.

On the other hand we HAVE and were given an example of what happens without the dream.

You act like those that are following the dream are pacifists who don't take action when needed. Just ignore that they are on the front lines yet do it without Cyclops posturing and us vs them attitude that brings everyone further down the road to the very thing everyone has spent their life trying to stop. aka a war between humans and mutants.

If there is one problem with those following the dream if anything it's NOT taking down those on the mutant side who are hurting the cause of peace.

@dernman:

If you're part of the cycle then yes you are to blame for your part in it. There is no getting around it

Circle of hate is nothing but a tricky term to appoint sb with a downgrade. I mean, seriously. Ambiguous expression that mean nothing. I continued to use it since I addressed your point, but now when we're getting into details I can gladly remove it from my current conversational lexicon. Now, for the actual details.

It doesn't matter, What part of this are you not getting? If you're actively taking part a cycle of hate then you're doing bad. It existing with or without you does not absolve him of his actions and his part of the cycle. As long as he takes part he will be a part of the problem. Again there is no way around that.

You mean circle of action? Because I'd like to see the hate that is your only point.

So if action is the problem, what is the solution? Inertia?

Yes because making things worse for both parties by taking part of the cycle of hate is the solution........(sarcasm) It's the cycle of hate and agression that is the problem between mutants and humans. As long as it's there the situation will always exist because you're not working to fix the problem. You are the problem but sure if you want to stick you head in the sand and ignore that just so you can defend a character you like.

Fighting fire with fire... and you're saying it isn't historically approved sort of solving the cyclic conflicts?

Resolving the problem, moving towards the peace and coexistent, ended in genocide, in purifying, hell, even in a cosmic scheme recently.

And it still ain't worked.

And no nothing has been proven badly because following the dream. If anything its the opposite

There's a dream for dreamers, but when reality kicks in, you should embrace its rules or otherwise dreams won't save you there.

A: The future has always been unwritten. Marvel has never had a definitive one.

Ok.

B: The entire time we got guys like like your "hero" or Magneto hindering the good efforts by feeding the cycle and undermining their effort to bring peace and understanding. No you wouldn't want to do the logical thing like stop making the problem worse. You rather incite both parties further down a divisive path and eventual war. Yup THAT sure is the solution. In stead of stopping an reverse course you want to run head first into it.

There's a What if? I think, like with AoA as what if to what world will look like without Xavier. There's also a What if for world without Magneto. And it's pretty much exactly the same. You can blame on them whatever you want, comics still disagrees with you. Dream has never worked.

The solution? Beyond the fact that it will stop X-men sells? Well, just turn on the news. Brother nation fractions decapitate each other because their Islam is more rightful than the other ones', what understanding can you hope for with now DIFFERENT species?

Character-wise, the only thing that changed for him is starting to be proactive instead of reactive.

On the other hand we HAVE and were given an example of what happens without the dream.

I already addressed the opposite as well. Hell, I don't even think there's a single utopia alt. future.

You act like those that are following the dream are pacifists who don't take action when needed. Just ignore that they are on the front lines yet do it without Cyclops posturing and us vs them attitude that brings everyone further down the road to the very thing everyone has spent their life trying to stop. aka a war between humans and mutants.

What they do is just not enough apparently if everything remains so bad for mutants.

But I won't really defend recent Cyclops. He's not really the character I am expecting him to be. And even I still hope he will be one, I also won't go "all-canon" on you because to "blindly defend a character I like".

If there is one problem with those following the dream if anything it's NOT taking down those on the mutant side who are hurting the cause of peace.

They were pretty good at it actually, Wolverine crippled Magneto and made him disabled to defend Genosha from the upcoming slaughter.

16 f@cking millions slaughter.

That are your grand heroes of peace. And that's a simple canon.

Cyclops is a DOUCHE BAG period. He shouldn't even be part of anything. His mind is not right in place... he's going (went) ballistic. Let me bring one reason to the front of why Cyclops is a really good DOUCHE BAG, despite how FABULOUS people think he is.

Behind great man there is a great woman. Cyclops is not a strong man of character or action until his back is pressed against the wall. As far as heroes goes he is among the weakest of character these days. Going from golden boy to Mastermind Anti-Hero antics, Cyclop’s evolution has only sealed his fate as one of the douchiest characters in the Marvel universe. Unable to be alone, you’ll always find Cyclops chasing tale and creepiest of all it tends to be women who either resemble his dead girlfriend/wife or they actually happen to be his dead girlfriend/wife. Ewwwwwww. He's a crazy bastard.

Now, this is one reason so far, and there is more.

@adamtrmm:

Circle of hate is nothing but a tricky term to appoint sb with a downgrade. I mean, seriously. Ambiguous expression that mean nothing. I continued to use it since I addressed your point, but now when we're getting into details I can gladly remove it from my current conversational lexicon. Now, for the actual details.

Your excuses and denial are to support a character you like are getting sad at this point. Cause and effect boyo. Only a child who's too immature and incapable of owning up to the fact their choices having consequences would truthfully think that. Try come back when you've gotten a little bitolder understand certain concepts like cycle of hate. No joke it's legit sad if you believe that nonsense you just spouted out.

You mean circle of action? Because I'd like to see the hate that is your only point.

So if action is the problem, what is the solution? Inertia?

Dude this isn't rocket science. As long as someone is perpetuating a problem then is he is part of that problem and not the solution. The problem between the humans and mutants is a cycle that is being driven by hate and fear from both sides. If you're taking part in that cycle then you're part of the problem. If you don't break the cycle then the problems between mutants/humans will continue to be there and their will be no piece. You keep feeding the problem it will grow to big and blow up everything blows up in everyone face. In this case you get those dark futures of wars between mutants and humans which the X-Men spent their lives trying to prevent.

Fighting fire with fire... and you're saying it isn't historically approved sort of solving the cyclic conflicts?

Right because it's working so well for the US. It's working so well for all the middle eastern groups at each others throats. It sure solved those problems in Africa. Yes lets fight racism with more racism. That makes sense. Lets hate and make this guy over here fear us because the logical response is for them love hugs and kisses..

Resolving the problem, moving towards the peace and coexistent, ended in genocide, in purifying, hell, even in a cosmic scheme recently.

And it still ain't worked.

WHat are you smoking? WHen has there ever been peace and coexisting in either comics or real life? It's hate, and fear that caused those things. You're either trolling or a truly disturbed person. When you have peace and coexisting you have peace and coexisting. It takes the opposite of the equation to bring those things on. Further more peace and coexisting isn't something you get and are done. It's something you have to keep at. Something you're willing protect. There is a difference between those fighting for peace (those following the dream the X-Men) and those hindering it by taking part of the cycle. If you're not fighting for peace wtf are they doing? Keep fighting between each other? Even Cyclops claims to want peace. Maybe you want it just for one group and not the other. Maybe you want one side to take out the other. THen you need to take a long look at yourself an realize you're not a good guy in the situation.

There's a dream for dreamers, but when reality kicks in, you should embrace its rules or otherwise dreams won't save you there.

If you don't work for something better than you're not deserving of something better and nothing will get better, just might get worse. Who's reality and who's rules? Dreams have already saved many and that's a reality.

There's a What if? I think, like with AoA as what if to what world will look like without Xavier. There's also a What if for world without Magneto. And it's pretty much exactly the same. You can blame on them whatever you want, comics still disagrees with you. Dream has never worked.

Dream has never failed. Only the people did. A dream can live on in others. Again fighting for a dream isn't the end result it's something you have to continuously strive for. Comics don't disagree because the dream is neither an end result nor not guarantee at achievement, it's a chance to work for something better unlike becoming part of the problem. Don't confuse a dream with delusion. Example: Town A has a dream to gain enough people to grow and become a city and remain a part of state A. Along their way many things they have to achieve, many challenges they have to meet. THey have choices to make in getting those people there. Make the right ones they get what they achieve their dream. Make the wrong ones they don't. Making the wrong ones doesn't mean the dream was a failure or wasn't doable. It just means they messed up along the way. It's a chance to overcome the problem unlike becoming one of those problems that stood in the way of Town A remaining a part of State A. Also lets be honest the real reason the ream will never work out in comics is because they want to keep making X-Men comics and protect the status quo.

Beyond the fact that it will stop X-men sells?

Exactly my point above. That is the outside of the story reason for why the dream will never work out. Which is why making Cyclops part of the problem just adds more good reason for why it won't work out in story. That doesn't take away from my position it just reenforces it.

Well, just turn on the news. Brother nation fractions decapitate each other because their Islam is more rightful than the other ones', what understanding can you hope for with now DIFFERENT species?

Yes and they are just creating more hate and more enemies which further perpetuates the growing cycle of hate and violence in the world. At this point you're just arguing my point for me. Do you imagine a dream is suppose to be easy? That you don't have to work for it? You just going to give up and become part of the problem. You're confusing yourself again. Working towards peace doesn't mean doing nothing or not standing up for yourself. It does mean you try your best not to become part of the problem that is the cycle.

Character-wise, the only thing that changed for him is starting to be proactive instead of reactive.

Not true at all. You're minimizing the growth of the character. It ignores his developments and the position he has set himself in. I said it before an I'll say it again. I may not agree with the new Cyclops but over the years he's had one of the greatest long term natural evolutions of a character in mainstream comics. Also you're still not getting that there is a difference in being proactive to make things better and taking part of the cycle that plagues the human/mutant situation.

I already addressed the opposite as well. Hell, I don't even think there's a single utopia alt. future.

and I already addressed why.

What they do is just not enough apparently if everything remains so bad for mutants.

You mean making the world a better place isn't easy, that they are not perfect, that there is more they can do, that Marvel Comics doesn't make things happens so they can remain in conflict and a bad situation so they can sell comics? SHOCKING Come on man. As a character the solution isn't to increase the problem you've been fighting all your life and still claim too. As a reader you have to know that Marvel isn't going to let things get all better no matter if they follow the correct path.

But I won't really defend recent Cyclops. He's not really the character I am expecting him to be. And even I still hope he will be one, I also won't go "all-canon" on you because to "blindly defend a character I like".

You've been doing nothing but defend him.

They were pretty good at it actually, Wolverine crippled Magneto and made him disabled to defend Genosha from the upcoming slaughter.

and yet if they stopped him and those like him sooner from exasperating the mutant/human relation problem over the many years they might never have gotten to that point. Can't say a situation that is too little too late as doing good.

16 f@cking millions slaughter.

I wonder why. Oh right it was their response to certain mutant actions. Those humans chose to take part in that pesky cycle of hate and fear I keep talking about.

That are your grand heroes of peace. And that's a simple canon.

Who have I claimed to be a hero? Wolverine no . I've always said Wolverine wasn't a hero. Humans I've always claimed a good portion where part of the cycle.

Again you're not contradicting me, you're only strengthening what I'm saying about the cycle of hate an fear. At this point I should sit back and let you do the talking for me.

Which brings us back to your original comment

Cycle of hate exists with or without Cyclops.

Irrelevant because he's still part of it.

AXIS IS GOING TO BE THE RISE OF CYCLOPS!!!!

Why I have a feeling THIS sound familiar? Sound like CUTTER thread.

Ugh, why do we need another X-Men/Avengers team up book?

@mn_logan said:

Ugh, why do we need another X-Men/Avengers team up book?

You don't believe in Xavier's dream???

@teerack: It's got nothing to do with his dream, I'm just not too sure why any mutant would want to ally themselves with the same group of people who tried to strong-arm them into exctincion like two years ago. But I guess logic doesn't apply when this is just Marvel putting the Avengers with the X-Men to try to get people to buy Avengers books, because AvX was such a fan favorite. But in Marvel's eyes Captain America and the Holy Avengers can do no wrong.

@koays said:

Them?

I hope that's Storm's new look, because her current look with the mohawk mop head and the tuxedo-ish costume just don't work for me. I think it's Medusa, though, based on hair length and costume design, despite the coloring.

I think it will be:

1. Deadpool
2. Carnage
3. Sabretooth
4. Loki
5. Luke Cage
6. Medusa
7. Hobgoblin